The steepest hills

[lemmiwinks]

Holy S*it! - that's a steep hill.
I'd be afraid to go down that.

My thoughts exactly! Especially in the wet, those cobblestones or whatever they are don't inspire much confidence.

[fechter]

I took my Vego up a local street called Esmeyer Drive in San Rafael.
I was able to motor up to the highest part at around 15mph.

On the way down, my brakes almost completely faded.

Here's the profile of the hill using National Geograpic Topo:

The upper portion is an AVERAGE 15% grade.

[Lowell]

I tried Royal Oak hill in Burnaby, BC the other day and managed a steady 57km/h heading south between Deer Lake Parkway and Kingsway. I looked online, but couldn't find any info on percent grade. Anyone know where to find that info?

[Lowell]

[Lowell]

It turns out the city of Burnaby has fantastic topographical data on their web site! The middle of Royal Oak ave has exactly 12.77% grade. So my bike goes 35.4mph up a 12.8% grade carrying a 7lb charger/rack assembly and my work backpack of about 10lbs.

[Lowell]

Stewardson Way in New Westminster, BC: 55ft rise in 1290ft = 4.26%. My best speed up that hill is 47.8mph, and at that speed wind and an aero tuck make a big difference. Normally I top out around 44-45mph up that hill in comfort.

[EbikeMaui]

The video didn't have the wide angle so when climbing the hill it was pointed at the ground too much.The trip included going down to the ocean then back to where I started in 11.1 miles using 6.4 amp hours on 72 volt pack.Also using one gear ratio.You may notice that it took anout 4 amp hours to go about 4 miles up a average 20* grade.with a 2000 ft elevation rise in 2o minutes.Now lets see a hub motor ebike do the same.

http://tinyurl.com/ynsh69


Here is the video..
http://tinyurl.com/3ad8g2
http://tinyurl.com/yp8378

[Lowell]

Isn't this the exact same post as the one in the thread right below this one??

[EbikeMaui]

Isn't this the exact same post as the one in the thread right below this one??

The point is Where is there any video of a hub motor ebike climbing a 2000 ft rise in less than 18 minutes ?On the dirt pedaling or not ?

[TylerDurden]

I'm confused...

is that a 4mi run with a 2000' rise?

that would work out to a 9.4% grade.

4 x 5280 = 21120 2000/21120 = .0946

[Lowell]

Seems like every time a story is retold, the grade becomes a little steeper...

[EbikeMaui]

Seems like every time a story is retold, the grade becomes a little steeper...

If the steepest part of the was 30% and you couldn't do that what would the average grade matter?

[TylerDurden]

Seems like every time a story is retold, the grade becomes a little steeper...

If the steepest part of the was 30% and you couldn't do that what would the average grade matter?

For the sake of discussion we can say the average is 10%.

18mph, 50lb MTB, 160lb rider, 10% grade = 976 watts to the road... for 20min continous.

Seems like it might be doable...

[EbikeMaui]

Seems like every time a story is retold, the grade becomes a little steeper...

If the steepest part of the was 30% and you couldn't do that what would the average grade matter?

For the sake of discussion we can say the average is 10%.

18mph, 50lb MTB, 160lb rider, 10% grade = 976 watts to the road... for 20min continous.

Seems like it might be doable...

Get out the Xlyte dyno caculator to see how a loaded hub motor reacts at 18 mph burning up half of the 9oo watts in heat.Better yet lets a ViDEO of a 2000 ft rise climb no matter how long it takes.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2082053937

[wren]

I live near Pittsburgh PA.

...

Lycras criticize me for desiring a pedal-assist bike for commuting.

...

I don't think they have any idea of what the hills are like around here - not miles long like you would find in the Rockies but very, very steep with no flat parts.

I'm hoping that pedelecs, ebikes (whatever) get more popular around here. We've got great bike trails (former railroad tracks) but the roads sure could be made more bike friendly.

DanEL,

Absolutely! I'm from Pittsburgh as well. The hills are the main reason I'm adding electric assist. They're also the reason I've purchased gears for the project. The secondary reason for an electric assist is to better maintain speed with the flow of traffic, since it's often necessary to take the lane around here.

I'm more than a little disappointed that an e-bike with gears may not be legal in Pennsylvania.

Anyway, here are some more Pittsburgh hills (just listing some above 20%).

37% Canton Avenue
32% Dornbush Street
29% Boustead Street
28% East Woodford Avenue
24% Rialto Street
23% Hampshire Avenue
22% Capital Avenue
22% Fallowfield Avenue
22% Potomac Avenue
21% Flatbush Avenue
21% Belasco Avenue
20% Walbridge Street
20% Dagmar Avenue

[Lowell]

Those are some pretty mean hills! What's the typical length?

[EbikeMaui]

I live near Pittsburgh PA.

...

Lycras criticize me for desiring a pedal-assist bike for commuting.

...

I don't think they have any idea of what the hills are like around here - not miles long like you would find in the Rockies but very, very steep with no flat parts.

I'm hoping that pedelecs, ebikes (whatever) get more popular around here. We've got great bike trails (former railroad tracks) but the roads sure could be made more bike friendly.

DanEL,

Absolutely! I'm from Pittsburgh as well. The hills are the main reason I'm adding electric assist. They're also the reason I've purchased gears for the project. The secondary reason for an electric assist is to better maintain speed with the flow of traffic, since it's often necessary to take the lane around here.

I'm more than a little disappointed that an e-bike with gears may not be legal in Pennsylvania.

Anyway, here are some more Pittsburgh hills (just listing some above 20%).

37% Canton Avenue
32% Dornbush Street
29% Boustead Street
28% East Woodford Avenue
24% Rialto Street
23% Hampshire Avenue
22% Capital Avenue
22% Fallowfield Avenue
22% Potomac Avenue
21% Flatbush Avenue
21% Belasco Avenue
20% Walbridge Street
20% Dagmar Avenue

Dam ! The world is NOT flat after all.

[knoxie]

Hi Randy

Yes it is good going up a 20% grade using only that much power and yes your system is efficient nobody is denying that but most people don't need their bikes to do this? also the hub motor geared or not is far simpler than what you have done for people to add to their bikes.

Your concept is a good one Randy there is no doubt and maybe it would work as a mass production bike system if made properly again nobody would argue that however as an add on kit its a little more impractical and as most people don't need the sort of hill climbing ability that you need then there is a very limited market for a dual chain driven kit with an expensive hub, you may have the skills but most e-bikers are not as practical, like them or loathe them the simple hub motor even with all its inefficiency is a good all rounder?

10 million sold last year in China alone!!

You have been talking up this system for so long now we all know about it Randy and again yes its a good idea but your constant bragging just wears people down, when folks have spent 1000's of dollars on e-bike kit and come here for some friendly advice they dont need to be told they have bought a pile of shit when they havent? as they don't need motors to climb volcanoes.

Also Randy don't forget your bike in most countries would be illegal due to its output power, I doubt it would climb any better than any current geared alternative at 250-500W and again its illegal to use on the road around your volcanoes again not much Market for it in Hawaii. I cant see the Chinese changing their designs any time soon Randy.

I agree with you that gears are a better option for hill climbing than none geared systems, that's why I also use gears as well on my USPD and in the Puma, I haven't found a hill yet that I have slowed under 10mph and can climb using similar power to what you are using.

Its a shame Randy as maybe with a bit more diplomacy you may have been able to get your system off the ground properly a few years back but if you treated your business partners the same way you do the folks on this board I very much doubt you would get past the first meeting.

Leopard spots etc etc.

Knoxie

[EbikeMaui]

Also Randy don't forget your bike in most countries would be illegal due to its output power,Knoxie

...........................
So is any hub motor that is overvolted with out a limiter.The rest is only your opinion and others who are in deninal about hub motor use on hills.

[Lowell]

10 million hub motors sold? That's a lot of asses!

I think someone is just bitter that the world doesn't see ebikes his way. 10 million people must be wrong...

[Stevil_Knevil]

Ten million -and counting.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ride Bikes. Drive Culture. -S

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

I can see Randy 25 years from now in his rocking chair on his front porch, angrily waving his fist at kids passing by on their ebikes, "Don't you young whippersnaps know you're not hovering efficiently!! I have the world's most efficient ebike ever made locked up in my garage."

[Lowell]

I can see Randy 25 years from now in his rocking chair on his front porch, angrily waving his fist at kids passing by on their ebikes, "Don't you young whippersnaps know you're not hovering efficiently!! I have the world's most efficient ebike ever made locked up in my garage."

Hahahahah....

I rode into Vancouver tonight to drop off some paperwork to a tenant, and as I was climbing the lower section of Knight St. hill (8.0% grade, 82.5ft in 1025ft on the steepest section) at over 45mph I was thinking to myself "This hub motor sucks! I should have built a 5lb motor with gears so I can enjoy the scenery!"

Total climb of 308.4ft, and is the biggest hill I ever have to ride over without going out of my way. 47.8km travelled using 1420Wh, MaxS 86km/h, AvgS 39.7km/h. Damn traffic and red lights... still faster than driving a car in the city though!

[wren]

Wow, I didn't realize what I was stepping into. Anyway, this will be my first e-bike project. It's possible that a hub motor will meet my needs. Hub motors seem to work well for many people in many areas. I would love to hear from anyone who has used a hub motor in my area. I had originally considered a 406/409 and more recently an X5. I first started looking into an e-bike conversion in 2004. At the time, I exchanged some e-mails with Joshua Goldberg regarding the 406/409. Shortly there after, I was in an automobile accident that kept me off the street for two and a half years.

Honestly, I don't mind adding gears. I think it will be a fun project. I'm fortunate enough to have access to the university's shop. So, I'm in a position to machine motor mounts and the like. Also, I suspect that I'll get better performance and efficiency in this city. I could be wrong. I consider the area somewhat exceptional in this regard. Bicycling Magazine once rated Pittsburgh one of the worst cities for biking citing the hills and the lack of bicycle lanes. Also, I'm rolling the dice on this being more economical even outside of battery costs as I may avoid spending money twice: once to try a hub and then again to try gears.

I have no interest in bragging, and I'm certainly not knocking hub motors. Just having some fun, and hopefully transforming my bike into something that can serve as my primary form of transportation. Now, I'm actually quite serious about primary bicycle transportation, fun aside. My spine was damaged in 2004, and I find the seat of my recumbent to be considerably more comfortable than the seat of my car. I've come to loath driving. Spinning helps too as I cramp up if I sit still. Plus, I need to do a minimum of 30 minutes of solid pedaling daily for PT anyway.

Those are some pretty mean hills! What's the typical length?

Well, I'm most familiar with Rialto. The truly nasty section is just over 1/10th of a mile. However, it continues going up hill after that. Also, it's going to be hard to get a running start. In addition to the traffic light, the road jogs coming off the bridge at the base of the hill. The terrain is generally hilly even outside of the nasty sections. Still, some of the nasty sections are a must for me, such as Rialto.

What do you think, would a hub motor work here in a bike intended as a primary vehicle?

By-the-by, I now have a way to make the motor's gears legal in Pennsylvania. So, I haven't scrapped the plan just yet.

Anyway, I think I'll avoid the hub vs geared debate, but I'll happily absorb any input on the matter.

[Lowell]

If you want to climb steep hills slowly, gear reduction is a must, but unless you have multi gears or plenty of voltage, top speed will suffer.

Use the power/speed calculator to figure out how much power you need to go up your favorite grade at your desired speed, and then see how it matches up on the hub motor simulator. A 5304 in a 20" wheel would be a very good hill climber if you want simplicity.