Direct drive or geared?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.

Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Wed May 16, 2012 12:05 am

Yes, please don't laugh as I hope we didn't mess up terribly and we're still working on getting the bikes...working.


May I ask what you paid just so I can understand your investment in these two bikes you bought, 2 identical, right? You can PM me privately if you want to share some info that way too. (Look for the PM button to the right of this post where my info is.)

1) First off, I think you got a decent 1st basic eBike that could be modded, if needed, to work for your needs. To keep costs low see if the seller will fix the problems. Can you describe specifically what the problems are too?

2) It looks like the stem for handlebars can also swivel to swing back towards the rear to get the handlebars closer to you. Otherwise, you can get some sweep back bars that would look cool on that bike & give you a "no reach" feel for good control leverage & turning, etc.

3) You can get a spring seat for bumps & put one of those gel "blubber" pads on it too for vibrations, if needed, so you could lower the seat if you can't with the seat tube you have now. You have a frame with no top tube, so getting that handlebar adjusted or replaced with your seat lowered should get your feet well planted on the ground.

4) Once you get this bike repaired & ungraded, then you can determine if it's good enough to pull the dog & trailer. I highly recommend you go to Craig's List & search on bicycle trailer to get a feel for what's in your area. You might search on electric bikes just to see what pops-up too. Also, check out Portland OR & other big "bicycle cities" to get an idea of the types of trailers that are available. Also, check out Amazon for dog/bicycle trailers.

5) To keep costs low & still do what you need, if you can't return the eBikes for refund or decide not to, then you can upgrade your existing setup without getting into complicated upgrades. Believe me, you do NOT want to play around with this as a challenging DIY project, imo, unless your husband is really, really, into wanting to spend hours, days, weeks figuring this all out for The Love of eBikes. We're eBike "freaks" in here, and so we are fantasizing, eating, sleeping, drinking eBikes for some strange reason. :P It's not normal. :lol:

6) If you need more power or better brakes with the dog trailer, then we'll have some ideas for you. To K.I.S.S. (keep it simple silly/stupid) I would only upgrade the DD motor setup you have now. Better wait on that to see what we can do with what you have now. This upgrade may cost between $300-$600 per bike, but no sense in worrying about that now. There are too many options.

7) I'll stop here on a lucky number. :wink: You're very brave to attempt this. Ride very slowly without the trailer & with the trailer sans dog to get a hang of it. Preferably in a parking lot, wide empty bike path or empty level street for practice. Then add the dog & repeat. Then try the hills you will actually climb with/without trailer/dog. :idea:

Hey, we're going to want to see some videos once you reach your goals with this eBike. Lots of good people here, so I'm sure someone is going to get you fixed-up here one way or another! If you end-up ditching these eBikes, then you might get a good used one from someone in here in the Wanted or For Sale Sections on ES. Or, maybe Craig's list might have some in your area often enough, so you could test ride it in person. We could give you feedback on any "finds" you locate too.

Best of luck to you. You have amazing challenges ahead, but you know "the saying" that when you can come-out the other side you can/will be a changed person in unexpected & positive ways too. So, somehow looking back, there can be some beautiful sunny days without the clouds of doom worrying you anymore. Acceptance & loving each moment & all the little pleasures we have each day; that's simply what's in the remaining journey of what we all really have. Looking forward to the joys you will find in your simple day to day eBike travels too. Something lost now found again and cherished so much more! 8)

Btw, what dog will be hitching your rides? :D
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Wed May 16, 2012 2:39 pm

So this is my baby...her name is Siena and she is a registered Service Dog. She weighs about 65lbs and is a Labradoodle. I included several pics so you'll get to "know" her a bit!

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In talking with my husband, I think we'd both be more comfortable returning these bikes and getting something that fits me better. I specifically asked the seat height before we purchased and was told 30" when it's actually closer to 35". As stated before, if I go with a standard seatpost I can gain a few inches back and mod the handlebars so that they fit me better but I'll still be a small person trying to manipulate a larger machine. I'll figure it out if they absolutely won't take it back but that would be going against what the company we purchased it from has said...so I think with a little "fighting", we can get it done. Not looking forward to it.

Assuming that we can return these, and we're starting from scratch, it would really help as I look for the "perfect fit" bike...what's best for an ebike conversion...more gears? Internal gears or external only? Steel front fork if we're going to do a front mount system but I don't know if that's the best option either. We'd like basic "commuter proofing" (fenders, chainguard, etc) but I know that those can easily be purchased aftermarket. What about brakes? Most of the crank forward bikes have standard V brakes. I'd like to be able to change that to disc...even if it's in the future. What's required for that? A new fork? I'm probably looking at standard 26" wheels...is there anything specific to wheels that is needed? How do you feel about wheel size? If I need to go 24" or even 20" what will the differences be? Or is it just a "no no" for what I'm looking at doing? My husband is pretty stressed about all this only because we've had a couple of experiences where we ordered bikes that didn't work out as promised. Completely understandable. We'll likely get the bikes alone at a LBS so we know the fit and finish is good.

I don't know if he'd be persuaded to buy another full bike online (especially since the sizing problem for me seems to be rampant) BUT, having said that, are there any full bikes that you'd say...definitely don't make any decisions without checking out...xyz bike?

I've been checking craigslist in our area for ebikes...no luck. Also, there are rarely child carrier trailers but not dog ones. I've found a couple of options on Amazon and a site called thedogoutdoors.com. They seem to be decent options without the price of a brand new Burley.

I'm really looking forward to hearing your thoughts. I'm Rachel, BTW. Or you can call me Rae...either is fine. :)

Thanks again for all of your help! I appreciate it so much.
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Wed May 16, 2012 3:32 pm

I'm Rachel, BTW. Or you can call me Rae...either is fine.


:D Are you an awesome 20-30min chef too? :P

Wholly Molley Labadoolley freak'n awesomely cute!!! Siena! What a super-one-eyed-grin'n best friend you have! My best friend Rocky would love being playmates with that cutesee'pie... he's a smart handsome cool blue-eyed calm-relaxed Border Collie if you can believe that calm/relaxed part. :twisted:

Since you have issues with fit, then definitely go with the return. Go to your LBS store & get a good bike & fit for you there. That way they can make adjustments, service repairs, and it's good to support your LBS too. 8) Or, if you're up to it & there are enough bicycles that come-up on Craig's list, then maybe... I'd recommend a hard-tail with front suspension fork. Some of the older bikes that have disc-brake mounts could be made of chrome-molly (CM), which is preferred by most on ES more so than aluminum. The CM is more flexible & less brittle so less road shock-vibrations & could be repaired more easily. It's much more rare to find a CM bike new though, so that's why used could be a great "find" & less $ too. Any LBS stores that carry used bikes too?

I'm going to recommend going with a rear drive motor in the wheel, since this maintains the KISS concept that's definitely best for you & your husband. Minimal adjustments. Minimal repairs. You'll need more power than that 350w that came with your other eBike. So, either go with a lighter weight geared motor called a MAC, or go with a DD heavier motor that (either motor) will be able to pull the trailer, dog, & you too. You don't need to go fast for sure with the dog, trailer, & you getting back on the bike again, so a motor with more torque "feel power" at lower speeds will be best. This will take you up steep hills with the dog & trailer too w/o overheating the motor.

As far as bike frames go, I'd recommend a hard-tail with front suspension fork. I would still go with a sturdy/strong step-through frame for you considering your fragile state of health & possible need to jump down/off for balance or slow/stop maneuvering speeds, etc. Or, a steep angled downward top tube could work fine too. I'm sure we'll get a lot of frame suggestions, or you can list what you're considering & we'll comment upon it. Your LBS probably has some excellent ideas too. You do want awesome brakes, so you'll probably want to upgrade the brakes that may come with the bike. I'd stick with 26" wheels, skip 24" unless you find a bike with those & it's perfect feel for you, maybe 20" again if you find a bike with those & it's a perfect fit/feel for you too.

Do you have any steep hills you need to or must climb? How steep? How long?

Your on the right track Rae, and we're here to help you the best way we know how too... :D
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Wed May 16, 2012 8:08 pm

Wish I was an awesome chef...but not really. My husband is though. :)

Thanks for the comments about Siena. Yeah, she's pretty adorable and has a personality to match. Plus, she's smarter than just about anyone I know so she's a pretty amazing combo. We love her to pieces. I'm sure she'd love to play with your buddy, Rocky. She's a working dog...but still loves to play.

Looks like we may have to change plans somewhat. The company we bought from is going against their guarantee and refusing to take the bikes back (unless we pay $300+ in shipping which we can't afford to lose) and wants to keep fixing them. So, we might be stuck with them. However, Steven (my husband) said an alternative might be that if we can get one working but could return the other, he could keep his (it's a good fit for him) and maybe they'd take mine back and we could build up one that will fit me better. So we'll have to see how it goes. AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!

I'm so frustrated by this. It's supposed to be a FUN thing and instead has been tons of stress.

Hopefully, we can turn it around somehow with the help of the great people on this forum and make it fun again. At least I can hope!
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 12:23 am

lifereinspired wrote:Looks like we may have to change plans somewhat. The company we bought from is going against their guarantee and refusing to take the bikes back (unless we pay $300+ in shipping which we can't afford to lose) and wants to keep fixing them. So, we might be stuck with them. However, Steven (my husband) said an alternative might be that if we can get one working but could return the other, he could keep his (it's a good fit for him) and maybe they'd take mine back and we could build up one that will fit me better. So we'll have to see how it goes. AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!


Hi Rae,

Just a thought. If you used a CC or Paypal, then you probably have a claim. The company sent you dead batteries, so that is definitely a defective product. Also, if they claimed a range & it can't do it for you vs the heavier example rider given, then you might be able to also claim it does not do what was promised in writing from their website or papers you received. That might also be a claim of misrepresentation (fraud), which changes the time limits to file a claim. Same thing for the spec on fit that isn't true. You would need an email or written spec from their website proving misrepresentation except for the defective or dead batteries.

If they promised in writing/email to take the bikes back including shipping, then you'd have an opening on that one too.

Anyway, receiving a defective product should give you the ability to receive all your money back. On their website the price does include free shipping, so maybe you have some angle to be able to return free too because of the battery defects or misrepresentations & the included free shipping to you too?

Losing $150 & returning one of the bikes, so you could get a proper fitting bike would be the next best thing, imo.

When did you place your order for these bikes, + date charged on account using CC/Paypal, and did you pay with a CC or Paypal?
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 1:14 am

Found this info:

As we said, you do have purchase protections under the law. If you feel you were ripped off by a merchant, under US Federal law, you must first try to settle the matter by going directly to the merchant. If the company is still in business, you will need to show that you've made a good faith effort to resolve the matter. Keep records of all correspondence with the merchant, including notes on phone conversations and copies of letters.

If you can't resolve your problem with the merchant, write to the credit card company. This letter should be sent within 60 days of when the charge first appeared on your statement. The letter should include your name and account number, along with information about the unsatisfactory purchase (type of item, price, nature of dissatisfaction). You should also describe the steps you've taken to resolve the matter with the merchant. The card issuer will then conduct an investigation into the matter, and you may withhold payment on the unsatisfactory merchandise until the matter is resolved. Until that time, no interest or late fees will be charged.

If the card issuer's investigation reveals that you are right and the merchant is at fault, you will not have to pay for the item or for any finance charges. However, if you've already made payments on the defective merchandise, you won't get the money back, since card issuers can't retrieve money you've already paid.


If you receive an item you think is defective, don't pay the bill until you give the credit card issuer time to investigate. The payment is money that you'll never recover, even if the card issuer agrees that the merchant has sent you unsatisfactory merchandise.
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 2:36 am

deVries wrote:
lifereinspired wrote:Looks like we may have to change plans somewhat. The company we bought from is going against their guarantee and refusing to take the bikes back (unless we pay $300+ in shipping which we can't afford to lose) and wants to keep fixing them. So, we might be stuck with them. However, Steven (my husband) said an alternative might be that if we can get one working but could return the other, he could keep his (it's a good fit for him) and maybe they'd take mine back and we could build up one that will fit me better. So we'll have to see how it goes. AAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!


Hi Rae,

Just a thought. If you used a CC or Paypal, then you probably have a claim. The company sent you dead batteries, so that is definitely a defective product. Also, if they claimed a range & it can't do it for you vs the heavier example rider given, then you might be able to also claim it does not do what was promised in writing from their website or papers you received. That might also be a claim of misrepresentation (fraud), which changes the time limits to file a claim. Same thing for the spec on fit that isn't true. You would need an email or written spec from their website proving misrepresentation except for the defective or dead batteries.

If they promised in writing/email to take the bikes back including shipping, then you'd have an opening on that one too.

Anyway, receiving a defective product should give you the ability to receive all your money back. On their website the price does include free shipping, so maybe you have some angle to be able to return free too because of the battery defects or misrepresentations & the included free shipping to you too?

Losing $150 & returning one of the bikes, so you could get a proper fitting bike would be the next best thing, imo.

When did you place your order for these bikes, + date charged on account using CC/Paypal, and did you pay with a CC or Paypal?


You are a fricking GENIUS! PAYPAL! I just read through all the way and it looks like we'd qualify for a PP dispute. They clearly say on their website and I'm sure you've seen that they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee...(quoted from their website):

"Satisfaction Guarantee
If you are shipped a damaged, defective, incorrect, or an improperly described product, we will refund your entire payment, pay for the shipping back to us, and give you an extra $10 just for the hassle.

We care about our customers, and we want you to love your new electric vehicle, and show it to your friends. So we want you to be happy and satisfied.

If you deem you product to be damaged, defective, incorrect, or improperly described, then send an email to our friendly support staff within seven (7) days of receiving your order. Explain the problem and how you would like it to be solved."

I thought that was pretty easy to interpret, but the owner says what that REALLY means is if there's a problem and something's defective that if it can't be fixed under warranty...THEN they'll take the bikes back. Well, let's face it, you could replace parts under warranty until it's a completely new item! I need to be able to rely upon the bike to get me back. Steven and I had thought about the idea of returning one of them and letting them fix the battery on his. It's a pretty good fit for him so that might be reasonable. I don't know WHY the Paypal idea didn't hit me sooner. I don't know that I have an email with the seat height on it...but that shouldn't matter since they've admitted in writing since both of our bikes had bad batteries that they found they had a bad run on them. Do you think that's enough for Paypal? Bottom line, if we do a reversal via Paypal for multiple defective items...surely Paypal would side with us, right? AND they are "Paypal Verified" (a button on their site). Ahhhhh, you've just given me hope back. I'm really trying to convince myself that I'll be OK riding this bike but I can't get the feeling out of my gut that it's too big...even with the lower seat post that I ordered ($8 from Amazon and free return if it doesn't work out...specifically on that seatpost, go figure!). We thought at least I could try it (in the house) that way and see if I can touch the ground enough to feel secure so it a known yes or no on whether it works instead of a "we could try this..." which is where we've been at.

BTW, I've taken a screen shot of the guarantee...just in case they change it. They DID change their contact info after we had the problem and took their phone number off the website. However, lovin' Google Cache...got a screen shot of that too so we still have their phone number. It's so weird. We bought from Farbike.com but they're having us work directly with the manufacturer which is really confusing. I mean, THEY should be doing the work of getting replacement parts...not having us talk to the other company. It's a strange situation to be in the middle of...and Paypal might be the leverage we need to just get them to honor their policy. Look, if their policy said something different, we'd be in a different situation but it's clear and I'm upset that they aren't standing behind it.

Sorry, end of rant. It's been a long day of emails trying to get a response back and the best they can do is "get one battery shipped out by next Monday 5/21". Since it takes a full week to get here, we're looking at 12 more days of non working bikes. Not cool.

OK, really end of rant now.

Thanks again for the suggestion. Also, great info about the chromoly fork. I thought it had to be standard steel only. I saw a bike that I was considering that had a chromoly fork the other day. I'll try to find it again. (duh, I just looked up chromoly and remembered from my teens that it is a steel alloy.) If we go with the rear engine (you said that easier/better than front?) then I'm assuming that internal hub gearing on a bike is a bad idea, correct? And, would I be better off with a bike with more or less gears (meaning in the range of 7-21...can't imagine having less than 7 is good, right?). I just don't know if you rely more on your bike's gearing or just the "brute force" of the motor. You asked about hills, there will be hills. In town, there's a decent sized hill that has a shorter steeper climb or a long more gradual incline. But there's pretty much no way out of that as we have to cross it just about anywhere we go. Plus, I'm hoping as I get stronger and more comfortable, we can do some road rides on the VT highways which will be hilly.

I've not tried any of these for fit...but style wise (meaning seat to crank geometry) I'm looking at something like: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/collecti ... _lowstep/#
http://www.electrabike.com/Bikes/townie ... kes-ladies (although the fork is a problem on this one and I know that...checking craigslist)
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 3:21 am

BTW, I've taken a screen shot of the guarantee...just in case they change it. They DID change their contact info after we had the problem and took their phone number off the website. However, lovin' Google Cache...got a screen shot of that too so we still have their phone number. It's so weird. We bought from Farbike.com but they're having us work directly with the manufacturer which is really confusing. I mean, THEY should be doing the work of getting replacement parts...not having us talk to the other company. It's a strange situation to be in the middle of...and Paypal might be the leverage we need to just get them to honor their policy. Look, if their policy said something different, we'd be in a different situation but it's clear and I'm upset that they aren't standing behind it.


File the complaint with PP showing those screen shot guarantees with Free Return Shipping +$10. If the guarantee is still up, then call PP & show the Customer Service Rep the webpage w/guarantee too for documentation purposes. Yeah, very sharp on your part about Google Cache too. You could show the PP rep what the info was back when you ordered & paid too. :twisted:
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 3:35 am

Satisfaction Guarantee

If you are shipped a damaged, defective, incorrect, or an improperly described product, we will refund your entire payment, pay for the shipping back to us, and give you an extra $10 just for the hassle.

We care about our customers, and we want you to love your new electric vehicle, and show it to your friends. So we want you to be happy and satisfied.


IMO, they are bound by this statement too, shown above, whether or not they state the 7 day notificaton or not later down the page. It seems they must *also* be bound by the above statement too. They did *not* footnote -or- reference to the other statement to see the "fine print" or 7 day notification details, right? Yep, they just make a blanket statement as follows, period... "Satisfaction Guarantee

If you are shipped a damaged, defective, incorrect, or an improperly described product, we will refund your entire payment, pay for the shipping back to us, and give you an extra $10 just for the hassle.

We care about our customers, and we want you to love your new electric vehicle, and show it to your friends. So we want you to be happy and satisfied."
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 3:52 am

Also, great info about the chromoly fork. I thought it had to be standard steel only. I saw a bike that I was considering that had a chromoly fork the other day. I'll try to find it again. (duh, I just looked up chromoly and remembered from my teens that it is a steel alloy.) If we go with the rear engine (you said that easier/better than front?) then I'm assuming that internal hub gearing on a bike is a bad idea, correct? And, would I be better off with a bike with more or less gears (meaning in the range of 7-21...can't imagine having less than 7 is good, right?). I just don't know if you rely more on your bike's gearing or just the "brute force" of the motor. You asked about hills, there will be hills. In town, there's a decent sized hill that has a shorter steeper climb or a long more gradual incline. But there's pretty much no way out of that as we have to cross it just about anywhere we go.


The chromoly applies both to the *frame* & sometimes fork too. Many older bike frames are made of chromoly that includes both the frame & fork, but *the frame* material is the main thing not the fork IF you have the motor in the rear. An ideal USED (or new) bike would be: Hard tail. Chromoly FRAME. Front *Suspension* Fork (not a "solid" shockless chromoly front-fork -that's only needed for a front wheel mounted motor).

Because you are pulling a trailer & 85-lb dog, you can not or should not use a front wheel mounted motor. Therefore, you can have a front fork that has shock absorbing suspension too! That gives you a better ride than a non-suspension "solid" fork.
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 5:13 am

Here is an awesome Chromoly Frame... it's about the best one I know of for an eBike, but it's not a step-through. Still, you should seriously consider this. Avoids lots of other hassles issues/problems with installing a rear motor that you might have on other bikes too.

$430 14" Free Shipping

http://www.upgradecycle.com/surly-troll-77759.html

A 14" Troll Frame by Surly... you can pick-up a good deal off ebay on these sometimes, imo, barely used or like new. (Unfortunately it's bike riding season now!)

Or, buy the frame cheap online & have your LBS build it with exact components to fit you. Or, get a complete bike from somewhere online. It has some trailer attachments you might be able to use too. :idea:

What is your inseam length?

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/troll

Though the Troll’s geometry is that of a 26"-wheeled mountain bike, it’s unlike most mountain bikes you’ll find on your local bike shop floor. It has ample clearance for 28/38/50t mountain-triple chainrings and room for 26 x 2.7" tires. The gusseted front triangle, with its sloping toptube, provides generous standover clearance even when running high-volume rubber.

Build it with a 100mm suspension-corrected fork, or roll the 4130 CroMoly Troll fork. The stock fork is spec’d with canti pivots, disc mounts, low- and mid-blade rack bosses and fender eyelets. Run a rack, fender and disc at the same time.

The Troll frame features horizontal rear-loading dropouts with a derailleur hanger, disc caliper mounting slots, plus rack and fender bosses. There’s a dedicated area for anchoring a Rohloff hub OEM2 axle plate, and we’ve included threaded M10 x 1mm holes for installing Surly trailer-mounting nuts or B.O.B. Nutz. The dropout design allows the simultaneous use of a rack, fender and disc brake. We include canti pivots, too. Options, options, options. Marcia, Marcia, Marcia.

Use it as a mountain bike, cruiser, commuter or touring rig. Make it your go-to utility tractor. Try out different tires and handlebars. Add some racks, build it with gears, or strip it down to a singlespeed drivetrain. Take it camping, ride it to the grocery store or session on your favorite single-track. Build it up, ride it for a while, then reinvent it.

Like many of our models, the Troll is available as a frameset or as a complete bike.

Troll.jpg
Surly Troll 14" for Small Person
Troll.jpg (30.65 KiB) Viewed 152 times
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 6:04 am

Because of the dog & trailer you have limitations about what you can do...

A) You could build a bike using that Surly frame as a base. Cheapest is to buy another USED bike with good components on it that could be switched over to fit the Surly Troll frame. Sometimes the LBS store can get you a good deal on components that are used from a bike or "old" but "like new" and kept at the shop as spares or old stock, etc.

B) Otherwise, you'll need to buy used, lots of possibilities, but it is a hassle to search around & try-out, etc.

C) Or, go to LBS stores to find a good fit & complete bike you like, THEN post-up the bike info here so we can check it out too.

D) Buying a complete bike online is not so good, because it might not fit you again & then have issues with it too!

E) I would not recommend buying a ready made eBike UNLESS you can get it in a very small frame size to fit YOU. Most "retail" eBikes are probably one size fits all, so you don't want to be doing that online anymore, again, UNLESS you can get it with the extra small frame size to fit YOU.

F)
I've not tried any of these for fit...but style wise (meaning seat to crank geometry) I'm looking at something like: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/collecti ... _lowstep/#
http://www.electrabike.com/Bikes/townie ... kes-ladies (although the fork is a problem on this one and I know that...checking craigsli


I think you need a steel or preferably a chromoly frame because of trailer & dog. These aluminum frames rear drop-outs will not be good for your application, IMO. Steel or chromoly it is, imo. :idea:

Please note there are several posts above this one to study your options too! :D
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 4:09 pm

OK, I realize that this is kinda crazy because it still has a aluminum frame but it's beefy and a different design. Is it impossible or a maybe?? http://www.schwinnbikes.com/bikes/urban ... ding-14668
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 4:10 pm

Oh, and if this question was answered and missed by me, please let me know but what about gearing? External vs internal, correct? Will more gears equate to easier riding with the motor (ie will 21 really be better than 7 with a good motor)?
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 4:13 pm

Sorry for the several questions but...I've found some lower end bikes that therefore use a full steel frame. Is that good for my purposes (needing a steel bike) or stupid because it's a low end bike (even if I have to upgrade some of the components).
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 4:20 pm

Obviously, this one would need several upgrades...but it IS a steel frame and I've also found several other 26" cruiser style bikes that are steel, not expensive and could be upgraded...

http://www.schwinnbikes.com/bikes/bike- ... eed#/specs

Just please let me know if I've gone completely insane with this line of looking. I'm going to go to a couple of LBS's hopefully tomorrow and just get the feel of a few frames so I know sizing, how I feel riding a 20" vs 26" etc. I've read that once people start riding 20" they absolutely love it. But that's just other opinions...not fact. :)
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 4:51 pm

lifereinspired wrote:OK, I realize that this is kinda crazy because it still has a aluminum frame but it's beefy and a different design. Is it impossible or a maybe?? http://www.schwinnbikes.com/bikes/urban ... ding-14668


You can get a Dahon brand in chromoly that has 20" wheels too. Looks about the same as the Urban. Find these used on ebay too. I can't see the rear drop-outs to know the shape or strength on this Urban, so I have "to pass" & say no for now. Plus, it may be more tricky connecting a strong trailer for an 85-lb dog to the rear end of that frame. You would need to know ahead of time how the trailer can connect to that type of frame.
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 5:06 pm

lifereinspired wrote:Oh, and if this question was answered and missed by me, please let me know but what about gearing? External vs internal, correct? Will more gears equate to easier riding with the motor (ie will 21 really be better than 7 with a good motor)?


Because a rear motor is also the hub too, there is no internal gearing possible. The rear motor will have its own sprocket set, which is usually either a 6 or 7 speed sprocket. So 2-3 chainrings up front on the crankset get you a 12, 14, 18, or 21 speed bike. With the motor all you'll need is a 12 or 14 speed bike, and that will be fine for the speeds you'll be going. But if the bike comes with 3 front chain rings, then that's just fine too. :D

Later, if you want to pedal more or something doesn't feel right, then you can always change those gears to get what you need.
Last edited by deVries on Thu May 17, 2012 11:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby deVries » Thu May 17, 2012 5:17 pm

lifereinspired wrote:Sorry for the several questions but...I've found some lower end bikes that therefore use a full steel frame. Is that good for my purposes (needing a steel bike) or stupid because it's a low end bike (even if I have to upgrade some of the components).


It's true that if you get a cheaper steel bike that it should be made with hi-tensile strength steel, AND, yes, the components may have to be upgraded too. A chromoly frame should be first choice if possible.

That Surly Troll frame would allow you to use smaller diameter tires too. Definitely 24" and maybe 20" too. You should be able to easily reach the ground & maybe flat-foot it too. What is your inseam length???
:?:

Also, I would avoid using a folding bike, since you will be using a trailer with heavy dog. You want a solid strong frame, so I personally would not choose a folder for this application, for sure. :idea: :twisted:
Last edited by deVries on Thu May 17, 2012 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 5:30 pm

I'll remeasure again later (w/ husband's help) but when I measured before for bike frames, it was around 29" give or take a tiny bit. My idea would be smaller manageable frame that's easy to setup over - so low step, women's, really low top tube etc. I don't really care about the folding feature of the Dahons but I think I might like the idea of the smaller wheels (I was reading an interesting article that I accidentally stumbled across on LiveStrong: http://www.livestrong.com/article/14202 ... s-bicycle/). I don't want to go uber fast and I thought that I read that a motor on a 20" wheel will give more low end power. Am I completely backwards on that theory? Still looking for Chromoly frames and apparently Dahon and others make 20" compatible frames. How low would the stepover height be with that Surly frame if we went with 20" tires?
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 5:33 pm

We've already decided that we're going to an LBS tomorrow so I can "try on" some frames and wheel sizes. At least I can get an idea of what works best and where I'm most comfortable with bike control, etc. I'm excited about it!
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 5:43 pm

This is one of the primary dog trailers I'm considering for price/features/safety. http://www.thedogoutdoors.com/dog-bicyc ... about.html
Sometimes Amazon.com has it a little cheaper and I'd consider getting it from them for easy returns if needed. Can more than handle Siena's 70lbs and attaches to the left side of the back axle. There are videos on that page showing the connections if that's helpful for knowing compatibility with the motor. :)
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 6:29 pm

Calculating the standover height of the Surly troll w/ the standard 26" wheels will be 28.1" which is just going to me too much for me to manage. If the 20" wheels are a possibility, then we're talking about a possibility...:)
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 6:36 pm

Calculating the standover height of the Surly troll w/ the standard 26" wheels will be 28.1" which is just going to me too much for me to manage. If the 20" wheels are a possibility, then we're talking about a possibility...:)
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Re: Direct drive or geared?

Postby lifereinspired » Thu May 17, 2012 8:07 pm

A cromoly 20"! Yay!

http://www.dahon.com/bikes/2011/boardwalk-d7

I might find others too...apparently all the Dahon steel is chromoly. :D

http://www.amazon.com/Dahon-Speed-D7/dp/B005TZ9S22
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