Cowards Coming Too Close? Color 'em Yellow.

[MadRhino]

Confrontation never leads to anything good. We have the advantage of mobility and speed in traffic, better steer away from trouble and let them cagers yell at each other. If you act stupid, you will soon meet someone acting stupid and a half.

[dogman]

Again, I don't know the exact law in this locality, but in my state thier actions would be illegal unless they had a parade permit. In NM, you must not take the lane unless there is no other option, and riding 2 abreast taking the lane IS illegal, except for one bike overtaking the other.

At christmas, I did a similar ride to the one in the vid, but with about 300 bikes. The big difference was our parade permit included police escort. So our ride got to even ignore stop signs and signals.

Big attidudinal difference. One ride promoted bikes, while another just causes more friction. We also do mass visibility rides here, which are done single file, legaly riding and promoting our actual legal road rights, not our imaginary ones.

[Rassy]

I've just been reading this thread, and I can't believe no one on this forum (besides me) seems to object to MattyCiii's scattering of roofing nails. Why would you even discuss issues with an idiot like that? His highly illegal actions not only give all bikers a bad name, make car drivers even more antagonistic, and randomly cause problems for all road users, two wheels or four wheels.

MattyCiii bragged:

So I ride with my video, my obnoxious lights, and a pocketful of roofing nails (though sometimes my pocket is empty when I arrive home).

[MadRhino]

...I can't believe no one on this forum (besides me) seems to object to MattyCiii's scattering of roofing nails.

Lots of stupid things to do in this thread, this one is not worth a discussion.
As I said:

...If you act stupid, you will soon meet someone acting stupid and a half.

[REdiculous]

I was gonna mention the guy grabbing the keys - that's what I saw as well. I highly doubt it's legal to snatch someone's keys like that, but it was a smart thing to do. After an incident like that most people would be 'high' and unfit to drive for 5-15 minutes. Taking the keys keeps the driver from accidentally, or intentionally, doing more harm.

In NM, you must not take the lane unless there is no other option, and riding 2 abreast taking the lane IS illegal, except for one bike overtaking the other.

Where I live you can take the lane when it's safe(r) to do so. Riding 2 abreast may be illegal, I'd have to look it up, but no cop is going to care as long as you're riding safely.

[Lessss]

@ Dauntless

I don't get on roads where any fool should be able to tell a bike doesn't belong there

There is a difference between a car merging into your lane a distance in front of you vs the space where you are unsafely nearly killing you.

If you are caught in traffic you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel - sidewalk, bike lane, other car lanes. I can't count the number of times I've seen cars deliberately pull right on a straight road when stopped in traffic to block the bike lane. Try waiting in your lane for a space to FULLY open up allowing you to turn instead of illegally inching across the bike path and sidewalk.

Cop above the law vid: The cop was indeed wrong to stop without first flashing lights, he also failed to look in the mirror before opening the door. The scooter then mounted the sidewalk to make way to designated scooter parking avoiding the ONE WAY STREET, you will notice the multiple red markings on the walkway pavement marking off the pathway to the scooter parking.

Pigs gone wild. It was a critical mass drive aka a protest - Also not they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, they have every right to take the lane. Notice how when the cops pull forward to pick on the guy with the camera there is no traffic held up behind them, he had also gone to the bike lane at that point, also note how they fail to ID the person they want to stop as everyone is on a bike, then they violate the rights of the people on the sidewalk threatening them with loitering, then violated the guys right to videotape the encounter.

In the Bus video in the roundabout the bus is in the lane to go straight not go into the roundabout, the bus merged into the cyclist(bus in the wrong). Cyclists should be treated like a car while in a lane. Cyclist shouldn't have tapped on the wiper, bus w=as getting close again cyclist swerved towards bus as a message he was too close again bus driver responded with attempted murder.


In the motor cycle between two cars. What is not shown is the car passing the motorcycle at car length 1 to merge the lane at car length 0 pinching the motorcycle between two cars, it picks up with motor cycle making his way out of the pinch to get in front of the car and the women yelling obscenities at him in response to him giving her a piece of his mind before moving past her window, to which he responds to with a fender kick.

Re the internal monologue vid: didn't watch as it's one of those proselytizing religious vids.

[GrayKard]

I've just been reading this thread, and I can't believe no one on this forum (besides me) seems to object to MattyCiii's scattering of roofing nails. Why would you even discuss issues with an idiot like that? His highly illegal actions not only give all bikers a bad name, make car drivers even more antagonistic, and randomly cause problems for all road users, two wheels or four wheels.

MattyCiii bragged:

So I ride with my video, my obnoxious lights, and a pocketful of roofing nails (though sometimes my pocket is empty when I arrive home).

He's mentioned it already a couple of times in other threads. Probably shouldn't invite him on a group ride.

Gary

[DrkAngel]

I've just been reading this thread, and I can't believe no one on this forum (besides me) seems to object to MattyCiii's scattering of roofing nails. Why would you even discuss issues with an idiot like that? His highly illegal actions not only give all bikers a bad name, make car drivers even more antagonistic, and randomly cause problems for all road users, two wheels or four wheels.

MattyCiii bragged:

So I ride with my video, my obnoxious lights, and a pocketful of roofing nails (though sometimes my pocket is empty when I arrive home).

He's mentioned it already a couple of times in other threads. Probably shouldn't invite him on a group ride.

Gary

I was going to reply ... but honestly ... I couldn't figure what to say.

I was looking for something profound, helpful or inspirational, maybe sadness-despair is blocking me!

I had thoughts ... but nothing worthy of posting ...

I tried:

Dropping roofing nails on the road? Maybe 10% will be point up, the other 90% will have the "heads" edge up - no effect on a car tire, but will shred a bicycle tire. ... ?

Dropping nails where he goes? He might find them himself, unless he never goes that way again. ... ?

Not all A__holes drive cars! ... ?

Someone spots him dropping nails? Likely to "accidentally" get his bike, or him, crushed, mangled, disappeared etc. ... ?

Don't worry! Karma is a bitch! Vindictive and tenacious ... ?

[MattyCiii]

Probably shouldn't invite him on a group ride.

I'll ride last.




Yes I've tossed some nails at/under cars in response to what I perceived to be a threat on my life? Yes.
Maybe that's not the greatest sin - maybe my high crime is that I implied others should do the same.

To that I say: Mea culpa - My sin, I'm responsible, I was wrong.

Let me appeal to the Court of Public Opinion. But first I'll apologize to Dauntless. Dauntless some of the things I posted was out of line. Apparently, I'm the one with a self-indulgent chip on my shoulder - I carry a cyclist bias. I need to get that in check.


My appeal: I have exercised poor judgement and attempted to incite similar bad behavior - the cardinal sin being that I know from experience that said behavior is ineffective. Here's the full allocution:

• As a cyclist on the road, a taxpayer (who subsidizes roadbuilding & maintenance far above the amount of wear & tear I incur) and a person with legitimate right to the road,
• As someone harassed - and hazarded daily by motorists, and as someone the police - keepers of the keys to justice and recourse - basically (repeatedly) said they were unwilling/unable to help,
• As a son caring for an infirm mother, and a custodial father raising a minor child (i.e., I don't want some driver to kill me; beyond my desire to live, who will care for my mother and daughter?),

I have tried many things, some Good, some Bad, to improve my safety while riding. That's the central thesis.
Please don't get me wrong here.

• I'm sorry for being a douche to Dauntless (Sin: violating a standard of civility to a peer member of the ES community).
• I'm not sorry for any possible/likely flat tires my nails have caused (Sin: trying to not get killed by belligerent motorists while commuting).

The broader context: For the crime of throwing nails on the street: I only committed the crime a "handful" of times. And that was awhile ago.
If it pleases the court: I offer my guiding principle, or as Dexter might say, "my code": Think of ways to improve your safety. Observe. what works. Discard what doesn't.

I stopped tossing nails on the road, not on moral grounds, but because it doesn't work.

Tactics like yellow paint, a center punch, or scratching paint with a coat hanger (read the whole thread) all share the common theme of impacting only the bad driver. Conversely, the nails are blind and blunt, and can impact the legitimately innocent. Whilst I can aim for the white-knuckled a-hole- gunning for me in his beemer douche, I might instead flatten the tires of Granny Jones' car.

I get it now. I've stopped. No mas.

I have tried many things, some Good, some Bad, to improve my safety while riding.

Mitigating factors: I'll try anything - legal or not, morally wrong or right - to improve the behavior of those piloting two-ton automobiles with a goal toward living longer.
I've tried:

• Roofing nails [fail]
• Air Zound. [fail - will try again though]
• Joining bicycle advocacy groups [jury out]
• Complaints to police [fail! fail! fail!]
• Participating in public process [fail - with or without my presence, "vulnerable roadway user" legislation never made it to the floor. Let's hope 2012 is not a repeat]
• Lots of lights! [success. Noticeable difference in driver behavior when well lighted]
• Lane position [success! A foot or two more to the left creates a profound change in motorist behavior!]

Measures of success: In the future/when I can find the time, I'll mount an array of echolocation/distance sensors I've purchased, hooked to Arduino/data logging SD, got see how lights/horns/lane position/whatever impact passing distance. Why? Because my visceral feel of how drivers respond to these things don't mean squat. Perception is too easily distorted. Data - well collected - tells an objective story. Intuition tells us lies. Data can dispel illusions.
I'll try almost anything, Good, Bad, to improve my safety while riding

[Rassy]

@ MattyCiii, Your previous post was well stated and I just want to say thank-you for taking and expressing a mature attitude. I know you had mentioned the nails before, and likewise, I had expressed my feelings concening a fellow cyclist and ES member that would be so thoughtless. No hard feelings on my part now.

I was on an organized ride in 2010 where someone had thrown thumb tacks on the route, and I'm quite sensitive to the impact that had on all the riders. I picked up two tacks and was saved by the Slime tubes. One of my friends picked up four tacks and had to replace three tubes on her two wheeled bike.

Concerning techniques that work, someone, from New York I think, once posted how much more respect he recieved when pulling one of those little light weight childs trailers. He had initially used it only occasionaly when he needed to haul something, but after noting the reaction he started using it all the time. He even reported that it worked best when the top was up and car drivers just assumed there was a child on board even though they couldn't see inside. A side benefit was having a place to haul things whenever he decided to stop at a store.

[DrkAngel]

Any sort of aggression by a cyclist appears to generate a fresh round of amplified aggression, towards the offending cyclist ... and against all cyclists!
Any driver who intentionally offends you is likely goading you, looking for a response, ready to really damage you if they get it.
Any driver who accidentally offends you might respond well to a calm explanation of the offense, but is liable to be turned anti-cyclist by an angry confrontation. They might be apologetic and forever more careful to the "human being", but also, liable to turn apathetic or hostile towards a ranting "animal".

[Dauntless]

Dang, should I take this as my avatar?

@ Dauntless

I don't get on roads where any fool should be able to tell a bike doesn't belong there

There is a difference between a car merging into your lane a distance in front of you vs the space where you are unsafely nearly killing you.

There's also a difference in the roads, there's weaving from lane to lane in heavy traffic, forcing your way in where you're automatically a problem just by being there then wrongly passing blame onto your victims, etc. etc. etc. Or has Seinfeld would say, "Yada yada yada." That's it. No amount of obfuscation will change that. So many of these videos I want to think of as neologisms; their platforms for meaningless expressions of misplaced anger.

Alright, alright, I'll stop being an english major.

If you are caught in traffic you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel - sidewalk, bike lane, other car lanes. I can't count the number of times I've seen cars deliberately pull right on a straight road when stopped in traffic to block the bike lane. Try waiting in your lane for a space to FULLY open up allowing you to turn instead of illegally inching across the bike path and sidewalk.

If you're caught in traffic you're caught in traffic. Repeat this statement of yours over and over to yourself as you reread your 'Pigs Gone Wild' statement.

you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel
they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, (Blocking) they have every right to (Deliberately block) the lane.
you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel
they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, (Blocking) they have every right to (Deliberately block) the lane.
you are still obligated to not block other paths of travel
they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, (Blocking) they have every right to (Deliberately block) the lane.

You can't have it both ways, only one standard can exist. And cyclists do know that, some just don't WANT to.

Cop above the law vid: The cop was indeed wrong to stop without first flashing lights, he also failed to look in the mirror before opening the door. The scooter then mounted the sidewalk to make way to designated scooter parking avoiding the ONE WAY STREET, you will notice the multiple red markings on the walkway pavement marking off the pathway to the scooter parking.

Riding a motorcycle on the sidewalk is riding a motorcycle on the sidewalk. If someone in a car or on a skateboard did that, going right at pedestrians, you'd be ---(iNSERT DOUBLE STANDARD HERE.) I can't imagine there's a vehicle code anywhere that says "But if it's more convenient for someone on a motorcycle to just ride up the sidewalk at the pedestrians to get to parking. . . ." The same people complaining about the cars that are on the road where they're supposed to be have no trouble with the motorcycle riding at the pedestrians where he's NOT supposed to be???????????


Conservative MP Andrea Leadsom last (YEAR) introduced a private member's bill to the Commons, proposing a new offence of causing death by dangerous cycling. She used the example of 17-year-old Rhiannon Bennett, who was knocked down and killed by cyclist John Howard as she walked with friends in Buckingham in April 2007. "I am a keen cyclist. . . .

Pigs gone wild. It was a critical mass drive aka a protest - Also not they broke NO LAW other than driving abreast, they have every right to take the lane. Notice how when the cops pull forward to pick on the guy with the camera there is no traffic held up behind them, he had also gone to the bike lane at that point, also note how they fail to ID the person they want to stop as everyone is on a bike, then they violate the rights of the people on the sidewalk threatening them with loitering, then violated the guys right to videotape the encounter.

Funny thing is, my friend the competitive cyclist dismisses these people as "Not real cyclists." Of course this guy sees things where he wants to grab the jerk and pitch him off the bike himself. Quite an activist for doing the right thing. (Guess you wouldn't like him. He's a great guy, ask his wife.)

Number one thing to me is maybe in Canada. In the U.S. when you have the law breaking that's recorded in the video the cops run traffic breaks, with another car farther back slowing the traffic so noone approaches, OF COURSE I don't expect to see anyone following them, I'd have been surprised if I did see them. Note how long the parade of cars becomes once they get it cleared and the traffic break is released. Actrually the video doesn't go on long enough to show just how long a traffic jam they committed the crime of deliberately creating. Calling a crime a protest doesn't make it less of a crime, it makes it a confession. When some of the guilty party continue to interfere after they've been allowed to leave they have no right, therefore their rights are not violated. The video tope proves their rights were not violated.

The Norco bank robbery, 1980, a protest against the U.S. government that got a police officer and two assailants killed, 9 officers and I think all the other 3 assailants wounded, plus a kid maybe 12 years old had his finger shot off when the bad guys momentarily lost the cops and needed someone else to shoot at to maintain their commitment to nonstop gunfire. (Over 27,000 rounds in 45 minutes.) What these two gatherings have in common is that they were excuses to hate/planned confrontations: I refuse to be sympathetic to that. Doesn't matter how big or small, the intentions are bad. We had mass demonstrations here against the killing of a homeless man last summer without people calling trouble, they even stood around talking to some officers during. (Two cops are about to go on trial.) A bicycle to me is what I bought for pocketchange in the 2nd grade. It was a classmate's father's bike as a kid, but it wasn't going to be rideable until I figured out how to use tools so I could fix it. Dad was a very sternfaced engineer, but you should have seen how giddy he got over me being determined to do this myself. (Hence the nickname 'Dauntless.') You're not going to convince me a bicycle is the valid excuse to hate that those (Not real) cyclists are claiming it is. Yeah, I'm with Jos, they're not even real cyclists.

As long as he'd apparently been following, since he was using the P.A. nonstop, plus what you can pick out from the responses, I'd say this officer knew he was dealing with a deliberate effort to get in trouble over FALSE ideas of what he could get away with. If one guy is the leader, guess who they go after. Dang, I'm just waiting for them to start singing "You can get any bike you want, at Alice's cycle shop." Of course Alice's cycle shop isn't the name of the cycle shop, it's the name of the song, and that's why I call this song. . . .

But ultimately, all we are say--ing, is give bike laws a chance. (As I think the majority of us on bikes do, contrary to the message of many in this thread.) Even so, most accidents are caused by the rider, a hard fact to argue away when you're complaining about the drivers not staying 3 feet from you even though you don't stay 3 feet from them. In California, probably in every state, bikes do not own the road. They do not have right of way, specifically, in the vehicle code. Basically the vehicle code is telling you that you're allowed to ride your bike if and when it's convenient. In one of these threads, maybe this one but I'm not searching, I mentioned running interference for a slow moving guy too far out on a tadpole. Oh, he'd have been ticketed no matter how much he tried to argue his "Rights" that no he doesn't have; he was causing trouble. I may well have been ticketed too, except I'd be saying ". . . .I know all that, but the problem would have been bigger if I let someone hit him and you know it." I doubt the cop would have gone on arguing.

Don't start about you pay taxes, and. . . . The people who don't ride bikes greatly outnumber those of us who do. If they started counting all the bikes in my state, not only would we be well short of enough for everyone, I've got about 40, count 'em 40, (Neighborhood kids go in my backyard and take them to ride then bring them back broken) I know lots of people with multiple bikes who don't see others riding on their street, a la there really isn't the numbers for people to think they can throw their weight around. Nor is there an excuse to be made for riding the scooter on the sidewalk or saying there's something wrong with what the cop did parking or getting out of the car out there in front of him. Reminds me of the Issac Asimov novel with the people who can't stand knowing there's others of their kind on the planet and it's an abomination to see another living creature. You gotta interact, deal with it. Just as Jos would probably be expecting me to take home the bike he just confiscated from the unworthy (Not real) cyclist. Figure it out, there's not even very many of the cyclists on your side.

In the Bus video. . . .

Stop right there, I didn't say anything about it, dismissed as nongermane. I just don't want to respond to any more tenuous opinion with facts if I haven't gotten myself into that one already. I'm dealing with enough of the ridiculous. . . .

In the motor cycle between two cars. What is not shown is. . . .

. . . .Much of anything to support your description. If I was writing the continuity on this, I'd start with the detail that the cars were stopped as he rode up between them. What you're saying wasn't shown and is something you can't claim happened for that very reason. You're inventing excuses for him that aren't even enough. Maybe because I've built sound effects that make one suppose about what they're hearing from off camera I tend to visualize what I think I'm hearing, I think the sounds of him jumping on and then the engine revving and tires chirping are distinct. However it IS present; this supposition of yours of what happened before the video is simply unsupportable and argumentative. 2 wheels are not automatically right in any dispute with 4 wheels, contrary to the argument quite a few try to make in this thread. I spend a lot of time on both and see both at fault a lot. The one bias I'll admit to is against rationalized violence. If my fellow cyclist wants to attack someone because that one was going faster than him and moved into his Muammar Gaddafi "200 mile line of death" in front of him, I'm all for doubling his sentence, he deserves it. The slight is imaginary. I can post video after video of the not really bad things someone caught on tape and used as their justification to vandalize the car and put it on YouTube. Even a few where they became violent. Arrest them all.

Also unsupportable by what's in the video is there's no reason to think he was after the keys, that's simply making more excuses for him. I reserve any identifying with someone for times when it's someone good. The last thing I'm going to do is feel for what is obviously a bad guy who strikes me as quite at home with the incident when he gets his closeup. He did, however, ride into the space between the stopped cars, that can't be argued with.

Re the internal monologue vid: didn't watch as it's one of those proselytizing religious vids.

I took it as fiction, a comedy in characterization video. It's narrated afterwards, the guy just looks at his video and decides what to say. Maybe he's not even the rider. Same with this. I had to send this to Nick, who refuses to ride but this so makes me think of what he'd be like; even looks and sounds like him. You know the rider is not recording himself inside the helmet, again it doesn't have to be the actual rider who's speaking when it's dubbed later.

Of course, Nick's response was "OMG!" A few people who hadn't actually met him yet are now looking forward to it after seeing this. Meanwhile, you guys got me spending a 2nd night sitting up watching videos and responding. I know I manage to make it seem fun, but that's what I do. I'm gonna need to stage a protest. . . .

[dogman]

Matt fails to mention the single most effective way to ride safe.

Better route selection. I'm continualy amazed at the folks that post, "there is no other way". That would be the point when I personally would question the vehicle selection, if riding long distances on clearly hazardous streets is the only choice.

Face it folks, road rights are great, but riding a long section of the wrong road on bicycles daily is not exactly smart. A short bit of danger, perhaps crossing a busy road is one thing. But riding a long ways where there is no shoulder and traffic is really fast calls for a registered and insured vehicle that can keep up.

Re scratching cars as they pass. The folks I knew that did this never did it riding alone. They did it when riding in a large group, riding single file. Dont pick fights when solo.

[Lessss]

http://www.examiner.com/alternative-transportation-in-tulsa/tulsa-cyclist-ticketd-for-riding-the-street?cid=db_articles
Tulsa cyclist ticketed for riding in the street

"If...I find you riding in the center of the lane again, I have the power to take you in for a mental health evaluation."

[gogo]

http://www.examiner.com/alternative-transportation-in-tulsa/tulsa-cyclist-ticketd-for-riding-the-street?cid=db_articles
Tulsa cyclist ticketed for riding in the street

"If...I find you riding in the center of the lane again, I have the power to take you in for a mental health evaluation."

A mental health evaluation is in order … for the LEO who pretended to look up the law and then lied about it and essentially harassed the citizen. He's a wannabe that is a power tripper and his career should be nipped in the bud.

[Nehmo]

In California, Governor G. Brown vetoed a bill to require 3 feet clearance. His explanation doesn't make sense. He reads the bill to say cars must slow to 15 mph (24 k/hr), but it doesn't say that. It says 3 feet (1m) clearance or 15 mph or less.

[The fingers]

Obviously he doesn't need or want to ride a bicycle to work. I heard there is a similar bill which recently passed. Probably will not take effect until the new year. Until then we'll keep getting "Jerry Browned".
http://bikinginla.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/jerry-browned-by-a-hollywood-tour-bus/#comments

[cal3thousand]

In California, Governor G. Brown vetoed a bill to require 3 feet clearance. His explanation doesn't make sense. He reads the bill to say cars must slow to 15 mph (24 k/hr), but it doesn't say that. It says 3 feet (1m) clearance or 15 mph or less.

He can't read.

OR

He doesn't understand logical operators.

[Nehmo]

He can't read.
OR
He doesn't understand logical operators.

I'm curious if anybody has asked him to explain his explanation. I suppose I could send a e-mail to him.

My e-mail to the Gov:
On http://bikinginla.files.wordpress.com/2 ... essage.jpg , you explain your veto to the 3-foot clearance for bikes law. But your logic is incorrect. Please re-read your letter.
The law doesn't require traffic to slow down as you state. The law states motor-traffic should give a bike 3 feet of clearance OR proceed at less than 15 mph.

I don't reside in California, but this issue has national significance.

By the way, you do realize the term "Browned" is coming to mean being smashed by a car while riding a bike.
It didn't send using Brown's message system. I'll find his e-address... The message system appears to now work, on 2nd try.

[cal3thousand]

He can't read.
OR
He doesn't understand logical operators.

I'm curious if anybody has asked him to explain his explanation. I suppose I could send a e-mail to him.

My e-mail to the Gov:
On http://bikinginla.files.wordpress.com/2 ... essage.jpg , you explain your veto to the 3-foot clearance for bikes law. But your logic is incorrect. Please re-read your letter.
The law doesn't require traffic to slow down as you state. The law states motor-traffic should give a bike 3 feet of clearance OR proceed at less than 15 mph.

I don't reside in California, but this issue has national significance.

By the way, you do realize the term "Browned" is coming to mean being smashed by a car while riding a bike.
It didn't send using Brown's message system. I'll find his e-address... The message system appears to now work, on 2nd try.

Good point to add that his name being used in this manner.

[Nehmo]

...
My e-mail to the Gov: ...
By the way, you do realize the term "Browned" is coming to mean being smashed by a car while riding a bike.
It didn't send using Brown's message system. I'll find his e-address... The message system appears to now work, on 2nd try.

Good point to add that his name being used in this manner.

I submitted the definition to Urban Dictionary. I've found that UD is rated high enough to get its page on a term to float to near the top of search results.