First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

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First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby hi-powercycles » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:41 pm

Hello All,
This is a copy of my original post from Photos/Videos-

For anyone interested, here is our first test of the 1000W black lightning geared brushless hub motor. This motor has many advantages over comparable motors such as the big Crystalyte X5. First of all, it has amazing torque for its high speed capabilities (40MPH at 48V)... It climbs just as well (if not better) as my personal Xlyte 5404, and at the same time is faster than the 5303 by quite a bit. Here is the biggest advantage: Motor weight. The motor itself is only 9 lbs which is a full 15 lbs lighter than the Xlyte 5 series. This allows you to mount the system to a true mountain bike and use it like it was meant to be used! The 1000W features an upgraded gear assembly and a one way clutch that can withstand up to 3x the power of our current motors. Production units have been finalized and first shipments will go out to customers in 2 weeks! Watch the video to see Jake Carter of San Luis Rides test ride it for the first time! Happy E-biking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oLQdXw9K_M :D
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby morph999 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:08 pm

Lets see a speed test between 5303 and the 1000w BMC both with 48v. Are you scared?
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby knightmb » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:12 pm

I like how stealth the motor is, very small and compact. I missed the other topic you had about it, but looks nice.

Is 1000W the maximum "safe" power or can you pump more into it for some wheelie fun? Can you reduce the amps and pumps more volts in for top speed vs acceleration?
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby snowranger » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:00 am

What amps did you need for 40 mph at 48 volts?
Electric: 400 watt BMC Hub Motor w/disc brake/Infineon 48V 30A controller/Dead 48V 20Ah Ping replaced with Headway 48V20ah
Bike : Generic mountain with xtracycle long tail
Accessories: homemade led lighting, 48V horn
Miles: 13,000 miles, 8,000 on the headway and counting.
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby recumbent » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:27 am

Wow, almost silent to boot, nice motor.
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Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby hi-powercycles » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:13 am

Bring on the Crystalyte 5303! I know first hand it will not break 40 MPH!!! Amps at 38 MPH leveled off to about 36A. Controller was putting out a maximum of 46A under acceleration. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 5303 will go 37-38 MPH on 48V. The production version of this motor should be between 40-42 MPH. When the production units come in about 2 weeks, I can verify this!
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby dogman » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:34 am

Very interesting. So that is a gear motor? I had gotten the impression that the 1000 watt was going to be a direct drive motor.

What about heat? One of the rareley mentioned virtues of the clyte 530x is it huge mass can soak up and radiate away some serious btu's. Is that much power in that small a package going to melt down, is it just designed for "normal" climates? To be of use in the real world, it needs to be able to climb a big hill in 100 F weather.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.

See the frankenbike longtail at the thread below.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28389&hilit=bouncing+betty
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby wanders » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:10 am

dogman wrote:Very interesting. So that is a gear motor? I had gotten the impression that the 1000 watt was going to be a direct drive motor.


Dogman, my understanding is that there are two motors from BMC in this "generation" of motors. There is a direct drive version and one (evidently) is geared. To make things a bit more complex, they have identical cases. Perhaps hi-powercycles can elaborate. I presume he can, since the first motor that he sold on eBay as a "Black Lightning" was direct drive.

So, hi-powercycles, what is up with the two "Black Lightnings"? Why did you change your mind on the one that you were going to sell?
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby snowranger » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:51 am

Is this the same motor LeamCorp bought?

Guess that this is too much motor for my 48V20ah Ping?
Electric: 400 watt BMC Hub Motor w/disc brake/Infineon 48V 30A controller/Dead 48V 20Ah Ping replaced with Headway 48V20ah
Bike : Generic mountain with xtracycle long tail
Accessories: homemade led lighting, 48V horn
Miles: 13,000 miles, 8,000 on the headway and counting.
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby dogman » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:46 am

Ok, I thought I had heard of a DD black lightning. Maybe it's no longer offered? This is an interesting motor, though I doubt I can afford it. Sounds perfect for the dirt oriented crowd.

As for running it on a ping, it is pretty high amps, but it does sound like the spikes are lower, so It might at least have less issues with high amp spikes causing cutouts. As for cycle life, that experiment is still in progress. Refering back to the heat issue, maybe something in a 10 ah headway would be ideal, since it would reach lvc before the motor ran too long in one ride.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.

See the frankenbike longtail at the thread below.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28389&hilit=bouncing+betty
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby Lapwing » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:57 am

Looked at your u-tube videos on performance vs. Crystalyte X5 & 5404

Looks like a nice motor, but seen as rider weight is the single biggest performance hit on an e-bike climbing, how about a weigh in ?

Alternative would be a "swop the rider & do-over". :? Just a bit of fairness.
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby WonderProfessor » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:59 am

lvc = low voltage cutoff?

living vicariously carefully
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby dogman » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:06 am

yeah, low voltage cutoff, for those not familiar with bms on lifepo4 yet. One reason I have issues with heat is I live in the desert, the other is a pingbattery 20 ah will ride a long time nonstop, on motors designed when the best batteries went less than 10 miles. So when you ride 25 miles nonstop, it gets a tad warm.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.

See the frankenbike longtail at the thread below.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28389&hilit=bouncing+betty
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby hi-powercycles » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:44 pm

Hello,
Heat build up is no problem for up to 3000W or so- more if you use 10g wires at the shaft. If you plan on loading 9000W like a certain member on this forum is using, I would definately go for the much larger crystalyte!!! We are going to have 2 versions of this motor, the first available in production is the geared motor, later on a gearless version will follow. The gearless version is going to take more work to fine tune to the specs needed... Have a great day everyone!
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby knightmb » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:06 pm

hi-powercycles wrote:Hello,
Heat build up is no problem for up to 3000W or so- more if you use 10g wires at the shaft. If you plan on loading 9000W like a certain member on this forum is using, I would definately go for the much larger crystalyte!!! We are going to have 2 versions of this motor, the first available in production is the geared motor, later on a gearless version will follow. The gearless version is going to take more work to fine tune to the specs needed... Have a great day everyone!

Do you plan on loaning any out for independent, non-bias review :wink:
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby dogman » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:16 pm

Heh Heh , bet I can melt one, in an unbiased test of course, the desert weather doesn't care who you are in June. I talk about heat because my commute home is 15 miles uphill, and when it's 105, that is a test for any motor. But in moderate weather, I see the heat being an issue when people take this motor to the mountains and ride up some pretty steep hills so they can do a DH ride back down. Seriously, if you ride most hub motors up a hill non stop for say, 45 minuites, it will get pretty dang hot! This was not such an issue when we were stuck with 30 minuite ride time batteries, but my ping will go for about an hour and a half. I would love to test one of these motors, but I don't have a battery that could hack it at this time.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.

See the frankenbike longtail at the thread below.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28389&hilit=bouncing+betty
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby Drunkskunk » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:08 am

Yeah, I vote for Dogman as your independant testor. If he can't kill it in the desert heat this summer, I might order one myself in the fall.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby morph999 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:02 pm

yes, I would like a speed run done if possible using the same rider for both the 1000w bmc and a 5303. That would be really interesting.
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby morph999 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:06 pm

dogman wrote:Heh Heh , bet I can melt one, in an unbiased test of course, the desert weather doesn't care who you are in June. I talk about heat because my commute home is 15 miles uphill, and when it's 105, that is a test for any motor. But in moderate weather, I see the heat being an issue when people take this motor to the mountains and ride up some pretty steep hills so they can do a DH ride back down. Seriously, if you ride most hub motors up a hill non stop for say, 45 minuites, it will get pretty dang hot! This was not such an issue when we were stuck with 30 minuite ride time batteries, but my ping will go for about an hour and a half. I would love to test one of these motors, but I don't have a battery that could hack it at this time.


Dogman, it gets pretty hot here in the midwest USA as well. How is it riding on an e-bike in the heat, does the wind keep you relatively cool or do you sweat your balls off? Lets assume that you do no pedaling at all.
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby dogman » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:25 pm

Oddly I find riding the ebike in 105 heat to be suprisingly cool. I wear the lycra togs by then and it does feel a bit like you are riding naked. If you get into a car that is say, 140 F inside, by the time the AC gets really working, you are nearly home. When I leave work, I've been shoveling or painting or something outside all day, so I don't get any shock from going out into the heat. I thought I would mind the heat more, but it turns out I can stand a lot more than a brushed hub motor. This summer, I'll try to melt down an aotema brushless.
THE LIPO RULES. NEVER ABOVE 4.3V NEVER BELOW 2.7V DON'T PUNCTURE

Ideal charging /discharging range for Lipo, 3.65v minimum 4.1v maximum

See battery technology section, FAQ thread at the top of the page for lipo noob info.

See the frankenbike longtail at the thread below.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28389&hilit=bouncing+betty
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby dazzassj6 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:42 am

awwwwww i want this motor!

What is the expected price for this motor????


i think BMC has did it. They have created the best hub motor in the world!
Project 1: 48v 500w Golden motor upgrade on Express Green E wheels upgraded to 48v 10ah Ping battery Flat speed: 44km/hr Pedal assist: 49.9km/hr Uphill speed: 40km/hr

Project 2: A female Kmart mountain bike 26" wheels mounted with a 500w cyclone with a 24v 20ah 13C Lifepo4. Flat speed 30km/hr pedal: 35km/h

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6669
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby leamcorp » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:29 pm

Hmmm. I like to see that independent test also and not rely on "vendor" optimism.

On my last test with 18650 48v pack with Infinion 25amp controller - the max speed was 26mph. I weighted 205 at that time.

According to Hi-power, it was my controller and my battery.

Well I finally built my A123 pack 16s 7p that could put out 200+amps. I also changed my controller to Crystalyte 24-72v 40amp.

Oh, I've also lost 25lb - so now I weight 180-185lb. Conclusion is - i haven't seen 35mph yet. With 3504, I have. The max amp I've seen spiking is over 80+ amps.

Also, this motor doesn't have any starting torque. You actually have to pedal to help along when start or it makes horrible sounds. This is with over 50amps being pulled!!! Once started - the power comes along fine. This motor is now my back up and I'll be using 5304 as main motor - heavy or not.

Edit - one other thing. This motor is not Geared and doesn't freewheel like BMC 400 or Bafang, which I also have. Its bit smoother than crystalyte but not more than WE BL36. There's definitely a drag (about 3-4 turns if you spin with manually).
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby snowranger » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:13 pm

Sounds like you got a different motor from what's out there now.
Electric: 400 watt BMC Hub Motor w/disc brake/Infineon 48V 30A controller/Dead 48V 20Ah Ping replaced with Headway 48V20ah
Bike : Generic mountain with xtracycle long tail
Accessories: homemade led lighting, 48V horn
Miles: 13,000 miles, 8,000 on the headway and counting.
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby leamcorp » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:32 am

snowranger wrote:Sounds like you got a different motor from what's out there now.


It was a "prototype" black lightning Direct Drive model (a 2nd one of the two that was mentioned). A similar claim was made then too. It must be me as I can't reproduce those result... even with quite capable setup since my last test. I say send a free one to Dr. Bass for extreme testing - including 72v high amp torture test over 90 degree temp environment :)
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Re: First Test 1000W Black Lightning Brushless, Geared hub motor

Postby oatnet » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:43 am

Any updates on the production release of this geared version?
BTW, does it have the single steel gear?

-JD
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