The steepest hills

[Lowell]

Brake pads and rotors must sell really well there

[TylerDurden]

Holy crap... SF is an insane place for cyclists..

You should see the messengers.

[d]

Holy crap... SF is an insane place for cyclists..

You should see the messengers.

yup... the most popular bikes right now with the young crowd are fixed gear, single speed, brakeless bikes... i've got one myself and love it.

[TylerDurden]

"Back in the day" we called em track-bikes... but nobody rides em on the track anymore.

[Ypedal]

I can only imagine myself with one of those.. hit the first hill and start to slow down.. Grrr.. struggle.. slow down more.. Brrrtttt ( fart ) .. slow to a stop and fall over on my side..

[d]

here's a video some friends made of riding brakeless fixed-gears around the city...

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bBTioCLha7g" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed>

[Ypedal]

Nevermind going up hill.. i had not considered the other issue of going DOWN the hills with the pedals attached to the rear wheel.........

Don't that just fry the rear tire?

Sweet lord man... don't get a leg cramp at the wrong time...

[d]

it absolutly fries the rear tires... but the sweet thing is typically thats the -only- thing on the bike that wears out / needs to be replaced or adjusted from time to time.

[EbikeMaui]

When your hub motor or its controler burns up let us know if you would spend $1000. for somthing that will go the distance.

[d]

ebikemaui, why are you so negative all the time? i think most would agree with me when I say it gets old pretty quick.

[knoxie]

Ignore him D

He is just jealous of you as you have a better faster bike, you are 30 years younger you have a beautiful wife and you live in one of the most special places on earth!! jeez I am even jealous of that

Knoxie

[Lowell]

Randy is just bitter that hardly anyone really appreciates or cares about his ebike drivetrain, while hub motors sell by the container load. I for one would have more respect for Randy if he presented his ideas in well written posts, without trying to put down others.

Randy: No matter how skinny the rider, and how efficient the motor, your 1600W has no chance against an X5 hub motor with 6600W. That's great for you that it climbs mountains at 12mph, but don't expect flatlanders to think that's useful.

[EbikeMaui]

Randy is just bitter that hardly anyone really appreciates or cares about his ebike drivetrain, while hub motors sell by the container load. I for one would have more respect for Randy if he presented his ideas in well written posts, without trying to put down others.

Randy: No matter how skinny the rider, and how efficient the motor, your 1600W has no chance against an X5 hub motor with 6600W. That's great for you that it climbs mountains at 12mph, but don't expect flatlanders to think that's useful.

And what 6600 watt controller comes with the X5 ?

[eP]

Randy: No matter how skinny the rider, and how efficient the motor, your 1600W has no chance against an X5 hub motor with 6600W. That's great for you that it climbs mountains at 12mph, but don't expect flatlanders to think that's useful.

You are wrong Lowell.
It is not useful for you, but for most of bikers it is useful. The less power you need the more useful it is as you dont need spend a lot of money for powerful battery pack.

[Lowell]

Randy is just bitter that hardly anyone really appreciates or cares about his ebike drivetrain, while hub motors sell by the container load. I for one would have more respect for Randy if he presented his ideas in well written posts, without trying to put down others.

Randy: No matter how skinny the rider, and how efficient the motor, your 1600W has no chance against an X5 hub motor with 6600W. That's great for you that it climbs mountains at 12mph, but don't expect flatlanders to think that's useful.

And what 6600 watt controller comes with the X5 ?

An off the shelf Crystalyte, modified with IRFB4110 MOSFETs. Total cost less than $200 plus a soldering iron if you don't already own one.

[Lowell]

Randy: No matter how skinny the rider, and how efficient the motor, your 1600W has no chance against an X5 hub motor with 6600W. That's great for you that it climbs mountains at 12mph, but don't expect flatlanders to think that's useful.

You are wrong Lowell.
It is not useful for you, but for most of bikers it is useful. The less power you need the more useful it is as you dont need spend a lot of money for powerful battery pack.

Where will the average person buy this kit that doesn't exist? If there was such a demand for dual chain gear reduced ebikes, someone would be building kits to take peoples money.

So there is either not enough demand, or it's too complex and expensive to build and not profitable. The fact that the copyright holder ( ) has never put any ebike products into mass production pretty much sums up the commercial viability of the idea.

[TylerDurden]

It is probably fair to say the ebike industry is young, but growing fast (china = 10M/yr.!).

It is impossible to predict where/when a population will embrace innovations, and where those innovations will originate and thrive.

But, like somebody said here earlier: there is still room for improvement.

Poland, Maui, Canada, Beijing, California... good ideas come from everywhere.


We will make some fine bikes, and have a shitload of fun too!

[fechter]

Yes, and blow things up in the process.

[EbikeMaui]

Yes many Ideas have came and gone.Some ebik manufactures have gone to the extream thinking running a X-lyte would be efficient using it as a mid mount drive using chains first to reduce the ratio to direct drive the crank then to gear the oppisite way to make the wheel go faster with a $1200. Rohloff geard hub.
When for 1/2 the total price a single speed E-tech brushless motor would have done the job much better using only 1 speed with less parts, Costs, and weighing the same as just the hub motor.
For simplicity a home builder would only need to make a motor mount and battery mounts.To be able to use a motor system that will be reliable in the uses that most hub motor controllers are at the verge of blowing or they are blowing.
As I mentioned Years ago.Most if not all manufactured ebike kits or complete ebikes are not designed or rated for much over 500 watts of contionus power and either are any off the shelf BLDC controllers. Except for the examples I have given you that indeed cost less with up to 20 times more PROGRAMABLE power than the leading ebike kits available.At LESS TOTAL WEIGHT!
The bottom line is when Li-po batteries become popular who wants a inefficient motor/controller that has a hard time climbing hills at a decent speed or pops controllers overvolting them to go fast. Or burns up there new expensive lithium pack because people don't relize that there system is using half there battery energy in pure heat ?
Yes the lead acid days will be around for these heavy inefficient hub motors that need pedaling to start off and to climb hills But there days are limited like the range of there trips are. Reliability has always been a ebike problem unless you build it yourself with quality components.Or just except the facts that you need to pedal most of the time. Blow a few controllers if you don't and limit your range to 10 miles on a heavy ebike. The guys going 45 mph on X-lytes may tell you different but they will always be crossing there fingers when they ride.
Quality Motor/Controllers are NOT made by ANY ebike companies.They only provide the minimal cost systems to make a HUGE profit.Which usually means go SLOW or pedal hard or both if you want the fewest problems.

[knoxie]

Hi

Again Randy I have to agree with much of that, you pays your money you get what you pay for, the Chinese stuff is not a patch on the Sevcon and the Chinese stuff is only deigned for low power really, some of us are taking them to their limits to see what can be done with them and I dont doubt that a lot of people will be crossing their fingers as the controllers and the batteries and everything are so much more vulnerable on kit that isnt really designed well enough to cope.

The lipos are cheap but need improvement if you want to get good cycle life and better reliability and as you also suggested we are in contact with the battery and controller suppliers to get a lot of the shortcomings fixed in the motors and controllers and the batteries, we cant do this until we play with the stuff and make it smoke to see what needs fixing, its hard to change the Chinese way of doing things and quality control is always an issue.

I like trying all different kinds of systems and taking them to the limit then backing them down a little and using them, has been working well for me so far and I have fixed a lot of the short comings on the controller and have it running well and reliable, I think I can sort out a lot of the BMS problems between Mark and the lipo supplier.

If we lean on the Chinese enough they will pick up the quality and realise they cant cut corners as it wont wash with folks in the west esp when they stand next to the sort of quality that is made in the west, thats not to say all the Chinese stuff is substandard far from it and infact its the e-bike industry that is probably at the lower end quality wise.

We will all keep frying this stuff until we find what works

Later

Knoxie

[EbikeMaui]

Hi

Again Randy I have to agree with much of that, you pays your money you get what you pay for, the Chinese stuff is not a patch on the Sevcon and the Chinese stuff is only deigned for low power really, some of us are taking them to their limits to see what can be done with them and I dont doubt that a lot of people will be crossing their fingers as the controllers and the batteries and everything are so much more vulnerable on kit that isnt really designed well enough to cope.

The lipos are cheap but need improvement if you want to get good cycle life and better reliability and as you also suggested we are in contact with the battery and controller suppliers to get a lot of the shortcomings fixed in the motors and controllers and the batteries, we cant do this until we play with the stuff and make it smoke to see what needs fixing, its hard to change the Chinese way of doing things and quality control is always an issue.

I like trying all different kinds of systems and taking them to the limit then backing them down a little and using them, has been working well for me so far and I have fixed a lot of the short comings on the controller and have it running well and reliable, I think I can sort out a lot of the BMS problems between Mark and the lipo supplier.

If we lean on the Chinese enough they will pick up the quality and realise they cant cut corners as it wont wash with folks in the west esp when they stand next to the sort of quality that is made in the west, thats not to say all the Chinese stuff is substandard far from it and infact its the e-bike industry that is probably at the lower end quality wise.

We will all keep frying this stuff until we find what works

Later

Knoxie

Before Currie came out with the USPD I already had reliable quality components made cost effectivly.You will not find ANY in production on Ebikes. Yet and mabe never! using what is already on some ebikes would be much harder because they are NOT designd to take much more without major modifications.
What works great! is great motor/controllers made by Great designers designing for the job required. All else is secondary.

[EbikeMaui]

A single speed chain drive works best and is less weight for the power and efficiency compared to Any hub motor to date.Sprocket ratio changes for any conditions are eaisier than getting a new motor.
A efficient high torque 1000 watt motor helps.So does knowing how to make a motor bracket.

[TylerDurden]

Wow... that's clean.

No bearing on the fan-end?

[EbikeMaui]

Wow... that's clean.

No bearing on the fan-end?

Nope, but two beefy 40 mm X 17 mm bearings on the other side preloaded with the sprocket or a nut or both.I personaly would use that fan for the rotor

[EbikeMaui]

Randy is just bitter that hardly anyone really appreciates or cares about his ebike drivetrain, while hub motors sell by the container load. I for one would have more respect for Randy if he presented his ideas in well written posts, without trying to put down others.

Randy: No matter how skinny the rider, and how efficient the motor, your 1600W has no chance against an X5 hub motor with 6600W. That's great for you that it climbs mountains at 12mph, but don't expect flatlanders to think that's useful.

And what 6600 watt controller comes with the X5 ?

An off the shelf Crystalyte, modified with IRFB4110 MOSFETs. Total cost less than $200 plus a soldering iron if you don't already own one.

sO WHAT off the shelf controller comes with the X-5 and what are the specs? Most people don't want to void there warenty Or know how to solder circuit boards.