Kinni's E-bike questions and stuffs

[jkbrigman]

Ive never liked automatic anything but have used those strippers and find them pretty good. I have a very nice pair of wire strippers I use to wire stereo systems, dont use the old "bite and pull" method.

btw I never noticed the polarity thing on those AC wires. Learn something new every day. Monster Cables are designed to handle up to 10000 watts I believe? although its very flexible so I really dont trust it. Think I'll research some better heat resistant 12g wires.

I braid all my wires. Since my background is really in 60-70's car wiring, boat wiring and rock climbing Im very used to creating harnesses and knots (but only 12v with boats sometimes going parallel on a '1-both-2-off' switch), i solder a lot, and get the DC thing. never had to deal much with 24v systems in vehicles except for snowcats, which i only drove, not worked on. still i want minimal resistace from a connection so if i could use gold wire, solder and connectors Id be happy but................

btw explain "wicking" more on the post...its fun to watch and makes a so-so connection into something to celebrate. I could hang my bike from that 3 to 1 connection.

need a triangle bag before i learn to sew and make my own and start my own business.

Goodbye Davy Jones, I loved ya.

Kinni - you're "practically at home" here on E-S. Welcome!

Ya know, I had a bunch more written about "wicking" and decided to not put it out there - I didn't think anyone would give a flip.

re: Davy - he was cool man, all the way to the end.

[dogman]

Re the CA question, A dp CA can limit amps, but it's not a bms. I think you can program a lvc into it as well, but again, it's not a bms. A bms will monitor each cell group, while a controller or CA lvc only monitors whole pack voltage.

If you are familiar with your packs, and know damn well they are well matched, then just watching the total pack voltage on the CA can be adequate. That's what I do, and get by fine. I just stop early enough to not have a cell below 3.65, typicaly I stop with all cells not below 3.8v. Now if I should have a cell drop below 3.5v when all the rest are at 3.8, that packs going straight to the recycle pile anyway. So I don't feel so much need to have a bms. I simply check all my packs about every 10 cycles with a cellog 8, and balance those that actually need it. So far, I've not had any pack go bad in just 10 cycles, unless I just screwed up royal like having a paralell connection come undone. If something like that happens the overdicharged pack is obvious, it's the one scorching your hand when you touch it.

Typically I notice a pack needing balancing because it's .1v off on one cell every time I check. That pack gets marked for watching, and when it gets more and more unbalanced, I start checking that pack more often. Eventually I know it's time to junk it.

If you plan on discharging your packs deeper each ride, then of course you need a bms, or at the least a cell level voltage display.

[Kinni420]

heres a pic of the wiring stand i got for 2 bux.


RAWRRRR!!!!

so what about this charger

http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page= ... ducts_id=1

with this power supply

http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0349703

saves me over 80 bux, any reason I shouldnt use a computer power supply?

[dogman]

Good price. Just make sure the ps outputs the same voltage the charger likes. The meanwells got popular because of better reliablility. My first ps was a clone of a meanwell, and it went poof. So this really cheap deal could do the same thing. Only twenty bucks or so to find out though.

[Kinni420]

this should do fine then, 1 year warranty, and Ive never heard of a computer power supply going bad when new..... and the 120mm fan helps . 18 bux plus tax and a $2.25 bus ride. and a few bucks for re-wiring harness.

Kit should be here tomorrow, i hope. wait till you see what I have to do to get this thing roadworthy lol. Will post a long pic thread.

[shock]

Keep in mind if your using ATX power supply it needs to be modded (just ground the green wire)

But also keep in mind that 500w is overall, as ATX has 3 rails, 12v, 5v, and 3.3v. In this particular supply the 12v rail is 25 amps, so really you can only use 300w or power. and depending on the supply they tend to get unstable if you have the 12v rail loaded up and the 5v rail open..

[jkbrigman]

heres a pic of the wiring stand i got for 2 bux.
RAWRRRR!!!!

so what about this charger
http://epbuddy.com/index.php?main_page= ... ducts_id=1

with this power supply
http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0349703

saves me over 80 bux, any reason I shouldnt use a computer power supply?

Kinni - man, I dig the wiring stand. Interesting that the "optimal" shape is of a little dude...with a "headlight" heh heh.

I love my 106b charger. I'm happy with the quality and features. I have that Diablotek power supply. It's a rock, and yes, it ought to work OK. My power supply feeding my 106b is a simple 15v 10A switching power supply. 150W of cool, clean power. It's worked like a champ to charge up to 3 bricks at a time. Plenty fast enough for what I need.

I have to give props to dogman here - he was able to give me good perspective on power supplies and charging, and that you don't need 1000 watts to do a good job charging up the bricks. Money is always tight, so I want to buy the least pricey but best quality I can get. I'm extremely happy with what I got, which is pretty darn close to what you are getting.

I didn't buy from epbuddy - I'm thinking I'll be buying stuff from those folks sometime soon. Seems like shipping would be fast and cheap?

JKB

[Kinni420]

ok stupid question time.

(not that I would do this mind you) if I mix amperages on batteries say like this:

2x 6s1p 5000 mAh
1x 6s1p 4500 mAh

I would think it would actually be the average of all the amps? so ((5000*2)+4500)/3=4833.3333?
correct?

JKB - just finished mucking around in the EP buddy site.

i fake ordered a iCharger 106B+ (canceled it before check out).

shipping cost: US Postal Service First Class Mail - via air, NO tracking information available (Shipping to US (1.80lb(s))) $7.49
US Postal Service Priority Mail - Faster than First Class Mail, tracking information available (Shipping to US (1.80lb(s))) $7.99

Considering they ship from Columbus, Ohio, I would assume 2-3 days max on a Priority Shipping order.

Nice low cost and quick. Will be purchasing stuff from here.

BTW just found this link to making a computer power supply work for charging. This gets around the problem of getting the fan to work and loading up the 5v rail.

http://www.nmia.com/~tandberg/LinkedPag ... ATX_03.htm

I have a 375w Im going to do this with later today . 12v rail pumps out 18A for 216w. I plan to get a larger one from the local computer store (600w supply, 12v 40A for 480w) for $27.99.

[dogman]

Re the shipping choose one you won't have to sign for, so the mailman can just leave it. That's a pain with EMS from china when ordering from HK.

On the amphours. Not sure if you mean paralell or series connections. Paralell, youd have 14.5 ah. Series you'd hae 4.5 ah, the capacity of the smallest battery in the series string.

[Kinni420]

yup parallel. makes sense.

OH NOES IM A NERD!

[jkbrigman]

Kinni - do you have any spare pocket protectors? Mine fell into the flux capacitor and melted, so I need a new one. i figured you had a few spares around your NERD workbench?

Dang you for being smarter than me and ordering from epbuddy. I wish I had. Took my balance charger two weeks to get here.

Hey man, try out the power supply you already have, see how it works out. You might be happy enough with it to not order a new PS. I was afraid my little 150W would suck wind, but it works like a champ to balance charge 3 6S bricks at 6A.

Keep us posted man. You're making progress!!!

JKB

[dogman]

You're only a real nerd if you sucessfully assemble your interferociter kit, and get to go on the road trip to the planet with the crab men.

[Kinni420]

just found a guy in my town who sells LiFePo4 battery packs lol...heres a link

http://ironedison.com/renewable-energy-batteries

spent the morning watching a bunch of Dogman's videos on you-tube lol. They have trees in Arizona? Do they actually have people in Arizona? In all those videos I may have seen 5 or 6 total cars actually moving.

what was your battery set up on that 19 mile climb. you said 36v 30 Ah. SLA?

Death race lol. You had the power over them, but your cornering sux old man

I know ive asked this before, but what kind of range am I looking at at 18s2p with that 2810 dog? consider street 5 to -5% grades. Also I noticed you doing your little ditch thing for shallow discharges of the lipos. Thats something new to me. what kind of break in should I be considering?

[dogman]

Actually New Mexico where I live. The DR is in Tucson AZ. Come ride that track someday with a 4000w front motor. Bet you lay it down too. The fast guys do corner better than me for sure. It would have helped if the bike had brakes too. Rim brakes when you are going 45 mph don't cut it. But I can corner good enough. Ever gravity raced ten miles of 10% grade in the rain on a road bike? I have. We were extreme when the guys who thought of the x games were still sperm. I will admit though, that track will kick your ass, even if you are pretty good. Most riders take those corners at less than 20 mph. I was riding with the fast guys.

You should be able to get about 10-20 miles out of 18s 10 ah. About 540 wh total, but "normal" use would have about 400 or so before you ought to stop. Whether you get 10 miles or 20 depends on the speed you ride.

The long climb was done on my commuter. It has a 2807 9 continent front motor, 48v 20 amp controller. The first part of the ride, to just before the town of Pinos Altos was done on 12s, 44v lipo pack. Just before the steepest part, (10%) that ran out, and I switched to a 48v 15 ah pingbattery. The whole ride was happening in long distance mode, riding slower than the bikes top speed by quite a bit. That was a fun day in the mountains, the last long ride I took before illness took me out last summer.

[Kinni420]

CHEATER! anyhow, I just spent the %#^&ing morning riding into a 25 mph wind to go get new forks for my e-ride and found out the %#^&ing bike shop was closed on sundays even though they said open 10-5 on sun on their website. I DEMAND A DISCOUNT!!!!! Patrick's kit coming tomorrow, and i cant even %#^&ing ride it! Guess Im going back to the bike shop after work to drop 150 for new front end.

havent tested the new power supply yet but bet it works fine. need to get some connectors to fit the female banana plug ends and drill out some holes in the side of the casing. took about an hour to do so far but i was extra careful and had some minor spacing issues in this Dell 375w. Theres a big coil thingy attached to the top of the casing getting in the way. heres a quick pic of it at 90% completion.



wheres the break in info dog???

[Kinni420]

kit came in the mail today. rear wheel is barely put together and needs serious truing and dishing. every spoke is very loose but all in all Im happy as a clam in mud. pics incoming. Had to buy forks today for the bike so I cant even ride it till at least wed night since they are on order. no batteries anyways. also no rim strip, tube or tire. Thats fine Id rather build my own.

I fired up the 218 watt PC converted power supply today. Worked like a charm @ 12.17v WOOT! 80 bucks saved. basicly paid for my forks.

[jkbrigman]

kit came in the mail today. rear wheel is barely put together and needs serious truing and dishing. every spoke is very loose but all in all Im happy as a clam in mud. pics incoming. Had to buy forks today for the bike so I cant even ride it till at least wed night since they are on order. no batteries anyways. also no rim strip, tube or tire. Thats fine Id rather build my own.

I fired up the 218 watt PC converted power supply today. Worked like a charm @ 12.17v WOOT! 80 bucks saved. basicly paid for my forks.

Dude: rock on with the PC power supply. It should do just fine behind a balancing charger.

Hey - my LBS didn't dish my 26" motor wheel at all - in fact, they took all the dish OUT of it - I had to adjust brakes and fender about 1/4" to the left side. I wondered a little while if I should go back and have 'em move things a little bit, but after looking closely at the wheel, by golly, it looks like it ought to be just like it ended up: no dish.

Can anyone reading this thread comment? Should a DD rear motor wheel with freewheel have any dish in it, or not?

Thanks;
JKB

[dogman]

Current 9 continent motors should need no dish. Can't comment on others.

[jkbrigman]

Current 9 continent motors should need no dish. Can't comment on others.

Yay! Thank you...I was worried about this. The LBS sure lined the rim up with the motor. It's beautiful, but everything on my bike had to go to the left a tiny bit.

I'm wondering if the wheel will feel different. Knowing what I know now, I'd never have tested with it before getting it trued.

JKB

[jkbrigman]

Kinni - when will you be able to get your wheel trued?

[Kinni420]

spent some time truing the wheel tonight, got it ride-able enough but without a stand I cant really get it perfect. Picking up forks tomorrow from bike shop and will be able to at least get the bike wired up.

I plugged in everything as a test and I have two wires I cant figure out what to do with. The two pin connector for "Fwd/Rev" and the 4 pin connector for "E-Brake Regen". Just leave them blank and tape em off?

RC shop down the street from here had the Anderson connectors Ive been looking for! woot. Building the discharge harness for the 12v 33 AH (25 lbs) SLA test battery Ill be using for the first few days. LOL whopping 4 mph for 30 miles haha.

[jkbrigman]

spent some time truing the wheel tonight, got it ride-able enough but without a stand I cant really get it perfect. Picking up forks tomorrow from bike shop and will be able to at least get the bike wired up.

I plugged in everything as a test and I have two wires I cant figure out what to do with. The two pin connector for "Fwd/Rev" and the 4 pin connector for "E-Brake Regen". Just leave them blank and tape em off?

RC shop down the street from here had the Anderson connectors Ive been looking for! woot. Building the discharge harness for the 12v 33 AH (25 lbs) SLA test battery Ill be using for the first few days. LOL whopping 4 mph for 30 miles haha.

Yeah, I didn't use those two on my system. I don't plan to use fwd/rev and regen I'll hook up when I've figured out a way to do it on my crowded handlebars...

Hey, even 4mph is something! Actually, I'm betting you'll make 12mph at least...a decent pedaling speed.

JKB

[Kinni420]

theres a kit you can get that clamps to your bars and creates another bar to mount stuff on for us CA people. Currently running a bell, headlight and reflector. not much room left. Heres an example:

http://www.amazon.com/Minoura-Spacegrip ... d_sbs_sg_5

Questions about my CA. settings for the motor? I haven't even seen it turned on yet but some of those settings seem a little out of my league. everything but wheel size lol, thats easy.

range mode: Low
averaging: ?
SetRshunt: 2.39 mOhm (this is the resistance written on the contoller)
ZeroAmps: ?
Volts Sense: ?
Set#Poles: 28?
PS Gain: default
IntSGain: default
IntAGain: Default
IntVGain: default
ITermMax: Default
ITermMin: default
Max Throttle: default
Set Ratio: default
Serial Output: default
SetTotDist,SetTotAhrs,SetTotCyc : meh...dont need that atm
Aux Voltage Function: off
Aux Threshold: default
Vshutdown: default

[kold kanuck]

You're only a real nerd if you sucessfully assemble your interferociter kit, and get to go on the road trip to the planet with the crab men.

Mystery science reference, nicely done. kinni keep up with the questions because i too am learning more and understanding better from the advice you are being given.

[jkbrigman]

Questions about my CA. settings for the motor? I haven't even seen it turned on yet but some of those settings seem a little out of my league. everything but wheel size lol, thats easy.

range mode: Low
averaging: ?
SetRshunt: 2.39 mOhm (this is the resistance written on the contoller)
ZeroAmps: ?
Volts Sense: ?
Set#Poles: 28?
PS Gain: default
IntSGain: default
IntAGain: Default
IntVGain: default
ITermMax: Default
ITermMin: default
Max Throttle: default
Set Ratio: default
Serial Output: default
SetTotDist,SetTotAhrs,SetTotCyc : meh...dont need that atm
Aux Voltage Function: off
Aux Threshold: default
Vshutdown: default

Patrick had set the CA parameters to match the motor - that's where the "28 poles" came from - the 9C motors are unique in the number of hall sensors they have.