Electric X project - Petrol enhanced battery-electric bike.

cj7hawk

10 W
Joined
Mar 2, 2015
Messages
94
Hi All,

My first post, so please forgive any faux-pas ( and correct me to what I should have done ) but I thought I'd introduce my project - It's an Electric-X ( Extended Range ) bicycle project. It combines an battery-electric system with a small generator that has the throttle controlled based on the load being presented to it, so it can charge the battery during use of the bicycle, so it's not technically a hybrid, which allows both petrol and electric motors - it's an Electric-Extended system.

I started with a cheap $80 bicycle that was already about a decade old, and began rebuilding it into what I need to test/develop my project.

david-IMG_20150325_174331867_Small.jpg

OK, you can laugh... I does work though.

I've made a few daft mistakes already- and screwed up the output power from the battery-electric system - it's putting out around 130w at the moment, when I really want 200w ( I'm in Australia, so have to keep within local rules ) but that aside, it's only a platform for the extended system I'm playing with - And I intend to tweak the voltage as required anyway... Hopefully that will fix the issues.

The extended system contains a number of components - First, I've mated a 300w DC brushed generator to a 33cc petrol 4-stroke motor to provide the power - it's all COTS parts, except the couples and shafts, which are all custom-3D printed, and currently made of plastic ( and enhanced by metal components ).

david-IMG_20150215_202727684_Small.jpg


This provides the power which is filtered by a rectifier and a LC circuit with a fairly large choke and a very solid capacitive array with over 20A RMS ripple current rating. It's not perfect for direct drive of sensitive electronics, but is more than suited to the battery charge requirements and the down-converters and charge controllers for different applications - The whole system should work with brushless as well, up to about 1.5kW, though the motor tops out at 1.2 and I have designed this one to run at 800W maximum, 300W continuous.

david-VID_20150329_110026613.mp4_snapshot_00.02_2015.03.29_11.10.20.jpg

It's all still bench testing, except the bicycle, which did actually ride, but the rear rack I got to install the system was bent, and it takes several weeks for a new one to arrive - :(

Overall, voltage and power regulation comes from the autothrottle, which forms a wide-closed-loop system, using the capacitors and battery as a buffer and adjusts the motor output as necessary. This took a while to develop and uses 3D printed parts also - it's fairly quick and can keep the voltage within +1/-2v of the setting, though has been intended to work with a wide hysteresis value to avoid hunting. Still, it's quick enough that I can start the engine on WOT ( Wide open throttle ) and it will respond within a few 10ths of a second to drop it back to the correct power setting before it has a chance to over-current the batteries, so it seems pretty solid, though I'll include a "motor running" detector in future circuits to close the throttle automatically if the motor shuts down before the circuitry is disengages.

Well, it's still coming along, but the motor and controls can respond to a 250w load coming online instantly, with the engine throttling up as soon as the battery voltage begins to drop and supplying the power needed. It will also maintain suitable float voltages to maintain the batteries even at extended idle ( I usually set so float voltage is around 27~28v at very low power... ) - So the current version is suited to direct connect however later prototypes will include a charge/load controller and boost/buck circuit so I can run batteries at any voltage with any generator combination, and also have direct input capability for PV cells as well - since that will maintain charge and operation when the motor is off.

Overall, it doesn't look that impressive, but all the parts seem to work correctly and I'm hoping to start riding it around in about a month or so - perhaps to and from work. I'm aiming for 140km/liter of fuel, so the small included tank should get me 30km and back easy enough - Also, that will possibly make it one of the first practical road-legal super-low consumption vehicles around, but then again I'm new to this, so perhaps they are already everywhere and I'm just not noticing it. It does support automatic starting, so I could include an autostop when the power drops below 10w for more than a few seconds, meaning it would be good for traffic too -

The small cycles for the battery should be good as well - and I'm hoping a single set of batteries will last the bike's lifetime - since it can cope with a lot of capacity loss as the batteries are constantly being charged/protected from load by the petrol engine.

So, as the project progresses, I'm interested in what people think, any suggestions you can help with ( Most of the problems with this idea I have been finding in the same way you find furniture in a dark room ) and any suggestions regarding features I should include ( yes, I will be including USB output for my phone... ;) But suggestions for good lights for the bike, at 12v or 24v, or the likes are greatly appreciated. )

Current status - Running and operational on the test bench - Just waiting to get a good rear-rack ( quick mount/dismount as the bicycle electrical system will remain on the bike - this is for a smart petrol-engine based charger with the capacity of around 300w continuous )
 
Interesting stuff - how much does the range extending portion of the build weigh all up? Being 4 stroke I assume it's not as loud as a 2 smoke, any comparison for volume?
 
Some may scoff, at the stink, noise etc negating the beauty of an ebike. But depending on your needs, a gas powered charger can be a viable choice provided it's not too heavy.

My very old Honda generator is about 60 pounds, and just too heavy to lug around for 600w of power. So I just carry larger batteries for 40-70 mile range.

I wouldn't want to carry gas power around for shorter rides, anything less than 30 miles though. Too easy to just get a battery big enough for that distance.

Your battery will not last forever. If it's kept in a warmer climate fully charged, it will last 3, possibly 4 years. Even with zero cycles. It may still be usable longer, but it will have poor capacity after a few years being stored warm and full.
 
How heavy is that bike? Can the bike frame hold all the weight? I would be concerned about the frame cracking while riding.
 
The range extender system is heavy and bulky, yet might be very useful to some. I would rather pull a trailer, the one-wheel type. Boxing the bed with Lipos, improving suspension... A compact and smooth riding trailer than you can use to carry charging system (s), long range capacity, tools and luggage.

Mounted on the bike itself, I believe it should be possible to build light enough using fuel cell system. Imagine inserting a small Hydrogen bottle to charge your bike in 45 sec. 8)
 
Ohbse said:
Interesting stuff - how much does the range extending portion of the build weigh all up? Being 4 stroke I assume it's not as loud as a 2 smoke, any comparison for volume?

Volume is slightly lower, but running at lower speeds make a bigger difference, so it does run quieter -still, I think there's room for improvement there but for the moment I'll use the existing muffler as it's caged off and won't burn anyone.

All up? Just a touch under 6kg dry. The tank onboard is 650ml so about 400~500gm extra. Comparable to extra batteries I guess.

Regards
David
 
MadRhino said:
The range extender system is heavy and bulky, yet might be very useful to some. I would rather pull a trailer, the one-wheel type. Boxing the bed with Lipos, improving suspension... A compact and smooth riding trailer than you can use to carry charging system (s), long range capacity, tools and luggage.

Mounted on the bike itself, I believe it should be possible to build light enough using fuel cell system. Imagine inserting a small Hydrogen bottle to charge your bike in 45 sec. 8)


LoL! Give me a botle and I'll take it ;)

As for more batteries, it's less polluting that charging batteries here in Australia, but we have pretty dirty power... And nothing wrong with a box of lipo's in a trailer, but our 200w limit means it's not as practical either as it would weigh the bike down a little bit more - Also, I don't have to keep it charged, so it's more suitable for casual riding, since I don't have to charge it and keep it topped up before taking a ride - Worst case, just cycle down to the petrol station, give them 50c for fuel and charge the batteries as I ride off. ( It has electric start, but the manual start works fine too )

Regards
David
 
lester12483 said:
How heavy is that bike? Can the bike frame hold all the weight? I would be concerned about the frame cracking while riding.

The bike isn't heavy... It's our equivalent of a "WalMart Bicycle" - but it's only 6kg more for the generator which will sit on a 25kg capacity bicycle rack, and the batteries will move to the lower bar ( I'm just making up a weight distribution system which I 3d printed off this evening to remount the batteries ) So the electrics are about another 3.5kg including batteries...

Overall, it's not the batteries of generator I'm worried about - it's the 100kg fat guy who rides it... If an extra 9kg is going to make it break, I'm kind of worried...

Actually, given it's a budget bicycle, I probably should be worried - but the welds look OK and the bike seems strong enough. I do check it for cracks once in a while... ( some limited background in aviation working with ultralights )

Regards
David
 
Having the ICE motor on a one-wheel trailer might help convince skeptical authorities that its not actually a stinkbike.

It'll be interesting to find out the milage numbers. Using the gas motor to power the wheel mechanically would be more efficient, but illegal.

Another interesting advantage of such a setup is that it removes the need for a clutch. The Walker company used to make a milk delivery vehicle with a gasoline-generator that used electrical relays and the throttle to power motors on the the axle for the purpose of avoiding the need for a clutch and transmission.

http://www.jcristmuseum.org/walker38.SHTML
Coupled to the flywheel of that gas engine was a huge generator that produced electricity while the engine was running. The electricity that the generator produced was controlled by relays and switches, that sent the electricity to an electric motor mounted in the rear of the chassis. … Walker had a special designed rear axle assembly that had the electric motor installed sideways within that rear housing. There was a very small differential spider gear assembly on one end of that electric motor and the ring gear assembly was mounted inside a drum attached to each rear brake drum. These ring gears were turned by the axle shafts connected to the electric motor in the rear housing. (See picture diagram). This was a very unique method of propelling these delivery trucks. It was the forerunner design of the Diesel Locomotive power source of today.


walker.jpg
walker2.jpg

Another cheap way to do something similar would be to hack off the front of a moped and use that as your one-wheel trailer. Tack the generator motor onto the moped's crankshaft and run a 'trim' throttle cable to the bicycle. A motorcycle voltage regulator would serve the purpose and any 'over current' could be absorbed by a lead-acid battery just as it is on motorcycles. Probably wouldn't be as efficient as your setup, but it could be cheap.
 
cj7hawk said:
Ohbse said:
Interesting stuff - how much does the range extending portion of the build weigh all up? Being 4 stroke I assume it's not as loud as a 2 smoke, any comparison for volume?

Volume is slightly lower, but running at lower speeds make a bigger difference, so it does run quieter -still, I think there's room for improvement there but for the moment I'll use the existing muffler as it's caged off and won't burn anyone.

All up? Just a touch under 6kg dry. The tank onboard is 650ml so about 400~500gm extra. Comparable to extra batteries I guess.

Regards
David

I really don't mean to rain on your parade as you've done some really good work here, but at 6.5kg you could have a 12s11p configured battery assembled of 3200mah 18650 cells delivering 1.5kWh or >100km range running well beyond the legal power limit. That same battery can be charged in <3 hours, 80% charge in 1 hour very possible. My 1800w charger is ~2kg. How often do you want to ride more than 100km in a stint? I'm guessing not frequently. These batteries will do many hundreds of complete cycles and likely thousands of partials without dropping below 80% of original capacity. That's >50,000km total which is likely to be beyond the lifespan of your cheap-ish bicycle components. That's possible now, with the iterative improvements in battery, controller and motor technology you can expect a 10-20% improvement on range/energy or cost (unfortunately it's not usually both at the same time) each year going forward.

So other than for the pure purpose of learning and having fun (which I respect a lot) I don't think there's actually a problem that this can solve.
 
Ohbse said:
cj7hawk said:
Ohbse said:
Interesting stuff - how much does the range extending portion of the build weigh all up? Being 4 stroke I assume it's not as loud as a 2 smoke, any comparison for volume?

Volume is slightly lower, but running at lower speeds make a bigger difference, so it does run quieter -still, I think there's room for improvement there but for the moment I'll use the existing muffler as it's caged off and won't burn anyone.

All up? Just a touch under 6kg dry. The tank onboard is 650ml so about 400~500gm extra. Comparable to extra batteries I guess.

Regards
David

I really don't mean to rain on your parade as you've done some really good work here, but at 6.5kg you could have a 12s11p configured battery assembled of 3200mah 18650 cells delivering 1.5kWh or >100km range running well beyond the legal power limit. That same battery can be charged in <3 hours, 80% charge in 1 hour very possible. My 1800w charger is ~2kg. How often do you want to ride more than 100km in a stint? I'm guessing not frequently. These batteries will do many hundreds of complete cycles and likely thousands of partials without dropping below 80% of original capacity. That's >50,000km total which is likely to be beyond the lifespan of your cheap-ish bicycle components. That's possible now, with the iterative improvements in battery, controller and motor technology you can expect a 10-20% improvement on range/energy or cost (unfortunately it's not usually both at the same time) each year going forward.

So other than for the pure purpose of learning and having fun (which I respect a lot) I don't think there's actually a problem that this can solve.

Hi Ohbse,

It's important to understand that I'm not trying to make batteries obsolete - and while I'm not sure about the costs of what you're proposing ( I'm going to guess it's under $500 ) and you have covered most of my range requirements ( 1kWh would do most of what I need ) you've already hit on the main limitation of batteries right there - Charge is 1 hour - and that's assuming a lot of optimums.

On the other hand, I tend to ride casual without planning to ride and it might be weeks in-between rides... Or days, or just hours :) For me, deciding to ride, then waiting even an hour before I can take the bike out is strictly a deal-breaker, not to mention I'd have to have a strategy to keep the bicycle constantly charged, which I don't have, so I'd probably take the car instead. And a good electric car ? That's fine, as I drive enough that planning to use an electric car is OK - so it's just a problem with bicycles for me.

Keep in mind too that charging at home and bringing the generator are pretty close as options for me - The cost is similar - I pay nearly the same for grid power that I would if I generated it myself and it's actually cleaner for me to generate it myself of petrol because of local policies... So there's no benefit to me in charging at home over charging on the road anyway.

Also, I wanted something that isn't going to run out because I've forgotten to charge it - There are no charge stations for me, and yeah, I guess I could still pedal, but on a 40 degree day (104F), riding into work, assuming I decided to ride on such a day, which I guess is as likely as any other day here in Australia, I'd be miffed if I realized I had forgotten to charge it and had to pedal my way in, without facilities to change or even a clean change of clothes - keep in mind, not all of us want to join the lycra brigade.

This puts me in a unique position - so for me, it makes sense to have a small generator and to use it almost all the time :)

And you know, a lot of people like me would use bicycles in the same way - many who buy electrics just leave them to discharge in the corner of the garage before digging them out and selling them - having to deal with constant charging doesn't work for everyone... It seems to be a person by person trait. Some handle it well, some don't... I don't. I get around my charging problems with my phone by constantly leaving it on the charger and making calls on it via bluetooth - but it's an everyday item, so I cope OK. But I'm constantly having my laptop run dry because I'm not so good with it... :( It's unfortunate my workplace wouldn't want me bringing it with a small generator attached ;)

So from that perspective, you can see my motivations... Very simple and all I really want is convenience and low-cost range, with not having to worry about charging. I realize that's not a common view on this forum - because most here probably sit in the side of regular chargers - but I'm in the other camp of "charger-impaired" people and I guess what I'm doing goes towards opening up such options to such people.

Also, I live off-grid some of the time, and getting home and firing up a big-ass generator to charge up my bike doesn't seem like a good idea... Also, that was somewhat of a motivation - I'm learning to build my own generators and to understand what is needed for an auto-start system that can deliver high on-power demands with relatively small batteries so I can run power 24x7 without having to constantly rely on generators being on, or large arrays of batteries. Having a system that is small, yet responds to needs for lighting, pumps, etc without notice would be incredibly useful to me - And I can deal with the noise from a 33cc motor more easily than an 8kW system.

So there are practical purposes for my research outside of what I'm doing - but for bicycles? It's mainly range, and the ability to work without charging stations - with potential ranges up to 1000km in between charges. That makes such a bicycle system suitable for touring and camping, neither of which any battery based system comes close to being suitable for.

This doesn't mean you're wrong - I'm just working to niche requirements where your suggestion isn't as-good a fit :) And yes, >100km in between charges is a requirement - It doesn't mean I have to ride it all in one go - It just means that I don't have the opportunity to recharge in other locations. A typical day's riding for me ( if I commute ) about 60 to 70km equivalent with no charge as I live on the edge of the metropolitan area. That's about 3 hours on a bike, for a route that takes around 1.2 hours in a car - though in traffic, it's still 2 hours in a car and 2.4 hours public transport ( allowing for missed connects, long delays on transfers etc. ) so even with those kinds of times, a bicycle is within the range of practical transport solutions.

Will I do it that way? Who knows. Maybe if it happens a lot, a better battery bank is the way to go... But few have built such systems as I'm building in the past, and there's no commercial solution available - Even in China, BEV-x systems start at 1kW and 20Kg...

Regards
David.
 
Just an update - I finished building in the E-bike conversion parts. The batteries are held in by 120kg-strength nylon straps and the straps are held in place by 3D printed braces that also distribute the force securely to the batteries and guide the straps so they can't move away from where they need to be. It all comes out pretty solid, even if maybe a little junkyardish.

david-IMG_20150331_105502827_Small.jpg


It's a lot neater this way.

The controller fits in the back and it all provides a nice cavity I can coil up excess wire inside, and later cover that section up with a box that fits that location. The terminals at the top will be covered by a small box that will also contain the charging port and the key/switch to connect the system.

Regards
David.
 
Would it be illegal to just make it a gas bike? Guy in my area has a "stinker", using what looks to me like an identical size engine. He did a really nice job of it, built entirely from found parts, not a kit like the china girl kits. He runs about 30 mph on it!

He just ran a belt drive to a very large pulley on his wheel.

I just find myself wondering what the point of the electric part of your bike is, if you don't like batteries so much.

In any case, If I didn't say it before, GREAT JOB YOU DID on building a generator at less than 15 pounds! NICE work. But for casual riding I just wonder why. If you wanted to ride out to a remote place, no plugs to charge, further than 1000wh batery could handle and make it back, then using the generator would make great sense.

Tried to carry my 60 pound Honda in a one wheel trailer I got just the other week. Nope, still just way to heavy. I have about 1500wh of battery, but I'd still like to have a light enough generator to carry for the reallllly long rides.
 
dogman dan said:
Would it be illegal to just make it a gas bike? Guy in my area has a "stinker", using what looks to me like an identical size engine. He did a really nice job of it, built entirely from found parts, not a kit like the china girl kits. He runs about 30 mph on it!

He just ran a belt drive to a very large pulley on his wheel.

I just find myself wondering what the point of the electric part of your bike is, if you don't like batteries so much.

In any case, If I didn't say it before, GREAT JOB YOU DID on building a generator at less than 15 pounds! NICE work. But for casual riding I just wonder why. If you wanted to ride out to a remote place, no plugs to charge, further than 1000wh batery could handle and make it back, then using the generator would make great sense.

Tried to carry my 60 pound Honda in a one wheel trailer I got just the other week. Nope, still just way to heavy. I have about 1500wh of battery, but I'd still like to have a light enough generator to carry for the reallllly long rides.

I have a gas bike - but aside from worrying that they will ban them as a propulsion motor for bicycles ( there's a lot an anti-petrol-bicycle agendas at the moment ) having an Electric-X system means I can also qualify for other exemptions, specifically Pedelec's where the "maximum power" is kinda grey, as long as it's under 250w and 25 kph... That means you can generate massive torque up hills - a kilowatt for a short period at lower speeds seems to comply with the law... Even with electrics it seems OK to exceed maximum power for a short time - but with petrol, it's difficult to engineer so you end up with maximum power at 200w ( local laws ) and the torque curve isn't as close to ideal.

Also, 4-stroke gas bikes are more complicated and the torque curve is even more difficult to tweak than an electric, and for both, torque under 10 kph is non-existent, and electrics all have fantastic torque from a standing start up to 10kph ( my "120w" bike can spin the wheel if it's up against a wall )

So yeah, a lot of technical/legal reasons that an Electric-X is suited to where I am - :) Overall, it seems the perfect solution that even a hybrid can't solve - the downside is efficiency - but the power is low enough and the losses small enough that I can ignore that.

As for casual riding? Mainly the appeal is that I never have to worry if the battery is charged, because I can always leave fuel in the tank :) ( or top it up in 2 minutes ) - And I can refuel anywhere if I get low. It's not that I don't like batteries - I LOVE batteries... I'm just too incompetent to remember to charge them :(

Though having made a suitable mounts for SLA batteries, I'm starting to think that maybe I should set my next goal at making a smaller Lithium battery for it.

Thanks for the congrats - :) From what I can tell, a lot of people have headed down this path, but I seem to be the first to get to practical test operation stage where the generator responds to load and charges the batteries correctly. I keep telling myself someone else must have done it before and I even located a 7A 12V microgen of similar design that used manual throttle control, but I have yet to find a complete automatic solution made by anyone. 300w would be enough to charge your system, but you might need a larger generator, which would push the weight up a little.

Regards
David
 
I charge my bike with an 1800watt charger. If I was riding at the speeds you are targeting that means adding 1km of range every 20 seconds. 10 minute charge - 30 km of range. If your battery is of a suitable size in the first place, it's virtually never going to be flat anyway. Lets assume it's half full with a 100 km range. You decide to go for a ride, you plug the charger in. You go take a bathroom break, drink a tall glass of water, find your jacket, gloves and helmet and get them on. Look up where you're riding to on your phone. It's been 11 minutes and you now have an 83 km usable range, probably enough for several hours of travel.

Remind me again how that's affecting your flexibility?

Worst case, you forget to charge. Because your battery isn't tiny you've still got enough range to cruise for an hour. In your backpack is a 2kg, 1.8kw charger and a 10 metre extension cord that you can plug in *anywhere*. I can guarantee you could find a power outlet somewhere in your travels within 10 metres of a suitable parking spot and somebody willing to let you use it. Like I said, you only need 10 minutes... say you plug in at a cafe. You grab a coffee and a muffin. By the time your muffin is gone and you've hit the bottom of the cup and read all about the latest sporting domination of new zealand you've got another 60km of range.

You get home, you plug the bike in - this time set to hit your 'storage' charge to promote battery longevity (approximately half full). After 25 minutes or less the charger is done. I think this is the future your talents would be better placed pursuing...
 
Ohbse said:
... I can guarantee you could find a power outlet somewhere in your travels within 10 metres of a suitable parking spot...

Perhaps that was the case several years ago but times have changed. Publicly 'exposed' power outlets have been locked down to keep the 'homeless' and other "transients' from using them. Even in places like hospitals, libraries and airports 'exposed' power outlets have been replaced with 'charging stations' (with extortionist rates) to provide an additional revenue stream.
 
LewTwo said:
Ohbse said:
... I can guarantee you could find a power outlet somewhere in your travels within 10 metres of a suitable parking spot...

Perhaps that was the case several years ago but times have changed. Publicly 'exposed' power outlets have been locked down to keep the 'homeless' and other "transients' from using them. Even in places like hospitals, libraries and airports 'exposed' power outlets have been replaced with 'charging stations' (with extortionist rates) to provide an additional revenue stream.

It might not be a free and public point but I don't doubt a lot of cafe's have power points available. Starbucks are always happy for people to plug in their laptops and work away, at least around here. Honestly it's a hypothetical scenario for me as I have yet to require opportunity charging. I have about an 80 km range running at 50-60km/h which is frankly longer than I would want to be on a bike for. If I'm going to work - I can charge. Friends house? Power no problem.
 
Ohbse said:
LewTwo said:
Ohbse said:
... I can guarantee you could find a power outlet somewhere in your travels within 10 metres of a suitable parking spot...

Perhaps that was the case several years ago but times have changed. Publicly 'exposed' power outlets have been locked down to keep the 'homeless' and other "transients' from using them. Even in places like hospitals, libraries and airports 'exposed' power outlets have been replaced with 'charging stations' (with extortionist rates) to provide an additional revenue stream.

It might not be a free and public point but I don't doubt a lot of cafe's have power points available. Starbucks are always happy for people to plug in their laptops and work away, at least around here. Honestly it's a hypothetical scenario for me as I have yet to require opportunity charging. I have about an 80 km range running at 50-60km/h which is frankly longer than I would want to be on a bike for. If I'm going to work - I can charge. Friends house? Power no problem.

Ohbse, I did mention I live off-grid sometimes. :) Maybe when I eventually install a lot of solar panels, then charging when I get home will be more viable, but at the moment it's not.

I may turn my attention after this project is working to how to 3D print large batteries, and on reviewing battery prices, it looks like 1.5kWH and the related parts should probably cost somewhere around US$200~$300 for something made from Lithium Ion cells, so I might have a play with that later, so the suggestion I look into that was helpful :)

However as a casual bike user, being able to charge the batteries on-the-go has a lot of appeal, as does working out how to use fairly small batteries as well. Also, on reviewing this site, there's clearly a lot missing from battery technology with respect to making it more bicycle friendly.

Regards
David
 
I missed that bit about living off grid at times too. That's reason enough for what you are doing. Easier to have a can of gas at home. Nothing wrong with having a small generator at the off grid house that can charge your battery either, if you wanted to not carry it all the time. Certainly don't want to fire up a 3000w generator to pull 100w.

Nevertheless, you'd definitely benefit from having a bigger, longer lasting, lower cost per mile lithium battery. Soon as I saw that 24v lead setup, I began to totally understand your frustration with waiting on a charge.

Unlikely you'd ever really need a gas back up, if you had a 1000 watt hour lithium battery on that bike. You could then ride 15-18 mph for about 50 miles per charge. But it does cost $$$.
 
dogman dan said:
I missed that bit about living off grid at times too. That's reason enough for what you are doing. Easier to have a can of gas at home. Nothing wrong with having a small generator at the off grid house that can charge your battery either, if you wanted to not carry it all the time. Certainly don't want to fire up a 3000w generator to pull 100w.

Nevertheless, you'd definitely benefit from having a bigger, longer lasting, lower cost per mile lithium battery. Soon as I saw that 24v lead setup, I began to totally understand your frustration with waiting on a charge.

Unlikely you'd ever really need a gas back up, if you had a 1000 watt hour lithium battery on that bike. You could then ride 15-18 mph for about 50 miles per charge. But it does cost $$$.

Yeah, I thought Lithiums were really expensive too, so I did some research... You get around 10 x 18650 4000~5000mAH batteries for $15 - Ten packs is around $150 for ~1.5kWH. So that actually has me wondering if there's an easier way to pack them all together that's safe and reliable, that could deliver 36v @ 10A just fine. I might give some serious thought to changing batteries after I finish getting the generator operating as I want it to. Small parallel cells that could be bolted together in a modular form would be an easy way to do it - though I'd need to modify my gen setup with an appropriate battery controller.

Regards
David
 
Do not buy those cells! No 18650 cells exists with anywhere near that capacity - they are a scam and you will be ripped off! Avoid anything named "ultrafire" or similar and avoid pretty much everything on ebay.
 
Yes, don't buy from that lying vendor. But there are options for a pretty affordable battery based on the cheapest possible 4s RC toy batteries. You can definitely do 1000wh for under a thou including all charging stuff, if not way under. Next round cheaper, since you don't have to buy a charger twice, usually.

Lots of options also, for good 18650 cells, including just buying a pack from a reliable vendor. For sure, a reliable battery of at least 750wh (36v 20ah) would make you independent of the generator for at least 15 miles. Then you can run the generator to start charging the battery after an hour or so of riding without the noise and stink.
 
Too late !!!! :(

But fortunately I only ordered 1 set ( 10 pcs ) of batteries. I'm starting to think I'll be lucky if I get 1AH out of them. But I'll be able to prove the concept with them anyway and I can always choose another battery to fit later - most of what I need to do is build the housings for the batteries that will combine them all in parallel. Also, they should be current protected, which will be useful too.

I did actually do a search before I bought them and found some good reviews, and then as soon as I had bought them, found all the BAD reviews :evil: -

Anyway, around a thousand-ish is outside of my budget in the foreseeable future, but it would be nice to extend the battery-only range. I'll make up the modular battery housing and see whether it's worth going to the next step. I guess I'll have to do a little more research before committing to ordering 100 batteries if the initial experiments are successful.

Well, I'm hopeful that this week the voltage booster and the new rack will arrive and I can start to work towards getting this project on the road - :)

Regards
David
 
Interesting project. One item I would change on the bike it to get a heavy duty street tire. It will give you lower rolling resistance. I could tell when I did my bike conversion.
 
Neat project,wont the cops still bug you with a gas motor on the bicycle.
 
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