New Crystalyte 5403 Review by Doc

[Doctorbass]

what is the hub spoke hole size please?

I will take the mwasurement tonight

Doc

[Doctorbass]

Thanks for posting this! I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas morning, waiting for mine to arrive.
I wounder if the added width is due to these being a special run of the motor? Perhaps its easier to produce a small run by hand, and not get them compressed as tightly as a normal production run would be?

I feel a bit the same, even though I've dropped out of the buy! I'm glad I did, because I'm more interested in offroad, something these things are simply to big for, but I'm defiantly looking forward to seeing what people are able to do with 'em!! Who's going to be the first to force air through 'em? with the acre or 3 of space you have inside I'd be thinking a custom heatsink on one side to increace the internal surface area by a few 1000 percent or so, and some whacking great fans on the other to suck as much air though as possible... 10kw continuous anyone?????

also, it appears from the pics that it might be possible to fit a array of holes around the edge of the magnet ring, on the outer side of the spoke flanges. that way, and internal fan would be drawing air in directly over the windings, and pushing it back out on the other side (ignoring a bit of loss from going between the magnets and stator). that should result in some pretty epic cooling levels! like this (please forgive my crude paint skills!)

5404 holes example.jpg

That's a good idea! but the holes will be drilled in nearly 10mm of steel .. i just wonder if it would accect the magnetic field return from the rotor magnet...

[Doctorbass]

Drunkskunk and Oatnet,
thanks for teh appreciation it's always my pleasure to share these info.

Doc

[zombiess]

Doc, you still have the inductance listed in mH vs uH

Stop the other projects and get this thing in one of your bikes, we want to see if you can set a new record!

[John in CR]

I'm not being hard on you Doc, just pointing out that maybe this thread should be something like "dimensions and pics of the guts of new Xlyte 5403", which is useful info and appreciated by everyone. Then put your performance review in the Ebike review section. Please try to be a bit more humble with the claims, especially when using the word "continuous". How long are you calling "continuous" with your 5303 at 111kph and 11kw? 1 minute or did you get on the highway and ride many kilometers to another town WOT all the way?

A couple of reminders for you, since you're shooting for max potential, I'm sure you want maximum cooling air flow. Keep the left and right covers identified when angling the holes. Also, I firmly believe the angled stator slots on the X5's are an important aspect of their cooling, because the spinning air of at the magnets is caught by the angled slots of the stator causing an air flow through the magnetic gap from one side to the other. If you have fans or one sided air intake, take advantage and enhance that natural flow, or at least be sure you aren't fighting against it like happened with your forward angled perimeter exhaust vents on the earlier motor that killed the cooling.

I can't wait for the videos you produce so well, so I have something to shoot for.

John

[Doctorbass]

John, I am planning on making a review. But from now it’s time that is missing me.. the motor is still opened ready for the mods but yes I could modify the name of the thread.

For the 113kmh, I can say 100% sure it was temperature stabilized because while riding I saw the temp rising from 95 celsius and than staying at constant 121 celsius for about 2km at WOT power was 11kW and at that speed the motor efficiency is 80% so 2.2kW of heat to evacuate with a drilled side cover and airflow at 113km/h.

That’s a great observation about the stator angled tooth that improve cooling I never thought about that fact.
I’ll see what can I do with that.

Next for me is to remove the axel and machin it for having wider slot for the 10 gauge phase wire width


For sure i'll make a video of that!
Doc

[Doctorbass]

Update: Drilled Side cover!!

I made 16 holes carefully positionnned so that the rehenforced structure part of the center of the side cover is not affected.

The idea is to have the max drilled surface area directly in front of the stator winding to minimize the side cover to reflect the heat produced by the winding and alo to allow more air to circulate.

All holes are 1 inch diameter and are right aligned on the winding

These side cover are 1/4 inch thick!

I think i removed 103 cubic centimeter of aluminum ! = 278g total

Well this is the first step for the cooling mod.

Next is to find a hydraulic press to remove the axel to be able to machin it to be able to cary the 3 gauge 10 phase wires.

Doc

[Doctorbass]

what is the hub spoke hole size please?

hub spoke hole size : 211-212 mil

[Hyena]

These side cover are 1/4 inch thick!

Wow! I was about to comment about the holes being so large and close together but I guess with a cover that thick you can get away with it.
This thing should take a bazillion amps with those cooling holes

[itchynackers]

what is the hub spoke hole size please?

hub spoke hole size : 211-212 mil

My spoke holes are 3.57mm diameter. What am I missing here?

[Doctorbass]

what is the hub spoke hole size please?

hub spoke hole size : 211-212 mil

My spoke holes are 3.57mm diameter. What am I missing here?

a mil is a thousandh of an inch

a mm is a thousandh of a meter

It's 39.37mil per milimeter

so in milimeter it's 5.37mm

Doc

[neptronix]

LOL... haven't even ran the motor stock yet, or got it spoked.. and you already got holes in the covers.

I love this forum.

[wojtek]

thanks a lot gentlemen!

3.57mm diameter vs 5.37mm .. hmm i would expect all of 54xx having the same size?

hub spoke hole size : 211-212 mil

My spoke holes are 3.57mm diameter. What am I missing here?

a mil is a thousandh of an inch

a mm is a thousandh of a meter

It's 39.37mil per milimeter

so in milimeter it's 5.37mm

Doc

[o00scorpion00o]

LOL nep yeah, I'm thinking, DOC get that on a bike and test it quick!!!

[itchynackers]

what is the hub spoke hole size please?

hub spoke hole size : 211-212 mil

I guess I'm used to you posting in metric. Anyway, I guess I got the small spoke hole version.

Anyone know how many parsecs it is from spoke hole to spoke hole?

[grindz145]

Cromotor Vs 5403 drag race....


Seriously, this whole hubmotor thing... where will it end

[esoria]

WONDERFUL!!!!
Beautiful motor DOC, i'm really curious to see the difference with Cromotor, in performance!
I remember my 5404 and this is a great motor, only a bit heavy, but POWERFUL, this 5403 i think is VERY fast!

[Doctorbass]

what is the hub spoke hole size please?

hub spoke hole size : 211-212 mil

I guess I'm used to you posting in metric. Anyway, I guess I got the small spoke hole version.

Anyone know how many parsecs it is from spoke hole to spoke hole?

For your pleasure:
5.37 millimeter = 1.740298479e-19 parsec

[o00scorpion00o]

Ah Doc, you got out of bed at last!

Now please lace that motor up, get it on a bike and test. pleaseeeeeee

no more motor pics and data bla bla hurry up man!

[Andje]

guys, its not going to "go faster" then the 5303... the advantage will be seen when doc goes to a higher voltage AND amperage because it will last longer at those levels, but it's mostly thermal sinking that this extra motor width offers. It will give someone like doc an advantage since he was pushing that barrier before and can now push it harder, but at most it will survive and perform extreme amperage accel better because of a higher saturation point. Anyway, I'm just saying, i want a vid of it on the bike too, but jut watch docs old vids and pretend it's a thicker stator; it will be exactly the same to see everything but the temp sensors, which is just data anyway! The cool thing would be seeing how long it could MAINTAIN say 120km/h. I can put 95km/h WOT (10kw controller) through my current 5304 for my entire battery pack, but it heats up a lot more under hard accel/deccel, enough that at higher energy levels (120km/h prbly 20kw) it might burn up using a 1.5kw hour pack. Going to a 5403 wind and a higher voltage will get me the extra speed I want, and this thicker heavier motor is for lasting through that instead of burning. But just chucking it on my current bike would literally decrease performance due to the extra weight, and gain me only heat sink and maybe some acceleration if I changed my controller; as it is putting out 10kw would remain 10kw in the new motor.
Im actually most interested to see how disk brake callipers will be to fit on there. For some reason the dimensions look tight to me .

[Floont]

...Im actually most interested to see how disk brake callipers will be to fit on there. For some reason the dimensions look tight to me .

I, too, am very interested in what kind of clearance difficulties we will be running into... especially on the disk brake side.

[scriewy]

doc why you wanna put 10g phases if 2.74mm is already over 10g, 2.588mm = 10g

[Doctorbass]

doc why you wanna put 10g phases if 2.74mm is already over 10g, 2.588mm = 10g

It's because the existing wire are 11 gauge, not 10... also, the high resistant silicone skin of the wire is better than the existing fragile teflon wire

I never had any problem with the silicone wire used on phase wie.. but the teflon frafile thin skin can puncture easy and make short... or at high temp it become soft and even more fragile.

Doc

[gensem]

doc why you wanna put 10g phases if 2.74mm is already over 10g, 2.588mm = 10g

It's because the existing wire are 11 gauge, not 10... also, the high resistant silicone skin of the wire is better than the existing fragile teflon wire

I never had any problem with the silicone wire used on phase wie.. but the teflon frafile thin skin can puncture easy and make short... or at high temp it become soft and even more fragile.

Doc

Doc I very unlikely that you ll have trouble with teflon wires before roasting your winding.
I personally test all my wires in a 180c direct fire and they all survive, being silicon or teflon. I also find teflon coating weak, but the silicon is just as bad under pressure it just looks thick.

[Doctorbass]

doc why you wanna put 10g phases if 2.74mm is already over 10g, 2.588mm = 10g

It's because the existing wire are 11 gauge, not 10... also, the high resistant silicone skin of the wire is better than the existing fragile teflon wire

I never had any problem with the silicone wire used on phase wie.. but the teflon frafile thin skin can puncture easy and make short... or at high temp it become soft and even more fragile.

Doc

Doc I very unlikely that you ll have trouble with teflon wires before roasting your winding.
I personally test all my wires in a 180c direct fire and they all survive, being silicon or teflon. I also find teflon coating weak, but the silicon is just as bad under pressure it just looks thick.

I guess we probably had differents experience with these two kind of wires, but what i'm sure is that it's a good move. The silicone can be twisted have torsion, etc so when it exit from the axel, it's way less sensitive from puncture or skin damage!

I already had too many problem with the teflon wire. the tefon endout to crack easy after it had high temp. It become less flexible.

180 celsius is nothing fompare to the 260 celsius my 5303 had last summer!.. the guy that used my ebike came back from his ride and the motor was smoking alot!.. when i saw the stator temp on the bbq thermometer i saw 260 celsius and it was decreasing.. assuming that before i saw it, it could have been higher temp! ...

but guess what... it still work fine today!.. same inductance, same DC resistance, same fun!

the silicon wire are ok..

the teflon wire melt curiously at 260celsius... and the silicon are rated 200 celsius.. but from my own experience the turnigy silicon wire solved all my problem since i use them.

Doc