Someone needing e-bike help on bike forums

[Should be working]

Just realized this is the 2011 Focus. It has a Panasonic 300W motor; the 2012 has the Bosch 350W. But according to my shop person, no one is selling the latter yet. And it's new, and she didn't want to take on the beta risk.

[Ykick]

Just realized this is the 2011 Focus. It has a Panasonic 300W motor; the 2012 has the Bosch 350W. But according to my shop person, no one is selling the latter yet. And it's new, and she didn't want to take on the beta risk.

I rode a Panasonic Pedelec for a couple years. Definitely a pedal class bike but great efficiency for silent, smooth assist.

[teklektik]

Here's a ES thread about a StokeMonkey-like competitor for a Yuba Mundo cargo bike. This is a big heavy bike (47lbs before conversion) and frankly, the mid drive sounds a trifle noisy in the videos. But, it would no doubt zip you up your hill. I have no experience with this - just putting it out there since StokeMonkey was discussed. This is a big moose grocery-getter. I own a converted Mundo, but you may wish for something lighter.

I think it would be worth your while to just drop in on Ebikes SF and see what they have available for you to test (any BMC conversion), just to get a notion of the BMC power. This would give you some idea of whether that option was worth pursuing. If you then shopped for a nice bike you liked (preferably with disk brakes), there would be little techie stuff to know to convert it except choosing a battery size - Ilia would build you up a nice ride and his motor/controller replacement warrantees are solid. They just completed their second move to a bigger storefront next door to their last recent move so things should be settling down. This will probably come in quite a bit below the price of the Jarifa. The Jarifa looks very nice but a little extra shopping can't hurt

[Should be working]

Stokemonkey doesn't seem to be for sale anymore, but it's a great idea.

Yes, I've emailed with Ilia, he has been quite helpful with suggestions. He said I could drop by and test ride something. I'll try to do that in the coming week, likely a BMCV2T. He suggested small wheels for more torque but I like stability and big wheels.

Anyone out there in the East bay with a BMC V2T I could try riding up my hill? I would be really grateful, even pay you for your time.

[teklektik]

Stokemonkey doesn't seem to be for sale anymore, but it's a great idea.

Yep - just to be clear: this is not a StokeMonkey, but similar product. Again - I think this may be more bike than you really want unless you are looking to do Minivan-type hauling .

[sk8norcal]

from Illiad site,

[sk8norcal]

Stokemonkey doesn't seem to be for sale anymore, but it's a great idea.

Yep - just to be clear: this is not a StokeMonkey, but similar product. Again - I think this may be more bike than you really want unless you are looking to do Minivan-type hauling .

http://urbancommuterstore.com/

[Should be working]

More details on the Jarifa, although again I know you guys here at E-S are not off-the-rack types:

It is zippy, almost like that little folding electric BH Volt I tried, again because the weight is good I guess. It has three levels of assist (Ohm had 4) in addition to non-assist mode. Ohm's levels 1 and 2 were not so impressive, but the Jarifa's lowest assist level (called 'eco') gave me an excellent push. And high assist was great. There is no throttle like Ohm had, so pedaling is always required. I'm fine with this, the highest level of assist felt stronger than the Ohm's WOT.

It has, as I said, lower handlebars but weirdly the posture didn't bother me at all, even less than the Ohm's slightly more upright posture had, the latter had made my shoulders sore.

The battery can only be charged off-bike, which I don't see as a problem. The brakes are hydraulic disk. I did like the regen better on the Ohm, because it slows me down so well on descent.

I like it that the motor is more discreetly behind the seat post. The Ohm's huge battery in the step-through was a bit conspicuous for my taste. There was a little humming while I rode but I think that was just the sound of me pedaling, not the motor? Definitely acceptable.

Here are the slight annoyances:
The handlebar grips aren't as good as the Ohm's. After the 3-mi ride down the hill the heel of my hand (is that what it is called?) was a little sore. Perhaps the thing I most wish were redesigned is the gear-changing mechanism. You press once with your right thumb to increase gears, and twice to decrease, but really the "twice" is more just like a bigger, harder press. I like those twisty gear changers instead. There is a bar to step over instead of step-through, but it is not as awkward for me as the Ohm was with that huge battery in the step-through.

Rethinking the build-with-Ilia option: How much would a plain non-ebike as good as the Jarifa's basic bike cost? Need to do some more research.

[Should be working]

correct link:

http://www.newwheel.net/Store/Focus%20J ... index.html

EDIT: again tried to get the truly correct link

[Alan B]

Hi folks. Interesting thread. Received a PM about it. This location is not far from where I work. I may have to try my ebikes on this hill. It sounds a bit steep. I should probably go take a look at it. Going a few miles farther to avoid the steepest grade might be a good solution with the ebike since a few miles are quick and easy and the motor more suitable to the lesser grades.

I have two ebikes running now - a 9C 2810 (from Methods) 72V on a mountain bike that climbs well, and a BMC V2 in a 20" wheel from Ilia on a BikeE recumbent at 48V that climbs moderately well. I have links to my bike build threads here on ES in my signature. The third bike is not complete yet, but it will climb even better when it is done.

[teklektik]

SBW- It sounds like you are asking the right questions and noticing the right things. I'm thinking trips to local bike shops and trial rides are in order.

BTW - The Rans and Breezer that were recommended are not really semi-recumbent, they are crank-forward designs for a more upright riding position, low step-over, and flat foot on the ground. Think 'comfort bike'. Might not be what you will like, but I think your remarks about desired posture may have steered the fellow in that direction.

Needless to say, since you can get anything converted there's little need to compromise, if you don't love it don't buy it...

[MadRhino]

... pedaling is always required. I'm fine with this, the highest level of assist felt stronger than the Ohm's WOT.

Tssst Tssst ! You don't want that as is,
It has to be modified before you ride it up those steep streets.
Pedal start stalls starting uphill, before long you won't be fine with this.
You want hard start, half twist throttle on any bike that you want a climber
The other hand enjoys the grip shift, yet shouldn't have to use it much and that is fine.

The seller should accept to do the mod
That is something to bargain with

Don't bother the handle grips, not the feel of the saddle
For we don't select a horse by the style of the harness
Rather the horse's work he can give
Sensored instant start motor is a willing horse
If he climbs anytime, it'll be worth harnessing right

[Should be working]

Mad Rhino, I'm sure the dealer will not modify the bike, that would void the warranty, and I don't know if this can be modified. The throttle on the Ohm was also not so great for hard starts, but the good news is that my winding-street huge hill is pretty empty of traffic and stop signs, so I rarely have to stop.

Now here's something in the description of the 2011 Focus that I want to know about, it says: "With speeds of up to 40 km/h, this fast e-bike counts as a category L1e moped." Does this mean I'm not legal if I ride this without a motorcycle license?? I know you guys do stuff like this all the time, but this seems pretty intense. I am not someone who wants EVER to ride more than 15mph on any bike, uphill or downhill.

Obviously this solution is more expensive than buying a bike plus a kit. But then there would also be labor costs if I use Ilia, and while he is clearly a reliable and ethical dealer, it's not the same as having an integrated system that my shop would be in charge of and responsible for, with a brand behind it as well.

I'll go try Ilia's bikes next week, this is certainly a wise suggestion, but I'm leaning toward sticking with the Focus for several reasons. First, it's standing in my living room ready to ride (next step would be figuring out where to store it, we don't have a garage). Second, my husband is really sick of hearing all about bikes, hub motors, batteries and everything I've been studying since joining this forum, and this is starting to preoccupy me and take away from how I SHOULD BE WORKING, and I am not a hobbyist, I just want to ride. Third, since having hip surgery 13 yrs ago and therefore giving up running, I have NEVER found any exercise or activity that made my legs feel well-worked without irritating my hip. That includes vigorous walking, hiking, swimming (each hip was operated differently and they have opposite rotation restrictions, so most strokes/kicks require one or the other hip to do something it doesn't like to do). I rode on flat land last year in Europe and felt my hip a little. The Ohm sort of worked on my hill, but I felt my hip. With the Focus, I didn't feel it AT ALL and my legs were wonderfully tired and well-worked-out. It was like it ONLY worked my legs, not my hips. I've never felt like that on a bike, even on flat land. So I could mess with building a bike and then end up with one that I feel in my hip. I don't know why I don't feel the Focus in my hip--weight, geometry, feel of motor--but to me this is a huge benefit, albeit a costly one.

[Ykick]

SBW - weight seems to be an important consideration without a garage you may need to lift up stairs, etc. My Panasonic Pedelec was extremely lightweight and very easy to carry in/out of my NYC apt. I really like those drives although not a powerhouse they maintain a bicycle-like nature which is prefered by some riders.

I change riding geometry with a stem riser for threadless headsets which appears the Focus uses. You'll tweak things to your liking and if the bug really gets hold of you, perhaps look at adding a "hot rod" bike later down the road? LOL...

Enjoy!

[teklektik]

With the Focus, I didn't feel it AT ALL and my legs were wonderfully tired and well-worked-out. It was like it ONLY worked my legs, not my hips. I've never felt like that on a bike, even on flat land. So I could mess with building a bike and then end up with one that I feel in my hip. I don't know why I don't feel the Focus in my hip--weight, geometry, feel of motor--but to me this is a huge benefit, albeit a costly one.

This is almost certainly due to the 'inefficiencies ' of an upright 'comfort bike' posture that pretty much preclude using major muscles that incidentally put a load on your hip. You are quite right - it is a geometry thing ('crank-forward' like the Rans/Breezer).

I think your observations are very valid and the Focus will make you very happy.... in the end, that's what you want. After a bit of biking, your strength will improve and the hill will get flatter, making your Focus even more attractive.

Even if the forum didn't get you a custom solution, I think you should feel comforted moving forward that you pretty thoroughly explored your options and made an informed decision.

[MadRhino]

If Ilia agrees to build a bike for you, it will be what you need and he will back it with better after sale service than any "branded" commercial Ebike.

[Should be working]

MadRhino, point taken. He's a guy, not a company, and a local guy, and like you all truly obsessed with the ebike thing.

[teklektik]

The very helpful SF ebike store young lady BROUGHT me, to my house, several other bikes to try. Very good service. We rode together up the hill a few times, switching off bikes.

But she also brought me a Focus Jarifa Speed to try, with a Bosch middrive 350W 36V motor. ...how did I make these grades I've been complaining about with just 350W?

Your Focus Jarifa Speed appears to be a true mid-drive with 300-450W motor. This puts it in the same general design class as the StokeMonkey where where the motor drives through the sprockets and you have the option of downshifting to attack steeper hills or upshifting to go faster on the flat. This design is the about the best hill-climber you will find and a few Watts go a long way because of the normal bike gearing. You might like to try attacking your hill trying different lower gear settings to keep the motor spinning happily - the results may be interesting. I believe that you will find that you may need to go slower because you may need to downshift further, but you will always be able to climb a hill.

With the German Bosch mid-drive, Avid hydraulic brakes, etc, there is no doubt the Focus is very deluxe solution. The local bike shop that sent a lady to help you sounds quite good, and they will (should) be your repair and warrantee interface, not the company itself.

I have purchased motors/controllers from Ilia (+ recommended him above) and his service is exceptional (I actually just got a warrantee replacement controller from in the mail 2 hours ago ). I do believe he can put together a good build for you. So, do see what Ilia can do for you. Technically, it will probably come down to a 600-900W geared BMC hub motor (Ilia's Watt recommendation for hill-climbing) vs a 300-450W mid-drive.

In the end, it's a Quality of Life issue and you will need to look at the best way to trade bucks for years of enjoyment...

[Alan B]

Category L1e moped

In the UK this is defined as a 45 kph 4kw machine.

In California an ebike is allowed 1kw 20mph which is 32 kph, and the motor should not go over that speed.

The Jarifa Speed indicates it can get to 40 kph.

So technically it is out of the ebike class by a few kph, but with that low power and bicycle appearance it should not be in the moped class. It certainly is not a 4kw machine.

[Should be working]

Teklektik, it's the 2011 Jarifa Speed, hence a Panasonic 300w motor, not the newer 2012 with the Bosch. Brakes are Avid Elixir but I think those are good too. I'm glad you think it's a good object, and indeed my only question is whether I want to spend more time and energy on this to save money, or part with the money and be happy. Trying Ilia's bikes is the fork in the flow chart on this point; if I like the BMC on a 26" wheel as much as the Focus, then I could consider giving back the Focus and working with Ilia instead in order to save money. If I like the feel of the Focus better, then I'm done. I'm trying Ilia's BMC 26"wheel bike early next week, will write reviews.

Yeah, the SF shop I bought it from provides lifetime tuneups and lots of support. They are, however, themselves a totally new venture so I can't be sure they will be around forever for servicing the bike.

[teklektik]

Teklektik, it's the 2011 Jarifa Speed, hence a Panasonic 300w motor, not the newer 2012 with the Bosch.

Hmmm - okay - I couldn't find much on the Panasonic except its the same basic mid-drive concept. The links you gave all led to Bosch-powered bikes, hence the confusion (oops!).

Anyhow, looks like you have a clear plan for moving forward - let us know how your shopping goes .

[sk8norcal]

panasonic assist,
http://www.kalkhoffusa.com/pedal-assisted-bikes.php

[teklektik]

Good sleuthing!
Thanks - very interesting.

[Should be working]

Here's the link to the 2011 Focus, but I'm having trouble finding the weight.

http://www.newwheel.net/Store/Focus%20J ... index.html

[wesnewell]

I wouldn't pay more than $700 for that thing. That is, if I wanted to go that slow. $3400 is crazy and with a whopping 468Wh battery pack that's suppose to have an 80 mile range. Another PT Barnum moment.