Thank you everyone

So, I've been scouring this forum and doing research online for the last week. I still feel pretty lost with where I start out and whom do I buy from mid-drive vs.Hub etc.
I have a 2009 Gt Avalanche mt. Bike that I want to put a kit on. My budget is around $1000.00. The main purpose would be for commuting and possibly getting back into riding some downhill trails. My commute to work is about 8 miles with a couple of steep hills. I'm leaning towards a bafang 750w, but really have no idea.
Here's what I know. I need a motor,controller, battery,charger and possibly a torque arm.
If any one would like to help me make a desicion based on my needs I would be very appreciative.
I live in Glendale,Ca. And my commute to work is to Hollywood if anybody is familiar.
Additionally, my electrical knowledge is extremely limited but have picked up a few things here and there since visiting several websites.
I apologize in advance for being such a noob. You guys probably get annoyed by all of us.

Unless you plan on telling people where you are in every post, do this.
Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.
Take your pick.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=48v+1000w&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

I never tire of noobs myself. I was so green at one point, and wasted a lot of cash before I found ES and got good info. I like to pay it back.

I wish I could tell you if the Bafang would be better for you, but I haven't gotten to test ride one and I'm too broke to go buy one to test.

But in general, a bb drive may be the best choice if you would like to run a commute, and climb some pretty steep trails. I have not seen much of the trails in So Cal, but my impression is that they can be quite steep. Too steep for a typical hubmotor.

But a cheap and decent hubmotor conversion will climb 10% grades with no problems. And the hubbie does not have the issues with extra chain wear, or harsh shifting that comes with the bb drive. For the commute, with a hubmotor you will just leave the bike in the tallest gear all day, and ride with no thoughts other than avoiding that idiot that's texting and driving. The bb drive may require some shifting every stop.

I would vote for a rear hub motor kit for commuting, and riding on less steep dirt roads. I have not looked at the bike though, so there could be reasons why the bb kit would fit the bike better than a hub.

Got a pic of the bike, and details? Is it 7 speed or 9 in the back? Are the back dropouts strong looking or full of holes?

One interesting hubmotor in those ebay listings. The ELbikekit appears to be a slower version of the typical hubmotor.

This is the type that can do well on steep trails. But the downside is a very slow top speed on the commute. Very few like the slow motors, but I'm a huge fan of them. Run one on 72v, and they will do pretty good on trails, and go about 30 mph.

But the 72v battery tends to mean a more frankenstien battery.

I think The Bafang is the best motor... Its clean, easy to install, powerful, and nearly silent. Because its a BB drive, it let's you channel motor power thru your rear gear train.... Like having gears on a car.

However... There are some limitations on what bikes can be converted. You need a bike with a normal sized Bottom Bracket... In terms of diameter. It can be 68 mm wide, or with an adapter, a 76mm... ( on some 76mm BBs you can slice off up to 7.5 mm of the right side of the bracket shell to obtain a better chainline - but carefully measure and make sure the motor's reduction housing will still clear the right side chainstay before you cut off any metal.)

Bikes with wide diameter BB, likewise for Ashtabula cranks, or those that use eccentric BB to tension a chain... Or those really oversized carbon frame BBs... None of those are candidates for the Bafang.

Other considerations.... You may want to get rid of the knobby tires. If you aren't running off-road, those knobby tires are just going to add resistance to a road bike...eating up electricity.

likewise with suspensions... Suspensions are great for making a ride more comfy on rough terrain... But they flex under power, too...and that is just more energy that went I to flexing springs and compressing gas than went into turning the tires.

Consider the weight penalty when thinking about batteries.... If its a work commuter... You only need enough juice to get you to work... Because you can buy a second charger and recharge the battery for the ride home in the time your at work.

Thanks for the replies guys. I updated my profile as well before I posted don't know why it didn't show. Here is a pic of my bike. I tried looking at the specs for the bottom bracket but it isn't listed.

http://www.bikepedia.com/quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2008&Brand=GT&Model=Avalanche%203.0%20Disc&Type=bike

I read that the Bafang has had a little trouble. Is this blown out of proportion?

I'm also assuming that Lipos are the way to go. I think I can figure the wiring out with a little research.
So, I buy the Bafang kit,buy batteries and a charger and maybe a torque arm and I'm ready to go. Is it that simple.

I guess I need to figure out what batteries I need to buy to and from whom. Also, are there any cool hard cases that I can buy to put Lipos in?

That looks like a decent candidate for the BBS02 750W bafang. Better than my Iron Horse, I think. As long as the Bottom Bracket it 68mm or 73mm you should be OK.

As far as LiPo's, you better do your homework, there. Lots of caveats and safety concerns with LiPo. That said, I use them and they work great. Plan on getting an RC balance charger for them, though.

Here is the best bang for your buck (except they are currently out of stock):

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...P_14_8v_20C_hardcase_pack_USA_Warehouse_.html

I use them wired 3 in series for 12S (44.4V Nominal, 50.4V Hot off the charger) with the BBS02, and it works great. - If you get 6 of those batteries, you get 10 amp-hours. I can get 30 miles on 10Ah, if I just use a low PAS setting and pedal around 15-20 mph.

Best advice is to purchase the kit from em3ev.com - you can get a Bottle battery from Paul as well.
They are currently out of stock, but more should be in in a couple weeks, or so the rumor mongers claim.

It's a great kit for hills. I have a 12% grade I ride on my 10-mile commute. It does it no problem.

One thing you may want to do is find an 11T cassette for your rear gears. That should get you a top speed of around 30 MPH+

Good luck.

You have to save the profile after entering the location.
It's all pretty simple if you know what you're doing. If not, then it's not that simple. And there's lots of good info here, but there's also lots of bad info here. When you don't know what you're doing it's hard to tell the difference. There's probably more accurate info in the wiki, but I'd verify it too before taking it as fact.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Main_Page

Maybe I'm asking too much. Is there anyone that sells 6 Lipos in a already built pack? I'm a little nervous now after reading the fire fire dangers.
Also, would there be a huge performance difference when comparing the bafang 500w to the 750w? I noticed there is a $100 price difference on greenbikekit.com.

I'm trying to keep my cost at no more than $1000.00.
Also, the BB measurement is the width measure of the bottom of the crank case?

Simple818 said:

Maybe I'm asking too much. Is there anyone that sells 6 Lipos in a already built pack? I'm a little nervous now after reading the fire fire dangers.
Also, would there be a huge performance difference when comparing the bafang 500w to the 750w? I noticed there is a $100 price difference on greenbikekit.com.

I'm trying to keep my cost at no more than $1000.00.
Also, the BB measurement is the width measure of the bottom of the crank case?

Click to expand...

It's good to have a healthy fear (respect) for the potential dangers of LiPo. However, If you want to use LiPo, I suggest you just keep researching the technology, the connection/wiring harness options, and how to charge, balance and discharge safely. If you have fully researched and understand how everything works and how to build your own wiring harnesses, then you will be better equipped to know when something is NOT right and how to correct any problems.

In my signature, I provide photos and an explanation of how to build and wire up a serial harness for the bike and a parallel harness for charging with an RC balance charger. - By no means it is comprehensive, but should at least give you a general idea of what you would be in for with LiPo. Since I do NOT use a BMS, I rely on my RC balance charger to keep the cells balanced and install an alarm on each 4S pack. I am also very careful to not discharge below 44V (3.7V per cell) since below that threshold, cells can get out of balance quickly. - some forum members will probably disapprove of this and would recommend you ALWAYS use a BMS.

I am riding the 750... With an 8 speed Alfine hub. I ordered the motor Delimited from LectricCycle.

It's got a pretty wide set of gears, and it will go up a 20% grade in 1st or second at 6-10 mph. That's motor alone, full throttle. Ist on the Alfine is a 0.53 ratio...
If you decide to help it with PA set to 5 or higher, you can go up a 20% grade at about 14 mph and it feels like you're riding on level ground.
In high gear, it tops out around 27 on motor alone... But with PAS its no sweat to get it up over 35 on level ground. 8th on the Alfine is only 1.62...
So if your rear cassette offers wider gearing, you can expect proportionally different performance.
A 2.6 high gear might get you well over 30 under motor alone.


If you run the 500... I don't know how much lower the performance will be... You have to gauge the steepness of the terrain you encounter and the power you might need... But keep in mind that smaller motors are going to be running hotter than a more powerful motor on the same terrain... And as they get hotter, they lose efficiency and drain battery faster for the same milage.

My personal experience is that the 750 offers a pretty close to ideal performance envelope. Powerful enough to tackle steep terrain and give a satisfying sense of power under most riding conditions.
I wouldn't limit yourself for a measley $100.

The worst outcome would be to spend a grand and end up with a bike that is just a little underpowered for your commute...a bike that doesn't make you WANT to use it every chance you get.

I can honestly say that the 750 Bafang, on my light city bike, has me looking for every chance I can get to ride it.
I already do my grocery shopping on it... Even though I have to haul the goods 500 vertical feet back home... The Bafang makes that seem a mild workout.


Keep the knobby tires if you go off-road on your commute... But if you are riding streets... Get some puncture resistant Marathons or other road tire to get the most speed out of your ebike as possible.

teslanv said:

Simple818 said:

Maybe I'm asking too much. Is there anyone that sells 6 Lipos in a already built pack? I'm a little nervous now after reading the fire fire dangers.
Also, would there be a huge performance difference when comparing the bafang 500w to the 750w? I noticed there is a $100 price difference on greenbikekit.com.

I'm trying to keep my cost at no more than $1000.00.
Also, the BB measurement is the width measure of the bottom of the crank case?

Click to expand...

It's good to have a healthy fear (respect) for the potential dangers of LiPo. However, If you want to use LiPo, I suggest you just keep researching the technology, the connection/wiring harness options, and how to charge, balance and discharge safely. If you have fully researched and understand how everything works and how to build your own wiring harnesses, then you will be better equipped to know when something is NOT right and how to correct any problems.

In my signature, I provide photos and an explanation of how to build and wire up a serial harness for the bike and a parallel harness for charging with an RC balance charger. - By no means it is comprehensive, but should at least give you a general idea of what you would be in for with LiPo. Since I do NOT use a BMS, I rely on my RC balance charger to keep the cells balanced and install an alarm on each 4S pack. I am also very careful to not discharge below 44V (3.7V per cell) since below that threshold, cells can get out of balance quickly. - some forum members will probably disapprove of this and would recommend you ALWAYS use a BMS.

Click to expand...

How much did your setup cost? Why didn't you go through em3ev.com and save yourself a bunch of money?

Well, getting up a 20% grade is really impressive, that's why I'm getting really interested in the new crop of bb motors. We need to hear more from those that have them. Especially, we need somebody to torture one like I would.

It would be really sensible to go for the bafang 750w, and then match it with a battery from cellman at EM3ev. There is no reasons at all to go with lipo for 750w, unless you want a really small and short range pack.

I have heard one person say the chain would jump off the front sprocket, but that should be pretty easily solved by leaving the front derailleur on the bike as a chain guide.

Simple818 said:

How much did your setup cost? Why didn't you go through em3ev.com and save yourself a bunch of money?

Click to expand...

I bought mine in November from lectriccycles.com before em3ev began carrying them. I paid $750 for just the kit. At the time, LC was the only reputable vendor selling them. I do still recommend lectriccycles for custom service and speed of shipping, but they are quite a bit more expensive.

dogman said:

There is no reasons at all to go with lipo for 750w, unless you want a really small and short range pack.

Click to expand...

I would agree with that statement. LiPo is overkill for this kit. But the purchase price was cheap, and I like that I can move my battery to another bike/kit and have lots of juice to play around with. - Like the DD Hub I'm modding and installing on my FS Kona King Kikapu, with an 18-FET Lyen controller...

Yep. Part of the reason I run lico. Cheap for me to own 45 ah of it, but I can run any of my six ebikes, or my mower, on any voltage I want.

But he's going to have one ebike, and EM3ev's bottle mount battery is a good size for the commute he's going to do.

Simple818 said:

Maybe I'm asking too much. Is there anyone that sells 6 Lipos in a already built pack? I'm a little nervous now after reading the fire fire dangers.
Also, would there be a huge performance difference when comparing the bafang 500w to the 750w? I noticed there is a $100 price difference on greenbikekit.com.

I'm trying to keep my cost at no more than $1000.00.
Also, the BB measurement is the width measure of the bottom of the crank case?

Click to expand...

The main reason you don't see packs made from rc lipo is because it only takes a few minutes or seconds if you're fast to put one together. With only a 16 mile commute, 10ah of 12s lipo would be plenty. I bought a 500w direct drive hub motor over 3 years ago and then quickly ordered a 48V 1000W motor kit that I'm still using today with over 11K miles on it. A DD motor kit is the most reliable of any of them and the only one I'd choose for a commuter bike. Chain breaks, it still goes. No gears, clutches to slip or break. And you can have a 48v 1000w motor kit at your door in days for ~$250 from a company located in the US. You can also get the rc lipo from the Hobbyking US warehouse in short time. And the best part is that you'll save money buying from a US company. Here's a link on how to build am rc lipo pack.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39666

I would go with a plug and ride battery from em3ev. The lipo need a power supply for the charger you need and no lvc so close watching of the battery is a must plus ect. Make it ez to charge and ride and not a charging hobby on your first ebike.

Simple818 said:

Maybe I'm asking too much. Is there anyone that sells 6 Lipos in a already built pack? I'm a little nervous now after reading the fire fire dangers

Click to expand...

It's only 3 lipos and not the 6 Lipos like you want but here is a picture of what the already built pack you want would look like. Just 3 packs with the inside black and red wires connected together in series like a 3-cell flashlight. For the 6 packs you want, it would just be another row of these three. So you see why, if you're looking for an already built pack of 6 lipos, you probably won't find one because there's not much to it. Though you could buy an already made icecube57 harness that is wired in such a way that you might be able to disconnect and reconnect packs less often depending on the charger you get.

With a strict $1000 budget you can get a battery (like em3ev) that you'll have to pay less attention to than lipos if you'll spend less on the motor and instead get one of the $300 motor kits that wesnewell recommends. Also your bike is for commuting, you have to charge 5 days a week so less worry about charging is better.

mark5 said:

Simple818 said:

Maybe I'm asking too much. Is there anyone that sells 6 Lipos in a already built pack? I'm a little nervous now after reading the fire fire dangers

Click to expand...

It's only 3 lipos and not the 6 Lipos like you want but here is a picture of what the already built pack you want would look like. Just 3 packs with the inside black and red wires connected together in series like a 3-cell flashlight. For the 6 packs you want, it would just be another row of these three. So you see why, if you're looking for an already built pack of 6 lipos, you probably won't find one. Though you could buy an already made icecube57 harness that is wired in such a way that you might be able to disconnect and reconnect packs less often depending on the charger you get..

With a strict $1000 budget you can get a battery (like em3ev) that you'll have to pay less attention to than lipos if you'll spend less on the motor and instead get one of the $300 motor kits that wesnewell recommends. Also your bike is for commuting, you have to charge 5 days a week so less worry about charging is better.

Click to expand...

I'm starting to think this might be the better route. I just started working again and have little funds right now. I can always upgrade later on if need be. I sold my truck to save on gas money/insurance but still need reliable transportation.
There is an alternate longer route to my work that negates any hills so I'm now considering a $300.00 rear hub motor with a bottle pack. Any recommendations on a good 1000w rear hub for my mt. Bike.

Simple818 said:

I'm starting to think this might be the better route. I just started working again and have little funds right now. I can always upgrade later on if need be. I sold my truck to save on gas money/insurance but still need reliable transportation.
There is an alternate longer route to my work that negates any hills so I'm now considering a $300.00 rear hub motor with a bottle pack. Any recommendations on a good 1000w rear hub for my mt. Bike.

Click to expand...

Yeah, you can always get a different motor later. People often end up spending more on the battery than motor anyway. The YescomUSA-type motor kits that wesnewell gave you an eBay search link to above have a good reputation here, haven't seen a negative review of them yet. mcintyretj has a really good ongoing review of them here. YescomUSA is in City of Industry, not far from you, and you might be able to get a price break if you go pick it up which might partly make up for the sales tax you'll have to pay.

mark5 said:

Simple818 said:

I'm starting to think this might be the better route. I just started working again and have little funds right now. I can always upgrade later on if need be. I sold my truck to save on gas money/insurance but still need reliable transportation.
There is an alternate longer route to my work that negates any hills so I'm now considering a $300.00 rear hub motor with a bottle pack. Any recommendations on a good 1000w rear hub for my mt. Bike.

Click to expand...

Yeah, you can always get a different motor later. People often end up spending more on the battery than motor anyway. The YescomUSA-type motor kits that wesnewell gave you an eBay search link to above have a good reputation here, haven't seen a negative review of them yet. mcintyretj has a really good ongoing review of them here. YescomUSA is in City of Industry, not far from you, and you might be able to get a price break if you go pick it up which might partly make up for the sales tax you'll have to pay.

Click to expand...

So if I purchased that kit will this battery work
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=161

So, I would just need a charger and I'm set to go? Sorry again, there are just so many options out there.

999zip999 said:

I would go with a plug and ride battery from em3ev. The lipo need a power supply for the charger you need and no lvc so close watching of the battery is a must plus ect. Make it ez to charge and ride and not a charging hobby on your first ebike.

Click to expand...

+1 Go this route if it's your first time and just want to learn and ride.
8)

Simple818 said:

So if I purchased that kit will this battery work
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=161

So, I would just need a charger and I'm set to go? Sorry again, there are just so many options out there.

Click to expand...

Technically speaking it is the correct voltage but would not provide adequate discharge currents unless you just plan on riding slow. You will either be unimpressed with the power or the battery will die sooner. Ideally you want a higher discharge rated battery or a larger one. Something that can put out 25 Amps (or more) continuously.