My First public Build

[FastDemise]

So no real added benefit of going to 18s if keeping the speed limited to 30mph? Was just wondering if the increased voltage made things a little bit more efficient to warrant going higher in voltage.


A side note:
My hypersion charger is saying that my 18650 12s pack has 78mohm while 12s lipo is around 10mohm. I'm surprised it wasn't higher with how much solder and individuals connections are in the 18650 packs.

[FastDemise]

Well from the smell of it my power supply which is supposed to be 13.8V 20A output smells like roasting electronics with just a 10A load on it from the hyperion charger. Guess I'm going to computer power supplies. I really need to post pictures of my bike now since it's running and have put 60 miles on it already. ^_^

[wesnewell]

So no real added benefit of going to 18s if keeping the speed limited to 30mph? Was just wondering if the increased voltage made things a little bit more efficient to warrant going higher in voltage.

Sure there's a couple of benefits in increasing voltage. First, the added cells will give your pack more range, and second, the added voltage will increase acceleration.

[FastDemise]

Well I decided to stick with 12s for the time being. Logically I have a 1420i hyperion charger so 12s would require no changing of wiring from bike to charger. I have 6 6s lipos so I wired each pair in series then made a harness to wire each pair in parallel. Then made a pair of balance leads that parallel the first set of lipo then the 2nd set so at the cell level they are parallel as well. This also enabled me to simply move battery from bike and directly to charger without changing or touching any of the wire setup. I'm quite happy with that.



I did KFF a few days ago. Stupid me before I built the pack into one big one was charging each 6s on a parallel board and got ahead of myself and plugged all the batteries in the board but did not plug in the charging plugs first so as soon as I grabbed it *zap* haha It's got nothing on jumping cables sparking. It's so much crisper and sharp.

Also got 1 of my Meanwell SP-320-24 PS hooked up and just testing it's output on a 6s 18650 pack. Putting out 257W so that's within it's 87% efficiency range. If I can get my hands on Zephyr's BMS and charge board I should be able to do away with the hyperion and simply hooked up both my meanwells in series and charge when needed. The goal there is to be able to make the 20mile trip all the way to college campus and charge there instead of making a shorter 8 mile trip to a different campus then taking the shuttle.

For the bike I just changed the handle bars and finally got a top cap off one of my other parts bikes and now finally have a front shock that doesn't wobble. For the longest to ensure proper compression on the headset I was using a handlebar extension to apply the compression then just torqued down on the stem. Now that I just simply added a cap to keep the compression it's silky smooth operation. Pretty dumb of me to ride this long before learning about that.

Bike as it sits now.


Using old blackburn x6 lights. Put new batteries in and installed 250lumen cree LEDs

[BATFINK]

Nice build, I like that little front rack too. Did it mount on your brake mount? You should replace the colored cable ties with black and possibly paint the motor black and you would have a really stealthy bike there. Treat yourself to a cycle analyst to monitor your battery great stuff

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[FastDemise]

Nice build, I like that little front rack too. Did it mount on your brake mount? You should replace the colored cable ties with black and possibly paint the motor black and you would have a really stealthy bike there. Treat yourself to a cycle analyst to monitor your battery great stuff

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My thoughts exactly! The front rack was something off Ebay I got thinking it would have some use....so far I'm drawing a blank. It is mounted on the brake mount same as the mud flap. My idea of a stealth look would be using one of the geared hub motors due to size. I can not see the 5303 ever being hidden unless I'm using some really large panniers. Sometime this week I'll get the rest of the silver bits in black.

[BATFINK]

I'm using a front rack that mounts to my forks an going to use it to hold my battery in a plastic battery box. Have you thought about moving your battery bag onto it for better balance and also freeing up your larger rear rack for groceries

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[FastDemise]

I'd love my topeak bag free for other goodies but was worried about the battery being attached to the front shock without any dampening. My battery is already wrapped in ups envelope bubble wrap stuff but I can give it a try with the velcro I have and perhaps a bungee net for just in case. It is worth giving it a serious look. What brand of rack is that?

Update: Got my SP-320-24 Meanwells working together in parallel finally. I'm liking the bubble wrap

[FastDemise]

Not sure if I'm being too picky or have a good reason to wonder about the health of each 6s pack.

*Update*
After Using a 2Ohm resistor 4.19v-3.5v I'm getting:
#1 - 4774mAh
#2 - 4800mAh
#6 - 4740mAh

#3 - 4548mAh #1 Weak
#4 - 4576mAh #6 Weak
#5 - 4510mAh (suspected bad cell due to low capacity)

Seems half my packs are bad. Seems #4 didn't show any signs of bad cell the first time I discharged it but it clearly shows up now. So I got a odd number of good cells. 18s possible with 2P with the LVC ~3.7 to keep the cells happy? I can repair the 2 with known bad cells since I got lucky and it's the outer cells that are bad.

Seems I can get a good 18s1p for quick runs to the store and 12s2p once I repair a pack for riding to school. What a drag to find out during a sunny day.

[shock]

Nice build, I like the look. I've got a 6 FET lyen and was wondering about its capability using larger DD hubs. Looks like you've been successful.

With Lipo, it seems the brick closest to the + discharge lead always drains more, especially after 15 or 20 cycles. My solution is rotating the 6cell banks, and/or rotate the bricks every once and awhile, so your not always pulling most from the same pack.

Keep up the good work!

[FastDemise]

I did not know of the issue of the + battery seeing more load. Right now I'm just trying to fond out which one of my parallel JST plugs is bad that's tricking my charger into unbalancing the packs. One side gets to 7mV and the other 32mV but switching parallel plugs I get the unbalanced side gets to 7mV.
I've been very successful in running the motor on 12s 30A and perhaps due to the cooler weather we are having here in the north west, the 30MPH speed I typically maintain on the roads, and the forward placement of the controller I have no issues with heat. Though I was running 1.8kW thru a modified GM controller stored enclosed in a frog pack without heating issues. So I can assume that at least 2kW with Lyens controller shouldn't be far fetched with good placement and descent wind speeds(or road speed) or tame it down to 1kW easily and clean up the bike look and store the controller and wires inside a frog pack.

I've hard wired 2 pairs in 12s so 12s2p. With my bad luck on HobbyKing 6s packs I just need 1 more good pack to try 18s2p and see if I am approaching the limits of the 6fet controller. I'm not sure of anyone pushing the small 6fets. My 5303 is probably bored with the little power I'm putting through it. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't just get a small MAC or the like since I am only dealing with a couple kW which has been tested again and again as a safe level for the geared motors. I understand I will not have regen but the tremendous weight savings from a 5303 to a MAC(or similar geared) is tempting.

On another note I finally crashed. Just had to glance a wet spot on the trail I was on during a sunny day and I wipped out while giving the right a way to another biker. I think the handlebar is a bit worse for wear but nothing that needs any fixing. Sadly I lost the cateye computer. The computer had been keeping track of every electric mile I had ever done to date. Pretty sad to loose the data. I was starting to get pretty proud of my new bike already passing 150miles when my last year bike only had 250 miles over the entire last year. I was sure to surpass it easily half way through this Spring Term.

Apologies for such a long winded post. haha If you see no pictures you will most likely just read this. Have fun riding and never underestimate the perks of having a well secured backpack when your ejected from your bike and sliding on your back to a stop. ^_^

[wesnewell]

I assume you know that if you are charging your pack as 12s that you have to plug the high side balance plug into the B port and the low side into the A port for the balancer to work properly.

[FastDemise]

Balance leads closest to the main - gets A and the side closest to the main + gets B?

[wesnewell]

Balance leads closest to the main - gets A and the side closest to the main + gets B?

Yes. Put another way, when you connect them for a 12s pack, you are left with the red + connector on one end and the black - connector on the other end to connect to the charge port. The pack with the red connector is the high side and the balance leads from it should go to port B, and the low (- black) to port A.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I76y8eizm0

[FastDemise]

I used a black sharpie and marked on the Hyperion (B side) and on my battery (+ side) balance leads by chance but last few charges I was just grabbing balance leads and paying no attention to it. Seems to do much better. Directly connected from battery to charger I can get 3mV in balance and with the parallel plugs I only get 7mV. Thanks for clearing my mistake up.

[FastDemise]

Well got my motor apart a second time so I can paint it black to match the frame. Good thing I did as I noticed the phase wires inside the motor were being rubbed through. One wire was already worn to the wires while a 2nd was very close. Whew, dodged a bullet on that one. Redid wires on motor to ensure no future problems and even repacked the bearings with fresh grease. Now time to clean up and get to paint.

[FastDemise]

What was going to soon be a bad day for me had I not noticed it.


Also went for a ride in the beautiful weather I am having here and not 10ft from my driveway my rear tire explodes. It appears I wasn't putting enough air in the back to compensate for the heavy x5303 motor, my ass, and 12s3p in the bag. The tire got a severe case of the pinch and cut thru the tire and the tube. Tire is useless and the tube by the grace of God decided to die in front of my house and not while I was doing 30MPH heading home the other day. Just purchased 2 replacement tubes already filled with slime and are the extra thick. I'm growing very tired of removing my rear wheel.

A little surprise for me when I put the wheel back on.



Just seems like there isn't any 3M 420 on it at all. Just rust which concerns me. I globbed the crap out of it when I applied it on a clean surface prepped with liberal amount of acetone. Then applied more along the entire circumference. My next idea will be to take the dremel and grind grooves along the outside for the glue to better hold on to. Not quite sure what I can do differently next go around.

Just driving to REI to grab new tubes pained me. Over the past 2 weeks since the start of Spring term I've ridden every day and I'm spoiled now. I love biking and hate driving my Jeep. Something so confining about it now. Even though it's a SUV isn't just small feeling now. I love my ebike and will continue to strive to maintain it and improve.

Quick question!
I am only going as high as 2kW on my motor so would replacing the heavy x5303 motor with a lighter HT/HS motor be fine? I feel the heavy-duty x5303 motor is overkill and a waste to use on only ~1.5-2kW.

[MadRhino]

Yep, at 2Kw the H motor would give you better acceleration, and handling, because of the lighter weight.
The X5 though, is more quiet and durable.

[amberwolf]

I'm growing very tired of removing my rear wheel.

You could try putting two tubes in, adding an extra valve hole 180 degrees from the original. I can't yet vouch for how well it works because for me it is not helping, but I have not had time to take the wheel apart again to figure out why. I just did it a week ago, and already one tube is no longer taking air and the other has a bad leak, but none of the tubes I have is new, and most have patches on their patches.

[FastDemise]

I'm growing very tired of removing my rear wheel.

You could try putting two tubes in, adding an extra valve hole 180 degrees from the original. I can't yet vouch for how well it works because for me it is not helping, but I have not had time to take the wheel apart again to figure out why. I just did it a week ago, and already one tube is no longer taking air and the other has a bad leak, but none of the tubes I have is new, and most have patches on their patches.

I can't wrap my head around how you put 2 tubes in a tire without them twisting around each other when you get to the tube part. Wouldn't the twisting cause a weak point in the tube?? My patches I had were the first problem but I just got some quality ones that use rubber cement with the patch so I'm confident they will not leak.

Thanks for the input about different motor choices. I'm confident the x5303 is a tough motor. The darn thing weighs 30lbs and I relate it to a tank. Just gotta find a good used deal on a motor. Possible the 9c 2810 might work. It's sold pretty cheap from a member here and I understand that running it with 72V will give me ~30MPH and that I can live with.

In other news I've made the plunge for front disc. Some excessive shopping on pinkbike.com has got me Avid bb7 caliper, 203mm disc, disc comp and wheel. It's been only 2 weeks and my vbrakes are about 50% used up already. I find the regensetup on the Lyen controller lacking. Having the setting at 2 I've read I can possibly increase the regen voltage to improve the regen(braking) to a acceptable level. I'll keep on it and soon have a very capable bike.

[amberwolf]

I can't wrap my head around how you put 2 tubes in a tire without them twisting around each other when you get to the tube part. Wouldn't the twisting cause a weak point in the tube??

They're installed side by side, no twisting necessary.

Others have done this successfully before, even on regular bikes, so I'm just copying their work. But in my case, it's not workin' so hot.

This is the post in my CrazyBike2 thread about the install, but I don't have any pics of putting it in there, as I coudln't get any angles that showed anything useful. There is just a pic of the "twinnertube" wheel, inflated but not yet installed on the bike.
viewtopic.php?p=562728#p562728

[FastDemise]

They're installed side by side, no twisting necessary.

Others have done this successfully before, even on regular bikes, so I'm just copying their work. But in my case, it's not workin' so hot.

This is the post in my CrazyBike2 thread about the install, but I don't have any pics of putting it in there, as I coudln't get any angles that showed anything useful. There is just a pic of the "twinnertube" wheel, inflated but not yet installed on the bike.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 28#p562728

You think having smaller diameter < 2" tubes would work better than 2 larger tubes sized for 2.1 or greater? I'll consider it as a option if I get a flat on this tube. With MTB knobby tread and the slime packed ultra think tube I hope I don't see any flats anytime soon not including something puncturing my tire.

[MadRhino]

When you have done a good dropout job, you don't have any problem anymore servicing the rear wheel. Then you will want some other motors, to swap the rear wheel for servicing or just according to the ride planned. !0 minutes is all I need to swap the hub motor wheel and controller on my bikes.

About flats, you have 2 choices: Either you spend time and various means to try making flat proof, or you spend money to make a good ride. A fresh fat tire and DH tube don't go flat unless improperly inflated, or a true bad luck. I speed in the mountain trails without any puncture protection, yet I never let a tire wear enough to become fragile.

[FastDemise]

I'm gonna have to get over my fear of mounting the batteries in the frame as I just scored a great deal on a Rocky Mountain Instinct frame 20.5". So that makes me have 1 electric working bike and 3 other full suspension frame bikes that are just parts and dreams.....oops forgot my extra Giant hardtail frame. I really need to clear out my bike stock.

[FastDemise]

Funny enough I've made a new friend through craigslist where I bought most my bike stuff from and today showed him the light of electric bikes. Talk about a smile from ear to ear when he was done just riding around the block. Just reprogrammed the lyen controller. Not sure if I'm pushing it too far or I still have some headroom for power. But at 35MPH got my first compliment from a guy in his car. Feels good

Here are my improved settings. I used 12s3p 20C Turnigy Lipo for a 15mile round trip full throttle every chance I got doing ~35MPH


15.8mi (googlemaps)
13.763Ah
628Wh
39.7Wh/Mile I don't think that's too bad considering I'm 6'3" guessing 240ish lbs

Controller is just warm and now the DD casing is starting to feel warm. Just got a nice Marcozzi front shock I'll use for a while with a Avid 160 disc and Avid Juicy 5 brakes. Should be a very nice improvement over my quickly wearing out V-brakes.