Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

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Kneelb4ZOD
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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by Kneelb4ZOD » Mar 08, 2017 4:39 am

I really like what you've done with the road bike version 2.
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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by chas58 » Mar 08, 2017 5:30 pm

@scooterMan101 -Couple of things.

I don't think it is all aero drag, although that does increase exponentially and become significant over 20mph.

Once a electric motor hits its max power, the power drops off sharply. so, as you get beyond 22-23mph, your motor is giving you almost nothing. Thus, its not going to help at all going down hill at 26-28mph. Even my 328rpm motor peters out at 28mph and is doing nothing at 30mph.

Yeah, if you really want more than 22mph, you need the 260rpm at 48volts (or 52v?). that may give you 3-4 extra mph (and be careful on the hills with that setup). That is basically the same speed as my 328rpm at 36v. And, I'm riding at "club rider" speeds on my solo runs with that setup.

Motomech told someone that you don't want to sustain more than 50% of a motor's top speed up a hill, or risk burning out. That is a great rule of thumb. YOu can calcualte this specific overheat speed (it depends on the motor, throttle, and current used), but that is a pretty good quick rule of thumb. As I recall from my calculations, the stock Q100 (36v 14a) will start to overheat and a little over 40% of its no load speed, or about 50% of its actual cruising speed on the road.

Here is an idea for you. Purchase a bare 260rpm motor, and swap out the core with your current motor. That is a relatively cheap upgrade. Unscrewing the core from a well used motor can prove to be a challenge though.


Kneelb4ZOD wrote:I really like what you've done with the road bike version 2.
thanks. It really came into its own with the smaller modern batteries.
majornelson wrote:Great picture!
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 08, 2017 11:24 pm

I have already known for quite some time that once any hub motor reaches its max power it gives nothing, I first experienced that with my Mac / MTB build when going down steep hills trying to keep up with riders on their Carbon Race Road Bikes . I would get a 260 rpm Q100 sometime in the future, but I have two 201's already , and when I looked there was no 260 rpm in the Cassette version. Hopefully there will be someone here in the U.S. that will import them , in the near future that will contact the maker of the Q100 cassette motor and have them make a few improvments on them. With two motors now, I am looking at other drive systems for my next project.

When going up hill, didn't you mean to say , you must Keep your road speed above 50% of max motor speed ?

That is what I do , either on the Mac, or the Q100c , In my case both motors max out at about 20-22 mph, so
when riding up hills I back off the throttle a little to half, then I put in as much effort to the cranks as my legs and cardiovascular system will handle, often to over the rec amended heart rate for my age, in order to keep the speeds up around 12 mph minimum and more like 13- 14 mph.
For anyone who has not ridden a little Q100 / Q100 c motor, note that it is not a hill climber .


chas58 wrote:@scooterMan101

Once a electric motor hits its max power, the power drops off sharply. so, as you get beyond 22-23mph, your motor is giving you almost nothing. Thus, its not going to help at all going down hill at 26-28mph. Even my 328rpm motor peters out at 28mph and is doing nothing at 30mph.

Motomech told someone that you don't want to sustain more than 50% of a motor's top speed up a hill, or risk burning out. That is a great rule of thumb. YOu can calcualte this specific overheat speed (it depends on the motor, throttle, and current used), but that is a pretty good quick rule of thumb. As I recall from my calculations, the stock Q100 (36v 14a) will start to overheat and a little over 40% of its no load speed, or about 50% of its actual cruising speed on the road.

Here is an idea for you. Purchase a bare 260rpm motor, and swap out the core with your current motor. That is a relatively cheap upgrade. Unscrewing the core from a well used motor can prove to be a challenge though.
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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by majornelson » Mar 25, 2017 5:25 pm

Posting here it seems to be the default Q100 thread. :). I'm having issues with my build where the motor cuts out after about 10 minutes (depending on outside air temps- colder longer and warmer shorter).

My recent build was on a road bike where I wanted a clean look and only PAS (I peddle consistently @95 rpm- I was looking for just a little boost in speed while pedaling) . chas58's build was inspirational, along with others on endless-sphere- and the advice from this group has been spot on.

Here is the thread- https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=86204

Quick build overview so you don't have to read the thread- Q100C rear motor, greenbikekit CON63 sinewave controller with LCD meter for electric bike, PAS sensors on BB. And a Luna 52v Mighty Mini Cube Ebike Battery. All put in a canvas bag on the rear (but I've tested with the controller hanging out of the bag with no luck).

Anyway, I love the look, weight (32 lbs) and ride but I'm having power cutoff issues that I'm trying to solve. After I ride for 10 minutes or so the display stays on but the motor cuts out. If I turn the system off, (from the display) and back on, I have power to the motor for a brief period and then it cuts out again. I had a second CON63 controller and swapped that in this weekend but saw the exact same behavior. I've stopped the bike after this happens and the controller is a little warm but far from hot. I've also moved the controller out of the bag (after the motor lost power), gave it few minutes and started pedaling again. But then the motor would lose power again. I'm focused on the controller but it could be the motor or something else. Don't know. Last week I actually put some a snowball against the controller after it cut out (we had a snow storm in DC ten days ago that left a little on the edges of the path) and that seemed to give me another ten minutes or so. Outside temps that day were in the low 40's.

I can permanently mount the controller below the bag, exposed if needed. I would prefer not to do this but could. But when I move the controller outside the bag (after a cutoff) it doesn't seem to make a difference. It still cuts out.

So long story short, I'm not certain if the issue is with the controller (most obvious), motor (I didn't used the Q100C on my other builds, which don't have this problem) or somehow the battery (which I don't think as the display still works).

Any thoughts or experience to share?

Thanks.

Lee
Trek DS 8.4, MAC 8T, 48v
Brooklyn Cruiser Q100 Light Commuter Build
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 9&p=794208
1984 Schwinn Supper Sport Conversion
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84433

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 25, 2017 10:35 pm

Have you tried to hook up a throttle , then see if you still have the same problem ?

If that does not work perhaps buy a different controller from somewhere else ? , since you could have gotten two bad controllers from the same batch . ( or even more likely since green bike kit lists that con63 controller for 24-36 volts , and you are using a 52 volt battery , you are putting more volts into the controller than what it can handle )

The cheap way is to buy a generic Kuntang controller that is 48volt / 15 amp rated through aliexpress .
If a controller is rated for 48 volts it most likely can handle a 52 volt , nominal , pack.

Is the display the same one BMS Battery sells with the Q100 motor ?

Or you can go a ( little ) more expensive way and get what many people call the Infineon Controller from em3ev.com
http://em3ev.com/product/6-fet-irfb4110 ... ontroller/
and the controller programing cable to bring the max amp draw down to 15 or under amps max.
http://em3ev.com/product/eb3-infineon-program-lead/

If you do get a better / a little more expensive controller like the infineon, you will have to change hall sensor wires in the plastic plugs. Someone in Switzerland did the q100c cst and infineon combo and experimented to get the right color mis-match combo's right. So there is a thread here on E.S. that lists the right color combination to make the Infineon work with the LCD display and motor.
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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by motomech » Mar 25, 2017 11:54 pm

majornelson wrote:Posting here it seems to be the default Q100 thread. :). I'm having issues with my build where the motor cuts out after about 10 minutes (depending on outside air temps- colder longer and warmer shorter).

My recent build was on a road bike where I wanted a clean look and only PAS (I peddle consistently @95 rpm- I was looking for just a little boost in speed while pedaling) . chas58's build was inspirational, along with others on endless-sphere- and the advice from this group has been spot on.

Here is the thread- https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=86204

Quick build overview so you don't have to read the thread- Q100C rear motor, greenbikekit CON63 sinewave controller with LCD meter for electric bike, PAS sensors on BB. And a Luna 52v Mighty Mini Cube Ebike Battery. All put in a canvas bag on the rear (but I've tested with the controller hanging out of the bag with no luck).

Anyway, I love the look, weight (32 lbs) and ride but I'm having power cutoff issues that I'm trying to solve. After I ride for 10 minutes or so the display stays on but the motor cuts out. If I turn the system off, (from the display) and back on, I have power to the motor for a brief period and then it cuts out again. I had a second CON63 controller and swapped that in this weekend but saw the exact same behavior. I've stopped the bike after this happens and the controller is a little warm but far from hot. I've also moved the controller out of the bag (after the motor lost power), gave it few minutes and started pedaling again. But then the motor would lose power again. I'm focused on the controller but it could be the motor or something else. Don't know. Last week I actually put some a snowball against the controller after it cut out (we had a snow storm in DC ten days ago that left a little on the edges of the path) and that seemed to give me another ten minutes or so. Outside temps that day were in the low 40's.

I can permanently mount the controller below the bag, exposed if needed. I would prefer not to do this but could. But when I move the controller outside the bag (after a cutoff) it doesn't seem to make a difference. It still cuts out.

So long story short, I'm not certain if the issue is with the controller (most obvious), motor (I didn't used the Q100C on my other builds, which don't have this problem) or somehow the battery (which I don't think as the display still works).

Any thoughts or experience to share?

Thanks.

Lee
Maybe I'm missing something, but the only CON63 controller I see on GBK is a 24/36 Volt model. Are you trying to use that controller w/ a 52 V battery? No doubt that controller has 50 V cap.s.

Elifebike has a new small, 6-FET, 48 V controller;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-48V-250W-14 ... sxrLPhfyrQ
It would only be compatible with the LED meter.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1237928

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by majornelson » Mar 26, 2017 8:28 am

Thanks, guys. I have tried it with a throttle and I have the same problem with the motor cutting out.

I had this setup working on another bike with the same controller and battery - no issues. But the controller on this bike was wired a little differently so it was most likely a different batch with different tolerances.

Has anyone had success with the sine wave controllers from BMS Battery? The LCD display is similar to what I have on the greenbikekit setup. I like the sine wave as it seems to be much quieter with the Q100 than a traditional controller, which tends to have a whine.
Trek DS 8.4, MAC 8T, 48v
Brooklyn Cruiser Q100 Light Commuter Build
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 9&p=794208
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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 26, 2017 8:57 am

Someone , Somewhere on E.S. posted that some/many of the small cheap controllers that are sold by the places like
BMS/GBK/etc. were not really true sine wave, that they were something between square wave and sine wave.
Perhaps there could be a test thread in the technical section started.


majornelson wrote:
I had this setup working on another bike with the same controller and battery - no issues. But the controller on this bike was wired a little differently so it was most likely a different batch with different tolerances.

Has anyone had success with the sine wave controllers from BMS Battery? The LCD display is similar to what I have on the greenbikekit setup. I like the sine wave as it seems to be much quieter with the Q100 than a traditional controller, which tends to have a whine.
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by chas58 » Mar 27, 2017 10:31 am

majornelson wrote:Thanks, guys. I have tried it with a throttle and I have the same problem with the motor cutting out.

I had this setup working on another bike with the same controller and battery - no issues. But the controller on this bike was wired a little differently so it was most likely a different batch with different tolerances.

Has anyone had success with the sine wave controllers from BMS Battery? The LCD display is similar to what I have on the greenbikekit setup. I like the sine wave as it seems to be much quieter with the Q100 than a traditional controller, which tends to have a whine.

Well, it could be all kinds of things.

Of course, check all of your connections. If one of the 3 phase wires is loose, it could do what you described.

I have a battery that did that after a couple of years. Last time I bought a cheap battery!
I have a couple of controllers that did that (burned out). I think it was most likely to happen after full throttle for over an hour. It never got hot, but did get a little warm. Since then, I put my controllers out in the fresh air, right next to my bag (or in between the seat tube and the rear fender is good if you want to get a fender). No problems sense then.
Elifebike has a 12a 14a and 17a controller you could use (verify the voltage). The 12a 6Mosfet and 17a 9mosfet would do a little better in a bag as they are not being pushed so hard – but that 17a is a big ole controller compared to the smaller ones. 17a and 52v could put you over the edge of what that little motor can do though. That is almost 900 watts.
The elife controllers are a little different, in that they need the power on wires to be connected to work, and the PAS switch also limits the throttle. First time I took one on the road, I was wondering why the heck it was so slow (needed to jump the PAS speed selector to get full speed out of the throttle).

I tend to buy 2+ of the cheap stuff when placing an order, so I can mix and match to diagnose. That said, a basic controller is less than $30 shipped from elifebike.

The S06 sinewave from BMSB could be a good upgrade for ya (at 36v, my stock greenbike and elife bike controllers are quite quiet).
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by motomech » Mar 27, 2017 8:59 pm

Very good post above and I agree with all, except maybe the 17A X 52V part. I've been running my frt. 260H on 20A(again, the ELB 9-FET) X 46V(Lipo) for a year, but as a frt. motor, it only gets used intermittently. It is quite loud though, a whine, not a dangerous hammering. So I think the "H's" can handle 900 Watts from a "soft start" controller, if one is careful.
When I used a Q100C rear on the 17A 9-FET ELB controller, it was dead silent, like the sine-wave SO6S and my current Ezee geared on a shut-modd'ed(25A) 9-FET is noiseless as well.
So the amount of noise from a system seems to be as dependent on the motor as much as the controller.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1237928

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by docw009 » Mar 27, 2017 9:32 pm

I gather you took the 2nd CON63 off another bike? What happens if you run the Mini on that one? It seems like you're overstressing a component on the 36V CON63 with the higher voltage (58V) of the Mini.

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by tomjasz » Mar 27, 2017 11:41 pm

Newest project here was offing aBBSHD and converting that bike to a upgrade Mac. But ive been fascinated by this little motor since my decision to go with mid drives. Being a flat lander theres no reason to stay with them and i expect the BBS01's to need more work than im interested in, in a coming season.

So...Im going to jump in with front drives. I have one, against much advice, but like it, however its a big heavy DD. I'm likng the look of these little gear drives.

I have several 6FET 3077 lyen controllers with CA3 connectors and a couple of CA3's and a CA2.4. Am i all set for controllers?
Better off with little sine waves and another display?
I'm liking the idea of possibly turning one bike into a 2wd, which two motors would be recommended there?

I've accumulated all the bits to configure my own small battery packs as i like the idea of stealthy builds. So I can configure the battery I couldn't get for Chas.

Latest bestsource? SamD mentioned elifebike. But no Q100! I'm about to sell the last lightly used BBSHD and will have the wheels built here.


EDIT bms seems the only game Q100H... BMS Q100C CST and Q100H both 201?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by majornelson » Mar 28, 2017 9:25 am

docw009 wrote:I gather you took the 2nd CON63 off another bike? What happens if you run the Mini on that one? It seems like you're overstressing a component on the 36V CON63 with the higher voltage (58V) of the Mini.
I had an extra CON63. I have another bike with a similar setup to this one (where I did not see any issues) at our beach house and I'm going there this weekend and will bring the bike back to try and swap components around. The pain is I've ended up with different connectors on the controller (my lack of soldering capabilities mostly) so every switch out involves some cutting and crimping.
chas58 wrote:Of course, check all of your connections. If one of the 3 phase wires is loose, it could do what you described.
I agree and checked all of the connections. I saw the same behavior with both controllers - cut outs after a bit - and if I turned the unit off and then back on it would work again for a minute or so. Which makes me think that I'm putting too much on the controller with the Luna battery (tops out at 57.2 volts).

I ended up ordering a new controller and LCD from BMS Battery. Hopefully it will be in a couple of weeks. I ordered a larger, 48v controller - S12S 500W Torque Simulation Sine Wave Controller from them. I'll post any results here.

Thanks!
Trek DS 8.4, MAC 8T, 48v
Brooklyn Cruiser Q100 Light Commuter Build
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 9&p=794208
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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84433

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by chas58 » Mar 28, 2017 4:33 pm

majornelson wrote:
docw009 wrote:

I ended up ordering a new controller and LCD from BMS Battery. Hopefully it will be in a couple of weeks. I ordered a larger, 48v controller - S12S 500W Torque Simulation Sine Wave Controller from them. I'll post any results here.

Thanks!
Just be careful how much current you put through there, 25amps at 52v would kill that motor. ;-)

Oh, I've been using a little elifebike controller (12amp) on my latest build, and am back to bike commuting season. Oh, last night, that little thing got so hot in my bag, its going to have to come out into the fresh air to stay cool going forward...
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by chas58 » Mar 28, 2017 4:47 pm

tomjasz wrote:
I have several 6FET 3077 lyen controllers with CA3 connectors and a couple of CA3's and a CA2.4. Am i all set for controllers?
Better off with little sine waves and another display?
I'm liking the idea of possibly turning one bike into a 2wd, which two motors would be recommended there?

I've accumulated all the bits to configure my own small battery packs as i like the idea of stealthy builds. So I can configure the battery I couldn't get for Chas.
Hey Tom,

These motors can be good for a light weight (light power) build for a flat lander. I’m so tempted to build up a BHS02, but I would really only need that for trail riding. The Q100 does me great on the streets.

What voltage do you use? What RPM? Mine are at 36v and are quite quiet with a square wave controller. The units with more power can benefit from a sine wave.

BMS, elifebike, and greenbikekit all have the motor, but as you see, they may have different configurations of it.

Elife bike’s inventory seems to change from day to day though. No QQ-100 on there today, but I have seen it there recently…
http://elifebike.com/peng/pic.asp?ModID ... ID=S220066

http://www.greenbikekit.com/electric-mo ... acturer=47


I’m sure motomech can give you advise on a dual drive Q100 and the controller options. Depending on your weigh you could go with the 260 or 320rpm versions (for ~20mph, and ~25mph respectively on 36v). With 48v you could use the 201 or 260 rpm versions and get similar speeds with a little more power.

(I’m getting tempted to get a reserve battery from the LG MJ1 in a 10s2p format (1kg, 7ah). But then again, the ligo batteries, and their ability to add and subtract packs at will is very intriguing)
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by motomech » Mar 28, 2017 5:04 pm

chas58 wrote:
majornelson wrote:
docw009 wrote:

I ended up ordering a new controller and LCD from BMS Battery. Hopefully it will be in a couple of weeks. I ordered a larger, 48v controller - S12S 500W Torque Simulation Sine Wave Controller from them. I'll post any results here.

Thanks!
Just be careful how much current you put through there, 25amps at 52v would kill that motor. ;-)

Oh, I've been using a little elifebike controller (12amp) on my latest build, and am back to bike commuting season. Oh, got so hot in my bag, its going to halast night, that little thing ve to come out into the fresh air to stay cool going forward...
Yeah, for sure the Huge S12S could kill a Q100. It's a double shunt, so I guess one could cut one shunt. But it's still 3 times bigger than the Q100 needs. Apparently, he's ignoring me, but I would recommend he cancels that order.
... got so hot in my bag, its going to halast night, that little thing ve to come out into the fresh air to stay cool going forward..
If your junk won't fall out, you might try unzipping the bag. I've done it when I didn't think it would help much and was suprised at how effective it was.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/20Ah Multistar Lipo rear 5Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1237928

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by docw009 » Mar 28, 2017 7:27 pm

docw009 wrote:
I ended up ordering a new controller and LCD from BMS Battery. Hopefully it will be in a couple of weeks. I ordered a larger, 48v controller - S12S 500W Torque Simulation Sine Wave Controller from them. I'll post any results here.
Thanks!
It turned out that the S12 was huge. I've never powered it up.
Here it is with the 6FET ELifebike 250W controller. That's been fired up once.
s12-2.jpg
s12-2.jpg (94.55 KiB) Viewed 1438 times

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by docw009 » Mar 28, 2017 8:05 pm

FIrst pic of my 20" blue folder with the 260 rpm Q100H in back. This one has the KT36/48ZWSRD-SLS02G, also known as the KU63 controller. I like it because I can switch between 36V and 52V without fuss.

The KT controller seems to be a bit stronger than the Elifebike 250W controller.
FS8.jpg
FS8.jpg (170.41 KiB) Viewed 1433 times
The controller is mounted under the rack on the battery box.My Luna Mini that fits in there, or I can put in a Ryobi 40V 180 watt-hr lawn battery, and a 36V 10S-3P. I ordered a small set of pannier bags to hide the battery box.

Today is the first day I rode it motorized. Being a new bike, I hesitated to motorize it, but the Downtube FS-8 rides very nice. Full suspension. 1,5" tires. About 38 pounds. Pedals easy w/o power.

It's not a 28mph burner like the Luna folder with their 750W BBS02. It's a Q100H, I haven't tried 36V yet, but I expect it to be quite mild mannered.

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by majornelson » Mar 28, 2017 8:29 pm

Okay, not ignoring anyone but definitely didn't think everything through. I'll try and cancel the BMS Battery order and replace it with a smaller one. Still can't figure out why the CON63 seems to be failing but I'll swap out the battery this weekend with one that is known to work with the controller... Maybe that will help.

I also think that the various topics may be mixed in the thread... :)

Thanks!

Lee
Trek DS 8.4, MAC 8T, 48v
Brooklyn Cruiser Q100 Light Commuter Build
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 9&p=794208
1984 Schwinn Supper Sport Conversion
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84433

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by tomjasz » Mar 28, 2017 10:42 pm

chas58 wrote: Hey Tom,

These motors can be good for a light weight (light power) build for a flat lander. I’m so tempted to build up a BHS02, but I would really only need that for trail riding. The Q100 does me great on the streets.

What voltage do you use? What RPM? Mine are at 36v and are quite quiet with a square wave controller. The units with more power can benefit from a sine wave.
chas58 wrote: BMS, elifebike, and greenbikekit all have the motor, but as you see, they may have different configurations of it.
Yes and it gets kinda confusing, but I think I understand, the 250W has 3 gears, the 350W has 6 and can run at 48V. Correct ?
chas58 wrote:Elife bike’s inventory seems to change from day to day though. No QQ-100 on there today, but I have seen it there recently…
http://elifebike.com/peng/pic.asp?ModID ... ID=S220066
Having a conversation with them tonight. The most reasonable shipping and they (elife) come recommended by several including SamD, a trusted resource for me.
I've done some parts orders with BMS and GBK, GBK was easier to deal with and faster. But GBK has very little just now. I don't ned to hurry as I'll have the Mac to sort in the coming weeks. I though about a 2wd Mac but I don't need that much power.

chas58 wrote:I’m sure motomech can give you advise on a dual drive Q100 and the controller options. Depending on your weigh you could go with the 260 or 320rpm versions (for ~20mph, and ~25mph respectively on 36v). With 48v you could use the 201 or 260 rpm versions and get similar speeds with a little more power.


Hopefully I can roust him for assistance. I saw the 260 but also had somewhere it might not be the best choice for a 220lb rider, but opinions seem to vary. I posted in this thread as it seemed the better or more experienced users seemed to be here. I'd like at least 20MPH 25 would be nirvana, but I'm not all that concerned about speed. My BBS01's are around 20 and they are satisfactory. I just want simpler and more reliable. The BBSHD is overkill and beyond the ability of my V brakes for safe braking
chas58 wrote:(I’m getting tempted to get a reserve battery from the LG MJ1 in a 10s2p format (1kg, 7ah). But then again, the ligo batteries, and their ability to add and subtract packs at will is very intriguing)
I have quite a few batteries and a stash of cels to configure what I want. Thinking 36V is ideal for me. One bike needs 48V

I've discovered the three Lyen controllers I have are programable so I have all I need along with the CA3 units. I think... If something would be better I could sell them and fund something new.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by tomjasz » Mar 28, 2017 10:49 pm

docw009 wrote:FIrst pic of my 20" blue folder with the 260 rpm Q100H in back. This one has the KT36/48ZWSRD-SLS02G, also known as the KU63 controller. I like it because I can switch between 36V and 52V without fuss.

The KT controller seems to be a bit stronger than the Elifebike 250W controller.

The controller is mounted under the rack on the battery box.My Luna Mini that fits in there, or I can put in a Ryobi 40V 180 watt-hr lawn battery, and a 36V 10S-3P. I ordered a small set of pannier bags to hide the battery box.

Today is the first day I rode it motorized. Being a new bike, I hesitated to motorize it, but the Downtube FS-8 rides very nice. Full suspension. 1,5" tires. About 38 pounds. Pedals easy w/o power.

It's not a 28mph burner like the Luna folder with their 750W BBS02. It's a Q100H, I haven't tried 36V yet, but I expect it to be quite mild mannered.
I really like this bike! A BBSHD would spoil it. Right now it's very stealthy and quite handsome. IMO the BBSHD is to fast for most brake systems, at least for me. I sold one and may well sell my last one while it's low milage. Someone will get a swell deal!

Wel done!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by chas58 » Mar 29, 2017 8:15 am

docw009 wrote:FIrst pic of my 20" blue folder with the 260 rpm Q100H in back. This one has the KT36/48ZWSRD-SLS02G, also known as the KU63 controller. I like it because I can switch between 36V and 52V without fuss.
Nice.
I would be so tempted to try to weld up some batteries and hide them in that top tube... :-O
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by chas58 » Mar 29, 2017 8:22 am

tomjasz wrote:
Yes and it gets kinda confusing, but I think I understand, the 250W has 3 gears, the 350W has 6 and can run at 48V. Correct ?
Seems to me someone had problems with Lyen? Couldn’t quite keep up with the pulses or something?

All of the 36v motors are basically the same as I recall. Just 3 different windings 201, 260, 328. Roughly a 5mph difference between the 3 (15, 20, 25mph). The motor itself doesn’t really doesn’t have the power to do much over 20mph, so the 328 would need some assistance (either with a strong/light rider or a second motor) to stay in its happy place.

There isn’t really a 250 watt motor – unless you are talking about one of the 24v models (which is looks to me to have different reduction gears inside).
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by chas58 » Mar 29, 2017 10:11 am

@docw009: Yep, the S12 or the 17 amp elife bike, or probably any 9fet controller is going to be huge compared to those mini 6fet controllers.

That elifebike 250watt controller is 12 amp
the 350 watt controller is 14 amp
or their 9 mosfet controller is 17 amp

@ majornelson
Karl wrote an interesting article on using an inexpensive watt meter as a trouble shooting device.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/02/1 ... c-fatbike/
This unit is quite handy to use as a troubleshooting device as well as just using it as a low budget fuel gauge. If the battery cuts out on your BBS02 often it is not immediately obvious if the battery pack has hit the low voltage cutoff or if the BMS has shut down. If you have this device in between the battery and the controller then it is obvious what has failed because if the battery is still producing power then the display will be on, if the display has gone dark then the battery is your issue.
25^3 bike: 25 lbs, 25 mph, 25 mile range.
Road and Mountain Bike Cute Q100 builds:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49691

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Re: Cute Q100 lightweight builds slow mtb, fast road

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 29, 2017 5:35 pm

BMS Battery sells a 72 volt version of their ... S LCD3 Display. ( I should have bought that one instead of the 48 volt one )

However , Strangely enough they only sell 12 fet S controllers and 6 fet S controllers. ? ! ? ( the 6 fet and 12 fet controllers are either 24-36v or 36-48v or 72 v , but the 12 fet ones are high amps and the 6 fet ones are too low voltage.

So there is no option for those of us that want to run the Q100c on 16s or 18s Packs . ( I am only interested in 16 s to start for testing on the 201 rpm Q100c )

I know enough to keep the amps down
or watts down to 500 and under continuously ( since the S LCD 3 Display does not have a way to adjust the amps, I do it by being careful with the throttle ) .

Anyone know if the 72 volt S LCD 3 Display from BMS.B would work with the 6 fet IFRB 4110 controller from EM3ev ? it can handle up to 72 volts . ... http://em3ev.com/product/6-fet-irfb4110 ... ontroller/

and since it is an Infinion/what people call an Infinion Controller , the amps are adjustable with a $ 10 program lead . ... http://em3ev.com/product/eb3-infineon-program-lead/




Elife bike seems to sell 9 fet controllers , But , they are only up to 48 volt . ( so 52 volt max / 14s )
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

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