is this a good base for an ebike conversion?

Ooops! sorry guys posted in wrong section - please delete.

Hi guys,

First post but have been lurking on and off for a while. I've had an ebike for about 8 or 9 years but I'm looking to upgrade. I currently have an old emaxi swift 200w external chain driven motor which used to have SLA batteries but I upgraded a while back to a Ping 24V 20Ah battery. It still goes well but heavy and only has a maximum speed of about 25km/hr (16mp/h). Here is a photo:


The three main reasons I want to upgrade are:
1. for something a bit lighter
2. lower center of gravity (battery in the triangle frame rather than on the back)
4. and to increase the top cruising speed.

I've got a weak leg/stuffed hip after many operations and a hip replacement so I don't do a lot of pedaling. I want to use the bike to commute to work a couple of days a week. The commute to work is 11km one-way. I rode in my electric bike this morning to work for the first time and loved it. It used 4.08Ah over the 11km and took me 30 minutes. I cruised along at about 20-25km/hr. I would like to increase this speed to average more around 25-30km/hr. I weigh only 65kg so I'm not heavy. I'm thinking a hub motor might suit me best as I live Perth, Australia which is very flat and there is only one hill in my whole trip to work.

I'm thinking of buying a bike and then installing a hub kit. What do you think about this bike as a base for an ebike?
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/bikes/model/cross.city.3/7271/44180/#specifications
It has a cromolly fork, is that OK for a front hub motor? I know that Aluminium is not a safe option.

What would you recommend as a good hub motor kit for what I am looking for? Basic requirement is a top speed of around 30-35km/hr (19-22mph) and a range of about 25km (16 miles).
Maybe the Dillenger 250w 10Ah front hub kit, or the 1000w 48V 10Ah front hub kit (but this may not give me the range).

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

Hi guys,

First post but have been lurking on and off for a while. I've had an ebike for about 8 or 9 years but I'm looking to upgrade. I currently have an old emaxi swift 200w external chain driven motor which used to have SLA batteries but I upgraded a while back to a Ping 24V 20Ah battery. It still goes well but heavy and only has a maximum speed of about 25km/hr (16mp/h). Here is a photo:


The three main reasons I want to upgrade are:
1. for something a bit lighter
2. lower center of gravity (battery in the triangle frame rather than on the back)
4. and to increase the top cruising speed.

I've got a weak leg/stuffed hip after many operations and a hip replacement so I don't do a lot of pedaling. I want to use the bike to commute to work a couple of days a week. The commute to work is 11km one-way. I rode in my electric bike this morning to work for the first time and loved it. It used 4.08Ah over the 11km and took me 30 minutes. I cruised along at about 20-25km/hr. I would like to increase this speed to average more around 25-30km/hr. I weigh only 65kg so I'm not heavy. I'm thinking a hub motor might suit me best as I live Perth, Australia which is very flat and there is only one hill in my whole trip to work.

I'm thinking of buying a bike and then installing a hub kit. What do you think about this bike as a base for an ebike?
http://carinecycles.com/products-page/flat-bar-road-giant/2014-giant-cross-city-2/
It has a cromolly fork, is that OK for a front hub motor? I know that Aluminium is not a safe option.

What would you recommend as a good hub motor kit for what I am looking for? Basic requirement is a top speed of around 30-35km/hr (19-22mph) and a range of about 25km (16 miles).
Maybe the Dillenger 250w 10Ah front hub kit, or the 1000w 48V 10Ah front hub kit (but this may not give me the range).

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

not sure why the photo is not showing up. I used the Img tool with a dropbox link in between the two img boxes.

Welcome beachcruiser. I'm in Embleton.

FYI, to show long URLs with out breaking them, like the Giant one, you need to encase them in between
And to get pictures to show up in threads I resize to 640 pixels, so here's your current bike.

beachcruiser said:

not sure why the photo is not showing up. I used the Img tool with a dropbox link in between the two img boxes.

Click to expand...

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/bikes/model/cross.city.3/7271/44180/

-R

thankyou very much for welcome Gregory and for the heads up on posting photos.

Given your ES handle, I'm surprised that you don't want to go with a cruiser. I don't like pedal forward myself, but lots of people like them a lot.

Any 7 speed beach cruiser makes a great commuter for that distance. Big frame space, fat cushy tires. If you like your front fork, move it to a beach cruiser.

Oh, and get a toolbox or a bag to carry that battery. Then wrap something around the battery itself, like a home made coroplast box. Make it tight, so the battery doesn't rub.

That battery strapped to the rack is a disaster waiting to happen.

Unfortunately, you will need 36v for the speed you want, so keep that battery in re sellable condition.

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

Take your pick. I'd suggest a rear wheel.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-48V-500-1000W-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-E-Bike-Front-Rear-Wheel-Motor-Kit-/151253159288
For battery, I'd use 10ah 12s lipo from HK in AU. Will give you a range of ~30km at 35kph.
6 of these would be the cheapest option.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=19499

PO-For your requirements and bike, you really don't need a frisbee-sized 1000 W\48V motor, a geared mini-motor will fill the bill and be more stealthy and lighter to boot.
Here's a recent thread when we are talking about installing a Q100H(Cute) kit on a bike simular to yours.
Your proposed bike has pretty good pedal drive system and gearing(11T\48T), so the Q100 CST rear might be a good option as well.
Might have to rethink the battery and controller for that motor.


http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62968&p=941561&hilit=+q100h#p941561

Hi beach cruiser-my ebike is a giant talon 29er from carine cycles with the Dillinger 250w 10ah kit. For the speeds you want this kit is about the right speed-there are plenty of others kits too. I average about 31kmh warwick rd to CBD on the bike path. Having the suspension is good for the bumps and disk brakes I think are a must have safety item. I have a topeak rear rack and can carry heaps of stuff too. So my advice is (a) get a really comfy bike that fits you, speed will come from the motor so aerodynamics don't matter too much (b) get disk brakes and good lights as you'll be going quicker than before (c) 35 kmh is plenty on the bike path so unless you like to hoon a 36v system is enough especially if you pedal, 48v will have heaps in reserve for the days you want to get somewhere a bit quicker. 1000w is overkill imho for the paths here. (d) buy from a vendor that gets a good reputation on here for helping fix stuff quickly, emphasis on quickly. And finally (e) big capacity ah battery that you feel safe with so those 50+km rides are possible now the weathers improved.

Rich

Thanks for all the replies.
I have updated my profile location.
Thanks for the heads up dogman. I have put my battery in a case to protect it as you can see:


I rode my existing bike back from Freo to Coogee beach this morning and it was an awesome ride in Perth's beautiful weather along South Beach and Coogee Beach!

Nah, I'm not interested in a cruiser thanks dogman. My preference is a straight bar/urban or a mountain bike. I really like your build Tats using a Giant Talon 29er and the Dillinger 250w 10ah kit. Do you put Dillenger in your reputable vendor category Tats with good after sales service? How did you go getting your controller replaced?
Tats, did your front disc rotor from your Talon fit on the Dillenger front hub OK?

I know that the 36v setup would give me the speeds I mentioned ie avge about 30km/hr, but I can't help thinking I will want more power on tap with a 48v setup from the get go. A lot of the 36V builds that I have read the author starts wishing for more power before too long! Hmmmm......

That Q100h cute hub looks quite good as well motomech. I'm trying to keep to keep it light and simple and that fits the bill.

The other option I thought about was electrifying my Giant XTC1, but I think I want to keep that as is and start a separate build.


Keep the suggestions coming as all suggestions are appreciated.

beachcruiser

Edit: not sure why my photos are not showing up. I resized them to 640 pixels as previously suggested.

I put Dillinger in the good vendor, but a bit slow category. I was without the bike for 5-6 weeks waiting for the controller fix turnaround-but to their credit it was a tricky intermittent issue and they followed through. I think they'd improve if they hired an admin person, but they were good.

Looking at their gear I reckon it's a q100 hub motor and other bafang standard reliable parts and the rotor fits no problems-but you need to swap over your rim tape as there's none in the kit. I think there is scope to buy the kit as a first entry and use it for a while and then treat it as a base for building a bike that really suits yo or a backup. For example, I have bought a lyen controller and the waterproof cables from greenbikekit so that if the controller packs in again I can reconfigure the system with the better controller and put a few more amps through it. The 36v battery will be the limiter though, but it's quick enough for the bike path. I only need faster if I want to keep up with a couple of tri-bikes or faster ebikes, but then we're going a bit quick.

If it were me, in your position I'd use the XTC base instead of buying another bike. And I'd use this money to get a better kit than the 36v. I'd probably go for the em3ev bbs02 48v kit based on what I've read based on reputation on this forum. Absolutely nothing wrong with the dillinger kit, and it's a great price point with ok after sales support, but I think for my purposes the mid drive would be better in the long run and a bit more fun. It's also a neat pretty stealthy installation with few cables etc. depends what you're after. Not much downside either way.

beachcruiser said:

If it were me, in your position I'd use the XTC base instead of buying another bike. And I'd use this money to get a better kit than the 36v. I'd probably go for the em3ev bbs02 48v kit based on what I've read based on reputation on this forum. Absolutely nothing wrong with the dillinger kit, and it's a great price point with ok after sales support, but I think for my purposes the mid drive would be better in the long run and a bit more fun. It's also a neat pretty stealthy installation with few cables etc. depends what you're after. Not much downside either way.

Click to expand...

Thanks Tats.

Given my original post that my work commute is pretty flat along the coast with only one hill at the end to go up the hill into Coogee, and the fact that I have a bad leg so would use PAS much less than the average ebike commuter I am not sure the mid-drive is the best for me. It sounds great, I love the stealth factor. Maybe I need to ride one and find out for myself. I guess I just had it in my head the a hub motor would be best for me. I'd be interested to know the top speed and range of the em3ev bbs02 48v kit given I would pedal less than usual and use the throttle more than usual. Do you know anywhere in Perth where I can test ride a mid-drive?

No idea - Just rode my bike up the hill in my street and bike dropped to 24kmh with pedalling. You may be disappointed with a 36v kit if you don't want to pedal for the hill. Cheers, Rich

I can't imagine you being happy going from dual suspension to no suspension unless your riding surface is perfect. You mention concern about weight, do you have to carry your bike frequently? If you ride on pavement with both wheels on the ground, pedal little, and rarely need to lift your bike, then weight is a non-issue. OTOH where the weight is located can make a tremendous difference in handling both on and off the bike. Going to a front motor and battery in the triangle will make it feel much lighter than your current bike, especially off the bike. You will be able to walk the bike around just holding the handlebar without the battery being an unruly destabilizing factor, and picking the rear wheel up by grabbing the saddle to whip the bike around the other direction will make the bike feel much more like a bike instead of a big heavy electric bike.

beachcruiser said:

Hi guys,
The three main reasons I want to upgrade are:
1. for something a bit lighter
2. lower center of gravity (battery in the triangle frame rather than on the back)
4. and to increase the top cruising speed.

...I would like to increase this speed to average more around 25-30km/hr. I weigh only 65kg so I'm not heavy. I'm thinking a hub motor might suit me best as I live Perth, Australia which is very flat and there is only one hill in my whole trip to work.

...What would you recommend as a good hub motor kit for what I am looking for? Basic requirement is a top speed of around 30-35km/hr (19-22mph) and a range of about 25km (16 miles).

Maybe the Dillenger 250w 10Ah front hub kit, or the 1000w 48V 10Ah front hub kit (but this may not give me the range).

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

Click to expand...

I love small geared motors on the front wheel for assist but would not normally recommend them as a primary motor with little pedaling however given that you are so light and the terrain is flat I think in this instance it would be a great choice due to its small size and light weight.

Most small geared motor kits will achieve 25-30 km/h on a fully charged (10S)36V battery however they feel pretty weak especially near the end of a ride. I would instead go with a (13S li-ion) 48V bottle/downtube battery to get the extra speed and power when you want it (For more stealth I would place a small lithium battery in a Topeak MTX bag)



-R

Tats said:

Just rode my bike up the hill in my street and bike dropped to 24kmh with pedalling.

Click to expand...

Wow, 24kmh up hill even with pedaling is very respectable.

John in CR said:

I can't imagine you being happy going from dual suspension to no suspension unless your riding surface is perfect.

Click to expand...

This is on the money. I think a mountain bike with suspension is probably better suited for my use.

John in CR said:

You mention concern about weight, do you have to carry your bike frequently?

Click to expand...

No, but when I pedal my existing ebike with no throttle assist (which is 30kg) it feels like such a dog - it is just so heavy. I'm sure a lightweight mountain bike (say 11kg) with a lightweight motor and battery (say 9kg) of 20kg total would be a lot easier to pedal than my existing bike. I guess I pedal more than I have stated in my posts above. I try to pedal as much as I can but my leg fatigues reasonably quickly where I have to coast for a while and rely just on the throttle. I'd like to think that with a lighter bike I can improve the strength and stamina in by bad leg over time.

Thanks Russell, you make some really good points in your post. I'm thinking that 48V would be my preference for the reasons you and Tats have pointed out.

I'm actually giving some more thought as well to Tats idea of the BBS02 750W 48V kit as well. So probably weighing up the front hub 48V setup vs the BBS02.

48V.

I measured the one hill that I have on my home commute and it is only 300m long but is a 12% grade.

I have done a heap more reading and I am leaning more towards the BBS02 750W 48V kit from 3m3ev with the 50V 16.5Ah Triangle Pack (29E version) with 58.8V 5A Charger (Includes bag).
Total cost = US$1179 + US$210 postage to Australia = US$1389.

I have reconsidered the base bike and rather than modify my Giant XTC 1 I am thinking of buying a Giant Talon 27.5 2 as shown below.
The specs of the Giant Talon 27.5 2 are:

Frame ALUXX Alloy
Fork RockShox XC 30 w/lock-out 100mm travel
Handlebar Giant Sport Alloy, low rise
Stem Giant Sport Alloy
Seatpost Giant Sport Alloy, 30.9mm
Saddle Giant Connect, Upright
Pedals Alloy Platform
Shifters Shimano Deore, Rapid Fire 30sp
Front Derailleur Shimano Deore 34.9 10sp
Rear Derailleur Shimano SLX 10sp
Brakes Shimano M395 hydraulic, 160mm rotors
Brake Levers Shimano M395 hydraulic
Cassette Shimano HG62 11-36T, 10sp
Chain KMC X10 10sp
Crankset FSA MegaExo, 24x32x44T
Bottom Bracket FSA MegaExo cartridge
Rims Giant CR70 Alloy, double wall 32h
Hubs Giant Tracker Sport Disc
Spokes Stainless Steel, 14g
Tires Schwalbe Rapid Rob 27.5x2.25

I think the weight of the setup would be:
Bike = approx 12.9kg + BBS02 4kg + Battery 4.5kg = 21.4kg (47 lb)
I weigh only 65kg (143lb)

I like the gearing specs of the Talon 2 with 30sp and cassette of 11-36T, so that would give me 10 gears.
The weight distribution would be good too with the triangle battery in a bag within the triangle.

What do you guys think? This would make a nice setup I reckon.

It's literally struggle town to get cheap slick/road 27.5" tires if you want to do some commuting. Try find some cheap non knobby 27.5" tires. I went for a 29er so I could use big balloon knobby MTB tires (29er MTB) or swap out for some 700c road tires when I need to. A 29er shares the same rim diamater as a 700c wheel (etrto 622), so your options open up greatly. The difference is the width (usually can fit a 32c to 52c wide tire) on the actual rim and the fork clearance (obviously a 29er can fit any tire a road bike uses).

Raged said:

It's literally struggle town to get cheap slick/road 27.5" tires if you want to do some commuting. Try find some cheap non knobby 27.5" tires.

Click to expand...

Hmmm.....I assumed with the ever increasing market for the 27.5 bikes that more tyre options would become available.
what about this one through a quick google search?
http://www.pushys.com.au/maxxis-det...5&cadevice=c&gclid=CNDzne_o5MACFc2CvQodLUwAOQ

I am only 5'4" so I reckon a 29er would be too large a frame for my liking.

I'm 178cm so 5"10ish and around 78kegs - Giant Talon 29er Medium frame and I honestly feel like I'm on a Penny Farthing. The view from up here is amazing, the bike feels that big - the wind resistance is also huge though.

I've gone for conti touring plus tyres 700x37 with thorn proof tubes (these weight a ton), the stock Rapid Robs have a very very thin sidewall for our bogan droppings (broken bottles) on our paths.

My Talon is the http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/bikes/model/talon.29er.1/12059/57367/ 27sp and cost me $650 from Carine a couple of years ago. With the Dillinger kit I never drop from the biggest front chain ring. At the rear I'll use rings 5-8 and stand on the pedals to keep the motor spinning above 24 kmh in the bigger hill sections so it doesn't get bogged down (eg. Gribble Road Balcatta and Path just before Warwick Road heading North). With the kit you're looking at I know you'll be using less gears than I am and it should be a pretty awesome machine.

Tats said:

I'm 178cm so 5"10ish and around 78kegs - Giant Talon 29er Medium frame and I honestly feel like I'm on a Penny Farthing. The view from up here is amazing, the bike feels that big - the wind resistance is also huge though.

I've gone for conti touring plus tyres 700x37 with thorn proof tubes (these weight a ton), the stock Rapid Robs have a very very thin sidewall for our bogan droppings (broken bottles) on our paths.

My Talon is the http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-au/bikes/model/talon.29er.1/12059/57367/ 27sp and cost me $650 from Carine a couple of years ago. With the Dillinger kit I never drop from the biggest front chain ring. At the rear I'll use rings 5-8 and stand on the pedals to keep the motor spinning above 24 kmh in the bigger hill sections so it doesn't get bogged down (eg. Gribble Road Balcatta and Path just before Warwick Road heading North). With the kit you're looking at I know you'll be using less gears than I am and it should be a pretty awesome machine.

Click to expand...

Yeah I know what you mean... my 29er looks like a tank compared to my road bike. I'm 5'10 90kg and got a small size frame... it's "just" about right for me. I run a Big Apple on the rear ($60), but it's wearing out way too fast. I bought some Conti Travel Contacts from chain reaction ($26.99 each) and will see how they go when my big apple finally wears out.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/continental-travel-contact-wire-road-tyre/rp-prod83063

29er's are just bigger all round. You stand taller, handlebar width is 720mm instead of 680 etc. I run a more powerful MAC10T setup at 48V and so hit 50km/h pretty easy, so weight, wind and gearing isnt really an issue for me. That said, I do run a 9 speed rear that came with the bike. Check my sig for my build log (the purchase list changes 1/2 way through, but at least you get video at the end).