Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 03, 2011 10:50 am

I finally updated the parts list and what is needed from Digikey. I had to increase the price of a built board to $135. I'll try to get post of a build with pictures when time allows. For now the standard version of the Smart Switch is what I will be selling. I am currently playing with the new chip, but really don't have much time to add more functions till later this fall when weather gets too cold to ride.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 06, 2011 10:14 am

I had time to install the new board on my cyclone build. It’s nice having the ability to use different cell chemistry. Here is pics of my old setup using Konions 10S 8P 12ahr at 40volts on the bottom picture and the new pack 12S 2P 10ahrs lipo’s at 50volts above. I really like the Cyclone at 50 volts. I have a smart switch for each pack. That way I don’t have to worry about the batteries. I’m only using a cheap bike computer to get me an idea on how far I can go. I’ve setup the new board with only 3 Fets. I’ve been riding it hard and have not had any problems. This is in a closed plastic box without vents. When I get a chance, I’m going to try it with one Fet and maybe a small heat sink or a metal box.
Packs.jpg
Packs.jpg (95.04 KiB) Viewed 1882 times
I’ve setup 2 friends with the same rack system. When they borrow my packs with the smart switch, I’m no longer concerned that they will damage them. Even though one of them has a Cycle Analyst, his pack is a 10S setup. I know he will end up forgetting to change his low voltage setting and burn up my pack if I didn’t have the smart switch installed.

Here is how I have it on my bike, I use velcro on the bottom of the box to attach it to the rack. Holds up pretty good even in the trails since it's rather light.
setup on bike.jpg
setup on bike.jpg (108.27 KiB) Viewed 1882 times
bike with pack.jpg
bike with pack.jpg (136.92 KiB) Viewed 1882 times

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 06, 2011 10:46 am

Hey Kin I need to ask a few dumb questions. Is there a cable needed to plug that DB9 into my laptop? Also the screen capture is really to small to read for me . Is there any way a list of steps could be made to set up the switch? Finally which port do I plug the interface into on my laptop? Thanks for being understanding regarding my ignorance.
otherDoc
Edit: What is the "scale factor" used for?
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 06, 2011 11:00 am

I just blew up the video to 400% and could see most of the changes but unfortunately I have Windows 7 and it is different than the video shows. Will the programming work with the newer Windows? I did a search for Hyperterminal and go no results.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by Alan B » Oct 06, 2011 4:29 pm

Nice setup. Keeping the LVC with the pack works out well.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 07, 2011 12:19 am

I tend to forget that a lot of newer computers are doing away with all the different ports and going with USB. You would need a USB to Serial adaptor. A search on Google shows it can be found even at Wal-Mart.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... IUBEPMCMAI#
Older laptops and computers have this port and all you will need is just a standard serial cable.

If you plan to keep only one configuration. I can preset the parameters for you and you won't need to bother with a serial cable or interface board. Then it would just be plug and play. All I would need is what voltage cutoff you want, the pack size and chemistry so I can double check your choice and how long before you want the auto off feature to shut down the bike. I recommend 60 mins.

The scale factor is used to calibrate the A/D more precisely. But it is mainly needed due to the voltage range. Here is a simple spreadsheet to tweak RH and RL values for those who have a better understanding of analog to digital conversion.
AtoD Calculator.xls
(9.5 KiB) Downloaded 96 times
But it is easier to just stick with the two ranges I’ve given.

If your pack is between 12 - 55 volts your scale factor will be .0537
If your pack is between 56-105 volts your scale factor will be .1027

Actually I’m glad you brought up the scale factor. I’m revising the parts list to make it easier, and just have 2 default ranges. For those who know how to use the spreadsheet and have accurate meters. They can modify RH and RL values.

I will try to get better documentation as I get more questions. This is usually the part that I tend to get lax on till someone brings up a detail that I’ve left out.
docnjoj wrote:Hey Kin I need to ask a few dumb questions. Is there a cable needed to plug that DB9 into my laptop? Also the screen capture is really to small to read for me . Is there any way a list of steps could be made to set up the switch? Finally which port do I plug the interface into on my laptop? Thanks for being understanding regarding my ignorance.
otherDoc
Edit: What is the "scale factor" used for?

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 07, 2011 12:52 am

Looks like Hyperterminal is not provided with newer operating systems. You can copy it from older systems if you have it. Any simple terminal program should work. I did a search and found a program called putty.
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgta ... nload.html
Just download the program putty.exe and run it.
Here is how to set it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCNh1ByYzw4

Here is what the setup menu looks like in Hyperterminal, it will look similar in any other terminal program.
Setup menu.jpeg
Setup menu.jpeg (46.04 KiB) Viewed 1981 times
docnjoj wrote:I just blew up the video to 400% and could see most of the changes but unfortunately I have Windows 7 and it is different than the video shows. Will the programming work with the newer Windows? I did a search for Hyperterminal and go no results.
otherDoc

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 07, 2011 9:55 am

That does it! I'll paypal my money for the works if you give me a total with the box and the buttons and the serial adaptor. Ill send a PM. Thanks for all the necessary info!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 13, 2011 8:32 am

Hi Kin
I've been trying Putty but I can't see the screens again. I think it says Com1, speed 3600, Default settings on the first screen but when I try to load it says "Can't find host". Do I need to have the switch hooked up before I try to set up Putty?
Thanks
David
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

kfong
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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 13, 2011 10:31 am

You might try a different com port. I think they can go up to 4 ports. Your hardware setup page in windows would give you a clue on the ports, but it's just as easy to try all 4 ports. You don't need anything connected for the port to operate.
Com1-Com4

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by chroot » Oct 13, 2011 11:45 am

kfong- Do you still have these left over? I might need 2 of these for my ebike and cargo bike.
Thank you Justin Lemire-Elmore - You are a HERO!

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 13, 2011 12:23 pm

Yes, just pm me on what you require.
chroot wrote:kfong- Do you still have these left over? I might need 2 of these for my ebike and cargo bike.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 13, 2011 2:06 pm

kfong wrote:You might try a different com port. I think they can go up to 4 ports. Your hardware setup page in windows would give you a clue on the ports, but it's just as easy to try all 4 ports. You don't need anything connected for the port to operate.
Com1-Com4
Thanks Kin. I'll play with it a bit.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

kfong
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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 19, 2011 3:55 pm

Here are build pics of the Smart Switch. I took a bunch of pics as during one of the builds.

To make things easier during the build. Install the socket and IC's first since you can lay them flat.
Attachments
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DSC00014.JPG
Finshed, these are all the parts needed for the Standard setup
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DSC00015.JPG
Connection needed on back of board.
DSC00015.JPG (41.57 KiB) Viewed 1908 times
DSC00022.JPG
Place solder blobs to short connections together. This configures the serial board.
DSC00022.JPG (39.35 KiB) Viewed 1908 times
DSC00025.JPG
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DSC00027.JPG
Serial board is finished
DSC00027.JPG (39.41 KiB) Viewed 1908 times

kfong
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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 19, 2011 11:47 pm

Docnjoj, asked for a complete plug and play setup. I incorporated the serial board with the Smart Switch. Since the serial port actually requires only 5volts to operate. I removed the original 5volts voltage regulator and tapped into the 5volt supply from the Smart Switch using the current connector labeled AMPS. The pins are marked as + and -, for the +5volts and Ground. Instead of using connectors, I find soldering more reliable. Here are pics of the custom CNC box I built using black ABS plastic.
DSC00030.JPG
DSC00030.JPG (37.26 KiB) Viewed 1896 times
Here it is connected to the Smart Switch
DSC00035.JPG
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Installed in the custom CNC box I built using black ABS plastic. Serial board is mounted using locking nuts to prevent loosening.
DSC00039.JPG
DSC00039.JPG (58.98 KiB) Viewed 1896 times
Black switch for ON, Red switch for OFF. Battery goes to the red and black Andersons, Controller to the white and blue.
DSC00046.JPG
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DSC00053.JPG
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The serial port will allow for easy parameter changes as well instant data monitoring. I plan to use this data port as a way to connect to an LCD display in the future.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 20, 2011 7:04 am

Hey Kin
Can the switch be reprogrammed off the bike with just the serial cable and laptop or does it need the 5 volts from the bike battery?
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 20, 2011 7:22 am

Once you plug in your bike battery, you have power for the Smart switch to communicate to your laptop. Just plugging in the laptop alone won't do anything. If you have room on your recombant, you could even monitor the status as you ride or capture the data and look it later.

docnjoj wrote:Hey Kin
Can the switch be reprogrammed off the bike with just the serial cable and laptop or does it need the 5 volts from the bike battery?
otherDoc

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 20, 2011 11:47 am

Thanks Kfong! Looking good!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

kfong
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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 23, 2011 8:47 pm

Here are pics of one of two scooters I build for my nieces, ages 10 and 13. I used the Smart Switch so it would be easy for them to operate it. Without it, I'm pretty sure I would be replacing batteries. I picked up a simple charger for them to just plug in when they need to charge it. Basically it’s maintenance free.

I ended up modifying the scooters as well. I removed and replaced the original controller and throttle. I picked up these scooters used so the batteries were already bad. The throttle was basically an on/off control. They now have a true linear throttle. I kept the voltage near 24volts. I didn’t want it too fast for them. Using A123 cells. The fuel gauge meter actually measures true amp hour usage. I had to keep it simple; a meter similar to a gas gauge was used. When it reaches half way, they know that they need to turn around. This was all done on the Smart Switch. I am currently working with an upgraded processor with more memory so I can offer these features. My sister just picked up a smaller version for my nephew for me to mod. The kids really enjoy riding them.
Attachments
scooter.jpg
scooter.jpg (82.92 KiB) Viewed 1746 times
meter.jpg
meter.jpg (65.76 KiB) Viewed 1746 times
meter2.jpg
Still need to come up with a better enclosure
meter2.jpg (62.1 KiB) Viewed 1746 times

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 24, 2011 4:09 pm

I really like that battery meter! Can it be programmed through the Smart Switch for various voltage levels?
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

kfong
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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 24, 2011 5:41 pm

The meter has only 10 positions. It would not be very good for voltage measurements since it's way too coarse. What would you need the voltage levels for?
docnjoj wrote:I really like that battery meter! Can it be programmed through the Smart Switch for various voltage levels?
otherDoc

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 25, 2011 5:09 pm

kfong wrote:The meter has only 10 positions. It would not be very good for voltage measurements since it's way too coarse. What would you need the voltage levels for?
docnjoj wrote:I really like that battery meter! Can it be programmed through the Smart Switch for various voltage levels?
otherDoc
So my wife doesn't get stranded like she has a few times. The Smart switch arrived safe and sound with instructions. Thanks Kin! Tomorrow I will set it up to do a test of the 6 Fatpacks using the cutoff. I will power the Wattmeter with a 9 volt walwart so it doesn't lose the LVC numbers and use my hotplate as resistance. Thanks again for this wonderful device, kfong!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

kfong
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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 25, 2011 5:38 pm

That was the whole reason I put that meter on the scooters. You really don't need to measure voltages, just amp hour capacity. Once you enter in the actual battery capacity, a current meter counts down the amp hrs left. Same as a wattmeter. I display the ratio, so the meter works exactly like a fuel gauge on your car. If the meter is half way, you have exactly half capacity left. When you are near empty, I have the fuel gauge flashing. You treat it no different than you car's fuel gauge. When you power down it remembers the setting and when you charge it up, it resets it to full. My 10 and 13 year old nieces find this much easier to understand than voltages or watts. I will be offering this as an add on to the Smart Switch maybe sometime this winter when I get more time to work on it. All it requires is a current shunt that plugs into the Smart Switch. It already works, but I have no room on the current micro without getting rid of the menu system. The good news is I have the upgraded micro and it gives me more code space to implement all the cool features I want to add.

I'm glad you got the smart switch. I'll post more info on the advance menu I installed. This is only useful for those doing battery testing on single packs. It is to reduce the sag delay, which is defaulted to 20 seconds. With your bank of 6 cells, the sag delay is fine. If you are only testing a single pack, you would decrease the sag delay or increase the low level cut off. The advance menu isn't really needed until I add more features.
docnjoj wrote:
kfong wrote:The meter has only 10 positions. It would not be very good for voltage measurements since it's way too coarse. What would you need the voltage levels for?
docnjoj wrote:I really like that battery meter! Can it be programmed through the Smart Switch for various voltage levels?
otherDoc
So my wife doesn't get stranded like she has a few times. The Smart switch arrived safe and sound with instructions. Thanks Kin! Tomorrow I will set it up to do a test of the 6 Fatpacks using the cutoff. I will power the Wattmeter with a 9 volt walwart so it doesn't lose the LVC numbers and use my hotplate as resistance. Thanks again for this wonderful device, kfong!
otherDoc
Last edited by kfong on Oct 25, 2011 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by docnjoj » Oct 25, 2011 5:44 pm

That "sag delay" is really "smart". Her Ping maybe has 3-5 seconds before the BMS shuts down and needs to be reset! Very kool!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

kfong
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Re: Smart Switch V4 "Intelligent low voltage cutoff switch"

Post by kfong » Oct 25, 2011 6:06 pm

Thanks, that was one of the things that really frustrated me about a direct cut off when I knew the battery was fine but just needed some recovery time, due to extreme acceleration or hill climb. It allows you to end up very close to your low level cut off setting. Without allowing you to go too crazy. It resets when the voltage recovers, and waits for another low voltage to trip it. If you just climbed a hill, you might not hit that point for another mile or more. You can set this value to you personal preference. I will post info on it soon, but I find 20 seconds to be fine. Too long of a delay and you risk going past your low voltage cutoff when it totally shuts off.

docnjoj wrote:That "sag delay" is really "smart". Her Ping maybe has 3-5 seconds before the BMS shuts down and needs to be reset! Very kool!
otherDoc

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