1st Ebike Conversion Need Advice

[stypherfire]

So from what i can tell so far, if i get the above bike withe a battery + motor kit it will cost somewhat like below.

Bike: ~500 (Trek.ca)
Battery/charger 52V 11.5Ah triangle A123 Pack ~600 /wo Shipping (emissions-free.com)
Kit: Rear 26 inch Crystalyte HS35 Kit /w Crystalyte Sensorless 25A model upgrade ~$700(From ebike.ca)
Total: $1800 or so without battery shipping

Bike: ~500 (Trek.ca)
Batter/charger from Ping Battery: $803 (Pingbattery.com)
Kit: Rear 26 inch Crystalyte HS35 Kit ~$661(From ebike.ca)
Total: $1964

Ouchies XD well you get what you pay for i hope! Anyone got a better suggestion then this setup? I believe that the ping battery one will have longer range but a bit lower speed compared to the A123 which will have higher speeds but lower range. Advantages of the a123 is that they can be setup on the triangular part of a bike frame as well as being lighter and the pingbattery will last longer with a better recharge system however must most likely be mounted on the back rack (which i have)
If any of this is wrong please correct me =)

Also know i realized there is a very of this bike with disc breaks already! i will definitely get that. was going to buy seperate XD. So add $50 to each of those prices..

[wesnewell]

Bike with steel frame. Take your pick. Either will work fine.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Roadmaster-Gr ... e/15711164
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schwinn-Link- ... e/16913456
REAR 901 48v 1000W GM motor kit. $300.
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/categories/PR ... r/26-Inch/
6 of these for 10ah 12s Lipo. ~$150. Can fit up to 12 in the frame triangle of either bike. Can convert to 24s in seconds.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ouse_.html
Misc wire /connectors/etc. $20.
Total cost under $600. Will get you about 30km range per charge. 9,000-30,000km battery life based on 300=1000 cycles.

Lithium balance charger. $30 and up one time cost if you don't already have one. Suggest this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HYPERION-EOS-14 ... 0738001525

[dogman]

For starters, He's in Canada. That's why I didn't find some of the bikes USA walmart has avaliable to him. So I didn't suggest a genesis for example.

And you won't find this dumshit recomending Hobby King lipo to noobs. Not unless they have experience with em before, or have a phd mind. Besides, the lifepo4 is simply more convenient for commuting when you charge at work.

Nothing wrong with that Trek, or any similar type of frame. Disk will be nice, but far from mandatory at 30 mph. Well, in the rain mandatory. But otherwise rim brakes will be ok for a commuter.

Ping will go the same speed as the A123. Both are going to be 16 cell groups of lifepo4. Both will operate at about 48-56v.

But here's why the A123 battery. For the amps. An Hs motor will reach a decent speed on 20 amps, but it will take awhile to get there. But run it on 35 amps, and ZING! yer going 30. Run a 35 amp controller on a ping, and it will murder it.

My recomendation remains, Hs motor, 35 amp controller, Cellman triangle battery. If you go with the pingbattery for more range, (always good), then you would be better off with a 9 continent 2807 for the motor, and 20 or 25 amp controller. you'd lose a few mph, but still have plenty of speed for your needs with 27 mph.

I've got about 6000 miles of commuting on that very setup, ping, 20 amps, 2807. Works great, and it's fast enough to get you there quick for a bike. Too fast for a multi use trail anyway. Really, you should aim for slower, and get a 2808 for the trail.

[TylerDurden]

Newb + lipo + walljunk bike = failbomb.

Dogman FTW.

[john7700]

I don't know what ping you are specking for $803. What would do you well would be a 48V 15AH for around $600 including shipping.

Yes, the disk break up grade for that model is what I was saying.

Disk will be nice, but far from mandatory at 30 mph. Well, in the rain mandatory. But otherwise rim brakes will be ok for a commuter.

Wet rims are merely scary, icy rims can be deadly. Not that you would know about ice.

[wesnewell]

You guys must think everyone is an idiot. I bought rc lipo after about a week on old sla batts. It's not rocket science. I went with rc lipo because 1) it's cheaper, 2) it's totally configurable, 3) it's lighter, 4) it's smaller than lifepo4, and 5) it's high C rating takes all the worry about overloading it out of the question. The only reason I used sla was because I had them already. I've never had a problem with rc lipo, and used it on all 4 bikes I built in the last 1.3 years. In the time I've been on this forum, I've read of lots of lifepo4 pack failures, but only a few rc lipo failures. And many of the lifepo4 failures were at less than 3 years. Some under a year. Lifepo4, no thanks. I'll wait5 for something cheaper and better and stay with rc lipo til then. And I wouldn't even consider an HS crystalite motor. The forum is full of people with problems with them, I'd buy a GM or 9C first.

[john7700]

Newb + lipo + walljunk bike = failbomb.

Dogman FTW.

Despite Wenswells success, this it the result I have seen here most often. Learn with Life and move up if you dig the hobby.

[Drunkskunk]

+2 for dogman's sugestions.

The trek 820 is a perfect starting bike. The 3500 is just a fancier version of the bike. More perfect? Might be worth the $50 upgrade, but the motors you have expressed intrest in are not realy off road motors, so the added striength of the 3500 over the 820 is unneeded. Spend it on a front disk brake. The rear is fine as a rim brake and easier to add a rear motor with a rim brake.

But I'd suggest a used 820 or 3500 from craigslist. No point paying for new when it will never be used as new.

[Chalo]

The trek 820 is a perfect starting bike. The 3500 is just a fancier version of the bike. More perfect? Might be worth the $50 upgrade, but the motors you have expressed intrest in are not realy off road motors, so the added striength of the 3500 over the 820 is unneeded. Spend it on a front disk brake. The rear is fine as a rim brake and easier to add a rear motor with a rim brake.

But I'd suggest a used 820 or 3500 from craigslist. No point paying for new when it will never be used as new.

Three digit Treks have steel frames; four digit Treks use other materials (aluminum or plastic). For various reasons-- toughness, repairability, ability to add features by welding or brazing-- a steel frame is a better choice for a powered bike conversion.

A cheap disc brake (cheaper than Avid BB7) is no match for a decent rim brake of the same cost. So if you can only justify spending say $20 to $50 on a brake, the linear pull will be a better brake. I have tried a lot of sub $50 discs; some are totally useless (e.g. Promax) while some are merely bad (e.g. Tektro). None of them can touch a $20 V-brake with a $12 set of Kool Stop pads-- not even close.

If you must have discs, budget $60-90 per wheel for Avid BB7s, or a lot more for effective but needlessly complicated hydraulic discs. Otherwise you're just wasting your money and effort. But if your wheels aren't already compatible with discs and you have to replace those too, there are a lot of other better ways to spend on upgrades.

Chalo

[stypherfire]

Just to be fair to everyone since they took the time and effort to help me out which i appreciate! i wanted to get a good understanding of what is the best overall battery and motor for my 1st bike.

Motor's i think i have 3 basic choices.

Rear 26 inch Crystalyte HS35 Kit
http://ebike.ca/store/store_nc.php
I really can't say anything as to the reliability of the motors as i have no experience.
Total: $620 + $41.16 shipping = $661.16

26 Inch Rear PRO 901 Conversion Kit
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/26-I ... n-Kit.html
Once again can't say much. Getting mix reviews on this site about this supplier but mostly about older service. I can't judge so yea... but shipping is dam cheap which is great but wary at the Same Time...
Total: $327.70 + S20.82 Shipping = $351.23

BTW i found a trek 4500 used for $250. Looks to be in good condition. Pretty good for the price. If i can't get this i will move back down to the 820 as suggested with disc break upgrades.
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/bik/3133693051.html

As to the battery issue there appears to be now 3 different choices:

Turnigy 5000mAh 4S1P 14.8v 20C hardcase pack x 6
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ouse_.html
So i have a bit of background in electrical stuff as i tinker with solar panels alot and i have experience in sodering/ fabrication for frames and what not. Base on my understanding of how this works with seperate packs is that we will need to wire 2 sets of 3 in parallel and then wire the 2 sets in series... (grade 12 physics comming back slowly T_T..) this will provide 44.4 Volts while producing at 15 amphres.They appear lighter and more configurable as they are 3.2 KG+whatever is added to it. Also i know lipo's have a BAS to control recharging and usage to prevent batteries from dieing due to overdrainage of power etc etc. How could i go about this for the Turnigy ones... do i need to buy a bas? Also i would need a charger for this so not sure which one and how much i would need to spend.Also if possible can i get the following?
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36414
Also proballya good idea to buy the above kit to simplify using the lipo hobby kings.. would make battery swaping a breeze
Max Range:
Avg Speed:
Life of Battery:
Total: $22.37 x 6 = $134.22 + 36.71 shipping = $170.93 + charger? + Controller Upgrade??

48V 20AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack (suggested by Dogman)
http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the- ... ate/Detail
So from what i can tell these are suppose to be the more reliable types of battery and are very noob friendly. That is great to hear however it is a bit expensive and weighs 9.90 KG and are quite bulky. This pack includes a charger which is a plus. Also like plug and play so that is also a plus. They have apprently longer life cycles then most other batteries and appear to be more relient. Once again if possible can i know the following?
Max Range:
Avg Speed:
Life of Battery:
Total: $658 + $145 shipping = $803

52V 11.5Ah triangle A123 Pack
http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i29.html
Prepacked to fit well in body of bike frame. Makes me go zoom. Weight not given so hard to tell. Once again need.
Max Range:
Avg Speed:
Life of Battery:
Total: $600 + XX Shipping + Controller upgrade??? = ???

[gua_rana]

The 16S 5P triangle pack weighs 6,9 kg. Range depends highly on the speed you are travelling at. I made this with an online calculator to help see the power required for different speeds. Ebikes.ca simulator makes also the same thing (and a lot more) once you fill in the right information. I made another pic for myself with it.

[wesnewell]

If that Trek is not steel dropouts I wouldn't use it unless you want to buy/build some torque arms/plates.
Follow this to build a 12s2p 44.4V lipo pack using 4s packs.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41594#p608552
Max speed about 28mph.
Range about 20 miles @20mph.
Battery life could vary from 1 cycle to 1000 cycles depending on you. Properly cared for, expect 300-1000 cycles.
You could wire it as a 24s pack and get over 40mph, but you'd need a new controller for about $50.
As a 44.4V pack it will support up to 200A. As an 88.8V pack, 100A.
No sure what a BAS is, but you don't want or need one of them or a bms either.
You do need a charger. That can cost from $30 up. Best imo is the Hyperion 1420i. $130 shipped on ebay, and you need a 24v power source for it.
And you won't need a controller upgrade unless you want to run higher voltages. LVC of the stock 48V controller will keep you from over discharging the pack.

I'll let the lifepo4 fans feed you full of crap about them. IMO, rc lipo is the most reliable for one reason. It won't come with a BMS, and you don't want one.

[dogman]

Sorry if I made an assumption that you couldn't handle lipo. Older members here will remember Morph for example. Point is, till you give us the info that makes us sure, we hesitate to recomend lipo.

But even for geniuses, I tend to not recomend lipo for commuting because a bms protected lifepo4 pack is simply longer lasting and more convenient to charge when you are doing 1 or 2 cycles daily. The exception is really short commutes, where you can buy a battery so small it's lots cheaper.

Re the ping. A 20 ah ping would be longer range, but they are just big enough and just heavy enough to be too hard to carry on a bike. It won't fit in the triangle of most bikes. 48v 15 ah is the size I'd recomend. Or a 36v 20 ah, if you wanted less speed. Both have the same 45 cells.

Wes and I disagree on the bikes a bit too. Grins universal rear torque arms should be sufficient if you get an aluminum frame bike. If you run a bigger controller, you'd need them anyway, even on a steel bike. So what's the diff? You need at least one torque controll device for a steel bike, no big deal to add one more for higher power or for alloy frame.

Re the brakes. Good v brakes are ok unless you are hardcore, as in would ride in wet icy conditions. Call me a puss, but my commute is just too long to want to ride it in crappy weather. I would only lose a few days a year anyway, in my climate. Once you are riding wet, then even crap mechanical disk is better for sure. Easy to add disk to the front of many bikes though, lots of rim brake forks have the mounts for disk front brakes made easy.

Lastly, nothing really wrong with economizing on the motor kit, just bear in mind one of the big savings is you don't get a Cycleanalyst. Just don't go too cheap on a battery, and get a crappy ebay bargian than never gives the full capacity from day one.

Plugging cellman one more time, have you looked at his muxus direct drive kit? There's a good motor at a good price for sure. Or his Mac motors have lots of fans, the fast one very fast on 48v.

[stypherfire]

So i have just picked up the bike from craigslist and i must say the thing is in pretty damn good condition. Other then normal age stuff, it works well. Breaks are working great, suspension is good, gear shift good. I think i am going to get new pedals as these are a bit small and old. Bike has preset up break pad holes on both back and front making it perfect for the mechanical breaks even though the v breaks are pretty good. For 250 i am pretty happy. Bike was originally worth $700 so this is a win i think. Hopefully dogman is closer to being right then wes (no offense XD) and just adding in torque arms will suffice.

Now to update on the comments on my last full post.

I have found that my full ride to work is less then 9km total 1 way. (gps path tracking + riding in hot sun zzz) So i would probably look at 11 - 12 KM range.
The Cycleanalyst sounds a really good thing to have however is it compatible with emission-free's Triangular pack or the 6 RC Lipo Battery Pack?

So i think i have been getting confused a bit of how the motors work. The Mac 500w Rear Kit(speed) seems to be more appear now that i read a bit more. I thought that because it was a 36V motor (compared to 48V), i wouldn't get the speed or torque i wanted. but reading a bit further it sounds like with the triangular battery plus the Mac 500W kit will give me a good 50 Kph.(i think emmission-free is cellman which dogman was refering to)
With the triangular kit do i need to get a better controller or is the kit one good enough?
It seems like This kit would be the easiest for me in terms of a 1st conversion and will last me a good long while. I don't intend to ride in or rain or bad weather. Maybe winter but only with light snow and not slush.

Ill take wes's advice on not getting the Crystalyte motor kit as it is a bit more expensive as well. However i am still interested in the lipo battery set up as i said i have some experience in fabrication and think i could make it blend in well with the bike frame if given the chance. There is also no reason why i can't just start off with a more simple battery and upgrade to lipo if i find i need it or if i find it better.

So currently i am basically looking at
Mac 500w Rear Kit(speed)
52V 11.5Ah triangle A123 Pack
Direct Plug-in Cycle Analyst with Speedometer Cable (if compatible)
GRIN Universal Rear Torque Arm, thick 1/4 inch stainless steel.
IRFB4110 (100V fets, up to 72V battery pack) upgrade for Controller Mac 500W Rear Kit

I sent a email to cellman??? at emmissions-free to see how much they stuff from him will cost. I will update you in a bit

[dogman]

Well now you got my approval. I'm just not a fan of the HS motors as yet. The reports of wires getting cut at the axle turned me right off of that design. But Grin did a modification on the ones they sell I believe.

But lots of folks here are lovin thier fast Mac motors from emissions free. At 48v, they will fly. Ask others for which winding you should get for the speed you want when running 48v. Again, 50 kph really needed? You'll piss off everybody on those trails at 50 kph for sure. But when the trails are empty, yahoo!

I'm fuzzy too, on which CA to get. Cellman will tell you if you are getting a DP CA plug or not. I kinda prefer the stand alone CA myself, so as to run with anything in the future. You won't need the current limiting feature with an A123 pack so no big deal if you can't do the dp.

The bike looks fine, if you've saved enough on the price, get two of the universal rear torque arms from Grin, once they get back in stock. Or get some 1/4 " steel, and just cut your own if you are handy with a drill and a file. Not really so hard.

Only thing about going this route, is you will have to wait a bit for the backlog at emmissions free to get it shipped. He gets swamped a lot, and it's summer.

[stypherfire]

Okay so i got a response from cellman for the stuff i wanted and it is a difficult to understand.

At the moment there are some issues with the current supply of A123 26650
cells. This is due to the transition from the current cell type to the new
2.5Ah version that will be available in a few months. I do not know when I
will have more A123 26650 cells, it could be a few weeks, it could be
months. I do currently have A123 20Ah cells and can offer packs made from
these. I can forward info if you are interested. I may soon have some
standard LiFePO4 cells, and I could offer a triangle pack from these, it is
not yet confirmed as yet. These packs would not have the same discharge rate
as the A123 cells, but they will be cheaper.

Here's a quote for the kit only shipped to Canada:

Mac High Power Kit 1 26", Upgraded Mac ?T, 12 fet 3077, half
twist, ebrakes 400 400

Total Parts Cost = 400 USD

Shipping: Parcel 1 Parcel 2
EMS 156 USD EMS 0 USD
Airmail 113 USD Airmail 0 USD
SAL 81 USD SAL 0 USD

NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT SEND USD, IT IS ONLY THERE FOR INFO

I WILL SEND A REQUEST FOR THE HK$ AMOUNT

Total Cost inc. PP (3.4%)
EMS 575 USD equivalent to 4468 HK$
Airmail 531 USD equivalent to 4122 HK$
SAL 497 USD equivalent to 3865 HK$


There are a few options/additional items that may interest you on the Mac
kits, as listed below (copy and paste, apologies if not applicable):
- rim size and type (see attached).
- motor winding (motor speed) required, 12T (200rpm loaded at 36V),
10T (250rpm), 8T (320rpm), new 7T (approx 340rpm) and 6T (390rpm) available,
see product listing for typical speeds you can expect.
- controller choices are; 6 fet 25A (standard with Torque kit), 9 fet
30A (Speed Kit) and 12 fet 40A (High Power Kit). Available with 75V IRFB3077
fets for 36-48V, 60V max (standard option) and also 100V IRFB4110 mosfets
for 36-72V packs, 90V max voltage (IRFB4110 equipped controllers are
slightly more expensive than the IRFB3077 equivalent).
- EB3XX Infineon Controller Programming cable - 10USD. All Infineon
EB3xx controllers supplied with Mac kits are programmable with this cable.
- throttle type, full or half twist with integrated 3 speed and cruise
at standard price or thumb type (separate 3 speed switch) is an additional
+5USD.
- throttles are cheap, they are plug and play with the supplied
controllers and include 3 speed and cruise. Shipping on small parcels is
expensive. A spare throttle may save some inconvenience and cost at a later
date.
- phase wire upgrade to dual 2mm2 (equivalent to almost 11AWG),
standard is single 2mm2 (14AWG) for each phase. 15USD upgrade fee, currently
available on all winding options (all 6T and 7T now come with upgrade as
standard). Temperature sensor with linear DC voltage output proportional to
motor temperature is also fitted on the upgraded motors, 1V = 100degC, 1.5V
= 150degC.
- Spare gears (30USD) or clutch (25USD).
- DNP 11T 7 (20USD) and 8 Speed (23USD) are available. 7S is a direct
fit to the Mac rear, 8S requires a spacer.
- Cycle Analyst CA-LDS, the latest correct type for a geared hub
motor, 130USD, see http://www.ebike.ca/drainbrain.shtml for more info.
- Ebike tester - 20USD
- DCDC (component only), 3A OP, adjustable DC out, max 48V pack- 10USD


Please complete the attached form if you want to proceed, please include
details such as wheel rim, controller type (number of fets, 3077 or 4110
type), throttle type and any other extras you require.

Thanks
Paul

[BATTERY ISSUE]
So from my understanding the batter batteries that they use for the triangular battery (A123 26650), he won't be able to provide them for a while.
The other one he has the A123 20ah cells appear to be a cheaper cell which will won't give me enough speed due to the lower discharge rate.
Because of this i think i will need to use the rc lipo's to get what i want without waiting up to a month. Let me know how i should approach this part of the issue.

The rest is basically details which i need to include.

Rim Size:
26 Inches diameter x 2.1 inches wide

Winding:
12T (200rpm loaded at 36V)
10T (250rpm)
8T (320rpm)
new 7T (approx 340rpm)
6T (390rpm)

Controller:
6 fet 25A (standard with Torque kit)
9 fet 30A (Speed Kit)
12 fet 40A (High Power Kit).
Available with 75V IRFB3077 fets for 36-48V
60V max (standard option)
100V IRFB4110 mosfets
36-72V packs, 90V max voltage

Upgrade Options
EB3XX Infineon Controller Programming cable - 10USD

Phase wire upgrade to dual 2mm2 (equivalent to almost 11AWG),
standard is single 2mm2 (14AWG) for each phase. 15USD upgrade fee, currently
available on all winding options (all 6T and 7T now come with upgrade as
standard). Temperature sensor with linear DC voltage output proportional to
motor temperature is also fitted on the upgraded motors, 1V = 100degC, 1.5V
= 150degC.
No idea what the above is. Sounds like a higher current wire upgrade or something do i need this?

Spare gears (30USD) or clutch (25USD
Do i need this?

DNP 11T 7 (20USD) and 8 Speed (23USD) are available. 7S is a direct
fit to the Mac rear, 8S requires a spacer.
So confused what this is

Ebike tester - 20USD
Le Shock..

DCDC (component only), 3A OP, adjustable DC out, max 48V pack- 10USD

Throttle
thumb type (separate 3 speed switch)

Cycle Analyst
Cycle Analyst CA-LDS, the latest correct type for a geared hub
motor, 130USD, see http://www.ebike.ca/drainbrain.shtml for more info.

So basically i am confused on each part with multiple items and the ones that one list one i am sure is what i want. ie i want thumb type throttle however confused on motor winding because there are multiple selections. Also the optional stuff i would like peoples opinion on if possible.

[wesnewell]

Well, you've already seen my recommendations.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41869&start=30#p613367
So buy from China, pay more, wait however long, or take my recommendations. Up to you. It's your time and money.

[Chalo]

Well, you've already seen my recommendations.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41869&start=30#p613367
So buy from China, pay more, wait however long, or take my recommendations. Up to you. It's your time and money.

You recommended department store trash bikes. So you discredited your own advice right up front!

[dogman]

Since you want 32 mph you will want to pick from the faster end of the selections. 6 t being the really fast one.

If you will go with a Hobby King RC lipo battery, then the easiest set up for beginners is 4, 6s 5,000 mha packs. Translation, 44v, 10 ah. Pretty simple to manage and charge with just 4 bricks of lipo.

But you can't put this stuff on charge and go to sleep. You might find charging at work not worth the risk. The 36v 20 ah pack from cellman will be enough power for a Mac, with a 9 fet 30 amp controller. It would only be discharging at 1.5c at 30 amps. I still tend to recomend that over the lipo if it will fit inside the bikes triangle space.

Not sure what the speeds of the various Mac winding are at 36v. The data is here, but which thread I'm not so sure. I think somwhere on cellmans site there is a chart, but I really don't know if that is butt on the bike speeds or no load speeds.

[john7700]

What Dogman said only get the 48v 15ah. You can dial it down with the CA for distance but if you don't have it, you can't crank it open for more performance. You should get ~5mph more out of the 48. With a real fast wind motor, you should get around 30mph. I bought the 36/20 and if I had it to do again, I would go 48/15. They are the same physical size.

[wesnewell]

Well, you've already seen my recommendations.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41869&start=30#p613367
So buy from China, pay more, wait however long, or take my recommendations. Up to you. It's your time and money.

You recommended department store trash bikes. So you discredited your own advice right up front!

Well, he's already bought a bike, so it's a mute point. But keep on plugging those overrated overpriced bike shop bikes. I'm sure a lot of people are stupid enough to believe all the hype and you'll get more business for your bike shop. Or you might just piss off everyone so much that you lose business. I don't know and really don't care. I have no investment in either. But wait, you do. So everyone should buy from the snake oil salesman promoting his own cause.

[Chalo]

Well, you've already seen my recommendations.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41869&start=30#p613367
So buy from China, pay more, wait however long, or take my recommendations. Up to you. It's your time and money.

You recommended department store trash bikes. So you discredited your own advice right up front!

Well, he's already bought a bike, so it's a mute point. But keep on plugging those overrated overpriced bike shop bikes. I'm sure a lot of people are stupid enough to believe all the hype and you'll get more business for your bike shop. Or you might just piss off everyone so much that you lose business. I don't know and really don't care. I have no investment in either. But wait, you do. So everyone should buy from the snake oil salesman promoting his own cause.

My shop's revenue is something like 90% parts and service. But it is true we only sell bikes we can stand behind. And we are one of the shops that will work on department store junk. So I know very well what I am talking about!

Latest news in the department store bike front at my shop: One of my regular customers, a broke loser with poor hygiene, recently had his basic sub-$100 department store bike stolen. Since that bike had been nothing but trouble and expense to him, I asked him what he was going to do about it-- as an opportunity to send him to the local community bike shop for a used non-trash bike. It turns out he'd already bought another, more gimmicky used department store monstrosity from a neighbor. And of course, it came with major problems from the get-go that he had to deal with that day (spending money he could ill afford, and stinking up my shop for about three hours as he worked on it in the customer stand).

After three or four days, he'd reached his limit of patience with his "new" department store suspension crapheap, and he traded it and ten bucks to a crackhead for another, simpler bike.

It was his old bike, with a new rattle can paint job! I would have taken a moment to share his wonderment, but I wanted him out of the shop because he smelled bad.

Chalo

[stypherfire]

So this convo has taken a turn for the worse. Lets not start bashing others! we all suppose to be friendly.

So To get this back onto the right path, i have tried an amalgamation of different ideas suggested by others after a bit of research.

Mac 500W Motor Rear Kit
26" Rims
6T @ 390 RPMS winding
9 fet 30A Controller

Battery
Turnigy 5000mAh 4S1P 14.8v 20C hardcase pack x 6
Complete Hobby King Lipo Protection Kit fro Methtek
I have been reading up on his hobbyking lipo connectors and stuff. It appears to be exactly what i need to make the battery system work. After reading his entire manual and everything he has posted, connecting these batteries doesn't seem too hard, especially with the HVC breaker there to prevent over charging. Low energy drain compared to a BMS sounds good as well. I just don't know what those balancer jumpers are for as i have no idea what a balancer is. Will this be okay if i use 2 lipos per board over 3 boards? Should be 44.4V with 15 Ah

Throttle
thumb type (separate 3 speed switch)

Cycle Analyst
Cycle Analyst CA-LDS

GRIN Universal Rear Torque Arm, thick 1/4 inch stainless steel.

Please let me know if this will work or if i am building a time bomb for my self XD

[dogman]

That would be a good way to do it. (the battery) OK to charge a time bomb at work? Even with the best charging system the potential is still there.

You will need a power supply to charge the battery, BMS battery lithium chargers seem to be the favored route lately. You get them set to your choice of endpoint voltage. If you charge 12s RC lipo to 4.1v per cell, you'd ask for a charger set to stop charging at 49v. Maybe two, a small slow one for charging at work and a big fast one for home?

Re bike quality, a lot depends on how hard you are using the bike. More than 100 miles a week, a quality frame is worth it for sure. Good you have one. I've seen the cheap bike frames get softer and softer after about 2000 miles. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with my back brakes. Then I saw the frame was bending instead of putting the pressure on the rim. Lateral stiffness was shot too, the bike rode like it was made of cooked spagetti.

But if you don't put that many miles on it, a bike shaped object could be all you need. I agree with Chalo completely though, a true wheelman needs a good bike frame as the starting point. That's why I recomend the trek 820 so often, or any similar specialized, giant, whatever.

[stypherfire]

Is there anyway to add a small LED into the battery system made by methtek so that it will display the overall charge of the pack? that way i can easily prevent a meltdown at work if i monitor is carefully.