Mark W Mark2 build/butcher thread

Mark_A_W

100 kW
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
1,493
Location
Sunny Melbourne Australia
Well I picked up my new (to me) XC dually - a Jamis Dakar XC Comp.

I wanted a dually but not a downhill one - unlike some of you guys I still want to pedal :oops:

Gees it's a nice bike to ride, really light and nimble - now I don't want to stuff the handling *too* much, say by adding a 3 or 4kg wheel and 4kgs of battery...oh well..

So I have my nominal 250w front hub motor from my old bike.

I was planning to:

- Machine holes in side plate of motor to fit 203mm disc. And machine/buy adapter for the caliper. (Or buy a new side plate if I can.) A 203 mm disc will clear the motor. I'll need to keep the bolts near the centre of the disc to let it flex as the brake actuates - they only move on one side.

- Weld up torque bars from Brett onto stiffening "sheaths" on the lower legs of the Triple Clamp forks. Sheaths are clamped to the fork leg with hose clampts, and with preload holding the motor against the rear of the dropout. I don't want to stuff the stock Mantitou Black Elite forks and I don't like the way the Staunchions fit into the crown anyway- they've gone for light weight.

- Either keep going with battery in backpack (handles better) or go with a Beam rack mount at the rear, really close to the seat, and as low as possible to clear the rear wheel as it moves. Unfortunately the battery won't fit in the frame triangle.

- I also picked up a heavy duty Pivot dual wall 36 spoke rim for $10. To fit to the motor some day - no more bent rims for me :evil:

But some advice please? Should I stick with a front hub motor? Go rear (but I'd need to fit a nine gear cluster and a disc...)?

Cheers

Mark
 

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What's the peak power you think you're ever likely to run through the motor? If less than 500w, front torque arms may be advisable, but not necessary. If greater than 1000 W, top-quality front torque arms are an absolute necessity. If it was me, I'd put the motor on the rear no matter the peak power.
 
xyster said:
If greater than 1000 W, top-quality front torque arms are an absolute necessity. If it was me, I'd put the motor on the rear no matter the peak power.

I agree .

I have a 407 clyte on a front pair of RST dual-crown forks, and the handling compared to my Norco is not even comparable.

If you try to stand up on the pedals to crank hard, the weight of the front motor along with long travel front forks makes for a funky ride.

When you seated the axle nuts, did they fit inside the indent for the quick release ? or does the diameter of the bolt push the dropouts outward in any way >? I had to lay a thin flat washer over the axle, then a thick lock washer that fit inside the indent, then the axle nut because the nut was too large and was digging into the fork before clamping down on the axle.
 
hi mark, how big is your battery? would you consider putting it in one of those bags that fit in the triangle of the frame?

looks good :) i agree with the others - put the motor on the back :)
 
The 250W will work in front, but if you ever move to a bigger motor, put it in the back. With the amount of work that you seem to have into installing the 250W in front, it would seem to be a better idea to just go with a new rear hubmotor.

Try to make up a battery pack/rack or packs that will mount to your water bottle mounting bolts. If you are going with NiMH or lipo you should be able to fit it in, either above the tube, below or both.
 
xyster said:
What's the peak power you think you're ever likely to run through the motor? If less than 500w, front torque arms may be advisable, but not necessary. If greater than 1000 W, top-quality front torque arms are an absolute necessity. If it was me, I'd put the motor on the rear no matter the peak power.


500w tops - 200w is the legal limit here, I don't want to go *too* far past that.
 
Ypedal said:
xyster said:
When you seated the axle nuts, did they fit inside the indent for the quick release ? or does the diameter of the bolt push the dropouts outward in any way >? I had to lay a thin flat washer over the axle, then a thick lock washer that fit inside the indent, then the axle nut because the nut was too large and was digging into the fork before clamping down on the axle.

I ground the tabbed washers to fit neatly, then painted them with Rustkill.

I don't think the dropouts are in any danger with 250w - but I hate this fork. It has no rebound control and no top out spring.

Everytime I lift the wheel to pop a gutter (lots) it goes BANG!! I'm afraid the lower legs will fall off the staunchions..

However the Triple Crown Marzocchis have way less material in the dropouts - they need reinforcement.

I will push this bike hard. Up and down gutters at 25-30km/h, etc.
 
BiGH said:
hi mark, how big is your battery? would you consider putting it in one of those bags that fit in the triangle of the frame?

looks good :) i agree with the others - put the motor on the back :)

Nah, my Lithium pack doesn't fit in the triangle...bugger.
 
Oh, in case anyone is lost, my old E-bike (Mark1) is here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1319

When I refer to my old forks, I mean some old Mozo Groove ones.

I haven't tried 48v yet, though still hope to.


Oh, Ypedal, the axel width on this motor is bang on 100mm. I don't need any washers between the motor and fork. And you can just see the tabbed washer (half black) in the motor pic above, sitting underneath the M12 nut.

Mark
 
The fork looks beefy enough to handle 48 volts. I would use an lock bolt with 2 washers though, because even if the fork can take it, it can still "spin" it's way out of the fork if you are not careful. I can run 72 volts through mine but only because it's a steel fork and it's locked tight to that fork. My motor is also not a torque monster, more of a top speed monster so that also helps.
 
Yes I think the old Mozo fork is beefy enough around the droputs.

But I want to change to the red Marchocci Bombers - for the rebound control, and Triple Clamp. They DON'T have enough meat around the dropouts and I am working on reinforcements.

I asked about new side plates for the brake disc, I can get them but it would take months. Time to cut and shut the old side plate ;)
 
A bit of an update:

- Metalwork done for the fork reinforcements - they are off to be painted now. Had a lot of help from a machinist at work - an ex-downhill guy.

- Disc brake mounted to side of motor. It *just* squeezes in there, but I think I will have to remove the inner pad adjustment dial on my calipers to squeeze them in between the motor and the disc.

To Do:

- Make custom disc brake mount- I just don't think an off the shelve one is gunna fly.

- Find 2 more wheel nuts. I think they are M12 Fine, not certain.

- Swap crown race from black Manitous to red Marzocchis.

- Try 48v.


Getting there!!

Here are some pics:
 

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That's a great way to hide the motor. Could flank the other side with a dummy rotor.... :D
 
looks very good mark :)

very good indeed!

Thats what iwas thinking of doing with torque arms :) except your is a lot neater than i was going to fab!:)
 
Johnbear said:
Great work. Where did you get the torque arm?

I got them from Brett at Solarbbq.

Although...they didn't fit. By the time I filed them to fit, and we beat them into shape...it would have been quicker to make new ones - just a slot on the mill.

Mark
 
Almost there.... 8)

I've mounted up the motor, fork reinforcements, disc brake, and made a battery box.

Just need to make a lid for the battery box (1/2 a plastic toolbox) on the vac former at work.

And then find a way to add 12v to this thing to boost my top speed on the flat to high 30's or maybe 40 km/h.

Also inserted are some pics of my battery, made by Soopower.
 

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More..
 

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the soopower.com battery pack - what are the specs on that pack?

is it LiFePO4?
 
37v (10 cell), 41v fully charged.

10 Ah, but there's nothing on the battery verifying that.

20 amp fuse fitted, so 2C, or a bit under.

Weight = 3.8kgs.

Cost me A$550 with smart charger. Does at least 50k with pedalling.


If I was doing it over again I would buy 2 x 24v 10ah packs and put them in series. 37-41v is not enough for this hub motor. Torque is good but freewheel speed is only 35.5 kmh.
 
Hi

Nice rig, thats a life pack for sure, will give you good service that pack, I have a big Life pack from Team Hybrid that I mean to test but havent yet, I must get around to doing that.

If you want a bit more speed why not add in another small NIMH pack in series? nice and cheap to do and even an extra 12V will give you a nice boost in speed?

I may do this with one of my rides as 37V is ok but I need just a bit more! and 72V is too much!! ha ha, so a nice medium is add another 24V! little NIMH pack and your off.

Thanks for sharing the pics.

Knoxie
 
What's a "Life Pack" Knoxie?

And a NIMH pack in series is the current plan stan :) Going to start a thread about making my own out of F cells.

I have a 48v controller which has 75v fets, compared to 55v volt ones in the standard 36v controller (both are 17amp controllers).

But the motor is rated for 36v. I'm running 41v fully charged and it doesn't even get warm, so 48v doesn't worry me, but I'm not sure about 61v...

How warm is too warm...only the hard way to find out.

I realised I forgot a pic - here is how I had to do up the lock nuts for the disc brake rotor. A mate made me some spacers which space the rotor off the side plate of the motor, which is 2.5mm thick, and we just tapped holes in the side plate, at 60mm PCD.

You can also see the windings, not sure how much juice it will take.

(I also need to pick up a pair of M12 Fine nuts to go over the torque arms).

Mark
 

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Mark_A_W said:
What's a "Life Pack" Knoxie?

I'm guessing it stands for lithium iron (LiFe). What a nice coincidence. Are they actually LiFe because wouldn't 10 in series only give you around 32V?

Anyway, I'm digging the ride, looks great.
 
According to the supplier it's LiMnSO4 - Lithium Manganese Sulphate.

And it's definitely 41.2v charged.
 
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