Newbie-First Build-Battery Setup

This is my first post at ES so let me start with Hello To Everyone! I have been reading for a few weeks and decided it was time to jump in the pool. I really appreciate all of the information that so many of you have shared.

I am trying to avoid making a lot of mistakes at the beginning as my budget doesn’t have a lot of elasticity at the moment. My initial needs are for commuting and my priorities are safety then costs. I am already commuting to work at least one direction via the bike as I work odd shifts and the buses don't run at night in Phoenix. However I live on a hill and that hill is tough for me to climb at night after being on my feet for 9 hours. Now this isn't a long commute at all, one-way its only about 4.6 miles. And making the trip from my house-to-work would require little to no assist. It's the return trip that is a problem.

My bike is an inexpensive 26”, full suspension mtb. I want to stay with a mtb as my commute does not have to be via streets. I live and work near the canal system in Phoenix and it has a dedicated path for walking and biking that I use from time to time for this commute. However, only certain stretches are paved. The rest are flat, but a compact dirt/small gravel mix. I have decided to start my adventures with a Magic Pie. The new version is available at Golden Motors of Canada and it’s doable money wise. However I am starting with the battery setup first. I am looking at a 48V(44.4V)/10AH setup to start off with. I don’t have a need for speed but I didn’t want to start with 36V and feel the need to change right away. Also cost & size are a factor. I am looking to carry the batteries on the bike in a Topeak Mondo pack that will attach to the seat and seat pole.

My shopping list is:
Batteries: 4 x Turnigy 6s1p 20C Lipo pack from HK (soft side)
Charger: Turnigy Reaktor 300W 20A 6S Balance Charger from HK
Power Supply: 2 x Dell DA2 12V 18A adaptors from eBay

I am looking to charge the batteries in parallel as stated by teslanv in this thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61539&p=920538&hilit=dell+da2#p920538

In this scenario I would have the two Dell DA2’s running in series feeding the Turnigy charger. Then wire the batteries in parallel so the charger sees it as one big 6s1p battery.

The description at HK states the charger can have an input voltage of 24 volts and output up to 300W. Each DA2 can put out 12V/18A so I am hoping this will work. I am ordering the batteries ahead of the wheel so that I can initially charge each one separately to make sure they receive a balance charge first. And to also identify any dead or dying cells before proceeding.

On the bike I am looking to run the batteries as a 2s2p setup on the bike, If I have read everything correctly this should yield a 44.4V/10AH setup for the wheel. Working with the battery packs in this fashion should leave me room to expand and add another two batteries down the line if I find I need more amp-hours for more distance (2s3p yielding 44.4V/15AH).

Do this look like a solid platform to start from? Please let me know if my reasoning or calculations are off.

Thanks in advance for any feedback on my request.

It's going to be a hassle to parallel the batteries for charging. You should consider this 12s charger so you don't have to break the pack apart every time you charge.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw
I'd also consider these as better kit options.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-Electric-Bike-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Kit-eBike-Rear-Wheel-48V-1000W-/370934929537
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-/231132763662
This to monitor battery charge/voltage while riding.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-Digital-Voltmeter-DC-15V-To-120V-Red-Led-Voltage-Digital-Panel-Meter-/121103165316
And a couple of these to parallel your 12s2p pack.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__27080__JST_XH_Parallel_Balance_Lead_6S_250mm_2xJST_XH_.html

Welcome to the forum.
With a nice short commute like that, your battery spec should meet your needs. However, It would be better to pick your motor first. More voltage isn't always better, and there are 12 volt systems that outperform 100 volt systems.

As an example, since you will be riding down the hill normally, you may be better off with a geared motor like a MAC. If that's the case, I'd suggest a 10T and using a 15S battery pack. But if you're going to run an internally controlled Pie, and you want longevity from it in Arizonan heat, I'd suggest not going over a 36 volt battery.

Also, while you can charge in parallel, you shouldn't connect batteries in parallel after discharging them in series until you have balanced or recharged them. The problem is if the cells aren't balanced when you plug them in parallel, they can cause an issue, and cells discharged in series won't be balanced to each other.
For example, if the top pack has a cell that is 0.2 volts lower than a cell in the lower pack, and if the individual cell's internal resistance is 0.002 ohms, when you connect them in parallel, you'll instantly have 100 amps trying to rush through the balance lead. that will light the little wire up like a bulb filament. (Volts / resistance = Amps)
Its better to get a charger for each segment, or one for the whole pack depending on what you need.

UncleAge said:

This is my first post at ES so let me start with Hello To Everyone! I have been reading for a few weeks and decided it was time to jump in the pool. I really appreciate all of the information that so many of you have shared.

I am trying to avoid making a lot of mistakes at the beginning as my budget doesn’t have a lot of elasticity at the moment. My initial needs are for commuting and my priorities are safety then costs. I am already commuting to work at least one direction via the bike as I work odd shifts and the buses don't run at night in Phoenix. However I live on a hill and that hill is tough for me to climb at night after being on my feet for 9 hours. Now this isn't a long commute at all, one-way its only about 4.6 miles. And making the trip from my house-to-work would require little to no assist. It's the return trip that is a problem.

My bike is an inexpensive 26”, full suspension mtb. I want to stay with a mtb as my commute does not have to be via streets. I live and work near the canal system in Phoenix and it has a dedicated path for walking and biking that I use from time to time for this commute. However, only certain stretches are paved. The rest are flat, but a compact dirt/small gravel mix. I have decided to start my adventures with a Magic Pie. The new version is available at Golden Motors of Canada and it’s doable money wise. However I am starting with the battery setup first. I am looking at a 48V(44.4V)/10AH setup to start off with. I don’t have a need for speed but I didn’t want to start with 36V and feel the need to change right away. Also cost & size are a factor. I am looking to carry the batteries on the bike in a Topeak Mondo pack that will attach to the seat and seat pole.

My shopping list is:
Batteries: 4 x Turnigy 6s1p 20C Lipo pack from HK (soft side)
Charger: Turnigy Reaktor 300W 20A 6S Balance Charger from HK
Power Supply: 2 x Dell DA2 12V 18A adaptors from eBay

I am looking to charge the batteries in parallel as stated by teslanv in this thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=61539&p=920538&hilit=dell+da2#p920538

In this scenario I would have the two Dell DA2’s running in series feeding the Turnigy charger. Then wire the batteries in parallel so the charger sees it as one big 6s1p battery.

The description at HK states the charger can have an input voltage of 24 volts and output up to 300W. Each DA2 can put out 12V/18A so I am hoping this will work. I am ordering the batteries ahead of the wheel so that I can initially charge each one separately to make sure they receive a balance charge first. And to also identify any dead or dying cells before proceeding.

On the bike I am looking to run the batteries as a 2s2p setup on the bike, If I have read everything correctly this should yield a 44.4V/10AH setup for the wheel. Working with the battery packs in this fashion should leave me room to expand and add another two batteries down the line if I find I need more amp-hours for more distance (2s3p yielding 44.4V/15AH).


Do this look like a solid platform to start from? Please let me know if my reasoning or calculations are off.

Thanks in advance for any feedback on my request.

Click to expand...

I agree with wesenwell, you don't want to have to keep breaking down your pack. The Thunder 1220 is the best 12S charger I.M.O.
It only needs one server PS, roadrash is selling them here, very reasonable. If you need to use two server PS's, you have to do an isolation mod.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=59242
Get the balance cables and Voltmeter wesenwell linked and add 2 Battery Medics;
http://www.thinkrc.com/battery-medic-balancer-and-discharger-p-1723.html
They will allow you to ck and balance your pack without using the balance leads\cycle on your charger.
Cycle your new batteries on the charger a couple of times and carry enough battery that you don't have to dis-charge totally. Never below 3.6V\cell.
If you don't go below 3.8V and keep your pack intact, the need to balance will be very rare.
I build my harnesses with 12 AGW silicone wire and use 4 mm and 3.5 mm(where space is a concern) bullit connectors for all connections.
Hobby King is often out of what you want(the batteries are in stock though), but you can buy stuff from EP Buddy, RC Progressive and Hobby partz. All are good suppliers.
Order plenty of connectors and shrink fit(both red and blk. in various sizes).
When you get ready to build your harness, I can give you some more tips.

Thanks a lot for the excellent feedback. Looks like I have some more work to do.

@wesnewell:
1) That battery charger looks like it will work nicely. It will stretch the budget a bit but I may be ok. And thanks for the other linked items.
2) I looked into those other motor options as well. The all-in-one nature of the Magi Pie is probably the best fit for me right now. When I start in on the next bike I would probably rather have the BMC motor. But for now battery/controller space will be limited, thus my reason for trying the Magic Pie first.



@Drunkskunk:
The MAC or BMC is definitely preferable. However on this bike I would need to make a lot of compromises to get it to work. I am concerned about the heat but the engine will only be used at night. It’s too hot to ride during the day so I catch the bus. The buses have bike racks on the front.

The issue of 36 vs 48 volts is not an easy one for me. On one hand I’d prefer the 36V because of the smaller size of the pack and reduced cost. On the other hand I was hoping to build a better bike in the near future and thought the 48V batteries would be a good carry over to the next project. Maybe this is flawed thinking but it was my current plan.

Also, I’ll definitely remember to cycle the batteries a few times before I use them.

@Motomech:
Thanks as well for the information. Most important are the other sources of parts and supplies.

I am wondering if I will be able to hook up both 12s packs to recharge them at the same time with the Thunder 1220?

wesnewell said:

...I'd also consider these as better kit options.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-Electric-Bike-Bicycle-Motor-Conversion-Kit-eBike-Rear-Wheel-48V-1000W-/370934929537
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Cycling-Hub-Conversion-/231132763662

Click to expand...

Or how about this one? Would this setup for motor and wheel be a preferred option over the Magic Pie and the other eBay options?
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=138
w/ 9FET 30A (36V-75V IRFB4110 Controller)
w/10T upgrade
w/Thumb Throttle

I'm thinking it would give me the option to start @ 36V and move up to 48V if desired. And it seems to have some favor here on the ES boards.

UncleAge said:

Thanks a lot for the excellent feedback. Looks like I have some more work to do.

@wesnewell:
1) That battery charger looks like it will work nicely. It will stretch the budget a bit but I may be ok. And thanks for the other linked items.
2) I looked into those other motor options as well. The all-in-one nature of the Magi Pie is probably the best fit for me right now. When I start in on the next bike I would probably rather have the BMC motor. But for now battery/controller space will be limited, thus my reason for trying the Magic Pie first.

@Drunkskunk:
The MAC or BMC is definitely preferable. However on this bike I would need to make a lot of compromises to get it to work. I am concerned about the heat but the engine will only be used at night. It’s too hot to ride during the day so I catch the bus. The buses have bike racks on the front.

The issue of 36 vs 48 volts is not an easy one for me. On one hand I’d prefer the 36V because of the smaller size of the pack and reduced cost. On the other hand I was hoping to build a better bike in the near future and thought the 48V batteries would be a good carry over to the next project. Maybe this is flawed thinking but it was my current plan.

Also, I’ll definitely remember to cycle the batteries a few times before I use them.

@Motomech:
Thanks as well for the information. Most important are the other sources of parts and supplies.

I am wondering if I will be able to hook up both 12s packs to recharge them at the same time with the Thunder 1220?

Click to expand...

Yes, the Thunder charger will charge 12S. You wouldn't even have to take the pack off.
Speaking of packs, the problem I see is, where is the battery(s) going to go.
If you add a rear rack, bear in mind that the seat post on that Wally bike is none to strong. I suspect that 10 Ah of Lipo might be ok(and you can replace the seat post with a stronger one), but I would split the pack.
I'll assume that there is water bottle mounting bosses on the underside of the down tube, that is a space you need to use.
You could use a water bottle style battery or you could make your own. I use a welding rod container on my Idrive(see second link). Two 6S bricks fit perfectly. Perhaps you could find a bike bag that would fit the sm. triangle and accept two bricks. If not, they could go on the rear rack.
36V vs. 48V? That's the beauty of Lipo, you can add or reconfigure later.
In Lipo terms, that would be 10S or 12S.
12S would be 25 mph with the Pie, plenty with that bike. 25 mph feels fast to me and my bikes have disc brakes and good suspension.
11S would be 23 mph and 10S would be around 21 MPH.
If you need(or want) to use an external controller, mounting would not be a big deal. You will most likely need to add a rear rack, even to carry 10 Ah and you may want to carry 15 Ah later.

UncleAge said:

Or how about this one? Would this setup for motor and wheel be a preferred option over the Magic Pie and the other eBay options?
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=138
w/ 9FET 30A (36V-75V IRFB4110 Controller)
w/10T upgrade
w/Thumb Throttle

I'm thinking it would give me the option to start @ 36V and move up to 48V if desired. And it seems to have some favor here on the ES boards.

Click to expand...

Not by me by a long shot. Paul is a long time member here so gets a lot of recommendations from long time members, but he's in China. With shipping cost he just can't compete with the the us volume sellers. Besides, I wouldn't want a geared motor. Noisy, gears to break, cluthces to fail. You can't beat a DD motor for simplicity and reliability. That's just a fact even though others here might beg to differ.

motomech said:

Speaking of packs, the problem I see is, where is the battery(s) going to go.
If you add a rear rack, bear in mind that the seat post on that Wally bike is none to strong. I suspect that 10 Ah of Lipo might be ok(and you can replace the seat post with a stronger one), but I would split the pack.
I'll assume that there is water bottle mounting bosses on the underside of the down tube, that is a space you need to use.

Click to expand...

No water bottle mount on the underside. Instead there are brake and gear cables. Exposed. I had thought about the rack as well but thought the seat bag would be a tidy fix as I could unclick it and take it into work with me.

Yer getting a lot of conflicting advice, but you are on the right track. Nothing wrong with the pie, but for Phoenix heat, you will want to get one without the internal controller. That's fine in Canada, but not for Phoenix. You need an external controller.

Do consider a kit from Yes.com. I live in the SW desert, so I know what conditions you will ride in. A 5 mile ride in the heat of the day will be done, it will be cooler than waiting for the bus. REALLY. NO SHIT.

Notable good advice, get a better power supply. I'm not sure series connecting them will work, but if it will, fine. Particularly if you have them already. Since the power supply is the heart of your charger, you need a good solid setup.

The thunder 12s charger should be a very good investment. A few fry right out of the box, but that's no different than any other RC charger. They all can do that. Buy from a vendor that won't be a pain about it if you need a replacement on warranty.

12s is a good voltage, it will run on 36v kits too btw. 50v maximum charge is no sweat for a 36v controller, but a 48v kit will run great too. Again, look at the Yes kit, 48v 1000w. It's perfect for 12s.

Wrap those batteries in something hard before you carry them in a bag, unless you have the hardcase ones.

If you use a seatpost rack, add two braces that connect the rack to the bottom end of the seatpost tube, like this.

Dogman, thanks for the shared wisdom. I didn't give the heat factor enough weight in my planning. I get it. And that's why I am glad I posted the thread. I've got,Texas and New Mexico folk throwing out words of caution about the heat so I will adjust my plans accordingly.

Hopefully I'll avoid a few headaches and save a few bucks. Thanks again!

No doubt the Ebay DD kit is the best bang for the buck, especially for commuting, but I just reread your first post and I see a problem.
You mention your route will take you on bike paths.
Here in Tucson, Ebikes are prohibited from bike paths and I bet Phx is the same.
I ride on them for time to time, but my bikes are stealthy as I use geared mini-motors. I keep the speed down and pedal and\or coast by others.
A big DD motor and pack on the back will be a dead give away.
You might want to ride over to the trail head and see what the sign says.
I wouldn't worry about the heat too much. I have more heat related problems with the controllers than the motors. Overspec the controller or mount it in the breeze.
Sure, the heat doesn't help the motors(but it does the battery), but it's the combo of heat and hills that kill motors and I suspect you won't be seeing any big hills in PHX.

motomech said:

You mention your route will take you on bike paths.
Here in Tucson, Ebikes are prohibited from bike paths and I bet Phx is the same.

Click to expand...

I didn't notice that you from Tucson when I read your posts before. I will have to look into that issue for the canals here in Phoenix. As far as hills go we don't have steep ones like in SF, Seattle or Pittsburgh but I live up on a hill sort of. If you Google the Phoenix Mountain Preserve I am near the south side right next to Piestewa Peak(used to be Squaw Peak). The entrance is about a 1/4 mile from my house and it has miles and miles of trails. Now from my house down to Biltmore its about a 170 foot difference in elevation over about 1/4 to 1/2 mile. So I'm not that high up but its still a pain to climb it.

So no, I don't have to use the bike paths. As a matter of fact most days I just use the main streets. It's only when I get off in the mornings that I treat myself to a bike path ride. They are without a doubt one of the coolest things about Phoenix. But its gotten to that part of the year when its hot at 8 AM even. So most if not all my riding happens when its either overcast or night-time.

I'm also in Phoenix (Metrocenter area) and I second Dogman about the heat vs controller/etc.

The motors get hot enough inside just with direct sunlight let alone in operation even at lower power, that you probably don't want to have the capacitors of the controller (everything else might be fine) inside the hot motor. I've had caps fail from heat even in external controllers, on DayGlo Avenger (my "normal" bike, vs my daily ride of CrazyBike2), which has the controller exposed to direct sunlight. On CB2 the main 12FET controller for the front wheel is under the bike, mostly shaded with airflow past it as I ride, and the rear wheel 12FET controller is between the cargo pods next to the wheel, partly shaded by the back of the seat and the pods, with airflow from the wheel spinning past it.

I also have a "spare" 6FET controller on the stem of the handlebars, that I used to use to run the front wheel but is now just there in case something fails and I need to limp home.



As for which motor, well, honestly the geared motors probably arent' necessary around here, and they will get hot inside because of the double insulation they have vs a typical DD motor.

I've used both kinds, and though the newer Fusin geared motor (designed for higher power levels) I used on my trike and on a "normal" bike hasn't had any problems I know of yet, the older ones (maybe a third of that power level) have had a few failures just on my regular bike. The various DD's I've used can stil lhave hall failure problems when used in stop/start traffic for long periods, but that's only on my really heavy main bike (crazybike2).

Batteries...it's way easier if you can charge all at once without changing around connections--doing that is asking for an eventual "oops" to happen where you forget to disconnect something, unless you build a switching setup for it that makes it impossible to do wrong (like a connector "jumper" block that disconnects all series connections before hooking them up in parallel, but also provides your only charger connection, and only when they're in parallel. Or a switch wired into the system that either uses relays to switch them all, or has enough contacts and power capability to directly switch all the wiring...that could get expensive).

But any disconnect/reconnect, via jumper or by manual wire connection, is going to wear the connectors faster and leave hte possibility of a bad connection that forces you to troubleshoot before you can ride.

If you can set it up so you only plug in the charger to battery/wall, then unplug and ride, it's a whole lot more bulletproof.



Other than that, all I can say is that it'd be fun to meet up, and you can look at my bike(s) and see what the technology actually looks like in person.


Oh, BTW, AFAIK there is nothing specifically prohibiting ebikes from the bike paths. Motor vehicles (which ebikes, being bicycles, are specifically *not*, per state law), are banned from the canal paths unless they have specific permission in advance from SRP, though.

I've ridden on these paths, including the canals, with no problems from any law enforcement, with regular bikes and my electrified contraptions both normal and strange, including when there have been up to dozens of officers along the path for various reasons. (even though my CrazyBIke2 actually looks a fair bit like a motorcycle becuase of it's coverings and lighting). None of my bikes could be even remotely considered "stealth ebikes". :lol:

The only times I've been stopped by an officer were on Crazybike2: once by one that thought the heavy traffic at the time on 35th avenue might endanger me, sinc eI couldn't go any faster than around 15MPH at that time, IIRC, and he suggested I ride on the sidewalk till I could get off 35th south of Dunlap. (had to get past hte canal first). The second time was down around Indian School and 23rd Ave, and she wasnt' really stopping me becuase of the bike, but becuase I was in an area where most bicyclists I saw for the half-year I lived in a temporary apartment down there seemed to be thieves and/or drunks that lost their license and ride bikes drunk instead. She didn't acutally say that, but her questions led toward that conclusion, in the couple of minutes we talked before she left and let me continue home.

Oh, there was one other time, back on DayGlo Avenger, when an officer pulled around me on my left as I was making a left turn, and he thanked me for having hte right lighting and turn signals/etc. :lol:

I've been stopped (usually as general harassment of cyclists by officers) much more often on regular bicycles, years back before I started my electrimotorification projects. :/


So I think that unless you're doing something stupid or going notably faster than other bicycle traffic (or beyond the <20MPH state limit, or whatever local limits there might be posted), I doubt you'll run into any issues.

Tempe (supposedly the most bike friendly city in the valley, but not AFAICT from my experiences there even on regular bikes) might have different city-specific rules, and Scottsdale might as well since they tend to be pretty silly about a lot of things, but nowhere else in teh valley that I've ever been has rules aobut it that I have seen posted or in their online databases/etc.

Here's a link to the info about Scottsdale and Tucson:
http://azbikelaw.org/blog/tucson-motorized-bicycle-ordinance/
and one about Tempe:
http://azbikelaw.org/blog/moped-and-motorized-bicycles-in-arizona/

Wow, lots of good info Amberwolf. I'm right near the 51 & Glendale so we are not that far from each other. I'd like to take you up on that offer to meet up. I'll look at schedules on my end and see what I can do. In the meanwhile...

I am not finding any sites carrying the Thunder 1220 in stock. So with that said I am seriously considering the Thunder TP1430c charger. It's a bit more (about $175)but it can handle the 12s pack and if (read:when) I add two more batteries to the bunch it appears to have the head room to handle it. Well, as long as I have a PSU that can put out the juice. Time to contact RoadRash...

As far as the batteries go I am considering 2 of the Multistar 6s1p 10000mah packs from HK. In addition I am sketching out a box that I want fabricated that will hold the batteries and connect to the seat post on the bike (with two clamps, one high and one low). I can also support it from down low as Dogman suggested. If I do it right I can kill two birds with one stone. I can protect the battery packs and have a stable box that will allow for a quick disconnect so I can take them into work with me. The box will be able to hold 4 of the Multistars and leave a little room for insulation and wires.

Looks like the easiest way to get to each other is the canal path, most likely (since we wouldn't have to deal with crossing streets for at least some of it; not sure how far east they've gotten with adding underpasses to the path).

I've PM'd you with possible get-together times/contact info.

Thanks again for all the great info, I promise it wasn't in vain, however... Yesterday my bike was stolen from my home. Yes, my wally is gone. And so this project must be put on hold for a bit. I still have money invested in the charger, ps units, multimeters and various gadgets so I intend to continue. But first I need another bike.

I am leaning heavily towards this one:


My girl likes it too. In fact, she is almost insisting I get it. I'm not so sure it will be a good commuter bike for me. I don't think that setup is rated highly for hill climbing. However, I think with a mid-drive or front drive (preferrably mid) this could be an excellent way to get back and forth to work. I like the fatter tires and the idea of sitting closer to the ground.

I'll need to do some more research but I'm sure to have the time for that now. Spending the loot on the bike means that the motor and batteries have to be pushed back a month or so. So, no relief from the heat. The biggest factor pushing me towards a mid-drive solution is that I would like to keep or upgrade the IGH on the bike. It would also center most of the weight on the bike. In addition that frame should remove a lot of obstacles for me when it comes to battery storage and such allowing me to hit a 20AH-30AH with little problem.

I'm guessing my biggest obstacle will be figuring out how to make the additions look as nice as the rest of the bike.

Anyway, I will update things here concerning the battery options once a new bike is in hand.

Cheers!

p.s. If anyone has reasons they think this won't be a suitable option please chime in.

That sucks about the bike: do you keep yours outdoors or inside the house? Cuz I don't think I'd trust anything outside (even with big scary-seeming dogs like I've often had), and I keep my important ones inside the house (wouldn't stop a determined thief, but...).

As for the new bike: Have you looked around at the Goodwill's and Savers and the like? If you go right when they open sometimes they have good stuff for cheap, but you kinda gotta check every day, or you'll probably miss what you're after. (I've gotten some decent ones for $20-30 before, though i'm usually getting them for parts rather than as a whole bike).


I don't have my pile of bikes anymore, or I'd offer you one to keep, and any parts you might need off of the others. The only stuff I have ATM is either true junk for parts/tubing or ones I'm keeping for specific reasons/projects.



The one you link/picture above is probably convertable. Keep in mind that IGHs can break from the shock of applied power, so you might wanna add some sort of "cush drive" between the middrive and hte IGH's input, or make sure you use a controller that doesn't apply a surge of power but rather ramps it up "slowly". There's a few threads about the problem around here, though hard to find with the search. :/


But: before you get a bike, ride it around for a while first, if they'll letcha, cuz it'd suck to buy a bike that isn't comfortable to ride, or has some other issue that makes it not a good choice.


Also note that bike has zero suspension AFAICS, so if you're on the roads around here even with the fatter tires it's probably gonna be a boneshaker.

amberwolf said:

That sucks about the bike: do you keep yours outdoors or inside the house?

Click to expand...

Yes it does suck. I keep it in the garage. I pulled it out to mow the lawn and forgot to put it back in. It was on the side of the house and not easy to see by someone casually passing by due to a knee wall that extends out from that area. Either way I'm over it. I meesed up and at least none of the good stuff was on board.

Went out and about today and got a new bike. Nothing like the one pictured above. I rode several and after the long description of what I was looking for in a bike the guy said hey try this one: 2011 Globe Live 3


At first I was not ready for the styling. It took a minute to grow on me. However what I did like was the ride. It felt smoother and quieter than the others. I liked the Alfine 8 hub, really smooth shifting in comparison to the other bikes I tried. The belt drive didn't throw me off the scent either. I liked the hydraulic disk-brakes. They were a major improvement over what I had. And I say that because except for the hydraulic disc-brakes on the other bikes I tried, they didn't feel that much different from the cheap Walmart special. Prior to taking it out for a spin I thought I needed a wider tire to get a nice ride. Not so at all, this setup has a respectable feel. Time will tell if I keep them or not. And then there is the basket. For now it stays because I need to take the heavy backpack off and put that stuff somewhere. Might as well use the basket. Oh, and I like the two legged kickstand too. All-in-all I am happy the purchase. I bought it used but it was in excellent shape.

So, in a month I should be back on track to get all necessary parts oredered. Until then, more research...And since I want to keep the Alfino 8 hub I am going to focus on a mid-drive solution.

Here is greenspark's impeccable 2011 Global Live\Cute Q100 conversion.
This will give you something to shoot for.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34400&p=499623&hilit=Globe+Live#p499623

motomech said:

Here is greenspark's impeccable 2011 Global Live\Cute Q100 conversion.
This will give you something to shoot for.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34400&p=499623&hilit=Globe+Live#p499623

Click to expand...

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!

Very interesting him putting the controller under the basket like that. My ideas were not far off from his. I am thinking about a Conhismotor 36V Mini brushless for the front. I am weighing the bottle approach versus a HK lipo solution. The most interesting part is that I don't see any torque arms on his front forks. Maybe they were made of steel in 2009, but in 2011 they were aluminum. And even though I'm not looking for a lot of torque up front I'm going to add torque arms just in case. So mine might not look as neat as his