1000W Geared hubmotor from China?

[Quajochem]

Hi all,
For my hobbyproject I ordered this motor from Alibaba:

http://ebikebattery.en.alibaba.com/product/472543561-210207474/2011_new_porpular_product_48V_Brushless_1000W_hb_Motor.html
1.Voltage: 48V
2.Power: 1000W
3.RPM: 520 (seems like a really fast wind to me..possibly too fast?)

The high speed model, I am planning to use it on a 48V 16Ah system..

It hasn't arrived yet, but they did send me a few photos of the inside because I asked them to and I thought I'd share them with you guys:



Is this a reasonable quality motor?
Comparable to a MAC?
Is it really 1000W?
How about the gears? I never saw that colour before..

cheerz
Jochem

[Spicerack]

That is identical to my Mac. Same number of poles, same grey gears etc. How much?

[kfong]

Looks like a BMC/Mac clone to me.

[Quajochem]

The costs for bare motor:
Unit Price
1 Motor $179.00
Shipping cost $69.00
Total
$248.0

Assemby with 26" rim and 13G spokes:
$179.00
1pc Rim $9.80
1pc Spoke $7.80
assemble cost $7.80
Shipping cost $109.00
Total
$313.40

This is shipping to Europe, the Netherlands

what did you pay for the MAC?

[amberwolf]

I think that's the same as this motor:
http://emissions-free.com/catalog/i24.html
but not having one, I'm not totally sure.
http://emissions-free.com/catalog/i1.html

[Spicerack]

I realy can't remember what I paid, but probably about the same. I hope you're getting the right contoller as well- the timing on these motors is a bit different to most so normal infineons may run them pretty rough- plenty of threads around ES about it.

That's why I would buy through Cellman- he has all the matched components, offers after sales warranty/advice etc and I trust him.

[neptronix]

That's a MAC motor.
520RPM in 48v is close to what the the 400rpm "6 turn" wind would be.
Those pictures are stolen from bmsbattery. That's a bad sign.

If you look through their motors, they also have pictures of the old MAC for sale.

http://ebikebattery.en.alibaba.com/product/434240935-210207474/2011_High_Quality_And_Power_Brushless_DC_Motor.html

They also list a soft start up, HA. MAC/BMC motors are far from being able to produce anything remotely close to a soft start, lol.

That's a very low price, but i would be a little suspicious about that seller. I won't buy anything off alibaba. Everyone is a A&V checked gold rated seller on there.. just sayin. There are also probably a thousand different listings for this same motor on alibaba, under various names.. under various vendors.. just look around and you'll find that to be true.

If you chose to be the guinea pig on this one, let us know how it goes.

[Quajochem]

I realy can't remember what I paid, but probably about the same. I hope you're getting the right contoller as well- the timing on these motors is a bit different to most so normal infineons may run them pretty rough- plenty of threads around ES about it.

That's why I would buy through Cellman- he has all the matched components, offers after sales warranty/advice etc and I trust him.

I bought a 9FET controller from Lyen with 3-speed switch, USB connector and a CA the whole nine yards...
I opened it up btw and fitted a DC converter inside, yes there was enough room left in the controller box
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41 ... erter.gif/
so now it has a 12V output, because I want to fit my bike with 12V LED lighting:

[Spicerack]

Umm, yeah... but does your Lyen controller run the MAC style motor- that was the point as they have different timing to C'lytes etc. Nice to know what you've done with yours tho...

[Quajochem]

According to Lyen it should run just fine....

I also ordered a lot of wire, connectors and heat shrink tubes from hobbyking.. Christmas is over but my presents keep coming in

[neptronix]

According to Lyen it should run just fine....

I also ordered a lot of wire, connectors and heat shrink tubes from hobbyking.. Christmas is over but my presents keep coming in

If you have problems with it, consider getting a cell_man controller.

I've heard very mixed results with lyen controllers. From totally unusable, to no complaints.. more so the former.

[Quajochem]

They pretty much sent me some old junk motor with flat covers, not the new model
And I forgot to ask for disk brak mount, so I might aswell just throw it in the trash now
I know I won't buy from them again!!



Look at those really thin wires:

No spring for wire protection either:


Anyone know if I could order a better motor with disc brake mount and swap the inside and covers so I can keep this laced rim, wich is about the only good thing about this motor?

[Quajochem]

It's a 6T, possibly an overkill with a heavy non aerodynamic bike like mine:




520RPM on 48V = 64km/h / 40mph I'll never reach that speed with all this weight even with 30-40A input. I weigh 75kg so maybe I am lucky, but since it's also a cargo bike, I might have miscalculated..

What do you guys think? (and don't bring up the front vs rear-hub discussion again please )

This will be a motor for testing purposes only I suppose, but not for very long because they sent me one with a 2 piece clutch and white gears, the one on the photos they sent has grey gears...
And if you look at the windings you see they are sloppy / not concistent..
Oh well.





Overall it's not THAT bad, it's just an old model, the spokes are good quality 12G stainless, and there is next to no whobble, the bearings have a bit too much drag I think but that is also typical for old style MAC motors.

Wich supplier is best for ordering a new one possibly 8T, black, disk brake with new clutch and grey or better gears. It's a FRONT motor, I WANT a front motor.
Or could I just swap the insides out of a rear motor?
And; is 6T an overkill? How many RPM would 8T reach at 48V say 30A ?

Cell-man?

[o00scorpion00o]

Yes cell man without doubt!

He might be able to send you a new cover with the mount for disk brake, and he can send you gears and clutch.

But use it as it is until it dies, but no harm in having new parts, e-mail him and he will advise you best!

[o00scorpion00o]

Actually that motor looks slightly different from mine. Cell man will tell you what parts are compatible.

it's a real shame other Chinese suppliers are not as reliable as him!!!

[Quajochem]

Ok thanks for saving my day

I'll contact cell-man, ...

do you happend to know how a 6T mac performs? It needs alot of current for some good torque I read somehwere. Would I reach 50km/h / 31mph without pedaling on the flat? And with 8T?
And is it really of that much use to have such fast winding if you mostly want to cruise at max 50-55km/h?

[o00scorpion00o]

Mine is the 8T 320 rpm, and it's a rocket, plenty of torque, and climbs hills like they are flats. on 50 volts it will do 31 mph max with 120% speed setting in the controller.

If you are using a cargo bike then the 6T was a wise choice with more torque, you will not be going that fast on a cargo bike so you won't heat things up as much.

I think on a cargo bike with a geared hub you would be advised to reduce power when pulling heavy loads to minimise heat build up.

It's a shame motors don't come with a temp sensor and some kind of display so you can get to know the limits of the motor before it cooks.

But it's a shame you didn't contact cell-man first, he is well known and respected here on E.S and sells good quality kits.

I would also order the newer EB3xx controller from him, it has a softer start that's easier on the gears and clutch.

I wouldn't run more than about 2kw through the mac motor and even at that it's got a lot of power!

My advice get 2 spare clutches from cell-man, China is a long way away and it's a very big pain in the ass waiting for parts if you need them and it's a simple job to replace the clutch if it fails, there is a newer clutch but I don't know if cell-man can get them yet? they are supposed to be a lot tougher.

[Quajochem]

Mine is the 8T 320 rpm, and it's a rocket, plenty of torque, and climbs hills like they are flats. on 50 volts it will do 31 mph max with 120% speed setting in the controller.

If you are using a cargo bike then the 6T was a wise choice with more torque, you will not be going that fast on a cargo bike so you won't heat things up as much.

I wouldn't run more than about 2kw through the mac motor and even at that it's got a lot of power!

I thought the less windings, the more efficient at higher RPM, so LESS heat at higher speeds than a 8T, but also less torque all around ! (unless you start to over-amp it)
I want to ride this bike nice and fast, (for me thats 50-55 km/h 30-33mph), but it also has to have enough punch in the city area with lots of stops and goes, but with 6T instead of 8T it will heat up and not be as efficient at anything below 20mph.
If the RPM is rated 520 on 48-50V with no load, which would be 40mph in theory on the road and I don't wanna go that fast, than it will be an 'overdrive' setting, and maybe that's not the most efficient because this 6T motor is designed to deliver the most power at speeds above 35mph, or not?
I think this motor really comes to life on a really light aerodynamic bike, because it's more of a high speed machine, less of a torque machine.. and if you want it to deliver the torque to get a heavier bike upto speed fast, you'd have to bring on the amps.

So that's why I thought possibly 8T might be better. Correct me if I'm wrong..
Anyway I'm planning to run about 1500W through it, maybe a few peaks toward the 2000Ws, but definately no more than that..

btw I have a 9FET infineon from Lyen, wich is said to work really smooth and have a soft start..

[neptronix]

A few notes about your motor:

1) It's an old stock unit ( 2009 maybe? )
2) Those are the standard white gears that came on MAC motors until i think.. early 2011.
3) That's the same clutch that's coming on current MAC motors, it's not the infamous BMC clutch design that liked to seperate, so don't worry about that.
4) Yes, those windings are quite sloppy, which isn't too abnormal, sorta looks like a few turns of wire are missing here and there, but it could be that the wires are just bunched up a little.

But hey, maybe it runs just fine and you got a decent deal on an older motor. The new ones have gone up in price due to the neodymium magnet price surge.. but imho still a good deal.
And at least you ended up with a MAC and not some no-name unit which you'll never be able to get replacement parts for.

Here's what my 8 Turn looks like:



I would of course recommend cell_man for the MAC stuff.. he has connections with the MAC guys.. his prices are reasonable.. and is a good vendor overall.

[dnmun]

cell_man is MAC DADDY

[Quajochem]

I don't know if I just could swap the covers for a disk brake type, as you can see on the following pics, there's not enough room on the left - (bottom of pic) brake side, because of the way the axle is milled!

This is the motor without rim mounted the right way with the gears on the right:




And this is the motor with rim mounted (the fork I use is a roller brake type, just for showing..)
As you can see the rim is not centered in the fork, it's slightly off to the left side.
The axle has a bigger spacer on the right than on the left, I cannot mount it backwards, so where will the disk brake be? I recon an axle is not easily replaced. Maybe the only option would be a whole new motor insert with a different axle to place the hub mor towards the right side to make more room, and a new left cover with brake mount, but I doubt it would fit:

[neptronix]

That offset is not normal for a MAC motor. I have a 500w rear and a 350w front and don't have that problem.
Perhaps your wheel dishing is off.. i'm not sure but that is odd..

I believe you can't switch the cover plate out for a disc brake due to the width of the motor. That's why the 350w front motor has a disc brake, whereas the 500w motor does not. I don't see any extra width to spare there.

You can re-angle your vbrakes to work proper in the front.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a factory second unit.

[Quajochem]

Is it even possible to have a 500W mac mounted on a 100mm front fork with disk brake?? I mean does it exist?
As far as I can see there is little room, but there is still some room left if a sleaker edged MAC hub would be placed more to the right..
In theory that would be possible it think!

[o00scorpion00o]

Yep it's definitely wider than my 320 rpm!

As far as I know the slower wind motor gives more torque at slower speeds for pulling loads or hill climbing and is more efficient at slower speeds making less heat, more current in a faster wind at slower speeds means more heat in a shorter time, and I'm far from being an expert in motors.

I'm just after looking back and you got the 6T, sorry, I thought that was the slower wind!

I believe those motors gave controllers and phase a very hard time, so for a cargo bike I probably would have went for the 10T 255 rpm motor and volt it up for more speed, so yes I would not run more than 1000-1500 watts especially hill climbing or pulling a lot of weight and it's already a heavy bike on it's own. I believe 48 volts is the max that should be ran on this motor too, though I stand to be corrected on that!

See how you get on, stators, clutches and gears are easy to replace and you can always get the 8T or 10T stator later on if you burn your one!

But cell-man's site says on 36 volts the 6T should be good for 28 mph, on the 10T 20 mph, so you would need around 60 volts to get 30 mph on the 10T, but would have a lot of torque, and even my 8T has loads of torque!

[neptronix]

Is it even possible to have a 500W mac mounted on a 100mm front fork with disk brake?? I mean does it exist?
As far as I can see there is little room, but there is still some room left if a sleaker edged MAC hub would be placed more to the right..
In theory that would be possible it think!

With a custom axle ( motor needs to be butted up as far as it will go against the other side ) and some wheel dishing ( may be a bit extreme ), it could be possible. That being all said and done, there are no guarantees that you won't end up 1-2mm short of disc brake glory.

I believe that this could be made into a rear motor, but you'd have to find yourself all the rear motor case / cover bits, plus an axle.

Scorpion, the stator / ring / gear assembly is the same width as our 8 turn motors. I believe the only difference is the axle and outer cover plate / spoke holder ( whatever the technical name for it is ) assembly.