Bionx PL500HS, Dahon MU SL, Schlumpf High Speed Drive

[skubadu]

I also would like information on an Optibike Clone, I don't care about sub-standard batteries or motors or wheels as I will be upgrading those items in the future.
I want the basics of frame & motor reduction gears.

Skubadu

[Boreas]

Don't mean to hijack this thread to talk about the 350 PL, but.....

Regarding speed - you really are going to be limited if you don't have a big gear. My large chain ring is 48 and the smallest gear on my freewheel is 11 teeth. So I can cruise with this up to about 23 mph. But 11 tooth freewheels are no longer made, afaik. I have one more freewheel left with this configuration. After than, I'm probably going to have to use a 13 tooth one. So unless you have a monster chain ring, this is going to be an issue. The internal -geared hub may be the only good solution.

.....

Hi,

I'm new to this forum as well as to e-bikes and pedelecs. I just tried a Whisper for a quick spin and fell in love with the concept. I am at the moment seriously considering getting the BioniX 350 kit in the US and bring it with me to Europe, as it seems to be what I am looking for. I am trying to find out as much as I can about it before I make the final desicion. From cyclepete's posting it seems that he's got a 350 front wheel hub motor. I have seen it advertized at a vendors web pages, but I have yet to see it mentioned on BionX's own web site, so I got a bit puzzled. I was under the impression that the BoinX kits were rear hub only.

From what I have understood about the kit it responds to your pedalling by measuring the strain on the axle bolt put on it by the pull of the chain. This is done by means of a torque measuring device in the axle bolt. The output from the device is then read by the electronics residing in the hub. The more torque put on the axle bolt the more output from the hub motor. Everything is built as one complete unit with only the battery and the console as external devices. So far so good.

But evidently there are front hub configurations out there. How do they measure the torque when the unit is put in the front wheel? Do they separate the unit and put the axle bolt from the hub in the rear axle and run cables through it to the front hub electronics? I hope cyclepete or someone else here can help me finding the answer to this as it puzzles me. I would not mind having a front wheel configuration in the winter either. Having 2 wheel drive during winter with snow and ice conditions may be a good ting.

Kind regards.

[DahonElectric]

Boreas,

The front wheel configuration is available, but it is in a throttle assist system only like an eZee or a 9C. If you want front, go for an eZee or a 9C with a Cycle Analyst as they are a more cost effective system wise compared to the Bionx. However, the Bionx strain gauge system works only with the rear hub setup because it needs the chain to measure the amount of pedal power the rider puts out and then multiply it for a factor you set in the computer.

The PL350 is a good system -- I have the P250 and I like it because it gets you to pedal the bike full time. Whereas with my 9C system, it doesn't because the torque and the speed of the bike is too strong and fast to make no sense at all pedaling.

DE.

[deerfencer]

Contrary to the crank posting re overseas sources, Optibikes are handmade in Boulder CO. Go to the Opti website and look for the video showing the frames being built in house. Interesting process that I doubt even the Chinese would bother replicating as it appears very time consuming.

[julesa]

Contrary to the crank posting re overseas sources, Optibikes are handmade in Boulder CO. Go to the Opti website and look for the video showing the frames being built in house. Interesting process that I doubt even the Chinese would bother replicating as it appears very time consuming.

That would help explain the $6k+ price tag.

[bumper]

For those that have returned their Bionx for service: do they require that you return the entire unit? Hub, controller and battery pack? I'm having an issue where the throttle works, but the various assistance levels do not engage when pedalling. thanks.

[dennis]

Dennis, You have a lot invested in tthis and I can't inagine you are going to quit now. What is your plan now? Is Power in Motion going to help with the burned out board and why it did that?

Ken from Power in Motion sent me a rebuilt battery box last month with the regen disabled. (the battery board was from my first PL350 Bionx kit that did not regen after a spill, with the regen disabled the after market batteries worked great.
Here is another battery hack I found from...reply#11 by kosherrev on 09/06/2009 http://visforvoltage.org/forum/5360-bio ... eplacement

I finally got a chance to take it for a ride with the 4 x 10Ah LiFePO4 batteries placed in a back breaking backpack. I hooked them up to a Watts Up meter and here are the results of the 1 hr 55 min 46 mile test ride that traveled through the hills of Palos Verdes, California and the beach cities via the Strand.

Bike & motor about 37 lbs, batteries about 28 lbs
Total weight of bike & rider and batteries about 215lbs
top downhill speed about 40mph
slowest steep hill climb speed about 7 to 8mph (low torque motor requires a lot of pedal input to keep the motor spinning)
fastest moderate grade hill climb speed about 21mph with a lot of pedal effort
top speed on the flats about 28mph with a lot of pedal effort, a get your ass moving human/electric hybrid
throttle only speed on the flats from 22 to 26mph
average speed about 20mph
starting voltage 40V
ending voltage 39.49V
voltage sag 37.32Vm
used 17.143Ah
992.5Wp, 659.3Wh, 25.95Ap
Blew past all lycra clad roadies except for one roadie that was able to keep pace and draft me for about 1/6 of a mile at 25-28mph on the flats ...on the hilly section, did not encounter any drafters.
at the end of the ride, legs like jello, due to non- stop pedaling up & down hills with the Schlumpf HS drive.

[dennis]

Range test LiFEPO4 38.4V 10Ah x 4 battery packs in parallel.
Hybrid pedal/motor range, 82.1 miles @ average speed about 21.3 mph, start 40.8V, below 36V (bms worked flawlessley and cut off power) lost all watts up meter data, pedaled home 2.4 miles partially assisted. total miles 84.5 miles, total run time about 3 hrs 27 mins.

[7bobw]

I'm glad you got it runing and it sounds like a good setup. When my battery dies I'll try your hookup. Thanks for the update.

[dennis]

You're welcome, I'm happy to contribute my 1/2 cent to this helpful open source forum.

The battery is a real drag to carry but I hope in the near future, due to the push for electric automobiles, some manufacturer will make a new high capacity battery that will keep me from breaking my achy breaky back ...who knows, maybe a hybrid ultracapacitor battery that can accept a regen charge without frying the battery control board...

Until then I have one of these on order for my normal pedal mountain bike and the electrified Dahon Mu SL.

[dennis]

Did a 58 min full throttle/max pedal input ride today through the hills of Palos Verdes with 3 x 10Ah LiFePO4 batteries carried in a backpack. Something interesting happened while I was traveling down the steep hill on Hawthorne Blvd heading north towards Torrance. I decided to see if I can push the bike past 43 mph with the Schlumpf in high gear and me pedaling like a banana throwing monkey

The resistance going downhill at 43 mph is hard to overcome, but with alot of pedal effort, I broke the barrier and something really strange happened...it was like I hit a turbo boost button when I past 43 mph to 44 mph...the bike quickly lurched to 49 mph (this is the mph indicated on the Bionx consol...with the wheel diameter programmed at 1596 for a 20 inch rim.) During that steep leg of the trip, I was able to do this twice and each time I overcame the resistance from 43 mph to 44 mph, the bike quickly lurched forward to 49 mph and maintained that speed during the entire steep section and the pedaling became effortless. This is achieved with no throttle input, just plain pedaling with the system at 0 assist. In my normal pedal bike, I could only manage 48 mph down that same steep portion of road. I need to do another test tomorrow to see if this can be replicated. I think I need to purchase a separate bike speedo to verify the speed. But from all indications, I was going pretty fast because I was keeping up with the motor traffic... Who said back EMF's are bad ...on second thought...they are badddddd

Stats of the ride from the Watts up meter & Bionx consol:
21.8 mi, 58 mins, Average speed 21.3 mph, starting voltage 40.27V, ending voltage 39.55V, used 7.554 Ah, voltage sag 37.45 Vm, 934.5 Wp, 289.9 Wh, 24.48 Ap...who knows what the motor back emf was doing when it "boosted" the bike from 44 to 49 mph during the steep downhill run

Did a few more hill tests but could not replicate what happened during the last ride...highest speed achieved downhill was 45 mph with vigorous pedaling in high gear...a nice view from the hills...total miles on the Bionx odometer 1122 miles.

IMG_0708 (Custom).JPG

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more test rides: 01/02/2010 with 2 batteries in the not so back breaky "power" pack. top downhill speed...51 mph sustained, calm, warm, windless conditions are required to sustain these speeds. 26.2 miles, 40.70V start, 39.40V end, used 9.875 Ah, 35.79 Vm, average speed 20.5 mph, 25.93 Ap, 962.2 Wp, 371.1 Wh, ride duration 1 hr 54 mins...my electic bikey can keep up with roadies downhill...never thought it could happen...but with the Schlumpf HS Drive...it's possible with alot of pedal input

01/03/2010 2 batteries, top downhill speed...51 mph sustained, another calm, warm, windless day, slowest uphill speed 14 mph, 16.4 miles averaged 20.3 mph, 41.40 V start, 39.56V end, used 6.67 Ah, 989.1 Wp, 26.51 Ap, 36.49 Vm, 251.5 Wh, 981.9 Wp...ride duration 45 mins.

a few pics:
http://s488.photobucket.com/albums/rr24 ... Custom.jpg
http://s488.photobucket.com/albums/rr24 ... Custom.jpg
http://s488.photobucket.com/albums/rr24 ... Custom.jpg

[swbluto]

It's sad to see you go since you bring some currently lacking animation to the community, but farewell. 'Tis true that these forums consist of the best of the best of the best, which can be intimidating at times.