Build Help - Commuter (10Mi RT) For GF. (Update: Now for me)

I’m new to e-bikes and I just discovered this forum. It’s a great resource and I’m learning a lot but I could use some guidance.

I’m building an e-bike for my girlfriend to commute to work. Her workplace is 5-6 miles away, and the terrain is completely flat, but the roads have a lot of potholes. She weighs about 115 lbs (52 kilos). That said, it would be nice to have some extra power for possibly hauling groceries or possibly taking it out of town. Due to the potholes, I’m tempted to go with a mountain bike or even a fat-tire bike. She’s a bit of a bicycle novice and isn’t looking to go very fast. She would like the bicycle to be foldable, because she’d like to take it inside at work.

Some other considerations:

Security: We have already had a few bikes stolen, and they weren’t even attractive targets, just cheap bikes from Wal Mart. What can be done about that? I’ve seen some e-bikes that require a key, but what component is it?

Water: We get torrential rains here. Sometimes it will be sunny in one part of town and storming in another. Inevitably the bike will get wet.

Total budget: I’d like to make it happen for $700 or less, but I’m willing to go a bit higher for the right features, particularly if I’m spending on a component where innovation is fairly slow.

Component Selection:
Since the budget is quite tight I thought I’d get a cheap kit from Amazon (http://tinyurl.com/pzk5r92). My only reservation is that it’s a 26” wheel, which isn’t going to work with a whole lot of foldable bicycles. Also there seem to be similar 500w options on e-bay for about $220. How hard/costly is it to build the motor into a smaller wheel? I think the benefits of a 20” folding bicycle are far greater than those of a 26” model.

I haven’t seen a lot of discussion about choice of frames. I know to get something steel, but are there many other considerations to make (other than build quality).

Here are a few folding bicycles that might work:
http://tinyurl.com/lf3kgt2
http://tinyurl.com/nyfalr9

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to the forum. Your budget and your goals may be at odds with this. A good folder will be half your budget. a cheap@$$ folder will still be 1/3rd of it, and your budget is less than many spend on just the battery.

However, there is a bike that will meet most of your needs, and it even has a warranty, from a store near you.
I'm probably going straight to Hell for suggesting this, but it is the best match for your needs and budget: http://www.walmart.com/ip/eZip-Trai...bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&findingMethod=p13n

Given the short commute distance, this is the best bang for the buck.

As for theft prevention, there is nothing that will keep a thief from taking what they want except to keep it away from where they can get to it.

Drunkskunk said:

Welcome to the forum. Your budget and your goals may be at odds with this. A good folder will be half your budget. a cheap@$$ folder will still be 1/3rd of it, and your budget is less than many spend on just the battery.

However, there is a bike that will meet most of your needs, and it even has a warranty, from a store near you.
I'm probably going straight to Hell for suggesting this, but it is the best match for your needs and budget: http://www.walmart.com/ip/eZip-Trai...bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&findingMethod=p13n

Given the short commute distance, this is the best bang for the buck.

As for theft prevention, there is nothing that will keep a thief from taking what they want except to keep it away from where they can get to it.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help.

I don't see a fold-able frame as a high priority (though my girlfriend may disagree at this point). Given that its not foldable, are you saying the EZip Trailz is the best bicycle you can build for $750? I see that the $275 TescomUSA kit gets pretty solid reviews, add another $200 for the frame, that still leaves about $275 for the battery. Is a battery going to run a lot more than that?

I'd really prefer to build from a kit for a few reasons:

1) Fun
2) If something should fail I can fix/replace the component
3) I'd like to build one for myself as well, so it will be a good learning experience.

Not no, but hell no. The ezips are crap compared to what you can build for $750. I'm not into folders, but this was easily found and will take a 26" wheel.
http://www.amazon.com/Folding-Mountain-Foldable-Bicycle-Shimano/dp/B00635KAH4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1407867805&sr=8-2&keywords=folded+bike
You may find something more to her liking here.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_12?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=folding+bike&sprefix=folding+bike%2Caps%2C266&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Afolding+bike&ajr=0
As for the motor kit, about any $250 and under will work. Pick your poison.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-Electric-Bicycle-Motor-Hub-Kit-Front-Rear-Wheel-Ebike36-48V250-500-800-1000W-/291119531800
You can spend anywhere from $100 and up for a lithium battery pack. It all depends an what you want and what motor you decide to get. So make that decision first, then talk battery.

To wesnewell's budget, remember to add fire insurance because of the what-me-worry Hong Kong batteries, and psychotherapy to help you recover from working on a department store type "bicycle-shaped object".

Even though this approach is not often girl-friendly, my preference for passive theft protection is to have a bike as good as I want, that looks as bad as possible. My New Orleans bike is a '74 Schwinn Varsity with chipped and faded paint, cracked foam rubber saddle, BMX bars, coaster brake, mismatched tires, and rusty wire basket. Solid as a rock, looks like crap.

It's not always easy to find a truly crappy-looking bike in just the size and style you want, though. It often takes some intensive repair to get a rotten-looking bike into excellent mechanical shape, too. And in my observation, most women would prefer to have a bike that looks nice but rides like crap.

You'll need a decent lock. Anything with a cable is not a decent lock. Use a U-lock from a reputable brand, for example Kryptonite, Abus, Onguard. Don't use any kind of lock from a big-box store unless you want thieves to do to you what the big-box store does to your community.

And she'll have to use the lock correctly, in terms of what parts of the bike she locks up and what it is she locks the bike to.

I can't help thinking that your girlfriend might be more satisfied with $700 worth of regular pedal bicycle than with $700 worth of e-bike. There are no hills there, after all. Seven hundred bucks could buy a used but pretty OK, relatively new fully suspended mountain bike. Or it could buy a basic but nice road bike, hybrid, or hardtail mountain bike. Fitting a motor kit and battery into the same budget will mean going to the bottom of the barrel in all regards.

Chalo said:

Even though this approach is not often girl-friendly, my preference for passive theft protection is to have a bike as good as I want, that looks as bad as possible. My New Orleans bike is a '74 Schwinn Varsity with chipped and faded paint, cracked foam rubber saddle, BMX bars, coaster brake, mismatched tires, and rusty wire basket. Solid as a rock, looks like crap.

Click to expand...

I'm with you on this, but I'll never talk her into it. If need be I'll just have her get an anti-theft device with GPS tracking.

Chalo said:

I can't help thinking that your girlfriend might be more satisfied with $700 worth of regular pedal bicycle than with $700 worth of e-bike. There are no hills there, after all. Seven hundred bucks could buy a used but pretty OK, relatively new fully suspended mountain bike. Or it could buy a basic but nice road bike, hybrid, or hardtail mountain bike. Fitting a motor kit and battery into the same budget will mean going to the bottom of the barrel in all regards.

Click to expand...

I've tried to talk her into riding her bicycle to work and she really isn't down. She works at a school, has to be there quite early, and really isn't a morning person. She loves the idea of an electric bicycle though.

How terrible is a $700 e bicycle? I figured it would be something we could always upgrade if need be. If she likes the idea she'll probably be willing to shell out another $400-500 to upgrade the motor and controller. How much more would I need to spend to get something decent? I was under the impression that the frame wasn't all that important because cheap heavy steel bikes are really ideal when it comes to e-biking. How about something like $300 for the motor, $100 for the controller, $200 for the frame, $250 for the battery, $100 for misc. Would that do it get her something nice?

$1000-$1200 builds the average Ebike. It can be done cheaper by cutting corners and accepting low quality parts and potential fires. But for a successful, low maintenance bike, that's about the cost of entry. Adding features like the ability to fold start running that price up.

It's the frame and the battery that are going to kill your budget. The motor you linked would be a gamble, it's not a reputable vendor. However it's probably fine, maybe. >$300 gets you a motor, controller, throttle, all laced into a wheel that is usually ok with good maintenance, for light weight riders and short commutes.

If you want to get Her what she wants, a folder that can handle potholes, then you'll blow a good chunk of your budget on a used bike. Pothole mitigation needs 26" wheels, and good 26" wheel folders aren't cheap. The cheap ones are cumbersome to fold, weigh a ton, and are going to fall apart, the only question is when. You aren't likely to make her very happy inflicting one of those on her.

A good safe battery that doesn't take an engineering degree to charge or use will run you $500-700. Ping is about the lowest end vendor most of us would ever recommend. He's a reputable guy who makes his living selling bottom end parts at affordable prices. he does stand behind his product, but he ships out of china, so shipping isn't cheap a 36V15Ah is the minimum size you should use with a motor like that. it has more range than she needs, but it's the smallest size that can handle the output for the motor. The up side is she will be able to make it 15 miles minimum on the bike between charges. maybe much further. And charging is just a matter of plugging in the charger. No balancing cells, no monitoring pack voltages and temps while they charge, no real risk of burning down your apartment building.http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-9/36v-15ah-lifepo4-lithium/Detail $423 + probably another $75 to $100 in shipping.

And the Down side here is with that motor kit and battery, plus a folding frame bike, you're looking at 70lbs or more of Ebike. She can get what she wants, but she isn't going to want to fold it and carry it in reality.


So the Walmart bike. It will be a buzzy, cheap bike with a loud-ish motor that won't set any land speed records. But it's a Currie motor, which is known to be good. It's a low maintenance LiFePO4 battery. And it's backed by Walmart, so when stuff breaks, and it will, returns are easy. And that's a good chunk of why I would recomend it. It keeps you in budget.
It will also hurt less when it gets stolen.

I think we are missing the mark in our recommendations.
Ho hills, no need for speed, but "...a lot of potholes..."says to me, good suspension, small motor. So...
-Used mountain bike, smallest frame possible, something with real suspension. It might take a while to find, but they are out there. Maybe a teenager who is out-growing his $1000(new) MTB who will let it go for $400. Then use a 24"wheel on the back.
Small mini-motor, low power to save money and keep her out of trouble.
Something like this:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/616-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html
Everything included, easy installation, water resistent.
With the "201"motor in a 24"wheel, top speed would be around 18 mph.
She will love her new toy.

As for security, she needs to "think out of the box" and find somewhere safe to park the bike. And maybe someone who will help her.
Most people take an interest in an Ebike, especially one ridden by a girl.

motomech said:

I think we are missing the mark in our recommendations.
Ho hills, no need for speed, but "...a lot of potholes..."says to me, good suspension, small motor. So...
-Used mountain bike, smallest frame possible, something with real suspension. It might take a while to find, but they are out there. Maybe a teenager who is out-growing his $1000(new) MTB who will let it go for $400. Then use a 24"wheel on the back.
Small mini-motor, low power to save money and keep her out of trouble.
Something like this:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/616-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html
Everything included, easy installation, water resistent.
With the "201"motor in a 24"wheel, top speed would be around 18 mph.
She will love her new toy.

As for security, she needs to "think out of the box" and find somewhere safe to park the bike. And maybe someone who will help her.
Most people take an interest in an Ebike, especially one ridden by a girl.

Click to expand...

This is great. I think the goal for me, knowing that $700 will be bare bones, is to find one thing to "splurge" on a bit. I'd like that splurge to (a) increase functionality of the bike of the short term and (b) be something that will be compatible with higher end components if we decide to upgrade. I'm mostly going low-end because her commuting via e-bike is an experiment. Should it not work out I want to minimize the amount of money sunk, but should it work out I'd like to have some upside.

I think based on what you're saying a good place to splurge would be on the bicycle itself. Certainly this would be something she could use moving forward. Also I think she was thinking "outside the box" on security with wanting a folding frame.

Given that this is a bit of an experiment, would it be crazy to get some cheap SLA batteries? I know they don't last long, but it would cut the price by $200-300, would be sufficient for this "experiment" and would be something I could obviously upgrade in the future without much hassle.

nlhaines said:

Given that this is a bit of an experiment, would it be crazy to get some cheap SLA batteries? I know they don't last long, but it would cut the price by $200-300, would be sufficient for this "experiment" and would be something I could obviously upgrade in the future without much hassle.

Click to expand...

A lot of us started out that way. Few of us would still do it that way, even if we had to start over. Understand that SLA batteries will do the job-- but they are heavy, you have to figure out a way to carry them, they don't last long, and they pretty much suck in every way a battery can suck. But if that's the way you have to do it, well....

SLA? Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!
It would negate getting a bike that would soak up the pot holes. SLA is almost always a waste of money! We do not want to hear the S-word again!
You probably need $850 to do this.
used bike -$400
Conversion kit-$320
Shipping-$130(guesstimate)
Pink grips-$10
Plus the used bike is likely to need something

You could find a hardtail or a BMX bikefor less money, but it won't ride nearly as nice on bad roads.
Whatever you get in way of a bike, this is the type of kit she needs.
trust me
Save more money while you look for a used bike.
She's worth it, Right?

roflmao. If my 2 year old $99 FS bike will do 61.4mph on a country asphalt road with all kind of bumps with my fat ass 270lbs on it and not come apart, why the hell do you think you need to spend $400 for a 115lb rider to to do <20mph. Don't let these people fool you. Put a cheap 36V 250W rear motor on a cheap bike and be done with it. Don't buy anything direct from China. Buy from a USA volume seller with free delivery. Put cheap 10ah bottle battery on it if you want it to look good. Total cost including new folding bike, motor kit, and 10ah bottle battery should be well under $700.

UPDATE:

So she really wants a folding bike. I showed her some pre-built bikes and she seemed happy to pay $1300-$1500 for an entry level folding bike over $750-$950 for a regular mountain bike or cruiser.

I'm trying to convince her to let me build one for her. At $1000-$1100 I feel like I could build a pretty nice folder. Should I not be able to, are there any pre-built bikes that are upgradable? Do controllers have a standard set of connectors or does it vary greatly?

Here are some I've been looking at:
http://www.amazon.com/Prodeco-Mariner-Folding-Electric-Bicycle/dp/B00APBSBZA
http://www.amazon.com/Prodeco-Folding-Electric-Bicycle-Aluminum/dp/B00APBSDEE (apparently the frame is too big for her at 5'4")
https://www.e-bykes.com/product/2014-big-cat-hampton-folding-bike/

motomech said:

Whatever you get in way of a bike, this is the type of kit she needs.

Click to expand...

Which type of kit? Just something in the $320 range?

I'm thinking:

$400-500 for a good foldable bike. I'd like to get my hands on a paratrooper (which I've seen for $600), though that's probably too much bike for her (I'd go ahead and build one for myself).
$320-350 for a kit.
$250-300 for the battery.

wesnewell said:

roflmao. If my 2 year old $99 FS bike will do 61.4mph on a country asphalt road with all kind of bumps with my fat ass 270lbs on it and not come apart, why the hell do you think you need to spend $400 for a 115lb rider to to do <20mph. Don't let these people fool you. Put a cheap 36V 250W rear motor on a cheap bike and be done with it. Don't buy anything direct from China. Buy from a USA volume seller with free delivery. Put cheap 10ah bottle battery on it if you want it to look good. Total cost including new folding bike, motor kit, and 10ah bottle battery should be well under $700.

Click to expand...

I think this is good to keep in mind. The people here are aficionados, which means they have a lot to offer, but are probably a bit snobbish when it comes to components.

Would the Giant Warp DS 1 XC be a good buy at $300? It looks like a good mountain bike, though it doesn't fold.

Also considering this: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=62333

nlhaines said:

UPDATE:So she really wants a folding bike. I showed her some pre-built bikes and she seemed happy to pay $1300-$1500 for an entry level folding bike over $750-$950 for a regular mountain bike or cruiser.

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Sure, just so long as you and she both understand that trying to ride on New Orleans streets with 20 inch wheels is a self-correcting mistake. The bike might or might not last under those conditions; her commitment to riding it will not.

Look for a Montague or Fuji folder with 26 inch wheels. If it's the small wheels she's after, well, you're on your own. I've ridden a 20 inch wheeled bike in NO shortly after Katrina-- a bigger, more comfortable one than you are looking at-- and I strongly recommend against it.

Understand this is not about snobbery or enthusiast level anything; it's about having established through experience what works and does not work, long term, in various conditions. Understand also that many of us have tried the type of big-box cycling equipment that wesnewell uses and have found it so lacking that we'd beg, borrow, steal, or walk before we'd do it again on purpose.

I've worked as a bike shop mechanic starting in 1992. I've owned dozens of bikes, built up hundreds, repaired thousands. I've made frames and components from scratch. I haven't owned a car in years. Based on what I have learned, I'm telling you that a bike can be cheap, heavy, tacky, or whatever, as long as it works and is fit for purpose. If it's functional and fit for its purpose, it will be ridden. If not, it won't.

The purpose of big-box bikes is to be sold. That's the only job they were ever designed for. The purpose of cheap folding bikes is to take up space in car trunks. Look at the above two kinds of bikes if those are the purposes y'all have in mind.

Chalo said:

Sure, just so long as you and she both understand that trying to ride on New Orleans streets with 20 inch wheels is a self-correcting mistake. The bike might or might not last under those conditions; her commitment to riding it will not. Look for a Montague or Fuji folder with 26 inch wheels. If it's the small wheels she's after, well, you're on your own. I've ridden a 20 inch wheeled bike in NO shortly after Katrina-- a bigger, more comfortable one than you are looking at-- and I strongly recommend against it.

Click to expand...

Awesome advice. I didn't think of this, but it certainly makes a hell of a lot of sense. I'm looking like hell for a good deal on a montague. Does the "Boston" frame work? How are the paratrooper knockoffs? There is a used "Boston" on CL for $400 that maybe could work, and the paratrooper knockoffs look the part.

Chalo said:

Understand this is not about snobbery or enthusiast level anything; it's about having established through experience what works and does not work, long term, in various conditions. Understand also that many of us have tried the type of big-box cycling equipment that wesnewell uses and have found it so lacking that we'd beg, borrow, steal, or walk before we'd do it again on purpose.

I've worked as a bike shop mechanic starting in 1992. I've owned dozens of bikes, built up hundreds, repaired thousands. I've made frames and components from scratch. I haven't owned a car in years. Based on what I have learned, I'm telling you that a bike can be cheap, heavy, tacky, or whatever, as long as it works and is fit for purpose. If it's functional and fit for its purpose, it will be ridden. If not, it won't.

The purpose of big-box bikes is to be sold. That's the only job they were ever designed for. The purpose of cheap folding bikes is to take up space in car trunks. Look at the above two kinds of bikes if those are the purposes y'all have in mind.

Click to expand...

Well, I have talked her into the 1K range, so I think it'll be okay. I'll be scouring CL for deals and its something Im usually pretty decent at.

Sorry, I've never worked in a bike shop or even ever considered it. I have worked on multi million dollar aircraft though back in the 60's. I rode bikes back in the 50's for a few years when i was between 10 and 14. At that time, I stripped and repaired them as needed. I didn't start riding again until just a few years ago, just for exercise. Stationary exercise bikes are boring. Since then I've put over 12K miles riding them. All the bikes I've ridden, except one more expensive one, came from Walmart. I've had a motor on one or another for a little over 3 years. None, except the one, cost more than $100 new. And all of them worked fine for me. I have only one must requirement, and that's steel dropouts so I don't have to screw with torque arms/plates. Everything else can be replaced if you don't like it. I didn't like the rim in the hub motor so I replaced it and laced it myself with a wider stronger one. A bike isn't rocket science, or aircraft maintenance, or even car maintenance. It's just a simple bicycle. If you want to ride without a motor, there's usually an advantge to buying a more expensive bike, but for one to put a motor on, the more expensive ones are usually at a disadvantage. That's why I gave my expensive one away to a local kid.

Can we all at least agree that a good battery is worth the extra cash?

nlhaines said:

Can we all at least agree that a good battery is worth the extra cash?

Click to expand...

Unless the OP thinks they are only going to use it for a week or two and give up on it, yes a good battery better: lighter, more reliable and cheaper than a cheap heavy battery you have to replace all the time.

The Montague boston might be too big for your 5'4" non-riding GF.
It comes in two sizes, 19" which MIGHT be ok and 21" which is definitely too big.

You have to take off the front wheel to fold Montague bikes... thats a
pain to do 2x daily.

Maybe look out for a Dahon Cadenza on Craigslist? Or Dahon espresso, Tern joe,
Dahon jack...

I looked for a long time for a folder with similar parameters and I saw many scary
comments about super-cheap folders crumpling under riders. So I'd suggest avoiding
knockoffs and $200 frames.

On the positive side, at least you are looking to build a modestly powered bike for
a lighter rider! That gives you at least a few options, and means you might get away
w/o disc brakes.

Is your GF intending to haul this folding ebike up stairs?

tln said:

The Montague boston might be too big for your 5'4" non-riding GF.
It comes in two sizes, 19" which MIGHT be ok and 21" which is definitely too big.

You have to take off the front wheel to fold Montague bikes... thats a
pain to do 2x daily.

Maybe look out for a Dahon Cadenza on Craigslist? Or Dahon espresso, Tern joe,
Dahon jack...

I looked for a long time for a folder with similar parameters and I saw many scary
comments about super-cheap folders crumpling under riders. So I'd suggest avoiding
knockoffs and $200 frames.

On the positive side, at least you are looking to build a modestly powered bike for
a lighter rider! That gives you at least a few options, and means you might get away
w/o disc brakes.

Is your GF intending to haul this folding ebike up stairs?

Click to expand...

She doesn't intend to fold it all that often. She wants to be able to bike to work and then occasionally catch a ride home, so she wants something she can fold up for that purpose. I told her full size folding bike wouldn't be all that portable, especially not with the added weight of motor and a battery.

I think the Montague bikes would fold with enough ease, and they definitely look pretty sturdy. At 5'3" she's right on the edge between 16" and 18", but she says she prefers 16". If I can't get a deal on something I think I'll go with The Montague X50 16" at $630. Although I tend to agree with wesnewell when it comes to the choice of bicycle, I am convinced that having a cheap folding bike could be pretty disastrous. Worst case scenario with the X50, or something else solid, is that the E-bike experiment doesnt work out and were left with a nice mountain bike.

nlhaines said:

Can we all at least agree that a good battery is worth the extra cash?

Click to expand...

I guess that depends on what you call a good battery. To me, it's one that will deliver the amperage I need without overloading it. Since my 24s2p lipo pack rated for 200A has served me more than 8K miles in a little over 2 years and I expect it to last at least another 4K miles and another year. I consider it an excellent battery. And the fact that it only cost me ~$275 makes it more than an excellent battery. it's lighter and smaller in volume than most other types. And it's modular. I can switch between 24s2p to 12s4p in under 3 seconds. I've used it on 2 bikes which required 2 totally different shapes. So I really don't see any need to spend more 31 cents per wh for any battery.

wesnewell said:

So I really don't see any need to spend more 31 cents per wh for any battery.

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Floont lost his house and truck to that kind of battery; just sayin'. It doesn't have to happen much to be kind of a big deal.

He lost his house and truck because he made a stupid decision to bulk charge unattended with a faulty charger. And if you stand in the middle of the street long enough, you'll get run over.