Newbie seeking advice

Hi all -

I've starting looking into converting a bike to an e-bike (I'm sure like many people lately, I want to stop using my car so much!). I have a few general questions that I hope you'll all be kind enough to advise me on. First of all, I'm a software developer and work mostly out of my house, so my plan is to start using a bike for local riding, errands, etc. Probably never more than 10 miles at once. Where I live is at the top of a long hill, which is why I'm looking for some electric help!

- On what bike to use for the conversion - I have an old road bike that I haven't used in 5-6 years. From what it sounds like, I would almost be better off just buying an inexpensive bike at Walmart or Target, rather than trying to get my old bike in shape - does that make sense?
- Since I'm just starting out, my plan is to get one of the Wilderness Energy kits (either the BD36 or BL36 - any thoughts on which one?). While I'm not a real bike maintenance guru, I'm usually pretty good at mechanical things (I can follow directions, etc!). Should I be able to hook up everything without too much trouble?
- If I get the WE kit, will I be able to swap out to another battery at some point? (a lithium-type one, for example)
- It looks like the WE kits have you mounting the battery on the rack in the back - how do most people carry other cargo (groceries, laptop, stuff like that) ?

I guess thats enough to start with This forum is great - thanks in advance for your help!

Cathy

connecticutcathy said:

Where I live is at the top of a long hill

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That statement will really effect what you're going to need. More details please. How long? How steep? What kind of shape are you in etc. etc.

I feel your pain. I am up here in the northwest corner and it is really hilly! My solution is probably going to be to use a geared hub motor and controller from Knuckles. They have expectational torque (Hill climbing power) and even though the motors are only rated at 250W you can pump a lot of juice through em to get great speed.

I am currently pestering him through PM but that might be an option for you as well.

I'd say go with a 36V/20Ah battery pack for starters, but if you were to use Knuckles motor I am not sure there is a compatible controller to run the motor because the E-Crazyman controller normally sold with it is rated at 72V/28Ah.

Ok, here are some more specifics:

The hill is about 1.3 miles in total. There are 9 steeper bits, with either flat or pretty gentle uphills in between. I've never actually ridden up it on a bike, since I've only been living here for a couple of years - I guess maybe I should try it on a regular bike to see if I get a heart attack

As far as my fitness - I guess I'd say I'm in decent but not great shape. I'm in my forties, and usually exercise for about 1/2 hour a day - treadmill, nordic track, etc. I definitely would be planning on pedaling if I do the bike conversion - I just don't want to die on the hills!

Thanks -

Cathy

Iron Yeti said:

My solution is probably going to be to use a geared hub motor...72V/28Ah.

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When I was seriously debating a geared motor like the ezee I was told by the ebike.ca guys that at those higher voltages and currents there is a lot of wear and tear on the internal nylon gearing and that they could strip.

ebike.ca said:

As for the ezee kit, keep in mind that if you wanted to run that at 72v it might strip the internal gearing and would definitely not be under warranty.

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I went with a rear brushless Clyte 4011 instead and am running it at 84v/20a currently and climbing a fairly serious mountain everyday with it. So far so good!

connecticutcathy said:

The hill is about 1.3 miles in total. There are 9 steeper bits, with either flat or pretty gentle uphills in between. I guess I'd say I'm in decent but not great shape. I'm in my forties, and usually exercise for about 1/2 hour a day

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Easy peasy! Most any setup would work for that I bet unless those "9 steeper bits" are like 10%+ in grade. Even at that you could "floor it" on the gentle parts and use the kinetic energy and momentary mad-like pedaling to hurdle yourself up the short uber-steep parts. You're so going to get addicted to this!

pwbset said:

Iron Yeti said:

My solution is probably going to be to use a geared hub motor...72V/28Ah.

Click to expand...

When I was seriously debating a geared motor like the ezee I was told by the ebike.ca guys that at those higher voltages and currents there is a lot of wear and tear on the internal nylon gearing and that they could strip.

ebike.ca said:

As for the ezee kit, keep in mind that if you wanted to run that at 72v it might strip the internal gearing and would definitely not be under warranty.

Click to expand...

I went with a rear brushless Clyte 4011 instead and am running it at 84v/20a currently and climbing a fairly serious mountain everyday with it. So far so good!

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The guys at ebikes.ca say that dual speed motors are in efficient. How does that work out for you?

Anyway, I was probably going to go with Knuckle's Bafang PMGR. He runs that poor bastard of a motor into the ground and it takes it like a champ.

Iron Yeti said:

The guys at ebikes.ca say that dual speed motors are in efficient. How does that work out for you?

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Yes they do say that. I have a 4011, which is a single speed. It's not fast... well... it does 30mph @ 84v, but it pulls really well. Just got my steel torque arms in the mail so I'm outta here to go install those!

pwbset said:

Iron Yeti said:

The guys at ebikes.ca say that dual speed motors are in efficient. How does that work out for you?

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Yes they do say that. I have a 4011, which is a single speed. It's not fast... well... it does 30mph @ 84v, but it pulls really well. Just got my steel torque arms in the mail so I'm outta here to go install those!

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Sweet. How hard is it on hills though? Much pedaling required?

I have a Wilderness Energy BD 36 with SLA 7ah. I travel 8 miles to work. I have a big hill to go up to get home. The SLA's won't get you home. I added one more cell to get 48V and it was a big help. But I still have to pedal my butt off. SLA's are good for a 5 mile distance. I would highly recommend you upgrade your batteries when you buy your kit.

The Wilderness kit is simple to install. I bought a BL36 from itselectric.ca.

Most vendors sell it with the motor already mounted in the front wheel. You must then mount your tube and tire (best if you puncture proof them now). Everything else is simply hooking everything up. There is usually included a rear mounted rack with a battery bag, some tie-wraps to strap your wires in place (buy extras), a throttle (thumb or twist grip), and a controller. I recommend you also buy a torque arm.

It will ship with sealed lead acid batts (SLA). My batts were 36v and 10 amps. My range was 18-20 miles with the 10 amp batts and I'm a clydsdale size. However, my area is flat, no hills at all.

The SLA's are very heavy and you may want to change batts in future, especially if you ever have to pedal or push your bike when the batts die. Any chemistry will work but you will have to get a compatible charger.

Also note that my bike is top heavy with the batts mounted on the rack. Not a problem when riding but some muscle when stationary to pick up or if it gets off balance.

edit: The only other problem I can think of is making sure the motor will fit in the front forks. I had a some hassle by spreading my forks with a car jack and grinding down the flats on the motor.

.

nutsandvolts said:

Check out this cargo
http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/

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4th from the top. The guy with the bike hanging from a rope. I could do that. 8)

The guy with the fridge; I've done similar (only it was a shelf thing from woodshop).

Don't know how to say this, but most of those pictures in that link is Vietnam, my home country. Yeah it's common there for people to load their vehicle like that. You got to admit though. Those old motorcycle are way over engineered. They take a beating and keep on ticking. At the same time most of these country have displacement limit on motorcycle. So some of those are only like 50cc.

I run the BD36, and live on a mesa 700 vertical feet above the valley where I work. The BD, or other brushed motors really climb hills. Fortunately for me, the grocery store is not down the hill, so I use a Schwinn trike for my grocery getter. See dogmans bikes in the pic section. This type of setup would do you if you run it at 48 volts. Both BD abd BL can have a battery added by buying one more battery and a 48v charger. When I was riding this bike to work, I got killer cramps in my legs climbing the hill since it is a one speed. I bought the trike at wall mart for 250, you order it online. There is a three speed version of this bike, but I don't know where to get it. The BL will also climb hills, but slower, and on a trike this is ok. Trikes get sketchy above 15mph since they don't like to turn. The BL seems to get atl least 2 or more miles more range. With your hill, 6 to 8 miles will be the max on the 36v bd kit using the stock batteries. I love my trike, but maybe for you the best bet would be some big ol rear baskets on a no rear suspension bike. You could fit two bags of groceries in it, and have room for the battery on top. this is the pannier type basket setup. Or just some nice panniers. A trailer would also work, but bear in mind the weight. Don't try to get back up that hill with 10 bags of groceries. If you are going to use the WE, or any other front hub, be sure to get steel forks. A Very few steel suspension forks are out there that can fit a hubmotor so measure the clearance 5" from the axle carefully, if you buy a suspension bike. The kind that fit tend to have a welded on dropout. I'll be posting soon how to get more clearance on the pinched tube type suspension forks.

You don't mention budget, but if you have a bit more than a thou to spend, get a lifepo4 battey asap. With a 20 ah, range will not be an issue, and then the BD kit will go faster and get up the hill real good.

Money no object, ideal set up for groceries. Trike or extracycle, geared hubmotor, 36v 20ah lifepo4. Geared motors will cost ya about $600 or more, but for hills they rock.

Hi everyone - thanks for all the great replies!

Although I want to use the bike for running errands, I'm really only talking about a couple of bags at a time. I think I should be ok with baskets or panniers. I definitely don't think I need something like the xtracycle or a cargo bike

I'm a little concerned about battery life from what everyone is saying. I guess I was assuming I'd be able to get 10 miles with the standard 36v sla batteries. Hopefully since I plan to pedal the bike, I can stretch that out a bit. I'll have to think about that - maybe I can start with the standard sla, and add another to get to 48v, if I need it. It seems like there's a wait to get some of the other battery technologies now - although I did see that batteryspace.com seems to have some of the alternatives available: Li-Ion and NiMH, at least. If I get a pack from there is it straightforward to hook it up to the controller, etc?? It just seems like everything is all 'plug and play' with the WE kits, which is why that was appealing to me, at least to start with Do people think it makes sense to get sla batteries now and then upgrade, or to try to get something better from the outset?

As far as bikes go, I'm not planning on getting anything with a suspension, so I don't think I should have a problem with the hub motor, as long as I make sure the forks have enough clearance. I'm just planning on a moderately priced hybrid/comfort-type bike. For cost for this first venture, I'd like to keep around a thousand (or less!) to start with.

NiCd is a better value, even in the short term.

More power
Less sag
Less weight
Faster charging
>10x lifespan

safe said:

I'd advise that you just go to WalMart and buy their entry level ebike for whatever ($375?) and just get started.

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I totally disagree (respectfully ). Get the most kit you can for the money you have to work with because I promise you that the second you get on the thing you'll want more... whether more power, more speed, more range... all of the above... you'll want more. If you cheap out you'll just end up spending 3x as much in the end with "upgrades", which still won't likely get you where you would have been spending as much as you can initially.

.02

safe said:

There is a tendency here for people to suggest the most complicated and expensive solution as a "necessity" when it really isn't.

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Having said the above this is pretty true.

It's true that the Izip, found in some wallmarts is a good buy. I just can't say about the performance since I know little about them. They seem to work ok from what I've heard. It's a dilemma on a WE kit. You know the BD is going to come up short on range, and the BL may just make it the ten miles at factory voltage. But you will peadle harder up that hill on a BL. And you will be 5 mph slower on the BL at the same voltage. If the hill is REALLY steep, you may want 48 volts with either kit, and then with either kit, you will have the range, though maybe not at full throttle. I give real ranges in my posts, which means some good hills and riding full throttle. One thing about hills, you do get a free ride down. If your hill is really only steep to a peadal only bike, like 5%, get the BL and try it, and if it climbs poorly, add another battery. If you ride slow with a 4th battery you will get enough range with either kit. I just get lousy range riding fast all the time.

Hi everyone,
I have been trying to find two things. One male power cord or adapter that fits the ct schwinn izip does anyone one have any leads on this? It would be neat to just plug in some new batterries. Does anyone have a easy way to do this?
2. Are there any pic's and easy diy on any threads that will show me how to connect another 12volt battery to the izip battery pack in series? kind of a youtube or? There is nothing out there that can help us newbies join the speed crew....am i missing a thread here?
Many Thanks
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