American Made Lithium Battery Packs

[lester12483]

Here is the AllCell 48V 12AH battery pack. Its much lighter than Ping and weighs 9 lbs. It's not lifepo4 chemistry.. its LiNMC.

I am very impressed by the battery performance and AllCell's manufacturing. They have Ping beat quality in my opinion.

[Jeremy Harris]

Haven't we already established that these are really Japanese Panasonic batteries masquerading as being "American made"?

I may be wrong, and these may be great batteries, but I am fairly certain that they aren't made in the US at all. Allcell are an assembly firm, I believe, taking products from the Far East and putting them together for the US market using they're own thermal wax mounting method. I wish them luck, particularly if they offer people in your country good support and service. It might be an idea not to mislead by calling them "American made" though, particularly when there are many other manufacturers selling these multi-cell packs. They have nothing in common with Ping battery packs, BTW, they are very similar in cell type and construction to those sold by VPower and Cammy, so they would be a better comparison. Personally I always hate it when vendors or advertisers compare their products with others, in a way that is intended to put their competitors down. It always makes me think they have something to hide.

Jeremy

[auraslip]

Here is the AllCell 48V 12AH battery pack. Its much lighter than Ping and weighs 9 lbs.

Mmmm..my 48v20ah ping weighs 20lbs.....

It might be an idea not to mislead by calling them "American made" though, particularly when there are many other manufacturers selling these multi-cell packs.

I dunnu Jermey. When it comes to quality I kinda feel QC and pack construction is more important than who actually makes the cell. You can always pick through a 100 marginally decent cells, and throw away 20 bad ones. American made kinda implies an american level of QC and customer service. Don't know if that's a good thing any more though

[lester12483]

Jeremy are there no lithium battery suppliers in merry old England? Wouldnt you like to support local companies?

It's just my opinion. I have both Ping and AllCell batteries and AllCell wins. Everyone glorifies Ping yet there is viable competition out there.

When the currency manipulation in China gets resolved someday then you might be buying American made lithium packs.

I say "American made" because they are made in a little factory on the south side of Chicago. They dont come from thin air.

[auraslip]

Everyone glorifies Ping yet there is viable competition out there.

Hardly. The only reason any one recommends them is they understand western standards of customer service.

When the currency manipulation in China gets resolved someday then you might be buying American made lithium packs.

When the price of oil rises too
but lets be honest; how many factories are selling direct to american consumers?

I say "American made" because they are made in a little factory on the south side of Chicago. They dont come from thin air.

The packs are assembled in chicago. Linguistic trickery there...... I've seen too many threads on this forum turn into fireworks because of it....

I am rather interested in these though! How much are they? What sort of C-rate? Any more pictures? You could probably do well just selling these if the price is competitive with ping. They don't even need to perform better. Just shipping from the states is a big plus.

[dogman]

Panasonics definitely rock. Looks like a good american assembled pack to me. Take apart a 2011 Ford and I bet you see hecho in Mexico stamped on quite a few parts.

Now we just need Allcell to make them as easy to buy as Ping. Like Ebikekit sells em or something.

Got a link we can just click on to buy one?

[Jeremy Harris]

Jeremy are there no lithium battery suppliers in merry old England? Wouldnt you like to support local companies?

It's just my opinion. I have both Ping and AllCell batteries and AllCell wins. Everyone glorifies Ping yet there is viable competition out there.

When the currency manipulation in China gets resolved someday then you might be buying American made lithium packs.

I say "American made" because they are made in a little factory on the south side of Chicago. They dont come from thin air.

If I had a local assembler of quality battery packs, sure I'd support them. However, I wouldn't try and BS people by pretending they were made somewhere else, not would I chuck a sales pitch into an inappropriate area of this forum. Ads belong down in the "sales" section, in my view (and frankly this is an ad by a business, nothing more).

The politics of China are something else entirely, but let's not forget that China manufacturing is supported by Western companies who outsource vast amounts of production there. Frankly, it's really just our greed that's given China an opportunity to profit from us.

Finally "made" means manufactured, not just wired up and assembled. The cells aren't "American made" at all, in fact if they were I'm not sure it'd be a particularly good sign of quality nowadays, unfortunately, and I'd say the same if they were made here in the UK. If they were made in somewhere like Germany I'd buy them like a shot, because I've yet to see a poor quality engineering product from there.

As I said before, I wish Allcell well. The key to success is providing good customer service. If they can match Ping for this, and still keep their prices affordable, then that has to be good for all.

I still think this thread belongs in the "sales" area though.

Jeremy

[Hillhater]

.... If they were made in somewhere like Germany I'd buy them like a shot, because I've yet to see a poor quality engineering product from there. ..

... TRABANT ...

[neptronix]

Hmm.. 3 pages of this thread and no price in any page.

What's the deal?

[Lessss]

It's an advertising thread for Japanese lithium batteries with an American pack/cooling system that the original poster is trying to pawn off as American made lithium.

[Jeremy Harris]

.... If they were made in somewhere like Germany I'd buy them like a shot, because I've yet to see a poor quality engineering product from there. ..

... TRABANT ...

I guess I should have qualified that by saying modern, re-unified Germany, or maybe West Germany prior to re-unification..............

Jeremy

[neptronix]

It's an advertising thread for Japanese lithium batteries with an American pack/cooling system that the original poster is trying to pawn off as American made lithium.

Well aware of that.
It is still an American pack with an American warranty.
The interest is in building something that can be sold in the USA to an average joe.. not hobbyist stuff like you see on ES.

[Lessss]

Well aware of that.

Good then you agree the title should be changed (American Made PACKS[Japanese lithium])or moved to the selling threads.

[neptronix]

Well aware of that.

Good then you agree the title should be changed (American Made PACKS[Japanese lithium])or moved to the selling threads.

No, i am not for any kind of censorship or scuttling around of people's posts.

[docnjoj]

OK folks so after 3 pages of advertising and yapping I still don't see a price. I like to buy American whenever possible ( I use AstroFlight stuff all the time) but Bob and company has always been high quality and reasonable priced with excellent service. Let's start with price of these Allcell batts and go from there! How about it, Lester?
otherDoc

[Gordo]

Well aware of that.

Good then you agree the title should be changed (American Made PACKS[Japanese lithium]) AND moved to the selling threads.

+1

What is wrong with this guy? How hard is it. "I have xxx to sell. This is the price. This is my contact info." Isn't this what everyone else does? On this forum, at your peril, you can include a bunch of BS as to where it is MADE, what it is MADE out of and how much better it is than everyone else's product in the world.
American Made quit meaning much to the rest of the world a long, long time ago. I've got a $70,000 1998 Cadillac with 110,000 miles on it, sitting in my back yard with the head bolts pulled out of the block. It wasn't made in CHINA!

[Lessss]

There are other threads on the same packs Just do a search on ALLCELL and you'll see how many threads this advertiser has started.
Conspicuously it is not in the American made thread of Locks.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25374&p=367106&hilit=allcell#p367106
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24840&p=361684&hilit=allcell#p361684
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24696&hilit=allcell

I paid $720 for the lithium 48V 12AH pack.

[neptronix]

I paid $720 for the lithium 48V 12AH pack.

*spits out coffee on keyboard*

$20 x 16 12AH headways = $320
That's USA retail price.

Now i know the BMS and casing and filler material are going to cost something.
And the Panasonic cells are probably going to be more expensive.

But that is only the runner up to one of the most the most expensive american lifepo4's out there..


http://www.e-bikekit.com/shop/index.php?p=product&id=121&parent=2

And this is why electric bikes will always have a hard time catching on. We cannot/are not willing to make an investment and mass produce / bring the cost down to a realistic level.

You might as well keep putting gas in the Chevy Suburban.

[auraslip]

Battery packs are very hard to make a decent profit off of. Even with good QC and decent cells, you'll still have warranty issues that cut deeply into your profits. Combine that with a product that already has a low profit margin because of the price of shipping and raw materials and you'll have a hard time every making the %200 return on your investment that you need to make for it to be worth your time.

The same is true for hub motors to a degree. I really wouldn't be surprised if most retailers make the lion share of their profits on selling brake levers and throttles for $15 a pop.

[neptronix]

Battery packs are very hard to make a decent profit off of. Even with good QC and decent cells, you'll still have warranty issues that cut deeply into your profits. Combine that with a product that already has a low profit margin because of the price of shipping and raw materials and you'll have a hard time every making the %200 return on your investment that you need to make for it to be worth your time.

The same is true for hub motors to a degree. I really wouldn't be surprised if most retailers make the lion share of their profits on selling brake levers and throttles for $15 a pop.

Last time i checked, hobbyking, ping, cell_man and others seem to be doing just fine.

But over here we continue to defeat ourselves.

[auraslip]

Ping and cell_man are only $200 less for a comparable pack, and they have the advantage of being in china. Cheaper operating cost, better access to battery factories, and they're more of a guy in their garage type of setup. I don't know about HK, but I suspect they make very little on batteries. I think they understand that if your buying their batteries, you'll also be spending almost an equal amount of money on planes, chargers, and accessories; stuff with a large profit margin. It might explain why they don't sell bigger battery packs for ebikers; we're not as profitable because we don't buy as much hobby stuff.

I'm not defending their prices; just pointing out that we're so used to cheap stuff, but we rarely consider the amount of time we spending getting stuff this cheap. $700 for a battery pack might not be bad if you don't want to spend the time getting it to work.

[neptronix]

48v 10ah pingbattery - $348.00
48v 15ah pingbattery - $485.00

Cell man, dunno.. most likely under $500, and for that price you get freaking a123; some of the best cells in existance.

Case in point.. instead of investing in efficiently producing this stuff in massive quantities, we would rather buy low quality stuff from China, drastically inflate the cost and use that price to pay for warranty issues..

How does that make any freaking sense?

Our mentality is holding us back.
I wish i had the ability to open this kind of business. I would take on such a venture. We can still mass-manufacture things here in the USA.. i mean if Chrysler can sell you a new minivan for $23k, we can make a little battery pack for around $500..

[dogman]

I still say, the panasonic cells are known to be ok. So an easy webpage link, where you click buy and it ships in 24 hours would be nice.

What diff does it make where it's assembled and where it's waranteed if you can't buy one easy. If you can't even buy one easy, you'll love working with their warratee dept.

[Lessss]

I still say, the panasonic cells are known to be ok. So an easy webpage link, where you click buy and it ships in 24 hours would be nice.

What diff does it make where it's assembled and where it's warranted(sp) if you can't buy one easy. If you can't even buy one easy, you'll love working with their warranty(sp) dept.

NO ISSUE WITH ANY OF THAT AT ALL. The problem is this vendor is starting MULTIPLE THREADS here misleading people as to what they are getting. They are NOT American made lithium cells but Japanese cells.
The pack itself might be united stater assembled etc..

Japanese made lithium american assembled packs is what is being advertised. Since it is yet another advertisement it should be in the selling threads. If it was one thread of somebody saying, hey this is what I use - -then ok. However this is not just one thread, and it is not, hey this is what I use, but is a co-ordinated marketing scheme here on the board flouting the posting rules and being dishonest about the product to boot.


Notice how this thread is now where it belongs.... in the marketing for sale threads.

[miro13car]

lester,
you started this thred.
Do you have anything to sell?
telling us about others who have somthing to sell?
It does not belong here.
Every thread on this subforum is started by somebody who wants to sell something, right?
so lester do you sell?
MC