Update on my ezip

Jay64 · May 25, 2008

This past winter I bought an ezip from walmart for $350, shipped to my house. As many of you know, when I got it, it was pretty banged up from shipping and wouldn't run out of the box. I ended up modifying the throttle switch to get it to at least run, but then it would start moving as soon as the main power switch was turned on, whether I had the throttle open or not. So I got the new throttle from currie and when i put that on, it all worked good (after I re-aligned the battery racks on the back. When I first got it, it was our rainy season, and I tried to get some fenders for it. Turns out the threaded holes in the frame are not the standard size that the fender company figured they would be when they sent the bolts, but it also turns out that not all four holes are the same size as each other. That was kind of a kick in the butt, but I just ended up not mounting them and the rainy season soon passed. I have been riding it to work almost everyday. I bought a $35 light kit that had an LED headlight and tail light. Pretty much a big rip off. All the headlight is good for is letting cars know I am there, it doesn't light up my path worth a lick. I can ride to work and back on a single charge. One day I forgot my house keys at work, so after I got home I realized I had to go back to work again to get my keys. It was pretty hot, so I rested for a bit in my carport and charged the battery for about 5-10 minutes before I headed back out. I made it back to my work again, and pretty much all the way home, but it was draggin' ass by the time I got back to my place. I was doing a lot of the pedaling on the way home. I was really suprised that it got me all the way back home.
So the other day I decided to experiment a little bit. I have some 28v Milwaukee battery packs and some 36v Dewalt battery packs. I had heard that the 36v might possibly blow out my controller, so I figured I would save that test for later. So I took the wooden battery box that I had built for the Milwaukees when I was trying to build the pocketbike. I really didn't want to tap into the main power wires just in case I messed something up, I wanted to be able to go back to stock if I had to. So the other day I was messing around with the battery contact and noticed that there was a panel under it. So I took that panel off and found that there were some ring (don't know what they are actually called) connectors held in place with a screw to the bottom of the connector. So I was able to just crimp some ring connectors onto the end of my battery box wires and screwed them into the bottom of the battery contact. The ezip has battery contacts on both sides of the rack so that you can run two battery packs if you want. There is a switch that flips back and forth between the two sides. So I bungeed the wooden battery box to the top of the rack to see if it worked. I left the stock battery on one side, and wired the wooden box to the other side, so that I could use the stock battery if I needed to. It ran fine. I went up and down the street to see if I could tell the difference between the stock pack and the 28v pack. No noticeable difference. I got my girlfriend to drive her car next to me to do a ghetto speed check. The stock battery got 15 mph and the 28v got 18. The weird thing is that when we did that test with the stock battery when it was new, it got 18mph.
So yesterday I decided to see how far the 28v packs would take me. I rode to work with them. They made it all the way to work with no problems. I rode home with them and make it to about a mile from my house when I noticed the power drastically falling off. About a block from my house they just totally gave out and I switched to the stock pack to finish the trip. My multi meter doesn't handle high amps, so I am not able to check how many amps I have been using. I ordered a cycle analyst, but it hasn't arrived yet. Today, I rode with the 28v pack again and charged while I was at work. When I got home I checked the v of the one pack and it was at 27.3v, fully charged 28.8v. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the bike. Diesel prices are up to 4.65/gal now, so I am saving a ton of money on gas.

EcoForumZ · May 25, 2008

Thanks for the details on hooking up the external batteries. I just picked up a ezip that I am giving to my nephew once I get my custom bike built. Have you tested the 36v dewalt yet? I am wondering how far you can go with the it and how well the motor and controller handles it. I have heard of people using 36v on the 07 motors but the new ones are 450 watts.

Let me know how your testing goes.

safe · May 26, 2008

Jay64 said:
I had heard that the 36v might possibly blow out my controller, so I figured I would save that test for later.

It's possible, but even if it happens you can buy cheap controllers as a replacement for about $50. So it's not a big deal.

I've been running my 36 volt controller at 48 volts for about 200 miles and so far so good... the bigger problem is that all that extra low end torque tends to heat up the motor more. I've got gears and am "wise" to the pitfalls of electrical torque and heat so I know how to scream the motor to keep it cool. If you have direct drive (Currie style) you will need to be careful with the low rpms.

:arrow:

More voltage gives more top end speed.

Jay64 · May 26, 2008

Yeah, I have heard the a higher voltage controller isn't that much money, the problem would be that I would be without a bike for a few days while I waited for the new controller to get in. Well, I wouldn't be without a bike, I would just be without power, and now I'm too lazy to ride without it. :lol: I suppose I could just order it up now and have it there ready, but then it would seem a waste if the stock one ended up being able to handle the 36v. But then again, maybe I should just buy a 48v one now and test out my SLA batts while i'm at it. :twisted:

Hmm, actually, that is a pretty good idea if I do say so myself. :lol: But then I'll probably end up paralleling my 28v batts to see how 56v goes and if the 48v controller can handle that.
So Safe, you are saying it is better for my motor to keep it on full throttle the whole way to work??? 8)

Ecoforumz, the 07 is sold as a 450 watt, but apparently they are overvolting the motor already to get there. That's what I've heard at least. I'll try to update when I test the 36v. Even if I buy the 48v controller for a backup, I will still run the 36v through the stock one just to see if it can handle it.

safe · May 26, 2008

Jay64 said:
So Safe, you are saying it is better for my motor to keep it on full throttle the whole way to work??? 8)

Once the rpm's are up then full throttle is fine.

Just think of one of your race bikes and putting it into 6th gear while sitting on the starting line. You rev the motor up really high and then dump the clutch... while in 6th gear... if the motor doesn't stall or a few teeth in the transmission don't break off (or your front wheel lifts up or rear wheel spin, etc) you will eventually get going, but it will have been really hard on the bike. However, if you work your way up to speed gradually by going through the gears then when you are at high speed then full throttle will be just fine in 6th gear because the motor will breath easily.

:arrow:

It's the same kind of thing with electric motors.

You want to let the revs climb up first before you totally open up the throttle or you will be heating your motor too much. On my bike the gears allow me to keep it in the powerband all the time, but if you just "throttle fiddle" (use less than full throttle when at low rpms) then you can avoid a lot of heat.

Anyway... you ought to just get a 48 volt controller and try it out. I would step up in voltage in small steps (36v to 48v) and watch the motor temperature carefully. Get a feel for if there's any room past 48 volts before things start getting too hot.

Even 48 volts might be too much unless you baby it...

Jay64 · May 27, 2008

That is one thing I forgot to check when I ran with the 28v. I'll try to remember to check how hot the motor gets the next time I ride to work with the 28v pack. I'm thinking of adding a third 28v battery to the pack to get a little more range.

Jay64 · May 27, 2008

Oh yeah, another thing that I forgot to update about the ezip. The battery pack gets locked into place with a pin mechanism that slides into a hole in the side of the battery. I can no longer unlock the pin so the battery is stuck in place on the rack. I'm not sure what has caused it to get stuck in the way that it has. One possibility is that the back end tends to bounce a lot when I go over the drive way bumps in the sidewalk. I wonder if the battery might have bent the pin from all the bouncing. I tried the key on the other side and it moves very easily, but I have applied so much force to the key on the battery side that I feel like the key is about to snap off. That sort of defeats the purpose of using the higher power/lighter weight batteries if I am still lugging around the original SLA pack too. It was good to have it on there when I first started testing the 28v packs so that I could switch back over to it if I ran out of juice. However, I feel that I am limiting the range of the 28v packs by having to carry so much extra weight. I have another rack that currie sent to me when the original was damaged, but I can't figure out how to take it off with the battery pack still in place because it is sitting on the connector and the connector has to come up to be removed. Hmmm, actually now that I am sitting here typing it, I think I might be able to just take the wiring off from the bottom of the connector and leave the battery and connector on the rack. And then just use the new rack to hold the 28v batts. That way I wouldn't need that connector. Ok, nevermind, I think I might have just solved my own problem. :roll:

:lol:

Jay64 · May 28, 2008

Ok, now i know why I didn't do that plan earlier. It can't be done. I have to take out the battery contacts (which I can't do when the battery is in place) in order to take off the wires that connect them to the bike. So I got frustrated with the whole non-working lock mechanism and took a screwdriver and hammer to it. Bent it out of the way and slid the battery pack out. The stock pack weighs 15 lbs. The two Milwaukee 28v packs I am replacing it with weigh about 3 lbs. 3 of them come out to exactly 5 lbs. (At least those are the numbers off my crude bathroom scale, so I guess I shouldn't say 'exactly'.) I think I will be able to re-charge the 28v packs at work. A little less obvious then a big cord going right to my bicycle in the middle of the break room. So I will be able to make it back home with no problems without the support of the stock pack. I will try to build another box that has room for 3 of the packs to give a little farther range, then I should be able to make it back home with out re-charging if I have to.

One thing I noticed while working on the bike today is that the motor chain is a bit loose. I looked through the manual on how to adjust it and there is nothing in there regarding the electric portion of the bike. Everything in there is just regular bicycle stuff. So I figured I would try to just wing it. I found the two slotted wholes on the mount plate and loosened those bolts and I tried to adjust the bolt that looks to be an adjuster bolt, but it wouldn't budge. There looks to be a very skinny nut on the axle between the frame and the motor mount plate. I'm guessing that I might need to loosen that, but I don't have a wrench in that size which is that skinny. From the looks of it, I have to take the wheel/motor completely off the bike in order to adjust it. That seems really ridiculus to me.

TylerDurden · May 28, 2008

Does the motor mount like this?

20071202_Ozhonda.com_cruise_to_Port_Melbourne_164.jpg

or more vertical:

Also, is the motor loose on the bracket, or is the bracket loose on the bike? (or both?)

:?:

EcoForumZ · May 28, 2008

Jay64 said:
Ok, now i know why I didn't do that plan earlier. It can't be done. I have to take out the battery contacts (which I can't do when the battery is in place) in order to take off the wires that connect them to the bike. So I got frustrated with the whole non-working lock mechanism and took a screwdriver and hammer to it. Bent it out of the way and slid the battery pack out. The stock pack weighs 15 lbs. The two Milwaukee 28v packs I am replacing it with weigh about 3 lbs. 3 of them come out to exactly 5 lbs. (At least those are the numbers off my crude bathroom scale, so I guess I shouldn't say 'exactly'.) I think I will be able to re-charge the 28v packs at work. A little less obvious then a big cord going right to my bicycle in the middle of the break room. So I will be able to make it back home with no problems without the support of the stock pack. I will try to build another box that has room for 3 of the packs to give a little farther range, then I should be able to make it back home with out re-charging if I have to.

One thing I noticed while working on the bike today is that the motor chain is a bit loose. I looked through the manual on how to adjust it and there is nothing in there regarding the electric portion of the bike. Everything in there is just regular bicycle stuff. So I figured I would try to just wing it. I found the two slotted wholes on the mount plate and loosened those bolts and I tried to adjust the bolt that looks to be an adjuster bolt, but it wouldn't budge. There looks to be a very skinny nut on the axle between the frame and the motor mount plate. I'm guessing that I might need to loosen that, but I don't have a wrench in that size which is that skinny. From the looks of it, I have to take the wheel/motor completely off the bike in order to adjust it. That seems really ridiculus to me.

Did you ever try the dewalt 36v or did that not work out?
After you test the Milwaukee 28v packs can you post the estimated milage you get per pack?
How are you going to wire up the Milwaukee 28v packs? If you have pictures please post em.

Good luck!

How2 · Jun 11, 2008

Hello all,
I too would like to see pictures of how you hooked up the 28vMilwaukee battery. If they are that much more lightweight, then I will forgo ordering a 2nd battery pack from Currie and save the weight and add more range. I am not an electronics guru by any stretch of the imagination, so pictures would really help me. Is that doable? Thank you so much for your creativity and assistance!

pwbset · Jun 11, 2008

How2 said:
I too would like to see pictures of how you hooked up the 28vMilwaukee battery.

There are tons of posts on this forum on how to hook up Milwaukee packs in various ways. Do a member search on people like lazarus, jondoh, maytag, mlrosier or search for keyword "Milwaukee" or "emoli" and start reading. There is information for all kinds of setups including bypassing the on-board BMS for more the 2s/52v setups, where to buy connector block assemblies (jondoh's videos), how to harvest and build custom packs etc. etc. Just finished my 6-pack Milwaukee build the other night ( http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4716 ) and am waiting for the snow to stop to test range, climbing power etc.

Good luck and be careful of the addiction!

Jay64 · Jun 11, 2008

TylerDurden said:
Does the motor mount like this?

Also, is the motor loose on the bracket, or is the bracket loose on the bike? (or both?)

Dang, I thought I had replied to this. yes, it mounts like the first one. Um, I'm pretty sure I loosened the braket from the bike. Well, at least that is what I was trying to do. It seems like it is still not loose though.

No, I haven't tried the dewalt pack yet. Been busy trying to get parts for my next build. It's been raining pretty bad over here lately so I have kind of stopped riding the ebike for a bit. I'm still trying to figure out a more solid way to make my battery box. Been thinking of building one out of plexiglass since i have some left over from another project for my racing. Right now, one of the connector blocks came loose from the box. I tried to re-attach it, but it popped off again on the ride home. One day I rode to work and home on the two packs. It is about a 10 mile round trip. They died out about a block from my house. Now I re-charge at work so I don't take them that far down. I bought the milwaukee connector blocks, that's how I wired them up. It was really simple with those. I will try to get some pics of it up soon.

How2 · Jun 12, 2008

Jay64 said:
It is about a 10 mile round trip. They died out about a block from my house. Now I re-charge at work so I don't take them that far down. I bought the milwaukee connector blocks, that's how I wired them up. It was really simple with those. I will try to get some pics of it up soon.

Thanks for your response. The part of this that I am most interested in (and confused about) is where you connected your new battery source on the ezip. I know the battery racks have the power wires coming from the bottom of the racks.. but I'm not so up on electronics and would love to see how you specifically did this part of the wiring. Thanks again!

vanilla ice · Jun 12, 2008

My currie had the fuse installed in between the two 12v batteries. What I did is pull the fuse socket out to access the two wires. Added a third 12v in series between the two stock batteries. This way I didn't have to mess with the controller connectors. left a fuse in series also, so its like this-

24v stock: +bat-fuse+bat-

36v now: +bat-+bat-fuse+bat-

How2 · Jun 12, 2008

vanilla ice said:
My currie had the fuse installed in between the two 12v batteries. What I did is pull the fuse socket out, and wire a third 12v in series between the two stock batteries. I left the fuse in there also, so its like this-

24v stock: +bat-fuse+bat-

36v now: +bat-+bat-fuse+bat-

BRILLIANT... I CAN DEFINITELY DO THIS. What effect has the extra 12V had on your range?

I don't care too much about speed so much, just want more range, and I'd like to "create" a second battery source for the other side of the rack (or the top) without waiting until the end of July. Currie says no batteries until the end of July and I need the distance now. Thank you!

vanilla ice · Jun 12, 2008

Even tho you're not doing parallel its still adding 50% more watt hours. It should increase your range almost +50% as long as you keep the speed down to what you ran at on 24v. Also keep in mind I have the bmx currie so your wiring/controller may vary. I've gone 20 miles but with lots of pedaling.

How2 · Jun 12, 2008

vanilla ice said:
Even tho you're not doing parallel its still adding 50% more watt hours. It should increase your range almost +50% as long as you keep the speed down to what you ran at on 24v. Also keep in mind I have the bmx currie so your wiring/controller may vary. I've gone 20 miles but with lots of pedaling.

i've traveled 15 miles with lots of pedal assist on the 24v, so thank you for answering my questions. I suppose I can expect to get to about 20 miles with the extra 12v wired in. I would love to go LIPO to get rid of the weight as that would also increase the distance but that's pretty pricey with ping on hiatus.

kbarrett · Jun 12, 2008

More voltage at the same Amp-Hours means you still run out of power in the same amount of time, but you are going faster so you get farther.

This is true up to a point ... past 48V air resistance starts to become a problem.

vanilla ice · Jun 12, 2008

Not true, if you control your right wrist. Whats that saying, just becuase you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Its tempting to go faster, but you don't HAVE to.

Jay64 · Jun 12, 2008

I will try to get some pics as soon as I have time. It was really easy once I figured it out, which was by complete accident. If you take off the battery contacts from the rack, you can then take off the bottom plate. The wires going from the contact to the on/off switch are crimped with a loop and a screw holds them in place to the contact. I put loops on the wires coming from my home made battery box and put the screw through those wires and the stock wires and it was done. That way I can use the three way (on/off/on) switch to toggle back and forth between my stock battery pack and my 28v battery pack. I guess I should clarify that I wired the 28v battery pack into the side of the rack that the stock battery was NOT on. I was actually shocked how easy it was to do this. I thought I was going to have to splice into the stock wires or something. I think I am going to try to work on my 28v battery pack tomorrow. If I do, I will try to get some pics of what I am talking about.

dogman dan · Jun 13, 2008

For some of us, if you can go faster, you do have to! I stay the hell off motorcycles above a 125. In a car i drive sane, but something about a bike. I just love that slidy feeling and go looking for nice slick crosswalk paint. It's just the way I'm wired.

How2 · Jun 13, 2008

Jay64 said:
I will try to get some pics as soon as I have time. It was really easy once I figured it out, which was by complete accident. If you take off the battery contacts from the rack, you can then take off the bottom plate. The wires going from the contact to the on/off switch are crimped with a loop and a screw holds them in place to the contact. I put loops on the wires coming from my home made battery box and put the screw through those wires and the stock wires and it was done. That way I can use the three way (on/off/on) switch to toggle back and forth between my stock battery pack and my 28v battery pack. I guess I should clarify that I wired the 28v battery pack into the side of the rack that the stock battery was NOT on. I was actually shocked how easy it was to do this. I thought I was going to have to splice into the stock wires or something. I think I am going to try to work on my 28v battery pack tomorrow. If I do, I will try to get some pics of what I am talking about.

NO SPLICING?!?!?! WOOOHOOOO!! When you get the time, pics would be great! I cannot believe how much I am learning here from all of you! Thank you so much!

Jay64 · Jun 13, 2008

dogman said:
For some of us, if you can go faster, you do have to! I stay the hell off motorcycles above a 125. In a car i drive sane, but something about a bike. I just love that slidy feeling and go looking for nice slick crosswalk paint. It's just the way I'm wired.

I'm lucky that I got to run in the professional racing series for so long. I was able to do things that I never would have been able to do on the street (and live). I was able to get a lot out of my system that way. I ride like hell on the track, but I'm almost opposite when I get on the streets now. I go slower then most people. I guess it is because even if I am going 100mph it is still boring. :lol: Once you go into a corner at about 180 mph and have no brakes, regular life seems dull. :lol:

Ok, I got some pics.
Here is my ghetto wood battery box. I didn't finish it because I wanted to test everything out and make sure it all worked first. You can see the connector block on the right has become loose.

Here is the backside of the battery box. I just used regular housewiring wiring nuts to connect the connector box and the rest of the wiring. I wouldn't recommend doing it this way, I was just trying to make sure it worked before I did anything better.

Here is a pic showing how the wires run down the rack rail and into the battery conntact box.

Take off the four screws holding the battery contact box in place, and lift it up as much as the stock wiring will allow.

Remove the four smaller screws on the bottom of the contact box and take off the black plastic cover.

closer view

Take out the screw that goes into the bottom of the battery contact, line your loop connection up with the stock loop connection and replace the screw.

Hope this wasn't too many pics.

How2 · Jun 13, 2008

Jay64 said:
Hope this wasn't too many pics.

THERE CAN NEVER BE TOO MANY PICS!!!!!!!!!!!! (especially for a noob like me)

This is EXACTLY what I needed to see Jay. Wooohooo!!!! Thanks a million!

Update on my ezip

100 kW

10 W

1 GW

100 kW

1 GW

100 kW

100 kW

100 kW

100 GW

10 W

100 mW

100 kW

100 kW

100 mW

1 MW

100 mW

1 MW

100 mW

10 kW

1 MW

100 kW

1 PW

100 mW

100 kW

100 mW

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