1000w motor for plug type sprockets

[louispower]

Hi all my friends,

we have been working on small motors for EU standard electric bikes these 2 years while US market becomes a blank for us The biggest market in the world for almost everything....

Now we put market this bigger motor hoping sharing with friends here and wish to see if there would be a market in US for it.

This is still a planetary motor but free wheel type, same as the motors we are selling in Europe, peak power is about 1000w, it fits only plug type sprockets, could be front wheel drive (disc brake or not), or rear wheel drive (disc brake only, plug type sprockets only), the disc is 180mm in diameter.

We use a standard 26" MTB bike to make related tests, on the bike there have been SHIMANO integrated gear shifters with brake levers, so we donot use traditional electric brake levers but a brake sensor to detect the brake actions. This brake sensor will cut off the motor when it detects the rider is braking his bike.

[louispower]

The whole bike looks likes this way.
On the bike handlebar there is a bike analyst which could indicate the bike actual speed, battery level, system power, time, error codes if any, etc. The motor's speed cable is integrated with the motors phase wires, which will be connected with controller for indicating speeds.
The system could offer 9 throttle levels, controlled by the analyst switch.

[louispower]

the motors looks like on the bike

[louispower]

The battery on the bike is 48v10ah lifepo4 with max 15A discharge current, it will be no problem to use a battery with 18A current, the setup max speed is 40kph (could be higher, but not recommended), we use it to climb slopes with 35+ degrees and it could get over these slopes effortlessly by pure throttle.

The test video is herehttp://fusinmotors.com/video.html.

[dogman]

Nice. Clearly you guys have not been asleep lately. Love the use of a 9 speed casette instead of a screw on freewheel. Love the idea of a brake cutoff sensor that does not require the use of kit brake levers.

In short, a kit designed for use on a better than $200 bike. Outstanding.

[Tench]

The quality of those components looks very good, the motor in particular looks very well made. However, your rear brake caliper looks to be mounted on a bracket designed for a 203mm disc, i bet only half the pad is in contact with the rotor with the danger of the unworn faces of the pads coming together and the braking force being lost once some wear has occured.

Simon.

[louispower]

Nice. Clearly you guys have not been asleep lately. Love the use of a 9 speed casette instead of a screw on freewheel. Love the idea of a brake cutoff sensor that does not require the use of kit brake levers.

In short, a kit designed for use on a better than $200 bike. Outstanding.

Hi Dogman thanks for this, long time no see and wish you all fine. Yes the brake sensor could avoid to replace the original bike brake levers if they are integrated with gear shifters, this sensor is actually a haul sensor thus the bike could not use any brake lights any more otherwise the haul will be killed.The analyst works with controller to offer 9 speeds levels, for both throttle and pedal assisted system.

The max 40kph is setup by the analyst, which could be setup even higher or lower by rider. Anyway we think 40kph has been fast enough for an ebike

[louispower]

The quality of those components looks very good, the motor in particular looks very well made. However, your rear brake caliper looks to be mounted on a bracket designed for a 203mm disc, i bet only half the pad is in contact with the rotor with the danger of the unworn faces of the pads coming together and the braking force being lost once some wear has occured.

Simon.

Hi Tench, thanks for the kind comments. The caliper comes from the original MTB and disc is 160mm, so we change the bracket of the caliper and it says on the caliper " 203mm for front / 180mm for rear", thus proves you are right.

A photo of this.

[neptronix]

Nice. You need to get this motor out to some ES members for testing. Or maybe just do a small sale here on the forums so that those interested can try them out.

[amberwolf]

It'd be fun seeing if I could fry that one on my heavy bikes, too.

Can't say much wihtout seeing the insides, but it seems like it could be made to shed heat a lot better than it is. Right now it looks like it'd keep heat in as well as the old Fusins Dogman and I have used (and cooked).

Maybe if you added ridged fins thru the center between spoke flanges, and along the side covers, the surface area of the hub could be increased a lot, perhaps even doubled or tripled, whcih would at least help with getting the heat out of the air in the hub.

Then perhaps see about setting it up from the factory for oil-cooling, whcih ought to help the gears too, as well as getting . the heat out of the motor core and into the covers, so they can then be shedding it to the air outside.

Heat with a higher-power motor is the biggest problem, with geared motors. I definitely don't expect this motor to be able to do 1000W continuous, or even many times in short succession like in constant start-stop traffic, but I would certainly like to prove that expectation wrong.

I know most people aren't going to need it to do that kind of thing, but me and my cargo bikes...we is hard on motors! (and everything else, too!)

[GrayKard]

Might be nice to have a faster "offroad" wind for the US market. Although two of the slow wind motors on my slow trail bike would be a nice replacement for my "Cute" motors when the gears finally give out.

Gary

[louispower]

Nice. You need to get this motor out to some ES members for testing. Or maybe just do a small sale here on the forums so that those interested can try them out.

Neptronix, thanks for the suggestion, are going to do this, wait to see.

[louispower]

It'd be fun seeing if I could fry that one on my heavy bikes, too.

Can't say much wihtout seeing the insides, but it seems like it could be made to shed heat a lot better than it is. Right now it looks like it'd keep heat in as well as the old Fusins Dogman and I have used (and cooked).

Maybe if you added ridged fins thru the center between spoke flanges, and along the side covers, the surface area of the hub could be increased a lot, perhaps even doubled or tripled, whcih would at least help with getting the heat out of the air in the hub.

Then perhaps see about setting it up from the factory for oil-cooling, whcih ought to help the gears too, as well as getting . the heat out of the motor core and into the covers, so they can then be shedding it to the air outside.

Heat with a higher-power motor is the biggest problem, with geared motors. I definitely don't expect this motor to be able to do 1000W continuous, or even many times in short succession like in constant start-stop traffic, but I would certainly like to prove that expectation wrong.

I know most people aren't going to need it to do that kind of thing, but me and my cargo bikes...we is hard on motors! (and everything else, too!)

Amberwolf, no your news till today, sad to hear the motor in your hand was cooked That one was our 1st motor and was stopped several years ago, then we develop based on it 2nd motor which has similar structure as that of this big motor posted here. But do you believe I got eamils weeks ago from US saying they have been using our motor for 3 years and it is still working fine, another one said he needs a gear to replace the broken gear then will work again have been over 3 years....
We have also been selling out 2nd motor in Europe for 2 years and not yet have complaints on the motor. European people is much gentle, than American people, maybe.
Well for your tricycle you might not use this rear wheel motor but a front wheel motor, same powered but just for front wheel drive.
We limit the controller current under 18A, with that when the intput power is 850w(17.71A), the measured output power is 675W, efficiency is about 80%. In the test video the battery's max discharge current is 14.9A, the analyst shows 720w at most, means the output power is 576w.
However our another big motor but front wheel drive is waiting for your cooking, we equip it with a 20A controller and 3 speeds setup. The higher current the controller has, the easier your cooking will be

[louispower]

Might be nice to have a faster "offroad" wind for the US market. Although two of the slow wind motors on my slow trail bike would be a nice replacement for my "Cute" motors when the gears finally give out.

Gary

Gary, the motor's peak speed could reaches 45kph with 26" wheel, the analyst has a function to adjust the wheel size setup and top speed limitation.

[amberwolf]

Amberwolf, no your news till today, sad to hear the motor in your hand was cooked

Actually, it's not thermally cooked to death yet, but I have overheated it twice to the point the halls stopped working for a while. I may have damaged a hall this last time, but not sure since I haven't tested it yet, as I have to repair or replace the clutch that is the actual failure--it cracked and thus doesn't transmit any power. A hose clamp around it fixed it long enough to get me home.

So that motor, the 36V original I got from Dogman, has actually survived a lot of abuse quite well--much better than some other motors people have discussed here on ES.

Even the two 48V versions of that motor that Dogman also had that I now have, survived severe overheating with only desoldering damage! (though the windings are rather dark, they still work!). (I'll add the link to the post about that repair here as soon as I type it up. )
LINK: viewtopic.php?p=567908#p567908

So, so far the only things actually failed on any of those three motors, each abused by two of us, are the clutch broken on th 36V and the overheating of the two 48V units that caused solder to melt and run, shorting hall power on one, and resistors connecting the halls to signal wires to fall off on the other. I'd say that's pretty good.

So basically I'd give Fusin motors two thumbs up so far.

But do you believe I got eamils weeks ago from US saying they have been using our motor for 3 years and it is still working fine, another one said he needs a gear to replace the broken gear then will work again have been over 3 years....

Yes; I think I am the one that referred the second person to you for that.

We have also been selling out 2nd motor in Europe for 2 years and not yet have complaints on the motor. European people is much gentle, than American people, maybe.

Probably, since the rules there are much more power-restrictive.

Well for your tricycle you might not use this rear wheel motor but a front wheel motor, same powered but just for front wheel drive.

If you are referring to me, I don't (yet) have a tricycle, though I do have plans to use two of the older Fusin motors on a trike, one in the right (undriven by pedal chain) wheel, and one not laced in a wheel but rather used as a middrive to run the other wheel thru the pedal chain system. If I ever get time to get around to that.

For CrazyBike2 or DayGlo Avenger, I'd rather use a rear wheel, based on performance so far with a different motor.

However our another big motor but front wheel drive is waiting for your cooking, we equip it with a 20A controller and 3 speeds setup. The higher current the controller has, the easier your cooking will be

Yeah, I know. Personally I prefer the rear motors, as I can easily make up a front fork that can hold one but it's harder to make a front fit on a rear triangle, when I want to experiment with different configurations for whatever reason.

[amberwolf]

Fusin has offered a complete rear kit (minus battery, which I've got ones that will work) for review testing, with the only catch that I'd need to pay for part of the shipping to get it here: $120USD. Unfortunately I can't afford that much in any reasonable time frame. So:

If there are enough people that would like to see this reviewed by me, enough to donate toward the shipping, I would like to make a list, and then if there are enough to pay for the shipping, I would put all of you in touch with Fusin to directly send them the money, so you don't have to worry about me spending it on dog food.

Because this is a kit intended for a normal bike, and not my heavy cargo bikes, it's first testing and review would be on one of my normal bikes, probably the Nishik-E:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33246
and/or on a full-suspension frame Mdd0127 donated to me, once I build it into an actual complete bike.


Of course, after its' been tested for a while on a "normal" bike, it can go on one of my contraptions for more serious abuse. Maybe even oil cooling it, partly filled with ATF or something.

Another test possible since this is a rear and the other Fusins I have are the front, is to mount both on one bike, and make a two-wheel drive system that I can switch between at will, to compare both systems in the same ride and conditions. Or just use both for extra power. Since both are freewheeling internally, then it won't even add much if any drag to the bike to not power both motors (unlike with a DD two-wheel drive).

[dogman]

Since I have become sick, I pretty much never ride a bike anymore. A few short 2 mile runs to the flea market a month to keep my pingbattery healthy, and that's it. So I can't review it this time. A proper review is going to take riding it at least 500 miles before the modifications begin.

PM sent offering some shipping bux.

[deVries]

Might be nice to have a faster "offroad" wind for the US market. Although two of the slow wind motors on my slow trail bike would be a nice replacement for my "Cute" motors when the gears finally give out.

Gary

Gary, the motor's peak speed could reaches 45kph with 26" wheel, the analyst has a function to adjust the wheel size setup and top speed limitation.

1) If someone wants to push your motor to the limits and not use your "analyst" controller, then can you sell just the motor with no "analyst" controller?

2) Will this motor work well with another controller for higher voltage & amps?

3) What would be the highest voltage & amps the motor could withstand for 10 minutes continuous?

4) Same question (above) except for 5 minutes continuous?

5) What is the internal gear ratio? What material is the gears? Nylon or

Thank you Louis. Good to see you again...

[amberwolf]

Fusin has graciously covered the shipping costs themselves, and a review / test kit is on it's way, due to arrive end of week or early next week. I'll make up a new thread for it and link it here, once it arrives and I get the unpacking/etc. started and documented.

The first bike it will go on will be a "normal" bike, and I'll test it as thoroughly as possible using it as a commuter/etc. for at least a few hundred miles, before I try doing anything "excessive" with it, like trying to run CrazyBike2 with it.

There will likely be other concurrent experiments with it, such as running an older Fusin front motor along with this new rear one, just to see what 2WD geared motors run like (since both have freewheeling clutches, and thus don't introduce much drag when not powered, unlike some DD motors).

[63corvairsprint]

Is this currently the only hub motor offering the "plug sprocket" for current road bike style cassettes?

[Herrsprocket]

In September of last year, Bafang introduced their new CST hub motor. As yet, none of these new hub motors have gotten into the hands of a consumer. Only one website, as far as I could find, is advertising that they will be selling the new CST motor (sorry, I googled the European company, but I don't remember the name and I'm too lazy to look it up again ). They advertise a price of 199 Euro for the bare motor and they were anticipating getting the product in by mid April, but as yet the CST has not arrived.

The biggest differences I can discern from the information that is available, is that the Bafang motor seems to be larger in diameter, yet narrower across the coil area. Also, the Fusin motor appears to be only sensorless, whereas the CST can be ordered either sensored or sensorless. Even though both motors seem to be amiable towards operating in either 36 V or 48 V, the Fusin motor advertises that it is a 500 W motor(with peak of 1000 W), while the CST is advertised at a Euro smart 250 W continuous. The wattage output clearly is a product of how much amperage the two motors are using, whereby the CST motor (using the companies controller) is designed to use approximately 7 A continuous, while the Fusin motor advertises 17 A continuous. Unless there are other internal limitations within the motors themselves, I have researched and found that the phase wires coming out of both motors are very similar in thickness, so I would guess that the lower amp usage for the CST motor is conservative.

It will be very entertaining to read Amberwolfs review of the Fusin motor when he receives it either late this week or early next week. As detailed product information is limited from the manufacturers for public consumption, it will be terrific when Amberwolf will have a chance to "spec out" the motor for us.

Here's a link to a thread posted back in September of 2011.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31624&hilit=bafang+cst

[dogman]

There is a new crystalyte motor for cassetes. Sort of aimed at replacing the 400 series motors I believe. I'm unsure if there is an american vendor of them or not.

[GrayKard]

I saw the Bafang a while back on their website but when I emailed for info I never got a reply so thanks for an update on that.

With those goofy spokes I wonder who will take a chance on the xlyte G hub motor. hi-powercycles had them on sale in the For Sale New section but they are listed as sold out now. Would love to see a review on those too.

Look forward to AW's Fusin review!

Gary

[amberwolf]

I think the Crystalyte G-series also has a cassette type freewheeling mechanism built into the hub, but the hub requires custom-made spokes; they are not shaped like bicycle spokes, but more like motorcycle ones (yet not the same angles or thicknesses as the MC types i have here on two dirtbike wheelsets). So when the spokes break on those, it may be tough to get replacements.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=34203
Hi-powercycles had some for a while a couple months ago, not sure if they got more in.


The Fusin has the advantage of A) being available, and B) being "standard" in the spoke types (probably using 12G spokes, like the old original-model Fusins I have here).

We'll see what it's like for real, soon--it's in San Francisco at Customs right now, according to the EMS page, as of noon today, PST.

I've been gathering up the bits and pieces needed to put a bike together to test it on, whenever I have to dig thru my stuff for other things (which is often). Found almost everything so far, for it to be just a regular bicycle (without all my lights and whatnot; the fusin does come with some very basic ones but no turn signals AFAICR. May have to use some old wire baskets front/rear instead of cargo pods to carry my work stuff in while I use it as a test commuter).

[amberwolf]

New thread for review (and bike build) here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =4&t=39877
Still building the bike until the kit arrives:

Got a ways to go, and not enough spare time. :/