Evolution of Skill....

[Lenk42602]

Gents,

back in the hunt finally. Since the bike has been down I have taking a bit of an e-break.... Been back on pedal bikes with aveangance, even back in the woods a bit.. Feels good when there is less jiggle on my muffin top....

Anyway, I sourced my problem to pretty much one issue -

I checked continuity across all of the mosfet legs and cae up with quite a few that were shorted out. Oddly enough there is no visual indication on the fets themselves of damage. I sent Lyen my asv. profile my controller is set at to see if user programming error was the reason.....

My halls are still good, and considering the nature of how she crapped out on me (instantly) i am pretty certain I am getting somewhere.

In the meantime, i have been gathering footage while riding bicycles over the last few months. here is a short clip....



Len

[Lenk42602]

Finally!

Controller was the issue. Lyen rocks! Just when I was getting biycle only - fit..

I even bought a new road bike!





Now, back to that loop I never finished......

[Lenk42602]

The video above was after several fets were replaced.

so shortly after buttoning up the bike - I zipped down the street to run an errand and @ 1.2 miles the controller pooped the bed again.

18X4115 Lyen, paramters:

asvbb2.png (49.27 KiB) Viewed 877 times

Bike is seeing no more than about 48 amps max, so I am guessing the phase amps are what is causing the issue with the FETS. I spent a good deal of time reading about my 5303 and their infamy for chewing up controllers, but all of these instances were with a 5303 in a 26" wheel, most at hogher voltage. I figured that my nominal voltage of 74 @ 24s A123 cells, combined with my 20" wheel set up would keep me safe.

The last few days I have been sifting through 5303/controller threads on the site here. I am kinda stumped as to what direction to head next. Any input would be appreciated.

I am not sucking amps out of the batteries - the controller doesn't get warm, and the hub motor is nly slightly warm after hard use. Both times the controller failed onme now I was at partial throttle, not WOT.

What do you guys reckon I should do here? At the very least I am pretty dead set on going with an 18X4110 Lyen, but what about my almost sure-to-fail-again 18X4115?
Should I just consider that my project controller and start planning to hange all of the fets in it?

What about a 24 fet? I am not pulling mega - volts, remember, but inductance, apparently, is a bitch with my 5303......

Thanks,

len

[Arlo1]

You should get someone to mesure the 5303 for inductance my 5304 is 255uH so I would guess yours is ~ 143uH which should not eat controllers. But what controller was it you just popped? I use settings a little under that on my 12 fet with 4110 fets. and as a rule 2.5x ratio from battery to phase amps.
This is again an example of a china controller with not enough proper hardware to keep it self alive. All it would probably need is a fast phase current sensor and it would most likely be ok.
Another rule I use with china controllers is I never run more phase amps then 40% of the max HOT (100degC) rating of the fets.

[Lenk42602]

You should get someone to mesure the 5303 for inductance my 5304 is 255uH so I would guess yours is ~ 143uH which should not eat controllers. But what controller was it you just popped? I use settings a little under that on my 12 fet with 4110 fets. and as a rule 2.5x ratio from battery to phase amps.
This is again an example of a china controller with not enough proper hardware to keep it self alive. All it would probably need is a fast phase current sensor and it would most likely be ok.
Another rule I use with china controllers is I never run more phase amps then 40% of the max HOT (100degC) rating of the fets.

Arlo, thanks for the input - the controller is a LYEN 18X4115. I would imagine someone here has measured the inductance on a 5303 due to their in-famous history of eating controllers....

I pm'd bunch of folks and they are all providing similar input - either get an 18X4110 and be careful with the settings, or get a 24 fet and be done with it....

Len

[Arlo1]

You should get someone to mesure the 5303 for inductance my 5304 is 255uH so I would guess yours is ~ 143uH which should not eat controllers. But what controller was it you just popped? I use settings a little under that on my 12 fet with 4110 fets. and as a rule 2.5x ratio from battery to phase amps.
This is again an example of a china controller with not enough proper hardware to keep it self alive. All it would probably need is a fast phase current sensor and it would most likely be ok.
Another rule I use with china controllers is I never run more phase amps then 40% of the max HOT (100degC) rating of the fets.

Arlo, thanks for the input - the controller is a LYEN 18X4115. I would imagine someone here has measured the inductance on a 5303 due to their in-famous history of eating controllers....

I pm'd bunch of folks and they are all providing similar input - either get an 18X4110 and be careful with the settings, or get a 24 fet and be done with it....

Len

Yup 4115 mosfets are very weak. 4110 are a lot better. Lower RDSON meens less heat.

[Lenk42602]

Bike is back up again. 18X4110 controller V2. Waiting on the new jumper cable that is need with the new version boards in these controllers. Will be holding my breath until I get some miles underneath her.....

len

[GCinDC]

got any road tires for that puppy? you're needed at sandy hook on may 26...

now gotta ping mwkeefer..

[Lenk42602]

got any road tires for that puppy? you're needed at sandy hook on may 26...

now gotta ping mwkeefer..

I just might make it. Gotta get some days off and some cash in my pocket tho.

After the controller business got sorted, my alloy shell charger set to 86.7v decided to go buh-bye. The toroidal transformer fried - all the coating on the windings burned off, emitting lovely plumes of white smoke in the hall where it was charging. I also melted my power switch contacts on my last ride... Had the switch in line on the main pwer leads, rather than the "ignition switch" lead. Re-wired that tonight..

Fortunately, I bought a cheap ($60) 24s Lifepo4 charger on ebay last fall as a back up - She has been doing the job okay, but I gotta find a better built job if I am going to charge my pack quickly.

I can get away with using SLA chargers set up for 72v, an there are a few out there that seem to be viable. They all seem to charge at ~86 to 88 volts and then float at 81v..

cheap:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... DcQ8wIwAg#

Well Built:
http://www.impactbattery.com/i7212-dual ... 2-amp.html

Kelly, but looks like all the turd chargers that are proving poorly built
http://kellycontroller.com/f7210-72v10a ... p-108.html

gotta find something that isnt crap!

Len

[Lenk42602]

My ride in yesterday am. No music. Bike sounds bad ass enough.



len

[Lenk42602]

.......aaaannnd coming home the same day....



I pulled a nice one this morning - had the bike already to go for the ride in. Dragged it down the steps, helmet, gloves, pack, throw a leg over. Turn on the bike - nuthin. No power. Baffled. Stumped.

As I was running just a bit late, I rolled it into the garage, and threw all my riding gear in with it. Shut the door, hopped in the car. While diriving in and running through possibe reasons, I realized that late last night I pulled the BMS off the pack and checked each cell to make sure all are behaving/balancing as they should.

Well, when you unplug the bms from the cells, but not from the power leads from to he pack, you are telling the bms that all the cells are at 0V....

I uhm, forgot to throw the pack on the charger after last night's cell check to re-power the BMS.

Did so a few minutes ago now that I am home and badda bing.

I don't do well when rushed.....



Len

[auraslip]

All those cars stuck in traffic must be pissed at you

[Lenk42602]

Every day! For some reason they are more pissed when I am on my road bike. Can't quite figure that one out....


Len

[Lenk42602]

Aargh! More issues. Please HALP. Getting frustrated!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39186


Len

[XLR8]

Looking very nice! I wish I would have gone that route with my build using the square tube, it makes the fitting SOO much easier and will make for a cool final look! Are you planning to use rivnuts to secure the body panels? Would really make it easy! I got some and I LOVE them for stuff like that... Also, is that one of those rear shocks from a mini dirt bike? I was wondering how they worked for something like this...

Thanks Whip,

Exactly why I used square tube...Easy to keep everything aligned...Haven't yet figured what I am using for the panels, but they will attach at the corner gussetts of the frame. Got a few more miles to go before I get to that stage...

fast ace pit bike shock:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... vi-content

Later,

Len

Hi Len,
I have enjoyed reading your build immensely. I am building my own frame now. So what I would like to know is -
What rear shock did you end up with? The link above no longer exists. Can you tell me the model of the shock and description of the spring? Also, what is the length of the swing arm ( centre of pivot to centre of wheel axle) and the distance between the centre of pivot of the swing arm to centre of rear shock bottom pivot? Buying a rear shock will enable me to finish the project.
Your response would be a great help to me.
Regards,
Kev

[GCinDC]

i've been getting crazy ideas about framebuilding again.. just reread this entire thread. such a great resource! friggin awesome build!

what's become of it?

what are the lessons learned?

how was the rear suspension with the moto shock?

best,

g

[Lenk42602]

i've been getting crazy ideas about framebuilding again.. just reread this entire thread. such a great resource! friggin awesome build!

what's become of it?

what are the lessons learned?

how was the rear suspension with the moto shock?

best,

g

Greg,

I have not ridden the bike since last posting about the capacity issues with the pack back in April. It was determined that at least one cell was bad, but upon opening the pack, there were a quite few more cells in need of replacement than originally anticipated.

I am told that I should be seeing a fully functional pack in the next several weeks.

Over the summer, this dilemma has made it difficult to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

Hopefully I can report once I am on the road again.

I can tell you for sure that moto shock was the right choice for my build, suspension design, and gvw.

If you're building a bike, and you want to make it as exciting as possible, power to weight ratio is key, as is keeping the entire bike light enough that it still feels like a bicycle.

.....otherwise you just have a freaking cool electric dual sport moped that looks like bicycle....

Len

[Emoto]

Lenk nice Evolution
Im building a hub into a 17" mx rim and have a little flat spot/defect.
I noticed in one of your videos your rear rim is not exactly round [has some visible up and down play ] how much is it- 4mm ? and more to the point can you feel it when riding.
Ow and your rear disc rotor where did you get it/model

[Lenk42602]

rear rim is out maybe a few mm. Those moto tires do not come out of the molds perfectly true either. Either way, I didn't notice. the rear rotor is a custom job from a friend in croatia. only reason it is that large is because the hub motor is an old pre-disk 5303 and I had to utilize the cover plate bolt holes for the disc rotor.

Len

[Emoto]

Ok Lenk Thanks, the supplier of my rim said i could return it if needed,mine has the same 2/3mm out of round so ill take a gamble on it.
I also would like a friend like that ,will be hard to find a rotor that fits light and thin enough, the quest moves on.

[Lenk42602]

In a curious coincidence, i am heading out the door right now on the "mid fat" build for its inaugural work commute. I just checked the tracking status for the battery replacement Cellman sent out for the Skill. It is in the postal truck on the way to the house.

So no ebikes all summer, and now I am looking at two runners very soon.

More updates on this one once she's wired up and rolling again...

Len

[Lenk42602]

Soldered a few connectors on the BMS/wiring harness today and got the subpacks back in the bike.
Going to load the controller profile I had on my 18X4110 this spring.

Everything should be neat and tidy in a few hours.

[Ypedal]

to hell with the neat and tidy, put some damn tape on it, get on with the road test, less agrevation if it fails again and you have to un-do all that work

[Lenk42602]

Im back baby. Bike is running again.

Had it up and down the street this afternoon.

May go for a jaunt this week end....

[iovaykind]

Congrats! Long awaited is this comeback!