E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

actionobject said:

Dimension HELP please!

Does anyone know the difference in the measurement from the head tube to the seat tube between the bomber and fighter?

And the difference of the height of the top of seat tube and top of head tube.

Cheers Everyone!

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On my Bomber with the seat down all the way, it slightly lower than the top of the head. How high above the head it will go just depends of how long your seat post is.

There's about 23 inches between the head, and the frame seat tube

Mine is about 2 feet..

I apologise.

I use my own Bomber almost exclusively offroad (plus a a paddock bike for racing) and I've always looked at owners that use them for commuting or road riding as a bit of a 'waste' of the bike. I am wrong.

We had a customers bike in for work, we didnt sell it but the Stealth warranty is pretty good and we got it in to diagnose and sort an issue that it was and they were keen to make sure the owner was looked after. As part of the fix I wanted to test the bike in the same way the owner rode it (just in case there was something specific about his use) and as he used it purely for the road, no pedalling at all, purely used as an electric bike with no human assistance, I did the same test.

I've got to say what an enjoyable time on a bike, I happily sped about, average 20-25mph for an hour or so around the country roads round me and really do understand now why people use these just for the road, its a pleasant way to get from A to B.

I still maintain that these are offroad bikes but I now do 'get' how they are used a road bike, just great fun.

I love riding my Bomber on the street. Where a Bomber has an big advantage over a typical street bike, is it being an electric bicycle, I can ride it on city bike trails, and in Texas it's legal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk too. The combination of being able to ride on the street at traffic speeds, city bicycle trails, and sidewalks makes for a different kind of vehicle. Something never before experienced. Of course this is only possible by exercising responsible behavior, appropriate for the location you're riding in. It really feels like freedom. In over 50 years of riding, this is the most satisfying bike to ride around on I've ever owned.

Where ever I ride, people want to ask about my bike. There's a feeling I get from talking to them that they know they're looking at their future, now. Especially the Harley guys. They have a concerned look, that maybe someone will take away their beloved combustion engines from them, but at the same time they have a kind of fascination about what riding an electric is really like. I always tell them, you're going to love the future.

Okay 2 motors have died on me now. Any thoughts on 5403/5404 vs The Crown Crystalyte motor? Are they pretty much in the same class?

proper159 said:

Okay 2 motors have died on me now. Any thoughts on 5403/5404 vs The Crown Crystalyte motor? Are they pretty much in the same class?

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How did the first two die? If cooked, then I'm wondering if the third might die the same way.

Oil cooling = unreal. Transfers so much stator heat to the outer casing. If you're on/off throttle it works great!

Emmett said:

proper159 said:

Okay 2 motors have died on me now. Any thoughts on 5403/5404 vs The Crown Crystalyte motor? Are they pretty much in the same class?

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How did the first two die? If cooked, then I'm wondering if the third might die the same way.

Oil cooling = unreal. Transfers so much stator heat to the outer casing. If you're on/off throttle it works great!

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Salt corrosion and additional water damage. Stock 5403 and 5404 (which took a severe beating riding daily all winter in Canada). I'm looking at a guy who can bring them back to life after an ebike mechanic of mine was trying to get the magnets to respond properly. Stock 5403 was from condensation and not riding it that much, left it in my mom's garage for 8 months.

OK I see. Corrosion was the problem. Not cooked.

Well as you know, with a sealed hub and oil inside ... no corrosion!

BTW, I use castor oil. So no odour like ATF, when it weeps out the 1mm breather hole near the sprocket. It never leaks out the axles after you install sealed bearings. Castor oil thickens after being heated enough. So I replace it every 30 rides or there about.

Some guys on ES commented that with oil in the hub they found oil worked its way along the metal inside the phase wire insulation. So whats the issue? That sounds like an advantage to me. I often ride over creeks and all sorts of mud, so regularly and carefully unplug blow clean and re-oil my wiring loom connectors.

I don't understand why more guys are not converting to a sealed hub with 110 to 120ml of oil in it. Leaking can be solved. No corrosion. Great stator cooling. Originally I couldn't even ride for 45 minutes without overheating a stock hub with air in it. Now it's complete non-issue. Just ride as hard as I want.

Emmett said:

OK I see. Corrosion was the problem. Not cooked.

Well as you know, with a sealed hub and oil inside ... no corrosion!

BTW, I use castor oil. So no odour like ATF, when it weeps out the 1mm breather hole near the sprocket. It never leaks out the axles after you install sealed bearings. Castor oil thickens after being heated enough. So I replace it every 30 rides or there about.

Some guys on ES commented that with oil in the hub they found oil worked its way along the metal inside the phase wire insulation. So whats the issue? That sounds like an advantage to me. I often ride over creeks and all sorts of mud, so regularly and carefully unplug blow clean and re-oil my wiring loom connectors.

I don't understand why more guys are not converting to a sealed hub with 110 to 120ml of oil in it. Leaking can be solved. No corrosion. Great stator cooling. Originally I couldn't even ride for 45 minutes without overheating a stock hub with air in it. Now it's complete non-issue. Just ride as hard as I want.

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That's really interesting. I've been trying to figure out a solution for the climate that my friend and I ride in. Where are you based? In Oz? The salt on the roads here during the colder months (which is 6 months straight) finds it's way into everything. I found this motor simulation here: http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html and I'm trying to figure out if the Crown motor has similar properties to the 5403 (they don't have the 5404 to compare). Looks like the Clyte TC3080 is the higher torqued motor similar to the 5404 and the TC40100 is the Crown similar to stock 5403 based on the comparison graph.

I basically need my Stealth to work without a hitch for 3 weeks straight (and I dream, more than 3 weeks). It has broken and failed me within 3 weeks since I bought it brand new in October 2013. I nearly died three times when the seat broke twice (the third time was on the trails but in the dead of winter -30c) and the axle split going 70 km/hr). The same stuff happens to my friend's bomber from the same era. He's an ebike mechanic so he knows what he's doing and is an expert rider in my opinion. I used to worry about tons of other riders riding Stealths like mad men throughout my city, but no one would be foolish enough to invest this much money into a bike that cannot handle our environment. In fact, I don't think there is any bike that can handle 70 to 200 km per day 6 days a week. My Mando Footloose has failed me 5 times, but at least I can go to a coffee shop and plug in to reset the BMS or jump on a bus to get home.

Literally, there is no other solution than my ebikes because we now have the Pan Am games for the next 7 weeks and traffic is 3 times worse. My mother is terminally Ill and the only way I can get to her 35 to 60 km away is to ride my Stealth or combine my Mando with an airport bus. Driving and taking transit is 2 to 3.5 hours one way. Stealth = 47 mins to 1.3 hours depending on 35 or 60 km direct routes to two separate locations. My wife drives her car to work and we live in a condo with only one permitted parking spot, so two cars is out of the question.

Sorry to hear about your mum and commute woes.

I'm on the outskirts of Sydney. I live near lots of bush, own a big car, and can park it in my garage out on the wide street anywhere that feels good. I'm ashamed to confess we get upset just because someone parks on the public street near our house.

I ride my Fighter about 12 times per month, over off-road trails, often quite rough. 90% of the year, the air temp is between 15 and 25C. My main traffic concern is little roos. They are everywhere. Also some goannas, and some bush turkeys plus other riders and walkers. They are all well behaved and I slow down lots for them. Well not so much the roos. The bike cops a beating, but I've never broken anything major/structural on it. Actually I did buckle and bend the stock MTB rear wheel after too many big impacts. I have my seat post shortened and set the seat height quite low, because I stand a lot and when I sit I need to be low. A high seat is dangerous for offroad anyway. High seats look dorky too. Just my opinion. But I'm only 5'9" I'm lucky for anything involving bikes.

I don't know about those motors you are considering. Much the same I think. Just pump more power through them if you need it. I have a H4065 which works very well at 15 to 45km/h. I have a new H4040 for lower speed trials type riding since there is so much of that where I ride. Got the sealed bearings in it, but I've not yet got around to lacing it into a 19x1.6 MC rim I have ready for it.

A sealed hub with oil in it seems like a no brainer decision for you. But beware you do need some mechanical skills. eg. Drilling and tapping the fill and drain plugs. Replacing the bearings with full sealed items. Assembling with sikaflex on the side cover flanges. Nothing real difficult, but certainly very easy to botch something up.

Emmett said:

Sorry to hear about your mum and commute woes.

A sealed hub with oil in it seems like a no brainer decision for you. But beware you do need some mechanical skills. eg. Drilling and tapping the fill and drain plugs. Replacing the bearings with full sealed items. Assembling with sikaflex on the side cover flanges. Nothing real difficult, but certainly very easy to botch something up.

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Ah thanks, yep I wish Canada had a climate like Oz, but then the world would be in complete chaos I'll figure out how to do what you've done with my friend who has all of the necessary tools...I'll also make him do it on his motor first lol.

Emmett said:

I have a new H4040 for lower speed trials type riding since there is so much of that where I ride. Got the sealed bearings in it, but I've not yet got around to lacing it into a 19x1.6 MC rim I have ready for it.

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Let us know if it's a real HS4040. I had thought there was no such thing and some sellers just list the HS4065 as HS4040 because of a difference in interpretation of the voltage specifications.

Cheers

Here is Crystalyte's "official" speed ratings based on volts for their respective motors cut and pasted from their website.

Crystalyte Materials Index
1
H35 F
Crystalyte H3525,H3540,H3548 front wheel motor / Speed base on 36V
2
H35 Motor R
Crystalyte H3525,H3540,H3548 rear wheel motor / Speed base on 36V
3
H40 Motor R
Crystalyte H4065,H4080,H40100 Motor Rear / Speed base on 72V
4
H25 Motor F
Crystalyte H2225,H2240,H2248 front wheel / Speed base on 36V
5
TC Motor R
Crystalyte TC65, TC80,TC100 Motor Rear wheel/Speed base on 72V + 12G Spokes for TC motor
6
G Motor F
Crystalyte G40,G30 front wheel motor / Speed base on 36V
7
G Motor R
Crystalyte G40,G30 Rear wheel motor design for 8speed cassette / Speed base on 36V
8
G-Hub
Free hub for G rear wheel motor
9
SAW Motor F
SAW406, SAW408, SAW4012 Motor Front wheel / Speed base on 36V
10
SAW Motor R
SAW406, SAW408, SAW4012 Motor Rear wheel / Speed base on 36V
11
NSM 209 F
NSM 209 Motor Front wheel for Brompton / Speed base on 36V
12
5400 Motor R
5403 rear wheel motor, Motor dropout :150mm or 162mm / Speed base on 72V

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Thanks Rix.

That's what I thought...no HS4040.
I think some shopfronts sell the HS4065 as a HS4040 cause they measure it on 48V not 72V.

Emmett, have you actually spun up the motor yet?
You might have just bought yourself a spare of the same winding.

Cheers

Cowardlyduck said:

Thanks Rix.

That's what I thought...no HS4040.
I think some shopfronts sell the HS4065 as a HS4040 cause they measure it on 48V not 72V.

Emmett, have you actually spun up the motor yet?
You might have just bought yourself a spare of the same winding.

Cheers

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Yah CD, those are the official numbers, that said, I know of a certain ebike company here in the US that orders custom wound motors from Crystalyte, and calls them what ever they want based on there own custom battery packs. I have seen a "4065" from them based on 98 volts . I can't confirm this, but I think its a standard H4065 with an extra turn wind on the stator.

So here is a response from a few of my questions regarding the Crown vs 5403/5404, (I thought because the crown is rated at 1000 to 2000 w that it was significantly less powerful than the 5403:

"Nominal wattage means nothing. Other people call the much smaller H series crystalyte motors as 3000 watts. That's why I sent you the link to the simulator, which shows the actual output power with any range of controllers, battery voltages, and winding types. We won't bring in the 54XX because you have much more mass for no extra torque or power output, the only thing you get from the heavier motor weight is more heat capacity so it takes longer for things to overheat if you do overload it.

The TC4080 is comparable to he 5404, while the TC4010 is more like the 5403. If you are running at 72V or more then you definitely want the slower TC4080 winding."

So what should I get guys? Stick with 5403 with a 19 inch MX set up? Or go Crown on an 19 inch MX setup as well?

Has anyone got insurance for there Bomber or do u use house insurance?
thx
steve

ps waiting for my Hookworms to arrive today!!!

proper159 said:

So here is a response from a few of my questions regarding the Crown vs 5403/5404, (I thought because the crown is rated at 1000 to 2000 w that it was significantly less powerful than the 5403:

"Nominal wattage means nothing. Other people call the much smaller H series crystalyte motors as 3000 watts. That's why I sent you the link to the simulator, which shows the actual output power with any range of controllers, battery voltages, and winding types. We won't bring in the 54XX because you have much more mass for no extra torque or power output, the only thing you get from the heavier motor weight is more heat capacity so it takes longer for things to overheat if you do overload it.

The TC4080 is comparable to he 5404, while the TC4010 is more like the 5403. If you are running at 72V or more then you definitely want the slower TC4080 winding."

So what should I get guys? Stick with 5403 with a 19 inch MX set up? Or go Crown on an 19 inch MX setup as well?

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Whatever route you go, either vent or oil cool your hub and yes a small 19x1.4 or 19x1.6 motor rim, or even an 18x1.4 motor rim like the one I run on the Fighter is way better than a MTB tire on the rear.

Hi guys,
Hopefully I'll be a B-52 owner very soon.
Could you guys help with a couple easy questions?
I am looking at whether to get a 2014 (4500W) one or a 2015 (5200W) for a LOT more money.
1. Is there a noticeable difference on torque/speed?
2. I know the 5200W display is bigger but does it do much more?
3. Is the motor the same (other than they added a thermal sensor)?
4. Is the speed control the same?
Any other differences I should know about but am not asking?
I really appreciate you guys' input.
I would probably upgrade some things over time but don't want to be limited by something that can't be upgraded easily without a lot of $.
Erik

Cowardlyduck said:

Emmett, have you actually spun up the motor yet?
You might have just bought yourself a spare of the same winding.

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No I've not spun it up yet. I knew it might be a H4065 before I bought it. That would be fine. I think it is a H4040. Shall find out later this year.

Jetdryvr said:

Hi guys,
Hopefully I'll be a B-52 owner very soon.
Could you guys help with a couple easy questions?
I am looking at whether to get a 2014 (4500W) one or a 2015 (5200W) for a LOT more money.
1. Is there a noticeable difference on torque/speed?
2. I know the 5200W display is bigger but does it do much more?
3. Is the motor the same (other than they added a thermal sensor)?
4. Is the speed control the same?
Any other differences I should know about but am not asking?
I really appreciate you guys' input.
I would probably upgrade some things over time but don't want to be limited by something that can't be upgraded easily without a lot of $.
Erik

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That's a tough one Jet. Here is my take for what its worth, get the 2014. I say this because if you get bit by the Stealth Ebike bug like most of us have been, you are going to want to modify your bike down the road whether its a 2014 with the CA putting down 4.5kw or the 2015 with the DC1 putting down 5.2kw. The DC1 Stealth now uses is better and more user friendly then the CA. It modulates DC input into the controller correctively quicker and more precise than the CA. I don't know how it compares to the CA V3, but this is the case with the CA V2. If you are a tinkerer, you will like the CA better than the DC1. CA settings can be accessed through menus and advanced menus where as the DC1, can be if you know how to :wink: but it will void any warranties and the diagnostic screen will show that as well.

Fix,
Thanks for the reply.
I probably could have found a better place to ask the questions.
I suppose the AC and DC etc are the older and newer displays.
Do you know if the motors are the same?
Speed control the same?
Thanks again,
Erik

Jetdryvr said:

Fix,
Thanks for the reply.
I probably could have found a better place to ask the questions.
I suppose the AC and DC etc are the older and newer displays.
Do you know if the motors are the same?
Speed control the same?
Thanks again,
Erik

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For 2014 and 2015, both motors and controllers are identical. Top speed should be the same, the 5.2kw Bomber should get there just a hair quicker than the 4.5kw Bomber, all else being the same of course with rider weight, wind conditions, temperature. Whether you go with the 2014, or the 2015, you cant go wrong.

Jetdryvr said:

Fix,
Thanks for the reply.
I probably could have found a better place to ask the questions.

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I don't think so...Rick (Fix) is undoubtedly the best man to answer these questions...he's owned both CA type and DC1 type...and the difference between them is pretty interesting! I think the thermal rollback is a great new feature...not to mention the absolutely incredible new packs...minuscule sag and deep reserves but either one's the best choice for different reasons...the older model being obviously excellent value for money.

Jetdryvr said:

Hi guys,
Hopefully I'll be a B-52 owner very soon.
Could you guys help with a couple easy questions?
I am looking at whether to get a 2014 (4500W) one or a 2015 (5200W) for a LOT more money.
1. Is there a noticeable difference on torque/speed?
2. I know the 5200W display is bigger but does it do much more?
3. Is the motor the same (other than they added a thermal sensor)?
4. Is the speed control the same?
Any other differences I should know about but am not asking?
I really appreciate you guys' input.
I would probably upgrade some things over time but don't want to be limited by something that can't be upgraded easily without a lot of $.
Erik

Click to expand...

buy the cheapest and modify to adaptto 12Kw in the future :lol: :lol: