THE BEST mid drive derailleur set up!

Hey guys, on my second hand Jamis Dakkar I recently bought, I realised that one of the sides of the arms is snapped and while the other side is still doing the job, I'm guessing that it won't stand up to the forces of my Lightningrod setup once it's on the bike.

What's on there at the moment is a Shimano 9 speed XT derailleur. Now the question is, do I simply replace the arm, or should I upgrade to something even more appropriate to a mid drive conversion (something with a clutch like the XT shadow or the like)?

thats a pretty high end unit . although u may want a bigger than 8 speed chain so u may have to change it to a cheaper deraillerur or some option im not aware of because i know nothing about middrives....

Hmmm I didn't realise that chains changed size with the amount of gears you have...

Perhaps I should wait until i get the motor...

You might hear from me in a bit re this then!

AFAICR 5,6,7,and 8 all use the same gear spacing and the same type of chain. 9 and above use thinner chains and different shifters.
otherDoc

Ah ok, good to know. I will talk to Lightningrod about it.

Yeah I might go down to a 8 speed or lower for the stronger chain as I will be putting up to 2,000w through the system!

So what what system do people suggest keeping in mind I will get a new derailleur, rear sprocket and chain?

Ideally a rear socket with a large range would be great, and a derailleur with a clutch or whatever it's called to stop slap and a heavy spring to prevent gear skipping.

Yeah I might go down to a 8 speed or lower for the stronger chain as I will be putting up to 2,000w through the system!

So what what system do people suggest keeping in mind I will get a new derailleur, rear sprocket and chain?

Ideally a rear socket with a large range would be great, and a derailleur with a clutch or whatever it's called to stop slap and a heavy spring to prevent gear skipping.

Yeah I might go down to a 8 speed or lower for the stronger chain as I will be putting up to 2,000w through the system!

So what what system do people suggest keeping in mind I will get a new derailleur, rear sprocket and chain?

Ideally a rear socket with a large range would be great, and a derailleur with a clutch or whatever it's called to stop slap and a heavy spring to prevent gear skipping.

Hmm ok from what I can find from a lengthy search is that the only rear derailleur's with a clutch type system are the Shimano shadow plus series and the SRAM Type 2 series. Unfortunately neither of them have a 7 or 8 speed in their lineup (Ok SRAM does have a 7 speed but the cheapest I have found it is $200!!!).

Then i found these articles about modifying these systems to work with an 8 speed system, but I don't fully understand what I would need to do...

http://faqload.com/faqs/bicycle-com...-rear-derailleur-with-9-speed-or-even-8-speed

http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=153122

Exactly what numbers am I looking for? :/

From what I gather, the cassette on the rear determines your chain "size"/speed.
7 speed chain, 8 speed chain, 9 speed chain etc etc etc

The front doesnt matter. When you buy front chain rings.

I did research on this when I found my bike, had 8 speed stuff on it, I had 9 speed bike.
Broken rear der. Took shifters off, broke one by accident. It was the X8 type, didnt like the style of finger movement to change.

Derailleurs are "dumb", so you can use same der on whatever speed cassette.

XT is a good der.

The more speeds, the thinner the chain.

Sure its interchangable for chains, but might have some issues.

Hmmmm one of the articles seemed to suggest that there is a preset amount of movement for each gear shift. Which makes sense. ie. to go from one gear to the next it would be say, 4mm per gear on a 10 speed and 6mm for a 7 speed. Or is it the gear levers that predetermines that? Basically I'd purchase the 9 or 10 speed derailleur and a 8 speed chain and gearset.

Should work? :/

gear levers determines it

Can anyone else weigh in on this subject? Will a 10 speed rear derailleur work with an 8 speed cassette and chain?

Specifically the Shimano shadow plus series (clutched).

When I was ordering up the components for my MAC/Trek build, added in a freewheel from EM3ev and in the process was persuaded to get a 7 gear, replacing an 8 gear on the Trek. My thinking at the time - that with 1 less gear, I'd get a better fit of the freewheel on the MAC. That loosing the low gear was not going to matter much. Both the 7 and 8 gear freewheels had the 11 tooth, which where I'd be most of the time. Didn't even notice it until I took my Trek into the bike shop to get a better saddle and the mechanic put it on the rack to adjust the brakes. He did notice and commented as I ranted on as above.

But it was like, wrong way to think about it and I probably should have gotten the 8 gear freewheel after all. The lever is preset to move a certain distance per shift and the difference between the 7 and 8 is not the total width of the freewheel, as they would be identical, but a fractional difference that means the lever is no longer matched to that freewheel.

But I'm still riding and not finding a problem - seems to shift OK to me. Means the difference is too small to cause a problem. Maybe? Means maybe I don't care.

What I do care about is that the commonly available freewheels are not adapted to my motor. I'm most of the time in the highest gear available. As a matter of fact, I don't really shift hardly at all. I'm always pedalling and I only adjust my throttle to manage my ride. And I've got the 3-speed switch for the MAC set to the 2nd position, because the 3rd position is too fast - my pedalling provides no additional motive force.

I've been wondering about this and what I might want to do, what my options might be. So I can pedal and throttle full out. Maybe achieve that 30 mph which was my goal. Suggestions?

MTBR Forums is a good place for quick answers and easy searching of the forums.

I may have been mistaken.
Just by going to different websites that sell parts, MEC.ca, there seems to be a range.
6/7
7/8
8/9
Some are specific, 9 another one is just 10.
Keep in mind capacity, small gear and big gear. I messed up on mine, factory came 42/32/22 front gears, I put on 44/32/22 so now its harder to get to 44 gear. Same goes for rear, there is a capacity issue there that correlates to your rear der.

Hopefully someone else with more expirience will chime in.

There can't be fewer teeth than 11 on the rear, right? I mean its just teeth around the fixed circumference of the freewheel.

I do believe 11T is the smallest cog/ring. I have never seen one smaller.

So that means only the front chainring might be adjusted. But then also a longer chain to adjust for the extra dimension? Also, since the front derailleur has a certain fixed positioning, that would need to be changed as well, huh?

Hmmm so still haven't found a 100% sure answer...

I have also heard about the BURD derailleur which has a heavy spring in it to keep the chain on (but not clutch). How do they compare to the clutched type kits?

As far as I know the front der. would be moved up to account for the larger diameter. But again the front der I believe has a max big ring specifications. Again, just look at different front der. specs on websites. I am just going off memory. Trying to fill my memory with ebike knowledge now. Huge learning curve. There is some wiggle room, as when you set up the chain, big front, small rear, the rear der should be vertical.
Mine isnt so, my chain is too short, hence more tension on the rear der, its at more of a 8 oclock position. And I do believe there is a misconcenption when looking at front der specs, some will say a speed in the specs. Probably tooth dimensions or something. I did a look, and was more confused when I was looking for info like you are. Again MTBR is a great forum to check out, do searches. Also there is another website Sheldon, google it, a wealth of information on general stuff and very specific old, outdated stuff.

Wow, I asked over on MTBR and got a little flamed... Not much ebike love over there...

Ok I might approach this another way....

What have people successfully used on their mid drives? (1.5-2kw)

Kiriakos GR, very witty response that has no bearing on the subject at hand.

I think I lost sight of the question.

No, an 8 speed chain won't run on a 9/10 speed derailure. Many people will try and say they are the same, but the cogs are a different width. A wide 8 chain on a narrow 9 or 10 cog will slop about effecting shift accuracy.

Most 9/10s are 11T but you can get 11T in 8 speed if you look hard enough. It won't be Shimano though. They want 10T on 8s and 11T on 9/10 to stop you simply fitting the right wheels.

Crank inner wheels differ on 10 speed, by having the teeth off center to make grouping closer. So the shifter involved has a slightly different stroke.

7&8 speed spacing differs in shimano. 5mm and 4.8mm respectively. SRAM 7&8 are both 5mm. The shifters stroke is close enough to mix&match but you will get shoddy changes like using 8 chain on the 9/10


Was the answer in there somewhere? If not, please try again.

Yeah, I think I've given up on getting the Shadow plus and converting it...

Now I'm just after the best 7/8 speed setup for my setup. Wondering what people have used successfully...

I have figured out the answer for a rear derailleur!

Yes, you can mate a 7 speed chain and cassette to a 10 speed clutched Shimano derailleur!!!

The parts I used were;

Shimano Shadow plus rear derailleur
7 speed cassette
7 speed chain
SRAM X3 7 speed shifter
4.5mm (off the top of my head) cassette spacer

and that's it! The whole thing only cost me a bit over $100AUD!

I may have to put some little spacer in the lever arm (on the derailleur) to get the ratio's 100% perfect, but I'm not sure yet as I can't ride it because I just blew my shocks. But just by lifting up the back wheel and spinning it, even without a proper tune, it seems as though it's really damn close in ratio!

I wonder if this will start a wave of clutched 7 speed mountain bikes!?