Need New Bike - what would be best for my situation?

First off - I have only posted here a few times, but this forum and the folks who share their knowledge have been instrumental to getting me where I am today with ebikes and for that I am so grateful because ebiking is the best thing in my world since sliced bread! Thanks!

So I have a conversion kit from Em3ev - MAC 10T with 30a infineon controller and 50v 24.8AH Triangle Battery. This kit has worked out great for me, except I mounted it to my 1980's Panasonic Touring Bike. This conversion works okay, but I have realized that I need to mount my kit on a bike with suspension and mountain bike handlebars. For my 42 year old body, riding 30-40 miles @ 23mph on a bike with no suspension is just too rough. So I need a new bike to put my kit on and could really use the guidance of you experienced folks.

So I was thinking I would get a bike with front shocks and use a Thudbuster under my seat (with my sprung Brooks B67) for the suspension. My MAC 10T is currently mounted to a 700c DM24 rim that is designed for cantilever brakes. I want the bike to have comfortable geometry and be durable enough to carry 30-50 lbs in panniers (I weigh around 185lbs) on top of my heavy battery. I like to cruise around 20-25mph - about 20% of my riding is done on gravel roads.

So there are so many moving parts, I just don't know where to begin. Not only that, but I am really out of the loop with modern bike technology. Should I look for something that can fit my 700c rim (it looks like a 29er does this)? Or should I look for a 26" rim mountain bike and get my motor built into new wheel? Is it easy to switch my rim over to disc brakes - should I? My budget is $750 (but rather spend less) and I am open to new or used bikes. I am just not sure which kind of bike (hybrid or mountain) and what size tires make the most sense in my situation. My battery is big and heavy and needs a triangle that can fit it, so rear-suspension bikes seem out of contention.

Any suggestions for my situation would be great! I am looking for something that will last and will work out well for my situation so I won't have to go through this again in future and can just enjoy my awesome electric bike. Thanks!

I think going directly for a 26" rim mountain bike will make you save money, that's a bigger market, so prices are better for front suspensions ones.

You would use front or rear motor?

You 100% need disc brakes, 26" rims.

Try a seatpost with suspension. It really smooths the ride out. But if your body still aches with the new seatpost, you could resume your search for a full suspension bike. Seems more cost effective.

I'm your age, and sometimes I wonder when I need to retire my body from road & MTB and start riding recumbents :lol: . TBH, my recently purchased Electra Townie is a start .

A 29 er bike will work with your 700c rim motor.

29er not so strange and new now. So there won't be that limited a selection of bikes, or tires now. But used, lots more 26" bikes out there.

If you don't want full suspension, then there are still lots of "comfort bikes" or "city commuter" types to choose from in 700c rims. Often they do have a shock fork. I'm not sure if the electra townie comes in 700c, my wife has one in 26". But surely there are still similar pedal forward type cruisers in 29 or 700c.

Or of course, hard tail mtb's come in 29 too. Whatever you choose, a $150 bike will ride and last like a $150 bike. Worth it to look at bikes that have higher prices when new. A good alloy frame has a feel you just don't get from cheap alloy bikes. But a cheap all steel frame can still be a nice ride. It just tends to have cheap wheels and everything else on it. A good 26" steel frame with a 1 1/4 headset can receive a new fork that changes everything, improving the ride to an amazing degree.

You mentioned needing an open triangle. That makes some of the older, but goodie steel mtb's come to mind. Like the Trek 720, or a similar bike from specialized or giant. Only downside is no disk mounts usually. But you can upgrade forks, and get disk front, which is good enough. That can be done later, as funds allow.

Hard tail seems like a better choice for you. Your budget will go further, your search for triangle space will be way easier and you can get a better rack / rear panniers solution.

Wide tires at lower pressure will also help quite a bit on bumps, 2.35 or wider at 30psi will help soak up trail and road bumps.

The size frame that you need is a consideration for full suspension, since, for instance a Giant 29er with Maestro designed rear has a fairly large triangle area available and you might find one on Craigslist for a reasonable price. I have a Thudbuster on one bike and it softens the ride somewhat, but nothing like rear suspension.

Thanks for all the great replies and ideas - I really appreciate the input. To answer a few questions:

- I will hopefully be using the same motor I currently am - the MAC 10T that I got from Paul at EM3EV - I will be using it on the rear wheel.

- No matter what I end up doing, I would like front suspension on a hardtail. I will be using either Thudbuster or other type of seatpost suspension as well. This seems to make most sense since I have big triangle battery pack as well as the desire to carry stuff in panniers on rear rack.

So it seems like I have (3) options:

1) Buy new hybrid bike that has 700c tires and retrofit my system. This seems like it won't be too costly and would be the simplest mate to my current system. I was looking at a few bikes for this and here is what I found: Any opinions on these bikes?
- http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/windsor/rover2.htm#specs
- http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_555436_-1___204734
- http://www.rei.com/product/857582/novara-forza-bike-2015#tab-specs

2) Install my current motor on a 26" rim and convert an older steel mountain bike with front shocks to my ebike. This sounds good because I am familiar with "old" bike technology and so I would be in my comfort zone and I would be using a steel frame which would be better. It would involve cost and time of building a new wheel (I will be teaching myself) and finding the right donor bike (I live in the boonies, so not a ton of options). If I lived in a city, this option would probably save me money since there are lots of used bikes out there, but since that isn't the case, i am not sure this option would save money compared to option #1.

3) Buy a new 29er and retrofit my system to this. I wouldn't have to build a new wheel and it seems very similiar to option #1. I am not sure if the 29er type of bike is here to stay - will it be hard to find tires and other components in the future?

I realize that I don't know the answer to a few questions that would help the decision making process:

If I were to buy a new bike with Aluminum Frame do I need to worry a lot about dropout spacing? My current 10T motor has 7 speed cassette on it. When I installed on my current bike, I needed to open up the dropouts a bit. No problem with steel frame, but I am not sure how I would handle this issue with Aluminum (which it seems all new bikes are made out of). I would use a torque arm, but not sure how to know if spacing is going to be an issue on a new bike???

I am comfortable with V-brakes, and at the speeds I run (20-25mph), they do seem adequate, but I would have a lot more options of new bikes if I went to disc brakes. Can I convert my current wheel (EM3EV MAC 10T on 700c rim) to disc brakes at this point or do I need to buy a new hub and rebuild the wheel??? I just have no experience with disc brakes and how they work...

Which wheel would give me best choice of tires and suspension (now and in future) - 700c, 26", or 29er??

Thanks for all your help!

26 in is the most common for used bikes, bike parts tubes,tires, shocks ect.

markz said:

You 100% need disc brakes, 26" rims.

Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree. Rim brakes with 3' pads work 10 times better than my bike with front and rear 160mm disc brakes. I can stop my bike with rim brakes on a dime. The one with disc brakes won't hardly stop at all. Since I have regen on both bikes, slowing down is not a problem. It's from under 10mph to a full stop where the disc brakes just don't cut it. The rim brakes provide a 550mm disc for braking compared to the 160mm stock disc. And the big rim brake pads I use provide twice the surface area. Yeah, original rim brake pads were not near as good.
In any case, you don't need, and probably don't want small disc brakes. They suck.

Wow you talking KoolStops
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_570803_-1___204962

That one turns out to be 667mm squared of brake pad area. The technology has advanced over the 20 years.
All I know is 180mm or 203mm diameter discs up front and 160 or 180's in the rear seem to do fine. Isnt the spec the diameter of the rotor, what do their pads spec out at as far as area. The larger the diamter the rotor, the greater the leverage for breaking is, but I think a large 203mm rotor in the back will always lock up. Go 203 front, 180 rear.

To be quite frank and honest, I have always hated adjusting the old school brakes. Discs are so much easier for me to fix.

It would be cool to find someone that has both setup, caliper and discs.

It's been 4 years since I bought them, I don't recall which, but they are pretty much like these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hot-1-Pair-Bicycle-Cycling-Bike-V-Brake-Holder-Pads-Shoes-Blocks-Black-/271090168306
And V brakes, not the older caliper type which do suck.

The older brakes, you talking about the brakes where the brake cable came to a inverted "V" aka Centre Pull (Old style)
View attachment 2
View attachment 1
Or
Parallels - Direct Pull ("Newer" and better style....more leverage on the arms!)
View attachment 3
Or U brakes which you see more on road bikes I think

Nothing really wrong with any of those 700c bikes. But a steel frame would be stiffer, for longer. All are better than similar looking bikes at Walmart for sure. I'd tend to lean towards the nashbar, vs the bikes direct.

Save enough on a used steel mtb though, and you have the budget to simply buy a second 26" motor.

Make sure whatever you get, it has 1 1/8 headset, to be able to but a really nice fork on it someday, with disc brakes. Disk that won't stop you, must not be adjusted right. Even my cheapest no name piece of shit disc calipers stop me fine. But the right pads if you do have rim brakes is EVERYTHING.

Having make the mistake of using an antique as a donor bike, you are about to do it again by taking half-steps.
Ever see hard-tail enduro motorcycle with rim brakes?
Used quality full-suspension mountain bikes with space in the triangle are not that rare.
Early 2000's models from Trek, Giant, Kona and Rocky Mountain come to mind.
Here are a couple of threads with susggestions;
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32056&hilit=best+full+suspension+triangle+open
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28151&hilit=best+full+suspension+triangle+open
There are a couple more, even longer threads.
Used mountain bikes are a great value, Ones only several years old are considered obsolete by the hardcore MTB riders, but models way back to the late '90's have rear suspensions and hyd. brakes that work great on the road. My 2002 Rocky Mountain w a simple single link and a Fox Float R shock feels as good as my later multi-link GT Idrive w/ a RL shock. Both have around 4" of travel.
I have found that around 25 mph, a wider rim and tire adds noticeably more stability.
Spend a little time looking for the right donor, lace up a pair of Alex DM24 rims with your exisiting kit and you will be golden.

With V brakes, or direct pull if you prefer, I can stop so hard it will lock the wheel and throw me over the handlebars if I really hit them hard. The 160mm disc brakes i have won't even come close to doing that and they are adjusted so squeezing as hard as I can doesn't bottom out the levers. Rim brakes are just really big disc brakes. I'm sure bigger disc brakes would work better and they'd work a lot better if me and the bike didn't weigh 350lbs.

V brakes, a giant disc! I like my Kool Stop brakes FAR better than many disc systems I have tried. I'm sure there are fabulous disc brake systems. But not on the cheap. Again V brakes are pads on a very big disc!

Thanks for all the great replies and info.

Of the new bikes, I was leaning toward the Nashbar as well, but it is out of stock until 6/23, so no reason to make a quick decision.

And thanks to motomech for pointing me toward some dual suspension bikes that might hold my triangle battery. It is a really big battery though (takes up almost all of Em3EV's triangle bag - it is 50v and 24.8AH). The GT LTS looks like it would work best and I see you can find some good deals out there (just not near me at the moment). Of course, I imagine the dual suspension does add complexity...

So, still keeping all my options open and reading and learning. The problem is every time I head out on my current set-up, I just think how nice a better set up would be and I want it NOW, as in RIGHT NOW. I am usually good at being patient, but not for this it seems.

Looks to be some disagreement about disc vs V Brakes. I come at this from a lot of experience doing fully loaded touring (have done 26K miles of it over the years on the same Panasonic Touring Bike that is my current electric bike). I was always riding with a bike that weighed around 75-85 pounds (sometimes much more when needing to carry water through desert) and so riding a heavy electric bike feels very natural and stopping has never been a big issue (even going down the LONG hills out west), so it is hard for me to feel as though V-brakes just aren't very good since they have served me so well. I also like dogman's idea that I could always add disc to front (which is most important anyway).

Thanks again and I appreciate all the input!

I spent just about all day yesterday reading on Endless Sphere - reading a lot of about full suspension bikes and anything else I could find about what to look for in a bike...

I think I will forgo the full suspension and just go with a Trek 820 (new or used if I can find it). I want to have the ability to carry plenty on the rear rack and don't want the complexity of full suspension after reading more about it. the Trek 820 is steel frame and while I probably will replace the front shock at some point (and add disc brakes to the front if I feel like I need it), it seems like a good base to start from at this point.

I have read/seen a lot of posts about the Trek 820, but most of the posts are 2-4 years old - does this bike still seem like a good donor bike and is there anything on current model that is an issue?

Thanks!

Full suspension bikes that can fit your battery in the triangle is very hard to find. A front shock and rim brakes with a steel frame will work great. A trek, diamond back or any old named frame. I always look at the rear derailleur for the quality of the bike.

Older steel Trek 820's (had one and loved it) have 1" steerer tubes which would mean that you would have difficulty mating newer (1 1/8") steerer forks to it. Try to find one with the 1 1/8 steerer if possible.

Yup, my 830 (great bike also, but you probably won't look back from fs) had a 1" tube- no suspension.
I'm disappointed with my 160mm mech discs compared to the stopping power of vbrakes, there's a few plusses, but still no comparison in my mind.

OP, have you considered the mongoose genesis? You might even be able to use your 700c with the rear vbrake. I think teslanv did one with a full em3 bag too? See 'illegal in all 50 states' -oops he used a pannier.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66978
Still a great bike and value imo though.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Men-s-Genesis-V2100-Mountain-Bike-Blue/42732939

i would recommend watching on CL in your local to find a 29er or 700C that would allow you to reuse your current motor and wheel.

you might even find one where the wheel is damaged and they are selling it cheap so you could just swap out the bad wheel for your motor.

look in surrounding areas on CL too since driving is a non issue if you take the bike apart to haul it anyway.

I'm in withtheCL recommend. Far better to have a quality used bike than a turd from Walmart. They look good new, but there are good reasons shops don't want to work on them. Now before someone corrects me and claims shops are uppity...an independent shop here with no brand loyalties has the same policy. Nope to many bikes from Walmart. Some of them are seriously substandard. Scores here are using frames to build very fast bikes, but most are changing out all the gear. The most sensible ones anyway. Notice I didn't just come out and say sensible since I have little if any respect for the frames. And they look like little bikes stolen from someone little brother. Especially with a 220 old fart riding one.

After reading tesla's build I'd have to agree with you on the wm bike. You're basically buying a frame apparently. I really loved my simple rigid trek (830 was alot different geometry from my friends equal quality 820), and love the current fs more (cost alot more), but that's the extent of my direct experience. So OP, don't buy the cheapie on my say so lol.