controller blew: EB318, lyen 18 fet

[dfar]

yes that makes sense, thank you. I actually just replaced the hall sensors in the motor so had to learn about them and there function. I will carry out this instruction and report back with my progress.

Thank you so very much

Dfar

[dfar]

the current for each lead goes through a resistor inside the controller, which you can see right next to where the wires are soldered onto the pcb. 3 in row, GBY leads going out on the other side.

when current from the 5V supply flows through the resistor, there is a voltage drop on the outer end of that resistor as the hall sensor 'sinks' the current to ground. the microprocessor detects this voltage drop and that sets the logic state to the microprocessor as to which of the phases should be active. you can see where the traces run from the end of the resistor back to the micro.

you want to measure the voltage on the outer end of the resistor, just like what the micro sees, as the wheel slowly, i mean slowly, rotates and the magnets move by the hall sensors. verify that all three hall sensors toggle between 5V and almost zero volts. you can also measure this on the wires in the 5 pin plug but since the controller is open just measure right on the trace, with the black probe on grd.

ok so the resistors toggle from near 0v to 5v and I was able to locate (i think) where the traces enter (or exit?) the microprocessor. There was only 3 wires that showed the switching

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each one has to toggle on and off. when you know that then we can go look for the traces from the micro out to the integrated circuit device that drives the mosfet gates. the driver will be out by each of the mosfets, and the traces will all run together back to the same 3 sequential pins on the micro. gotta find them and then measure the voltages on those traces as you rotate the wheel. the mosfets don't have to be active to do this.

kinda confused about this part I only found 3 leads that switched around the microprocessor as shown above, the others leads only had 0v or 5v.
After looking at the board it becomes obvious that there are 3 repeating units located near the mosfets corresponding to the 3 different phases (i think) and these are connected to independently to the micro processor by single leads. I'm I totally out in left field? I don't know if these are outputs or inputs to the microprocessor.

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connected through back

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comes out at microprocessor

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edit> just found this circuit richard drew on another thread

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 14#p575114

i think this is exactly what you have for your input voltage regulation and the Q13 is the 7812, and the diode in the corner is the 20V zener and the resistor connecting them is the little surface mount to the left of the 12V regulator, or maybe it is Q17 for the mosfet and the R120 is the resistor

I can definitely see the similarity when you point it out but I have no real knowledge of schematics to really be able to verify this one way or the other. It does seem possible that lyen controllers use this type of system as one of the posters of that thread states this seems the case. Also empirically I found the controller could handle any voltage I could throw at it (except obviously one that was too much for the particular resistor). I will have to study more into schematics.

it does look like that is the 12V, looks like it runs over to one end of that 3 terminal device Q13, with the ceramic surface mount cap to ground in between, you took out the resistor that bridged from Vcc to the 12V. did you measure the resistor with your voltmeter? don't need it for this anyway.

The voltmeter read 1700kohm when I placed the + and - on the traces that the resistor would be attached. The resistor reads nothing, I suspect it has been melted away.

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[dnmun]

wowowow, you did good.

those three traces from the micro are the signal to the mosfet drivers, and if you can see them switch on and off as the wheel turns, you can assume the micro is still functional and you should be able to use the controller again after swapping out the caps and the input resistor. i don't know if those traces will be high or low, but if they change logic state with the hall sensors, then you are home free. really good work to find those so far.

put the black on grd, and red on the three pins on the micro and let us know how it turns out. we can explain about richard's circuit and your input regulation later.

[dfar]

wowowow, you did good.

those three traces from the micro are the signal to the mosfet drivers, and if you can see them switch on and off as the wheel turns, you can assume the micro is still functional and you should be able to use the controller again after swapping out the caps and the input resistor. i don't know if those traces will be high or low, but if they change logic state with the hall sensors, then you are home free. really good work to find those so far.

put the black on grd, and red on the three pins on the micro and let us know how it turns out. we can explain about richard's circuit and your input regulation later.

so I measured the voltage at each trace exiting out the microprocessor and running to the respective mosfets. Each trace measures exactly 4.84v
and does not move when the wheel is turned. I bought a new cap to replace the one that exploded and reconnected all the caps. I replaced the power resistor with a 15k, 5 watt resistor. When I hook everything up to a 80v batt all the caps read 80v however when I plug the input 80v to 12volt line it should turn on the cycle analyst (CA) but doesn't and I have 0 volts at the hall inputs. however when I place 12 volts on the spot I did earlier I get voltage to the halls but no the CA does not turn on and the voltage still does not wavier from 3.84v on the mosfet traces.

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I'm thinking the microprocessor is ok but the problem is with the 80v input to 12v ("80-12v". I checked that connection with the voltmeter when everything was hooked up. I know the "80-12v" is split and one trace converts the 80v to 12v and the other trace is diverted to the cycle annalist to read the voltage of the pack. Perhaps there is another diversion that I can't see that gives the microchip power to toggle the mosfet?


I believe the 100v 100uf cap is blow (although it shows no sign of destruction) because when I tested it with my voltmeter it read 0v across the cap, but 80 v just after the diode. It would make sense that the 80v from the battery would have to go through a 100v 100uf cap and then to a resister and then split, one line going to the Cycle analyst, and one line heading toward the 12v? when I checked the cap with the voltmeter in the resistance setting it show 1 meaning there was no connection ( this I would think would show the cap is dead, the other caps all show near 0 ohm). cold this be my problem? when I went to pick up parts today I did not pick up a 100v 100uf cap only spare 100v 470uf and 160 470uf caps. I'm pretty sure the answer is no but I'll ask anyway, can I use one of the caps I have to see if the board works?

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I think maybe 'm just grasping at straws now

[dnmun]

well good to grasp at something.

i noticed on the picture where you traced the yellow phase wire section. D0A looks like it blew up and coated the pump up capacitor next to it with debris. is that the case?

not getting a signal on the micro output traces is not good. i expected them to toggle with the wheel since they would need to switch the drivers for the mosfets.

i think that input power resistor woulda been in the 800-1100 ohm range. assuming the controller circuit current is about 60-90milliamps. so it would have about 70V drop across it normally (.060x1100=66V), and i think it is there so that the voltage regulator gets some help in dropping the voltage at the input. some through the 12V regulator and some through the power resistor depending on the voltage at Vcc.

but if that zener diode D0A has blown up that means that the 12V rail got a huge voltage spike that was too much even for that diode. which means the voltages to the mosfet drivers was also very high and they burned up which may have allowed high voltage from the 12V rail through the mosfet driver back to the output of the micro for each of those phases.

there are a lot of smart people here who know a lot more than me about controllers, was hoping they could chime in too, but i am kinda over my head here in how the drivers would work. i assumed the 4.84V would drop to turn the driver off and if they are all on at the same time, that means all three phases are turned on, which never happens normally. usually it is 2 phases on and one off. current goes out of the high side if one phase, through the winding to the connection of the three phase wires in the motor (the wye connection), then back out through the other phase wire, and then drops out through the low side of that phase's mosfets to ground. so only two can be on at one time. so when the micro has all three on all the time, that seems to me to indicate the micro is cooked, along with the mosfet drivers too. and other stuff too i bet. but the 5V regulator is still working. amazing it survived. but maybe the damage to the micro came in through those traces from the mosfet drivers when they got hit with the high voltage on the 12V supply to them. that would account for the huge current surge that blew up the input power resistor too. all jmho. too bad all the smart people have to waste their time monitoring me and what i post up and not helping people with real problems instead of more utube videos of lipo fires.

[dfar]

you don't know how much I appreciate your help Dnmun, you've showed me more than your fair share of kindness (or pitty lol). I will continue to tinker away at it, If anything changes I'll let the forum now.

[dnmun]

hey, that's what we do. we all have burned up controllers, my intro was on duanes golden motor controller when he burned up some parts on it, and then i learned a lot from following richard and dr bass and jeremy and knuckles too. this is how i kinda taught myself some electronics. learning how the BMS works and lifepo4 battery works, and repairing chargers and even graduated to laptops and monitors.

[dfar]

ok so a little update.

I talked to lyen and got the correct value of resistor I needed (2W 200 ohm resistor, 72-100v a 300 ohm) but could not find that locally so I bought a 330ohm 5w resistor and replaced that 100v 470uf blown cap, hooked everything up and ....

IT RUNS!!!

I think before I call it finished and secure it back in it's case I'll try and take some values of what a working controller should show this way I might have an easier time troubleshooting future problems.

This controller will get me through the next couple weeks while I wait for the 134v controller ... with the new controller I can see the next thing to fry will be the motor

thanks again dnmun for your help

[dnmun]

great, i thought it was dead when all those micro outputs read the same thing at the same time. now you know a lot about how the controller works too. never did find out if the pumping diode D0A and the small charge storage cap next to it was blown up like i thought i saw in that picture.

[dfar]

never did find out if the pumping diode D0A and the small charge storage cap next to it was blown up like i thought i saw in that picture.

I think I know what parts you are referring to in which case the diode and 100v 100uf (green cap) were not replaced and everything seems to work fine. they must've been able to handle the high voltage at least until the power resistor failed.

[dnmun]

nope, in the picture where you traced the yellow phase driver signal. the D0A is the hi side charge pumping diode, and there is a little 16V cap next to it that stores the hi side charge before it jumps up above the battery voltage.

the diode looked like it was split open in the picture, but it musta been an artifact, since the controller works now.