WE BL36 Resurrection

Hello All,

I have been to this site years ago but due to SLA battery weight and hassle I shelved my Schwinn New style Stingray with a Wilderness Energy front wheel kit for an old 10 speed. I do hope some people here are adept with this kit it was the Ebay kit of the day, I believe in the day Dogman helped me and did a review on a Aotema brushless motor from hightecbikes dot com

What I know is that the kit is 36V, 600Watt Aotema brushless motor, 24" wheel, I am running the original controller (Replaced once by ebikes.ca) w/ the thumb throttle. I have only used 3 10ah or 12ah SLA's in series and when fresh I managed a 20 mile average range some inclines but relatively flat (Cleveland Ohio) and I do still have the same terrain. I busted my leg and need to fire up the e-bike but I can't balance the SLA's weight (6 SLA's 2x36v), it was one of the reasons I shelved it in the first place.

So to the question: I want to buy a LifePo4 or Nicad battery, I want to keep it to 400$ or less and after reading this forum for days want to stay away from China and focus on the USA for this purchase as it is a one time only purchase and I want the option of return with less hassle.

My needs are simple I am not a speed freak and when my leg gets better will assist for distance as I have in the past. I would like 20 miles (10 + 10) in a store run,there is only 3 inclines each way @ 10 to 20 degrees a 1/4 mile or less.

Below is what I feel should do it but I don't know much, one link is in china I got the website from a post here(www.lifepo4.in) and would entertain any experiences with them, their website looks way exaggerated!!!
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http://www.lifepo4.in/36V%2014AH%20Ebike%20Battery%2036V%208Fun%20bafang%20bbs02b%20battery%20hailong%20down%20tube%20battery.html

https://california-ebike.com/shop/36-v-14ah-hailong-3-pack-with-premium-cells/

https://california-ebike.com/shop/36-volt-15ah-hailong-3-pack-with-high-capacity-generic-cells/

https://www.greenbikekit.com/36v-145ah-ebike-downtube-batteries.html

Nice links. I'm still stuck on sla's. Probably forever.

If you do a search on the first company here on ES, you'll find info about it that's not favorable. They're also in india, so they're not on-continent for you.

The other two have good and bad info about them here, like most.

GBK's site doesn't actually say where they are located, or have any contact info other than a form to fill out, so most likely they are a drop-shipper, meaning they don't stock anything and order stuff from china when you order it from them. So they may have no place to ship back to on-continent for you. I don't remember what their service is reported to be like but you can search the forums for posts about them.

CE is in California, though whether they stock anything or not I don't know--at least you have a place to call as they give complete contact info, not just a form. I don't remember what their service is reported to be like but you can search the forums for posts about them.

There's also Grin Tech http://ebikes.ca as a good place, in Canada so on-continent and they have real contact info and actually stock products at their shop, and they have good service (although sometimes delayed in answering).

Luna probably actually stocks their stuff and is in California, and has real contact info, though there's good and bad about their service, sometimes real good and sometimes real bad. Unfortunately some of the bad stuff has been deleted from ES for reasons I don't know, and some of it has been removed by the posters themselves so they could get service from Luna, so you can't see all the problems that have happened.

There's probably other places too, like Radrover/radbikes, who stock batteries and mounts for their bikes but they'll work on yours too, if you can get a 36v from them.


Depending on the speed you go, and any winds, you'll probably use up about 1/2Ah for each mile, since you won't be pedalling right now. Might be less, but plan for that. So you probably need around 10Ah minimum to get 20miles, assuming no detours or headwinds.

Note that a good battery that's reliable is not going to be the cheapest. The cheapest stuff may or may not be reliable, and may or may not even be new or good cells (some of the really cheap stuff appears to be recycled garbage cells, but if you buy on-continent from places with stock in-hand, you're less likely to run into that vs buying direct from China).

Clean Republic(Washington state) has some good 36, 24, 12 volt options and you can talk to them on the phone, they make their batteries in house and service is very good. I've used 5 of their batteries and they are still holding up.
https://www.electric-bike-kit.com/batteries.aspx


I did order a battery from China trying to save some bucks and get more capacity. I'm sure there are good shops there and bad, just like here, but sadly after a year the one I got can't handle the discharge so I think that wasn't a good choice.

Good luck
Tom

More than you want to pay, and know that I worked for them for almost 4 years.

But this is one option, in the US.

https://www.ebikekit.com/collections/batteries/products/lithium-36v-10ah-electric-bike-battery

OK guys I have made a decision thank you for the avenues,,, I spent a LOT of time cyphering... I've reconsidered my goal after waiting 6 years I want flexibility so instead of getting a 10ah pack now and one next year to extend my ride, I want a larger battery, if I need to go to the clinic 12 miles each way screw the bus!!! I also figure that if I don't fully charge I will extend the life of the Battery as opposed to constantly maxing out and draining the smaller Battery...

I really like the size as well as the price of
24.5ah Shark
is the price to good to be true??? I plan to get the charger upgrade for efficiency as well as auto charging to 80 to 90% state...

I read a Lot of reviews on Lunacycle and there seems to be more wheel fails and CS problems than battery problems,,, if I read this right there was some squeaky wheels that got oiled by Luna to better their rep???
I plan to get this ASAP,,, if you think I should not get this please tell me why...

Thanks again !!!

Regarding the pack itself, the Shark style is basically a common one; the packs inside them vary in type and quality; I couldn't say if that one is great or not, but it would probably do what you're after.


It's hard to say about the problems, because various posters of them retracted or deleted their posts about it, so it's hard to search and find them here on ES (and presumably elsewhere).

Why, we can't know for certain, but it's possible that they were required to do so in order to get service (other vendors have done this over the years).


That said, at least they are on-continent so it is at least *possible* to do a return or get warranty service via ground shipping or personally taking it there if you're close enough, unlike with off-continent stuff (whcih would require air shipping you can't do with a defective battery).

the pack I wanted is gone now,,, Fishy?

Had some E-mails with Luna I found them to be Helpful. The 24.5 ah "JUMBO" pack I wanted is being discontinued, they claim to be having a hard time opening them for service, they open like a cellphone and prying can crack the case.

I decided to get the 17.5 Shark pack it is claimed to be a sturdier case that opens with screws, but it cost about as much as the 24.5ah.

I can't wait now if I hadn't broke my leg I would probably never ride the bike again after sitting in the house for 2 months this is going to be fun! I may even get happy enough to post a picture.

The Shark/etc do open with screws, makes it easy to repair, just keep in mind it also means it's not actually secured to your bike. Not that it really matters cuz they'd probably just steal the bike, but if for some reason they wanted to, then they coudl unscrew the case halves and take it off the locking rail mounted on the bike, like I did for a repair for someone here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84304
when they forgot to leave me the key to take it off.

In any case, 10 ah is big enough for 20 amps controllers, but you should get much better lifespan and performance ( less v sag under load) from a pack as large as 15 ah.

So good idea to go 15 ah or bigger wherever you get it.

amberwolf said:

The Shark/etc do open with screws, makes it easy to repair, just keep in mind it also means it's not actually secured to your bike. Not that it really matters cuz they'd probably just steal the bike, but if for some reason they wanted to, then they coudl unscrew the case halves and take it off the locking rail mounted on the bike, like I did for a repair for someone here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84304
when they forgot to leave me the key to take it off.

Click to expand...

I always wondered how things made it into production. I will probably just drill out the heads of the screws for now.

Thank you for your help.

dogman dan said:

In any case, 10 ah is big enough for 20 amps controllers, but you should get much better lifespan and performance ( less v sag under load) from a pack as large as 15 ah.

So good idea to go 15 ah or bigger wherever you get it.

Click to expand...

Yes, I researched this, I even read about people getting 2 15 to 20AH just to ride them half out.

I considered your place and really would of preferred buying from your recommendation here in the US but your larger Battery was pvc and I was enamoured by freeing up the rear rack. The mounting location was a key factor for me for balance as well as I'm a little wobbly in my old age.

Thanks for the help.

As mentioned, always better to get more juice then you require.

Its always a pain when ya run out of juice and you actually have to pedal home :lol: or if your lucky and have a recharger with you, then its a pain putting up with them Starbuckers.

A lot of times I just like to roam around, I will start off thinking a quick run to Walmart but its nice out and I end up 30km away on a cruise.

Hello everyone,

So far so good, Luna shipped in 2 business days, good tracking via Fedex and should be here in Ohio on Monday "tomorrow" with a required signature...

I have a question, My bike has 12v accessories, lights etc. I used to have a single SLA powering it. I want to know if there is any reason I should not use something like
This Converter tapped into the main?

The Shark pack has a 5v dc USB out and I guess I could use it and get USB accessories and a USB hub, but I like 12v, I think you can see it better at night. If you think carrying a separate 12v SLA like we put in home alarm systems small and efficient is a better idea let me know that as well.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Skink said:

I have a question, My bike has 12v accessories, lights etc. I used to have a single SLA powering it. I want to know if there is any reason I should not use something like
This Converter tapped into the main?

Click to expand...

Something like that should work; I don't know that specific one.

I use a wall-wart (power supply that plugs into the wall). Many "wallwarts" will run off DC, above about 50v or so, if they say on them "100-130VAC" or "100-240VAC", etc. for the input side. They might only be able to supply about half the wattage they're rated for, due partly to the lower input voltage, and partly to only using half the rectifier, depending on how the manufacturer did their rating tests, but they'll still work. You just hook up the two wall prongs to the battery + and -, and the output + and - to the lights.

There's a lot of threads/posts over the years about wallwart usage, DC-DC converters, etc., if you want to poke around for what specific models people have used.

The Shark pack has a 5v dc USB out and I guess I could use it and get USB accessories and a USB hub,

Click to expand...

Assuming it actually works--I've run into several packs (while helping a couple of locals) that either don't actually have the little board in there for that, or it doesn't work. ONly one of the packs I've seen actually had a working USB port. I doubt the actual ratio of bad ones is really that high; I think teh one person with most of those bad ones was just unlucky. :/

but I like 12v, I think you can see it better at night.

Click to expand...

That depends on exactly what lights you use, cuz you can get big bright lights that run on 5v, and small dim ones that run on 12v.

If you think carrying a separate 12v SLA like we put in home alarm systems small and efficient is a better idea let me know that as well.

Click to expand...

Depends on your traction pack size and the lights you have and their power usage, and the size teh converter has to be to run them vs the size of a separate battery to run them the same length of time.

SLA, not really efficient, but a lithium pack could be (much less weight and smaller for the same power and capacity).

If it werent' for my car headlights on my bikes, I'd just run a little 15v wallwart (since tha'ts closer to automotive "12v" and runs the lights I use more like they should be). I did use one on CrazyBIke2 for everything but the headlight and the car horns, as those would cause it to shutdown, so I had a separate 4s lighting pack I charged to 16v for those. I"m using the same type of pack for all the ligths on SB Cruiser right now, though I'd like to switch to a DC-DC converter if I run across one that can run the car headlight, etc.

If I had all-LED lighting, I'd just use a DC-DC (or wallwart).

Well I got the battery but haven't installed it yet, I am buying new accessories , wire loom and the like. I have another question for the Pro's - Years back I spun-out the wheel and destroyed the 3 pole rubber molded trailer plug disconnect at the wheel, I jury rigged the plug back together and now is the time to fix it proper. I can just get a new trailer disconnect but I like These in cars, they are always clean and dry, so what do you think for this application? they are rated at 20 amps, will my wheel ever exceed that? I hope they are good because it is on it's way :0



Amberwolf; this pack has a new design " Perhaps someone was listening to you" There are 4 exposed screws and 4 screws concealed on the ends in between the cradle and the pack, the name on the pack is "Designed by SHANSHAN" , and there is no USB at all. Thanks for your caution it made me slow my roll so to speak _ _ _

I did purchase the 36v to 12v converter in my post up top, and bought all 12v led lights and a 12v motorcycle horn.

Skink said:

Years back I spun-out the wheel and destroyed the 3 pole rubber molded trailer plug disconnect at the wheel, I jury rigged the plug back together and now is the time to fix it proper. I can just get a new trailer disconnect but I like These in cars, they are always clean and dry, so what do you think for this application? they are rated at 20 amps, will my wheel ever exceed that? I hope they are good because it is on it's way :0

Click to expand...

Never mind I did a search and see many of people not only use the Delphi weather tight connectors,,, They are highly recommended here... My concern was the metal causing unseen corrosion , and not handling the amperage at the wheel....

Hello again: I have another ?... I am going to put a fuse before the DC to DC converter. I pulled this breaker from a high pressure sodium light transformer before I scraped it. On the breaker it is rated for 125/250 V AC and 32V VDC. My question is do you guys think I can us it before my converter... I realize my battery has a potential of 42V but I don't know the real tolerance of this breaker,,, common sense tells me it won't do ,,, but frugality tells me to try it,,, what do you say??? If No,,, maybe a cheap recommendation...

http://www.kuoyuh.com.tw/en/88-Series.html

Circuit Breaker Rating: 3~20A USD0.25~USD75
Circuit Breaker Input Power: 125/250Vac 32Vdc(UL)
Circuit Breaker Reset Time: Within 60 sec
Circuit Breaker Calibration: Overload 200%: 6~25sec

Well, first, a breaker is not a fuse. They serve somewhat different needs, and a fuse can blow a lot faster than a breaker, if you pick the right one, potentially saving some damage to stuff behind the fuse in the circuit (the reason for using one).

However, a breaker is more practical for situations where an overload is expected to occur occasionally, and you need to be able to reset it rather than replacing fuses when it happens. Or when you also need a switch, as a breaker can be used as a switch, too (though an actual switch may be available with much longer lifespan in number of switching cycles, and could be smaller than a breaker).


The breaker specs you're listing mean it could take 25 seconds of overload before it pops. Can your wiring, electronics, BMS, battery, etc, all take that 25 seconds of 20A+ (whatever the short circuit current might end up being) before the breaker pops, without damage or fire? If not, that breaker won't protect your stuff.

You have to look at your power source, and see what it can safely output max, and then your wiring to see what it can safely carry max, and your load to see what it can safely sink max, and size your fuse or breaker so that none of those would be exceeded for longer than they can handle that max before the fuse or breaker does it's job. But it also has to be rated high enough that just a little spike won't pop it, if you expect there will be some (like with motors on startup).


Also, the voltage ratings mean that if you have a higher voltage on there, it might nto be able to break the arc across the contacts under loaded conditions, in which case there is essentially an arc welder running inside the breaker, which could set fire to it and whatever it's encased in or mounted on. (and it also isn't going to be able to break the circuit, so whatever went wrong to set it off in the first place will *also* be still going wrong).


The voltage also does have to be rated for the right type, too, AC or DC; this one does both but the DC votlage isn't high enough to *guarantee* breaking the connection under load. It might...but it might not.

Thank you for the education,,, I was only thinking of protecting my new 36 volt luna pack from a short as I don't think I have a large enough load to worry about, led lights all toll with everything lit horn and all 2 - 2.5 amps max. I put in a 5 amp GM type fuse after the 10 amp max output 36v DC to 12v DC converter to protect it from a short. I was going to put a 36v 10amp fuse before the converter to protect my Shark, again thinking short protection but found the breaker and thought to use it "keep in mind I only have online sources to get stuff" buying and waiting is becoming a pia.

Back to the breaker, will it protect me from a short? blow/trip like a breaker in a house without the 25 second delay? My biggest concern is screwing my new 400.$+ pack from a dumb short which I've been known to do LoLzzzz...

by the way does anyone know the volt rating on a normal GM blade type car fuse???

Skink said:

by the way does anyone know the volt rating on a normal GM blade type car fuse???

Click to expand...

From my research voltage is not as important as amperage and GM blade fuses are rated 32VDC and the same fuse can be rated 36vdc and 48vdc in China,,, go figure,,, for a while I actually thought I needed to get a fuse from China...

Answer from Electricscooterparts.com
Electric scooter, bike, and go kart fuses should always be replaced with the same Amp rating of fuse. The Voltage rating is not quite as important though. Some manufacturers will use 32V fuses, while others will use 125V or 250V fuses. 32V and 125V fuses can be replaced with 250V fuses and they are interchangeable. 32V fuses are used on electric scooters, bikes, and go karts with 24 Volt, 36 Volt, 48 Volt, and 60 Volt battery packs.

The voltage rating is *very* important if you want to guarantee the fuse will break the connection under load.

As long as the fuse (or breaker) is designed for a *higher* voltage than the application needs, it'll break under load, but if it's designed for a lower voltage, it may not break under load.

If it's not designed for a high enough voltage, then current can continue to arc across the internal contacts of the fuse, even after the wire inside has melted and "broken" the connection. This arc (basically the same as a welding arc) can then cause a fire, by heating the fuse so hot that the plastic holder melts and ignites.

This sort of thing doesnt' happen all that often, but it does happen sometimes, when the wrong voltage fuse (or breaker) is used.

If the load isn't high enough to draw enough current to continue arcing across the gap, then the fuse blowing will break the circuit, and everything will be fine. But if it's a high enough load (like a short circuit across a battery, for instance) it could keep arcing, if the gap isn't big enough (designed for high enough voltage).