Ebike build for my 20 mile (1 way) commute (oh and an Intro)

kfisherx

100 µW
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
8
Location
Portland Or
Hi guys. I have been lurking for awhile and finally decided to join proper and introduce myself. My name is Karla. I am a 50 year old SW Engineer living just about an hour outside of Portland OR. I am a hobby bike rider but love it enough to have a decent road bike, a cyclocross bike and just last year I bought a NeoCross ebike. My commute from my farm to Intel is 19 miles 1 way on rolling hills. I have one pretty darned steep and gravel hill that I have to take that is about 1.5 miles in length. I bought the cross as my commuter bike but am not very happy with it as the frame is too large and it is slightly under powered for my tastes. As such, I am looking to find a bike that better fits my smaller frame and one that is more custom to the power that I need.

I am a bike rider more than a motorcycle rider and this is why I chose the Cross as my first ebike versus a bike like the Stealth. It got up good enough speed for me (I can go 25 mph on the flat with almost no effort) and it felt like a bike to ride.

Things I love about the Cross:
Big diameter tires (28inches)
Nice shifters
Great brakes
Lock out shocks
Takes the gravel road at 22 MPH with confidence
Lightweight (only about 48lbs)
Hardtail concept
350 Watt geared motor that does not have drag when I want to peddle
Half twist throttle
The peddle assist option (versus manually twisting)
The ability to lock in everything and take off the computer

Things I want to change about the Cross:
torque or uphill power
Battery is only 9AH and really does not make my commute unless I pedal a lot (16-18 miles is all)
frame is too big
Charger too big
Battery built into frame and huge

What I am thinking:
Hardtail 29er (I have not yet found the bike I like that fits me) or some sort of cross bike that is comfy on dirt roads but primarily made for road riding
2 15 AH batteries 48V and 25Amp
350 watt geared motor (back or front? haven't decided)

My question for the board is this... Am I being unrealistic in building this bike? Should I just go ahead and build a super powered bike for such a long commute with a direct drive? I want to be able to sustain 20-25 mph for the long stretches of long and rolling roads (9 mile stretch) with very little effort on my part on days that I am too tired to peddle.

Money is no object in this equation...
 
kfisherx said:
My question for the board is this... Am I being unrealistic in building this bike?

Yes.

Should I just go ahead and build a super powered bike for such a long commute with a direct drive? I want to be able to sustain 20-25 mph for the long stretches of long and rolling roads (9 mile stretch) with very little effort on my part on days that I am too tired to peddle.

So you're commiting to a perpetual one hour each way commute? How long has this NeoCross been taking to get you there? How has the SEAT been?

Days you're 'Too tired to pedal?' I should think you must be a Triathloner. 38 miles of hills each day, with a day of work inbetween. You're only riding a pedal assist at the moment. I wonder if there's anyone here in that league to discuss this with you.

Money is no object in this equation...

http://electriccyclery.com/catalog/easy-motion-cross-p-382.html
 
Well, it will always take a fairly large battery to go 20 mph at 20+ mph. So that's not going anywhere. But there are battery types that take up less space. I think you will need at least 48v 15 ah, or 36v 20 ah.

Ideally, that space is the frame triangle. But you don't sound like you are 5'11" tall. So once you get your ideal frame, you might not have room for all of that battery in the frame triangle. Depending on how the fit is, do try to find a frame that can fit a triangle bag from EM3ev in the frame. If that won't work, we can explore other options.

EM3ev has motors you should like. Particularly the Mac in the 10t winding. It will power up that hill much better, but still allow freewheeling when you want it.

Charger. Buy another, and keep it at work.

You know the old saying, you get to have 2 of the 3 things your design needs. Start with the number one need, and get a 26" bike that fits you. You can't stand that much riding on something that fits poorly. Most of us here agree that larger wheels are no advantage when using a hubmotor.

Don't completely rule out a good step through bike. I have seen a big battery carried quite well on top of a step though bikes top bar. But if you can't straddle it with a shoebox on the top, it won't work.
 
I've been doing my 20 mile hilly (1500ft vert) commute this year with a new 2014 BionX system on my TI road bike (around 1000 miles on the system since i bought it 5 weeks ago). I average 20-21mph with the Bionx (unlocked) but it uses 100% of the 8.8ah battery each way. I'd give it another month or two before it starts to turn itself off before i get to my destination.

I'm planning on getting the 25.5ah battery from cell_man and combine it with either the 500w Falco hub motor (I am weary of this because the Falco is VERY close to max voltage with the cell_man battery hot off the charger), or a 8T MAC / v3 CA / THUN torque sensor setup. I would like to maintain the nice "feel" of the bionx as much as possible.

Anyhow those are my plans for a similar commute. Such a ride isn't for everyone but i've been doing it on and off for years unassisted.
 
Hi Karla~
as said....you are pretty much in a class of your own, in terms of your efforts. However, I can really relate to your particular commute.(which I did, unassisted for a few years, before being deeply provoked into electric) I'm 58, and was pretty buggered up by a motorcycle wreck a few years back...and bicycling has never been quite the same. I was, at the time of my first build, living in the mountains above Calistoga, Ca...and in every single direction from my house, someone had put mountains in my way. Calistoga was pretty close, but had a three-mile grade that averaged 12%, with a half-mile stretch of 18% thrown in for good measure. My usual destination was 20 miles away, and there was no getting around the 1300 ft I had to do, regardless of the route. I had to build up my courage, every morning I took off. Zero shoulders, insanely curvey roads, and aggressive drivers who seems to hate bikers. It took me two years of careful study, to plan my first build. Wow...talk about a change of scenery.~~!! I actually built two bikes, sort've at the same time. My first, a hardtail diamondback with a 9Continents 5804 on 55v. That would do the 20 mile commute, but not the three mile hill (far too hot) I also built a dual-susp FXR Specialized with a BMC geared (torque-version), also on 55v. That bike will climb anything I put in front of it, though top speed is 25mph. The 9C will do 30+. I am not about speed anymore. I'm about safe arrival. I'd recommend either the Mac, geared high...or the BMC (S-version). BMC is expensive....but very high quality. You pile up the miles with your lifestyle, and it sounds like you are committed, so why experiment with longevity or reliability? 48V would do you fine, because you contribute so much (this might change, with a taste of the throttle, on a bike that can actually do it on it's own). But the actual specifics of the one big hill you do, could make things cheaper for you. What length and what grade and what weight is involved? I am astounded that you managed your commute on your eency battery all this time. Take your time, and consider all the great advice you can get on this forum.....because these guys have done it all.
Best wishes.
 
If we are talking cost-is-no-object then a custom built frame to your requirements for fit, handling, battery placement and so forth is a real possibility, you are in an area with more custom bike builders than most so finding one to do the job shouldn't be a problem. That's a lot of time to spend on a bike every day and comfort counts for a lot at your age (I'm older so I can say that with some confidence :) ).

If I were doing it for me, again cost-is-no-object, I'd go with a 750W Bafang crank drive or a similarly rated hub motor and something like 14s8p of the latest tech 18650 cells. A direct drive hub motor would probably get the nod just for the sheer reliability factor you need in a daily rider with that long of a commute. The Falco DD hub is intriguing to me since after 4,000+ miles on geared hubbie the more I really like the idea of a completely silent drive and supposedly the Falco also has almost no cogging for free pedaling when unpowered. Another argument in favor of the Falco is a built in torque sensor that if set up properly would be brilliant for pedelec style riding with a throttle override.
 
Dauntless said:
Days you're 'Too tired to pedal?' I should think you must be a Triathloner. 38 miles of hills each day, with a day of work inbetween. You're only riding a pedal assist at the moment. I wonder if there's anyone here in that league to discuss this with you.

LOL! Yes. I am a biker and this is actually pretty common practice in the biking world to ride 20 miles at a shot (it is physically equal to about a 4-5 mile run). That said I am also not riding this every day. I try to commute this distance on my road bike 2 or more days per week. My road bike weighs about 17lbs and it takes me right around 1.5 hours one way. I cannot do this more than 2 days a week though as it wears me out and the older I get.... The whole purpose of me buying the ebike was to be able to ride more often and make this an actual daily commute even without making it a motorbike ride. My ebike only saves about 30 min from my commute BUT I am significantly less tired and sweaty so it does its job just fine in that respect. My overriding goal in getting an ebike is to keep the bike light (under 50lb) and to make it so I can ride like a bike but to be able to ride more days a week or every day of the week while still getting in exercise.

I will try to answer the other questions I saw:

Hills: I have only 1 hill that is gravel about 1.5 miles long that is a steep grade, (pretty darned steep grade in some places) and 1 hill that is a also long (about .5 miles) but not really steep. Outside of that the hills are rolling so not really a big deal or anything like mountains. I can drift many of them on my road bike at 18-22 mph entry and I ride in my largest derailleur the whole ride on most days even over the .5 mile one.

Battery: With respect to battery and bike size. My goal is two different 15 Ah batteries and 2 chargers. I will keep on charging at work and keep one for home. So the battery pack only needs to be 15 AH size. Since I can do the commute on my 9AH 36V bike now (only 1-2 miles short for me), I am pretty confident that 15AH will do the job at 48V.

Bike: I am not too concerned about finding the right bike that will fit me as I am pretty easy to fit. The Cross bike is really only big for me when I try to dismount not so much when I am riding. It is dangerous on the dismount because the cross bar nails me (down there) if I do not get off on tip toes. It is also really hard for me to swing my leg over. Once I am up there and on the move, the fit is not too bad. The saddle is actually very comfortable. I know I can find either a 29er or a cross bike that will work just fine for me as I know how to fit bikes. My dilemma on this right now is making the decision between the two. I really, really like how the hardtail (29er-like) bike rides on the gravel road and on the real road, if I lock out the shocks, it is not bad at all. I think that I would be okay with the way a cross bike rides on the gravel road (not nearly as comfortable) but would like the ride on the real roads even better. All the bikes I am looking at weigh in under 24lb. I see several options out there but do not want to buy the bike until I have the components worked out. I will then buy the bike, break it in and fit it, hand my list of ebike parts to a local builder and have the bike built up. I am learning about bikes and repair in my free time now but am not confident in my skills to do the build myself at this time.

Tires: I know myself as a biker. I could not do 26ers for a commute. They are great for dirt and mud, but for distance on hard surface, there is not a gear big enough for me to ride with any sort of satisfaction. I suppose I could custom gear the bikes, but I have yet to find a 26er that I like gear-wise out of the box. 700c is my tire size of choice. On the big fat hybrid tires on my cross, I LOVE the 28s. I haven't ridden a 29er yet, but I suspect that these will work for me out of the box as well. I ride my road bike and my cross bike on the biggest derailleur most of the time on rides. I have very powerful legs and like to ride at 15-25 mph when I ride.

I have some other questions based on your suggestions and will break them out to make it more readable.
 
dogman said:
EM3ev has motors you should like. Particularly the Mac in the 10t winding. It will power up that hill much better, but still allow freewheeling when you want it.

I found this motor with a google search but it looks as though it is only in 500w or 1000w direct drive. Does this really allow freewheeling or is there a lighter version 350 that is geared? I am looking to keep things as light as possible and my current geared 350 motor is almost there. My hope is that by moving from 36v to 48v that I get that extra punch that I need for those few spots I need it. It is just a tiny bit under and I could even live with it the way it is. Just a few steep parts where I really have to peddle.
 
mgurtzweiler said:
I've been doing my 20 mile hilly (1500ft vert) commute this year with a new 2014 BionX system on my TI road bike (around 1000 miles on the system since i bought it 5 weeks ago). I average 20-21mph with the Bionx (unlocked) but it uses 100% of the 8.8ah battery each way. I'd give it another month or two before it starts to turn itself off before i get to my destination.

I'm planning on getting the 25.5ah battery from cell_man and combine it with either the 500w Falco hub motor (I am weary of this because the Falco is VERY close to max voltage with the cell_man battery hot off the charger), or a 8T MAC / v3 CA / THUN torque sensor setup. I would like to maintain the nice "feel" of the bionx as much as possible.

Anyhow those are my plans for a similar commute. Such a ride isn't for everyone but i've been doing it on and off for years unassisted.

Okay now you are doing almost exactly what I am thinking. I have looked very closely at the SL350 48v model but the battery... Only 8 AH. (Ugggg too little for the 2K price point esp) This kit also appealed to me because I think I can install it myself. I also think I could mount it on my existing Volpe Cyclocross bike (If you but it on your TI, I know I can do it on my cross). This kit is the closest thing I have found to what I want but I went with the Neo Cross instead due to the battery size on this kit.

Are you planning on mounting this 500w Falco also on your TI as well?
 
dannyboyohyeah said:
Hi Karla~
as said....you are pretty much in a class of your own, in terms of your efforts. However, I can really relate to your particular commute.(which I did, unassisted for a few years, before being deeply provoked into electric) I'm 58, and was pretty buggered up by a motorcycle wreck a few years back...and bicycling has never been quite the same. I was, at the time of my first build, living in the mountains above Calistoga, Ca...and in every single direction from my house, someone had put mountains in my way. Calistoga was pretty close, but had a three-mile grade that averaged 12%, with a half-mile stretch of 18% thrown in for good measure. My usual destination was 20 miles away, and there was no getting around the 1300 ft I had to do, regardless of the route. I had to build up my courage, every morning I took off. Zero shoulders, insanely curvey roads, and aggressive drivers who seems to hate bikers. It took me two years of careful study, to plan my first build. Wow...talk about a change of scenery.~~!! I actually built two bikes, sort've at the same time. My first, a hardtail diamondback with a 9Continents 5804 on 55v. That would do the 20 mile commute, but not the three mile hill (far too hot) I also built a dual-susp FXR Specialized with a BMC geared (torque-version), also on 55v. That bike will climb anything I put in front of it, though top speed is 25mph. The 9C will do 30+. I am not about speed anymore. I'm about safe arrival. I'd recommend either the Mac, geared high...or the BMC (S-version). BMC is expensive....but very high quality. You pile up the miles with your lifestyle, and it sounds like you are committed, so why experiment with longevity or reliability? 48V would do you fine, because you contribute so much (this might change, with a taste of the throttle, on a bike that can actually do it on it's own). But the actual specifics of the one big hill you do, could make things cheaper for you. What length and what grade and what weight is involved? I am astounded that you managed your commute on your eency battery all this time. Take your time, and consider all the great advice you can get on this forum.....because these guys have done it all.
Best wishes.

Thanks for this. My ride is actually quite pleasant compared to yours. I can get up my steepest hill on my 350 watt motor just fine but I do have to really peddle in a couple of spots. I am not sure of the grade but I am also not thinking that I would burn my 350 motor up on my ride. :) I am very interested in your second build. I want the torque. 25 mph is fine for me so long as it does this for 20 miles. :) If I go 55v versus 48, how much weight do I add? Will I then need to upgrade my battery pack or could I still do it on 15 AH?

Okay just looked up the BMC and really like what it is. This is a very good pointer! Thanks so much.
 
Get an elf and load it up with 25ah or more batteries.
http://organictransit.com/
 
kfisherx said:
dogman said:
EM3ev has motors you should like. Particularly the Mac in the 10t winding. It will power up that hill much better, but still allow freewheeling when you want it.

I found this motor with a google search but it looks as though it is only in 500w or 1000w direct drive. Does this really allow freewheeling or is there a lighter version 350 that is geared? I am looking to keep things as light as possible and my current geared 350 motor is almost there. My hope is that by moving from 36v to 48v that I get that extra punch that I need for those few spots I need it. It is just a tiny bit under and I could even live with it the way it is. Just a few steep parts where I really have to peddle.

I've got the MAC kit from em3ev, so can give you a few pointers.

Did you find the kit here: http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=55 ?

The MAC has a planetary gear arrangement inside to connect the rotor to the wheel, so it's "geared". Freewheel is possible - the freewheel (and gear set) screws onto the motor housing. Threaded freewheel sets are widely available (and em3ev stock them, too). When not using the motor, the bike still works as normal (there's little to no drag, but you do notice the weight a bit).

They claim that the MAC built into a wheel weighs 4.3kg - is this much more than your current wheel?
 
kfisherx said:
mgurtzweiler said:
I've been doing my 20 mile hilly (1500ft vert) commute this year with a new 2014 BionX system on my TI road bike (around 1000 miles on the system since i bought it 5 weeks ago). I average 20-21mph with the Bionx (unlocked) but it uses 100% of the 8.8ah battery each way. I'd give it another month or two before it starts to turn itself off before i get to my destination.

I'm planning on getting the 25.5ah battery from cell_man and combine it with either the 500w Falco hub motor (I am weary of this because the Falco is VERY close to max voltage with the cell_man battery hot off the charger), or a 8T MAC / v3 CA / THUN torque sensor setup. I would like to maintain the nice "feel" of the bionx as much as possible.

Anyhow those are my plans for a similar commute. Such a ride isn't for everyone but i've been doing it on and off for years unassisted.

Okay now you are doing almost exactly what I am thinking. I have looked very closely at the SL350 48v model but the battery... Only 8 AH. (Ugggg too little for the 2K price point esp) This kit also appealed to me because I think I can install it myself. I also think I could mount it on my existing Volpe Cyclocross bike (If you but it on your TI, I know I can do it on my cross). This kit is the closest thing I have found to what I want but I went with the Neo Cross instead due to the battery size on this kit.

Are you planning on mounting this 500w Falco also on your TI as well?

Yes I plan on mounting whatever I put together onto my existing TI commuter bike. If BionX only offered a 11ah or so battery I think it would be perfect. I think I'm just draining it too much with each leg of my commute to really have the cells last.

Now I could be completely wrong.. Maybe they built in a very healthy margin into their battery gauge to support their 2 year warranty. I am also setting on the fence waiting for a nice 60-70deg day here to see if maybe it's just the 30deg weather thats hurting my range.

I did the install myself in no time. The 2014 model has a cassette mount (no need for crappy freewheel clusters) BUT they went back to using a press-fit torque blocker. They used to have a system where you would order a part to match your dropouts but they changed this for 2014. So you'll need to get a tool (i tied a 3 jaw puller but i couldn't get it myself. It is on there TIGHT and the jaws on the puller kept slipping off) or find a shop near you to pop it off and orient the axel in the correct position.
 
wesnewell said:
Get an elf and load it up with 25ah or more batteries.
http://organictransit.com/

Dude LOVE this!!! But it weighs 150lbs and has only 48v and 600watts. Me thinks this ain't gonna be climbing no hills like I need. Seriously though, I would totally buy something like this if it had actual power.

Alas, if I was to spend this much and got this heavy and/or opt to do a recumbent (I do have a trike too and have thought about it), I would do the Outrider 422.

http://www.electricbike.com/outrider-usa-electric-trike/

I don't think this can be beat.
 
Custom frame.

For which I am happy to help ;)
 
It is a mid drive with a 3 speed or optional N360 hub for if you want/need it. 600W is plenty when you consider the gears. And one can always increase battery capacity. Of course one could build a tadpole etrike for a lot less that would go a lot faster and farther if they wanted to.
 
Re the mac, yes it is heavier than what you have now I'm sure. But it also sounds like just giving your existing motor more power and speed with 48v will do you. So really, you perhaps only need a different controller and a new battery. It's quite possible your 36v controller can run on 48v. Many do. Open it, and if it has 63v capacitors inside go for it. The caps look like little cans, with a number on the side for voltage.

Re the 26" wheel, yes, you may have to choose a bike carefully to get a high speed and still pedal hard. I just wanted to point out that the hubmotor itself hates climbing steep hills at lower rpm, so 26" wheels are bad enough for being too big. The catch 22 is that many mtb type bikes cannot mount a bigger front ring than 48t. If your biggest gear is 48-14, then pedaling hard faster than 20 mph is difficult. It's a dilemma, but it can be solved. My favorite ride is a "frankenbike" a longtail cargo bike homemade from two old frames. The front frame was chosen for two things, a large battery space, and a frame that could handle my 56t front chainring. Anyway, my point is, 26" wheel does not mean you cannot possibly have a high gear. But it may be hard to find that frame that works good. Finding an 11t screw on freewheel will help, most motors come with only a 14t for the smallest rear gear.

I understand your love of a big wheel, but if you go bigger on the wheel, then you need to choose from the slower versions of hubmotors, such as the Mac 10t, rather than the mac 6t. Find something with a 36v rpm less than 400. A fast motor and larger wheel will have a nice top speed, but it will run hot, and waste your battery making that heat.

I don't know what speed your cross motor is now. But if it's on the fast side, then that is a BIG part of why it's so wimpy on the hills. You could be making up to 200 of your 350w into heat. You mentioned 25 mph, which is possible on 26" wheels with an 11t rear cog. But 30 mph would be harder to do on typical 26" bike gearing.
 
How about a chain drive kit, cell-man sells them now too, along with his frame mount batteries, the bafang 750 watt sounds to be powerful enough when you can use the bike gears.

I love my bosch chain drive, it climbs 25%, sure that's with a lot of peddling but it can do it without even been warm to touch. Compared to most hub motors stalling and burning. The bosch can do it with 500 watts 700 peak compared to a magic pie @ 3kw which was roasting and burned the halls and I probably de-magnetised it a bit also, it was never right after. It's something a mac 8-10 and possibly 12 t would struggle to get up also for the same power.

The bosch is limited to 17.5 mph but it doesn't bother me. You can get the 30 mph version or use a dongle.

So the bafang might pull well and be a bit faster at 750 watts.

The beauty of chain drive is you can climb hills with much less power, the bosch gets me about 40-50 miles easily and I climb some long steep hills and only charge to 80% and always return with about 20 %, but I like to pedal a lot. And that's with a 36v 11ah battery. But motor cuts out at 17.5 mph which helps.

A mac 8 t will climb most normal hills faster using a lot more power but for the steepest stuff with sane power levels and on slow awkward trails then chain drive is king.

For all out power of course then a direct drive motor in a 20 inch wheel and 5 kw+ of power will be a lot of fun but it will be heavy and it's not a bicycle any more and it wouldn't be easy to pedal.

Sorry for rambling on a bit just my 2 cents.
 
"Learn to crawl before you walk"

I've been of the opinion that one comes out of the ebike gates using 250-350watts of assist. That's the European standard pretty much. It's still enough to decrease your exertion level on the hilly stuff, yet give you most of the exercise benifits. At this power level, your range will be excellent as well. You are an older fit rider and I see nothing wrong with you getting a little assistance for your 20/40 mile commute.

On the other hand :wink: , you may be the type of person where you would have wanted more power right off the bat. That's my personality trait, and IMHO most folks here who get a taste of silent motor assist, this is their trait as well. In this case, you put find a motor that can take at least 1000watts of power (i.e. geared MAC 10T, direct drive 9c or similar) and you start flying.

Both my electric bikes in my signature are out of commission for the time being so I'm forced to ride my original nonpowered bike for commuting. I've been doing this for a few weeks now. I rode in the snow today, and found that my level of satisfaction was quite high after the commute, probably because I put in the extra effort. Now If I had done the same ride on my 250watt bike vs. my 1500watt bike, I'd probably have to go with the 250watt, mainly because you still have to put in a bit of effort, which is a reward unto itself.

This isn't advice on telling you where your path lies, but just my opinion of things. Bicycles are funny, they are fairly cheap to obtain, in some cases downright a steal. If you don't like the way your bike works, just make another. If anything, you learned a few things along the way.

Good luck on your choice. There are alot of them out there. lol
 
dogman said:
Re the mac, yes it is heavier than what you have now I'm sure. But it also sounds like just giving your existing motor more power and speed with 48v will do you. So really, you perhaps only need a different controller and a new battery.

Ding, Ding, Ding! That is exactly what I am deciding here.... I really only want to upgrade my controller and motor and I would do that except (and it is a big one), it is all built into the frame of the bike and combined in such a way that taking it apart would void its warranty. It is a pretty high end (AKA 3k US dollars) ebike. This (combined with the bike being slightly too large for me) is why I am considering building a custom ebike. The experience of having this bike has given me the references I need to know of what I like in ebike world. Honestly, this bike would be okay if I could just get a bigger battery (15 AH) but it would be better if I could get a bigger battery AND get more torque for hills. I like the top end speed just fine. It cruises on the flat at 22-25 mph with small effort and that is a good speed for bike riding. Any faster and I would be opening myself up for injury/accidents. (Even at 22-25, the bumps and obstacles come up quickly on the bike lane) I am not worried about finding a bike to build out. There are many possibilities that fit me just fine. I can do once I set my mind to it but I want to wait until I have selected my components. I need to find the right combination of 350 watt gear motor (or comparable mid) that can take 48V/25 Amp, the right controller that will do 48V (25 Amp) and appropriate cycle analyst. Once I have this, I will buy the bike and have it built up.
 
o00scorpion00o said:
How about a chain drive kit, cell-man sells them now too, along with his frame mount batteries, the bafang 750 watt sounds to be powerful enough when you can use the bike gears.

To be honest I have not looked very hard at mid drive.... Here in Portland we have a company called EcoSpeed. I looked at them when I first started shopping for ebike (a few years back) but could not understand the 2k price-point for their motors. Perhaps I should give them another look.
 
kfisherx said:
o00scorpion00o said:
How about a chain drive kit, cell-man sells them now too, along with his frame mount batteries, the bafang 750 watt sounds to be powerful enough when you can use the bike gears.

To be honest I have not looked very hard at mid drive.... Here in Portland we have a company called EcoSpeed. I looked at them when I first started shopping for ebike (a few years back) but could not understand the 2k price-point for their motors. Perhaps I should give them another look.

Well, upgrading your current setup is probably the cheapest way to go, But I love the neatness of integrated motor and controller that some Chain drives offer.

If it's torque you want then chain drive maybe the best way to go and sell your current motor and old controller here on the Sphere.

Check out the non hub motor section and see if you can compare the Bafang to the Bosch, despite the Bosch being advertised as a 250 watt motor it's actually 500 watts with 750 peak, using the bike gears makes a huge difference and the best option for less power. So if the Bafang is in or around the same as the Bosch power wise it will blast the 350 watt hub out of it altogether.

You can get the bafang with throttle and unlimited meaning maybe 20 odd mph but ask on the bafang threads in the non hub motor section.

But it's amazing the hills you can climb with only 500 watts 700 peak compared to 3kw going up a 20-25% slope with a magic pie which is a high torque wind. Granted the pie did it faster but it got absolutely roasting and fried the halls. It was hard to pedal the Bosch at 20-25% as it will not climb without peddling and I've dodgy knees. ( but I need to do another test because I think the Sram hub wasn't in the lowest gear and it won't change down under full load)

The Mac would have probably completely burned under the same conditions and less power, and most likely would have stalled at the power levels required so it would not burn.

The Mac 8T at 48V and 40 amps or 2kw is pretty powerful. But requires a lot more power and won't be able for the slowest steepest trails or roads.

If I had a 40 mile commute ( I have 84 mile round trip commute ) I couldn't imagine being on a bicycle 5 days a week for even half of it.

But I did have to cycle 40 miles a day then I would have a mac 8T on at least 48V and 40 amps while cruising under normal level (ish) ground it will never burn and it will take decent hills with peddling.

Why would I choose this setup ? because while the Bosch (non 30 mph) is perfect for me while cycling for exercise or pleasure, it would be far far too slow for a 40 mile commute. The 8T mac will top out about 31 mph and 40 amps @48V, I'd imaging for 40 miles you'd want at least a 40 ah battery like a ping and that'g going to be 20 kgs of battery alone. But the LiFeP04 offers the longest life still to this day over all chemistries available while obviously heavier and bulkier.
 
I converted an older full suspension 26" mountain using a 1000 watt (max allowed in Cal.) 48v system. My daily commute is about 11 miles and is all street with some hills, traveling at about 26 to 30 MPH to limit the number of cars that have to pass me by. 30 MPH is pretty much the limit I would want to ride a E-bike on the street as hitting a pot hole or rut at that speed can cause some serious problems. I can get by with 15ah of LIPOs one way, but I prefer using 20ah and having the extra reserve of power in case I need to do a side trip. Total weight about 110 LBS with two cargo boxes. I also up graded the tires, inner tubes, and rims. Having put over 3500 miles and I'm sold on having the added power of 1000 watt over a smaller system and having a full suspension bike.

Recently, I did a couple of 22+ miles trips on a bike trail 80% with the rest on local streets with 25ah battery pack Because my speed on the trail was limited to 17 to 24 MPH, I still had about 20 % reserve power left, so I could have done the trip on 20 ah of batteries.

If removing most of your equipment and batteries is required I think a rear and front bike rack is needed. You can now balance the load by putting some of your equipment in the front and back, that is what I do. I also carry a fabric cover for my bike when I park. Helps keeps the sun out as well as prying eyes.
 
Kfisher I think messing with the bike you have now would be a headache and mistake.
I would start over with a frame that would fit a triangle battery from em3ev 50v if fits or a bottle stlye battery of there's 12ah or larger if fits. Make a cardbox of the battery to see if it fits. Pluss a mac 10t motor kit a C.A. and a 48t 11t setup for peddling. How tall are you ? Plus 26in. works well.
 
I see. The original bike is hard to modify. FWIW 25 amps at 48v is 1300 watts, so a good match for the larger Mac.

15 amps can be tolerated by smaller motors. That's 700w or so, enough to cruise 25 mph. You are close to that now.
 
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