New E-bike guy here, any suggestions.

Please forgive me for being a noob, I am brand new at this electric bike thing so I know absolutely nothing about electric bikes. I have not even rode one yet but I am going electric bike as my main transportation to and from work and most around town driving.

First off I am in the United States in the Ozarks in Bentonville Arkansas, home to Wal-Mart. Where is this site mostly based at? Is this a European site mostly?

I have had this Wal-Mart bought Murray bicycle for many years (about 10) so it is what I am using for my electric bike. I am sure there is better but it is what I have. I took the stock seat off of it and put on a wider softer Huffy seat so my butt does not go numb all the time. I am also looking for some BMX dirt bike handlebars so I am not leaning over so much. This is not my bike but basically what mine is.


The rear wheel kit I am using is a 48V 1000W 26 inch wheel with monitor. It is a hair under $250 and I ordered it yesterday morning and it should be here next Friday. Here it is....... forgive me if I am not allowed to post it but please let me know and I will erase it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Conversion-/371289491857?hash=item5672940991

The batteries I am going to order next week on payday will be these.....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-22AH-SLA-ZEUS-PC22-12-UPS-Battery-4-pack-for-APC-RBC11-/271931424106?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f50603d6a

or these.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mighty-Max-4-Pack-12V-22Ah-UPS-Battery-Replaces-20Ah-Ritar-RT12200-RT-12200-/131212512845?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8ce00e4d

Will they be ok for now and will they get me back and forth to work which is about 7 miles away by bike trail?

This is my entry level build.

Next I am getting a 3 wheel bicycle and putting a front wheel kit on it and a 80cc 2 stroke motor on it for carrying stuff from the store.

The build I am doing now, is it a decent quality part? Will it last?

What more should I know.

At work (I build Mart Carts) we use 12 volt 35 ha batteries. Would 35 amp batteries burn up this motor, can they be used? I can get them for about $45 each our cost.

What do I need to learn.

Right now I am into entry lever cheap but good quality stuff. In the future I may get the nice bike and nice motor and expensive batteries but I have to learn all that first.

Other than what I am doing know, where do I start?

Wow, I have been here only 10 minutes and I have already learned a lot from reading stickies.

I believe I will read some more.

Mostly US members here.

Two things you must learn to not refer to nor mention are;
Lead Acid Batteries.
And
two-stroke engines
SLA batt.s are boat anchors and not worth messing with.

Next I am getting a 3 wheel bicycle and putting a front wheel kit on it and a 80cc 2 stroke motor on it for carrying stuff from the store.

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Then why bother with an electric motor at all? Bad mix if you ask me

Good choice of motor kit. Battery choice sucks big time. Lead is just a lot of dead weight. You're talking 52lbs of battery that won't give you more range than 7lbs of lithium. The lead will get you to work and back though, although you should charge them immediately when you get to work and when you get home to keep them from sulfating. Things you need right now are a spoke wrench and mm hex wrench set. Find some 5" riser handlebars to replace those straight ones. I wouldn't waste my money on lead batteries, but if you must, get some smaller ones like 7-12ah. Enough for one way to work or home where you will need to charge them immediately anyway. Something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-4pc-12V-8Ah-SLA-Battery-WB1280F2-For-UB1280-WKA12-8F-PS1280-FREE-USA-SHIP-/161766991183
Save your money until you can buy a decent 10ah lithium pack. Personally, I'd just start with 10ah of 12s rc lipo for ~$160.

bobthemotorcycle said:

Next I am getting a 3 wheel bicycle and putting a front wheel kit on it and a 80cc 2 stroke motor on it for carrying stuff from the store.

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See this:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67833
for a better idea.

Or look up BlueStreak; he's posted his trikes (some pics in my thread above), or DDK's "follies" thread.

Actually, maybe you should do the reverse. A trike can carry a lead pig of a battery fine. Big enough in AH, lead can be fine, like in those electric grocery carts, or golf carts. But you can't carry 50pounds of lead on a regular bike. You could carry it in a bob trailer.

So think lead battery and front motor on the trike, and put the gasser on the bicycle. Too bad you already bought the motor kit.

Do the lead thing, only if you are getting those things from work for free.

ASAP. Get a decent size (48v 20ah) lithium battery. It could be just as cheap as 35 ah lead anyway. BEST thing you can do, is don't buy anything more till you can get that lithium battery.

If you do need to go with lead for now, get 9 ah sla cells, but ride slow and try not to go more than about 6 miles per charge. That way you can at least carry the damn thing on a bike.

Lead is Dead.
That first battery you listed could technically run that motor, but badly, and cost more over the life of the battery.
Here's the Data sheet on that boat anchor. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=tZKpEDdy-0WSkXaiwo3bPQ&bvm=bv.98717601,d.cWw
Translation of all that data: It sucks harder than a nympho on MDMA.

A fair quality Lithium battery will cost a little more up front but last 4 to 10 times as long, weigh less than 1/4 of the weight, and should give twice the actual range for the stated capacity (Due to SLA suffering from Peukert's law).

This is what you need as a direct replacement for a 48 volt pack of the first battery. http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-2/lifepo4-lithium-ion-phosphate/Detail I'm betting that it's probably a bigger battery than you actually need, though.

wesnewell said:

Save your money until you can buy a decent 10ah lithium pack. Personally, I'd just start with 10ah of 12s rc lipo for ~$160.

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I do not yet understand how the battery thing goes.

My motor is a 48 volt 1000w motor. 1000w divided by 48V is basically 21 amps. Should I not run a 21 amp battery or something close to it?

Like I stated above, I am in the Ozarks and I have lots of hills to climb and work is 7 miles away.

I need to get to work and home on one charge as I do not think my boss will let me park inside.

Why only 10 amps?

Will the controller that comes with my kit hook up to lithium batteries?

Is the lead batteries main draw back the weight as I have no problem with 50 pounds if it is strapped down really well.

So I am guessing that lithium is the standard.

What is a great lithium battery for lots of power and long ranges and at a good price?

Or you could buy 2 of these for 10ah of 12s that weighs just over 5lbs for ~$150 and be more than enough for your round trip to work and back, about 20 miles at 20 mph.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=64439
You would need a charging system if you don't already have an rc charger. Best option for that imo would be a 12s bms and charger.
https://bmsbattery.com/bmspcm/330-smart-bms-513-cells-in-series-bms-pcm.html#/discharge_current-20_40a
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/25-alloy-shell-240w-lifepo4-li-ion-lead-acid-battery-ebike-charger-ecitypower-charger.html

It's 10 amp hours (ah) not 10 amps. The controller doesn't know what kind of battery is hooked to it. It just wants power. Leads main drawbacks are many, including size, weight, useful energy, and longevity.

wesnewell said:

It's 10 amp hours (ah) not 10 amps. The controller doesn't know what kind of battery is hooked to it. It just wants power. Leads main drawbacks are many, including size, weight, useful energy, and longevity.

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So how many amps would a 10 ah battery be?

So the amp is the power of my battery but the amp hour is how long it will go at a specific load and speed?

I have been searching but have not found the battery section in the FAQ, where is it please?

Rated discharge rates are found by multiplying the ah rating times the C rating, so a 10ah 10C battery pack is rated for 100A. The controller in your kit has a max amp draw of 26A. If you use a bms, it will also have a max amp draw limit. It should never be less than the max draw of the controller. I'm sure this info is here in lots of places, but I don't know where. Maybe the wiki.
http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Main_Page

bobthemotorcycle said:

So how many amps would a 10 ah battery be?

So the amp is the power of my battery but the amp hour is how long it will go at a specific load and speed?

I have been searching but have not found the battery section in the FAQ, where is it please?

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That can get confusing if you're not used to it.
An amp hour (AH) is the batter's capacity in amps. 1AH is literately 1 amp for 1 hour. So a 10 amp hour battery can supply 10 amps for 1 hour. (Or 1 amp for 10 hours.)
Telling you the amp hours is a way to describe partially how much power is in the battery

Amperage (A) the amount of current flowing at any given point in time.

Voltage (V) is the amount of pressure pushing those amps along.

2 other terms you may need:

Watts (W). the amount of work done. 750 watts = 1 horsepower. It isn't just an electrical term, this applies to mechanical work too. But for electricity, this is a combination of both voltage and amperage working together. Voltage X Amperage = Wattage.

Watt hours (WH). 1Wh is 1 watt for 1 hour, similar to Amp hours, only this actually tells you the true capacity of a battery.

A battery is a lot like a water barrel. Voltage would be how tall the barrel is. Amp hours are how wide the barrel is. And Voltage times AmpHours gives Watt hours, which is the total capacity of the barrel. a 48 volt high, 20AH wide barrel holds 960 watt hours.

For amps, imagine a spigot on the bottom of the barrel. If you open it up to 1 amp, the 20Amp hour battery would pour power through that for 20 hours before it drained. But if you opened it up to 20 amps, the battery would drain in 1 hour.


There is still 1 more term you need to know for a battery. The maximum discharge rate. That's often given in 2 forms: Maximum contentious, and Maximum burst. Maximum contentious is how many amps can safely exit the battery. The is like the maximum flow of the spigot in the analogy above. It can handle this amount without trouble until the battery is dry. Maximum burst is how many amps the battery can handle for a very short time. usually 30 seconds. At this rate the battery will be damaged if you go over that amount, or go too long at this amount. In most cases it's best to totally ignore the Max Burst, and use the Max continuous as your absolute Max when matching a battery to an ebike.

Maximum continuous is rated in C (for capacity). 1C means 1 times the battery's capacity in amp hours, but the value is given in just amps ( yeah, slightly confusing, I know). A 48 volt, 20 AH battery rated for 2C can give a Maximum continuous output of 40 amps.

A battery is a lot like a water barrel. Voltage would be how tall the barrel is. Amp hours are how wide the barrel is. And Voltage times AmpHours gives Watt hours, which is the total capacity of the barrel. a 48 volt high, 20AH wide barrel holds 960 watt hours.

For amps, imagine a spigot on the bottom of the barrel. If you open it up to 1 amp, the 20Amp hour battery would pour power through that for 20 hours before it drained. But if you opened it up to 20 amps, the battery would drain in 1 hour.

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Best way ever heard it put. 8)

Thank you for all the answers. I have learned a lot.

For the time being I am going to use 4 12v 22ah or 35ah lead acid batteries only because I can afford them and I understand them.

In the next few months to come I will be buying some lithium batteries but not until I can study the sport more and find places to get good buys at. I am not buying a bunch of expensive batteries to only find out that I spent 600 buck and for 70 more I could have had the best ever made. I can get by with lead acid for the next year until next summer when I will have more knowledge and hopefully money. If anybody knows where to get some 48 volt 25 ah lithium batteries for a great price please let me know but it is going to take some time before I can save up that kind of money.

I will post pictures as I build my bike next week.

Better get a trailer real soon then, for that much lead.

Or the trike.

It would be a poor choice, to pay full nickel for 35 ah lead, even for the trike. But if you can snag them free or close to it at work, understandable.

http://lunacycle.com/48v-samsung-18650-battery-pack-10ah/

That lithium battery would have just as much range as a 48v 20 ah lead, because lead is best used only to 50% discharge. And last 2-4 years, vs one year for lead. 15 miles range full speed, or 30 going slower. You can carry this on any bike, 6 pounds!

Bikes are fast, and harder on lead than stuff like grocery carts.

I use this battery: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/free-DHL-EMS-shipping-1pcs-lot-48V-20AH-Lithium-Ion-Battery-for-Electric-Bike-with/1449512516.html and I can go 26 miles on a charge on a normal mountain bike with similar 1000w kit. You can fit it in a triangle bag on the frame, and It has even gone down 10 bucks since I bought mine.

Don't waste your money on SLA, these guys know of what they speak.

Different supplier, but very similar to the battery I just bought last week. 48v 20 ah for $398 including shipping. 15 pounds.

So yeah, spending anything like $300 on new lead that weighs 25 pounds per cell is just a bad choice. 100 pounds to carry 4 huge lead cells with the same usable capacity.

$100 more to carry 85 pounds less weight on a bicycle is worth every penny. Only a trailer or a special cargo bike can pack 100 pounds and ride ok.

dogman dan said:

Different supplier, but very similar to the battery I just bought last week. 48v 20 ah for $398 including shipping. 15 pounds.

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Where did you get yours at? I am looking for goo deals and the deal above is no longer available.

bobthemotorcycle said:

dogman dan said:

Different supplier, but very similar to the battery I just bought last week. 48v 20 ah for $398 including shipping. 15 pounds.

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Where did you get yours at? I am looking for goo deals and the deal above is no longer available.

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I just checked, and strider's ink for a Lithium Ion 48V 20AH 1000W for less that $400 and free shipping is still good:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/free-DHL-EMS-shipping-1pcs-lot-48V-20AH-Lithium-Ion-Battery-for-Electric-Bike-with/1449512516.html

And it doesn't weigh anywhere NEAR 50+ pounds!

Ty

Yup link still works, and the battery only weighs 12 lbs or so. I need to weigh it actually, but that's what the ad says and it sounds about right. I carry it up to my desk to charge at work every day I ride.

Aliexpress doesn't take paypal so it can be a little scary at first, but I have had no issues with 5 or 6 purchases from aliexpress, and have ordered 2 of these exact batteries from this seller, so I have no qualms recommending the site or seller.

Dive in and ride, the summer is short!

bobthemotorcycle said:

dogman dan said:

Different supplier, but very similar to the battery I just bought last week. 48v 20 ah for $398 including shipping. 15 pounds.

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Where did you get yours at? I am looking for goo deals and the deal above is no longer available.

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His review is here.