E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Justtoby]

wow you neards are really sticklers for details huh?.....have any of you guys ever had sex with a REAL woman?...haw haw haw well I meant 2 pivot I guess but I think most people got my point also I said a "lot" of posts I think I read like 3 or 4 to be exact around forum page 16 or 17 or close to that area...anyway,from what you guys are saying it seems stealth has the best turn key bike for a newbie like me who does not know all the technical details...maybe later lighter rare earth motors may come out....perhaps some lighter batteries...maybe have all wires and windings in motor coated with silver?.....I tried the stealth fighter really liked the regen got 0.1% regen from just riding bike up and down 2 blocks 2 times and using regen only to stop at stop signs

Yes I had sex with 3 at once....or was it 2?....it was lots anyway.....

[korpin]

here is photo of bike I thought was cool over at HPC....i WAS THINKING MAYBE THIS MIGHT BE a lighter way to go than bomber but guys over at other posts are saying HPC is hyping the specs...to be honest,I felt they were overblown myself: 55 mph 50 mile range 74 pounds total.....guessing its 72v and 1 kwh.....hard to see how they can claim the same mph/range as stealth with its 1.5kwh...I really do not know what the HPC kwh is but I cannot see there being much room for more than 1kwh ever if they are using the new lighter style batteries but perhaps I am wrong?....also this BS on their website seems a little carpet baggerish: "This bike is for EXPERTS ONLY. If this is your first electric bike, think again. We will only sell to individuals familiar with Motorcycles or other high performance Offroad Electric Vehicles." haw haw haw sounds like a greasy saleman with a pony tale and earing talking

[Justtoby]

YAWN...this is a forum for enthusiasts, not some very "clever" (not) viral marketing. Please take your posts elsewhere before this thread is closed or has to be deleted to clean it up.

[korpin]

I guess you are saying I work for HPC?...parnoia runs deep in these forums but I do have a question regarding the Stealth battery package: I read somewhere that the batteries are 36 pounds lythium iron I think....if I were to replace with lythium polymer or whatever the lighter batteries are called how much weight would I save?....the guys at HPC said the lighter batteries have 700 cycles versus 1000 for the stealths batteries do not know how true that is...on their site they say 10 pounds but they do not say how much kwh for 10 pounds...what I am getting at is this: if I buy stealth bomber and replace batteries with same kwh but just lighter batteries how much weight can I save?and are there any problems besides less cycles with the lighter batteries?

[remf]

On an unrelated note, what rshunt values have you guys got set in your CAs for your 18 fet controllers ? My icharger blew up recently so I can't accurately test mine but I'm guessing it's around 1.5mohm?

My Fighter is set to 1.0 mΩ, the Bomber is around 0.65 mΩ after a controller replacement though I haven't re-calibrated yet.

[korpin]

well it seems you are saying you saved 2kg?....because over at the stealth website they say 34kg unless your bike is a heavier older model?...does not seem worth it to me from a weight standpoint

I have completed the LiPo conversion to my mate's Fighter and must say that I am really pleased with the results. Many people love the Fighter for its weight and handling advantages but wish it had the speed and power of the Bomber. This conversion comes close to fore-filling these desires with out compromising the OEM feel of the bike.

So first thing was to decide on an appropriate voltage without going too over the top. I settled on 18s which is 75V hot off the charger. 6s LiPo's are the most economical LiPo package so it made sense to series connect 3 x 6s packs and then parallel 2 banks together to create an 18s 2p configuration.

Next exercise was to figure out exactly what I could squeeze into the Fighter battery compartment. The Fighter's battery compartment is not what you would consider cavernous and as such, correct battery selection was very important. I also wanted to keep the cell capacity as large as possible so as to the keep the actual number of cells fitted to a minimum. My Bomber has 15 packs in it which is a real spagetti of wiring to contend with. This setup is only 6 packs and makes for a much tidier installation.

Battery selection came down to two possibilities. Zippy 6S 8000mah 30c packs or Desire Power 6S 8300mah. The Desire Power packs are a great quality pack and have a little more capacity however, they are around 50% more expensive then the Zippys. As much as I would have liked the extra capacity, it just wasn't worth it for an extra 40W/hrs.

However, on a side note, if maximum capacity was your aim, you could actually squeeze in 8 of the Desire Packs. This would give you over 1500 W/hrs minus your 10 to 20% safety margin. Only problem is that you would either need to run 12s 4p or 24s 2p.

Desire power.jpg

The Zippy's come with 5.5mm bullets which makes them nice and easy to plug together in series. Just be careful not to plug the last pair together (yes I did this once. = Big plasma ball, black hands, and seeing stars for a bit)

IMG_0830.jpg

The packs were arranged with the bottom 2 packs with their narrow side down and a 3rd pack on top with its wide side down. This makes the stack 120mm high and just slides into the battery compartment with a mm or 2 to spare. The stack arrangement gives you room to fit the plugs and wiring without a struggle. The 8 pack setup that I mentioned above would be a nightmare to plug in.

It should be noted that the standard 70A Anderson's plug is used to match the existing plug. I wanted to make sure the stock battery setup was still fully compatible after the conversion.

IMG_0838.jpg

So now to the bike modifications. When using LiPo's, much attention needs to be given to safe handling. I think it is of paramount importance that the battery pack can be isolated from the outside of bike quickly and easily. This means part of the battery wiring needs to exit and re enter the battery compartment. This is what I came up with.

IMG_0832.jpg

Basically the internal main power cable from the controller to the battery is cut in about the middle and re routed through a 10mm hole (grommet protected) just infront of the seat post. This position gave me enough room to get a drill in and nicely hides the plug from view when tucked away. It should be noted that CoMo steel doesn't drill easily however, using lots of steps and lubrication, this can be achieved without too much trouble. The hardest part is coming to terms with drilling a 10mm hole in your brand new $7,000.00 bike.



Next job was to fit some good quality plugs to protruding wires. This isolation point also becomes the point where the bulk charger is plugged into.
I used EC5 plugs for this job. These are a really nice 5mm protected bullet plug that plug together firmly but still still disconnect without too much force needed.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9194__EC5_5mm_Connector_Pair_.html#

IMG_0842.jpg

Batteries now slide in as 2 banks held together with velcro wraps. http://arkrc.com.au/products/SCLOCKSTRAPL-Scorpion-Lock-Strap-%28L%29.html. These wraps are designed specially to hold big LiPo packs in model helicopters and have a high grip sticky surface. They really hold the packs firmly together so perfect for a bike application. Still enough room to plug the packs in without a struggle.

IMG_0848.jpg

And the finish product ready to roll.

IMG_0850.jpg

IMG_0853.jpg

Now to some updated specs:
18s 2p 16ah Zippy LiPo pack
Voltage 75V hot off the charger
1100 W/hr max capacity.
900 W/ hr safe conservative usable capacity
Top speed 70 kph (Confirmed)
Max current: Set to 50A via the CA
Max kW: 3.7kW limited via the CA
Range should be close to a stock Fighter setup. Estimate 60km max but 40km under brisk riding conditions.
Bike weight: 32 kg.
Charging: 1200W Bulk charger. Estimate 1 1/2 hours charge time.

Finally charging needs to be covered. A bulk charger from BMS-Battery will be used.http://www.bmsbattery.com/alloy-shell/29-alloy-shell-1200w-lifepo4li-ionlead-acid-battery-ev-charger.html
I have selected a 1200W LiFePo4 charger re calibrated to 75V peak. Bulk charging LiPo's with a LiFePo4 charger is thread on its own so I wont go into it here except to say its a very effective method of charging high capacity high voltage LiPo's.

alloy-shell-1200w-lifepo4li-ionlead-acid-battery-ev-charger.jpg

And the cost.
Packs are $94 USD per pack = $564.00
Misc Hardware = Approx $80.00
Bulk charger = $140.00
Shipping = $120.00
Total cost = $904.00

Also one of the handy things about this setup is that its now a piece of cake to carry a Aux battery on a seat post mounted rack. You could carry say 3 x 5000mah or ever 3 x 8000mah packs without overloading the rack. With the plug now external, its a 20 second job to plug in and you are ready to go again.

[Hyena]

My Fighter is set to 1.0 mΩ, the Bomber is around 0.65 mΩ after a controller replacement though I haven't re-calibrated yet.

That's quite a difference. If mine is really around 1.0mohm instead of the 1.5 I have currently programmed that'd explain my artificially good economy. I knew it was too good to be true that the new 40mm xlyte motor was more efficient than my old 9C! (though I thought the increased copper mass might have been generating more usable power than the 9C which would be dumping a heap as heat around 3-4kw)
Anyone else with a newish fighter care to post up their rshunt value ?
I should just buy a replacement icharger but my current one was only 3 months old when it blew up so I'm waiting for it to be be replaced under warranty. I might have to come pay you a visit voicecoils - you got one at work ?

[Kepler]

I guess you are saying I work for HPC?...parnoia runs deep in these forums but I do have a question regarding the Stealth battery package: I read somewhere that the batteries are 36 pounds lythium iron I think....if I were to replace with lythium polymer or whatever the lighter batteries are called how much weight would I save?....the guys at HPC said the lighter batteries have 700 cycles versus 1000 for the stealths batteries do not know how true that is...on their site they say 10 pounds but they do not say how much kwh for 10 pounds...what I am getting at is this: if I buy stealth bomber and replace batteries with same kwh but just lighter batteries how much weight can I save?and are there any problems besides less cycles with the lighter batteries?

A low post count and some back handed product complements does tend to raise a few suspicions . Looks like a quick search answered your last question which is good. No point going over old ground. If you legitimately are interested in a Stealth bike the amount of information, videos and multitude of happy customers should give you a reasonable level of confidence. Perhaps every post doesn't need to be in bold lettering either. Just a friendly suggestion

[korpin]

HAVE ANY OF YOU GUYS SEEN THE Greyborg frame which looks just like a Stealth: http://www.greyb.org/assembler.html I was curious is the stealth frame made the same way meaning the skin supports the load?....it seems from looking at the photos of the greyborg there is no internal frame!

[Kepler]

From the Stealth Web site.

FRAME. Constructed from aircraft certified CrMo alloys, the one piece monocoque frames large polar moment of inertia displays exceptional torsional rigidity under the most extreme loading conditions.So yes they are.

The Greyborg bike was a Stealth inspired one off handcrafted machine with lots of Greyborg customization.

[remf]

Greyborgs are very nice...in fact it would probably be my third choice after the Fighter & Bomber.

[Hyena]

HAVE ANY OF YOU GUYS SEEN THE Greyborg frame which looks just like a Stealth!

YES WE HAVE. They are essentially the same with a monocoque frame, if you read back through the thread you'll see pictures inside the stealths. Hal acknowledged it was a copy of the bomber.

In other late breaking news, have you heard lithium batteries have now been invented ? Man Korpin, this is going to be great for powering our ebikes, no more SLA!

[full-throttle]

In other late breaking news, have you heard lithium batteries have now been invented ?

Woo hoo!

Hyena's guide to ebike battery technology (if they were women)

SLA

This is the fat girl at school. She ate all the pies and if you have to put her on the back of your bike you'll know all about the extra weight. She may break your frame if you're rough with her. That said she'll put out because she doesn't know when someone will show interest in her again. Expect some nasty sagging, and while she might be able to travel 20 miles at walking pace, don't expect her to go that far if you make her run. Expect her heart to give out after a year.

2-3C LiFePO4

This is common plain Jane from accounts. She'll cost you a bit more than SLA the Hutt but you won't break your back lugging her around and she won't drop dead after a year of you exercising her. She does have asthma though so while she'll whip along the flat OK don't expect her sprint off the line or blaze up steep hills.

6-10C LiFePO4

If wheezy Jane from accounts isn't performing well enough for you meet Helga. Part Barvarian, part Viking she can run just as fast as Jane but has bigger muscles to flex. Wanna get off the line quick or up that steep hill ? She'll throw you over her shoulder and carry you up. The trade off is she isn't exactly slight... mmmm, chunky

20-50C Lipo

Meet Kara Kent. She's hot with a fit athletic body but for her small size and weight her power is out of this world. She can easily lift 20x her weight, be super fast and in the RC world she can fly. Be warned, if you get on the wrong side of her she'll melt your skin off with her heat vision. She's a little higher maintenance than Helga, but isnt she worth it ?!

[deecanio]

heheheheh.

D

[korpin]

seems helga is the best date....from other posts I READ they only saved 2 kg on fighter so that would be 3kg on bomber...anything less than 10-15 pounds is not worth the money or less cycles I don't mind a woman with a little muscle they can be fun to tussle...

[korpin]

I am in SFV area of los angeles county...found a bike dealer willing to sign up as a stealth dealer if two bikes are pre-sold....in exchange,we will get a hefty discount probably around 2,000.00 less need another buyer please contact me IF YOU ARE READY TO BUY WITHIN 2 WEEKS

[Cowardlyduck]

I am in SFV area of los angeles county...found a bike dealer willing to sign up as a stealth dealer if two bikes are pre-sold....in exchange,we will get a hefty discount probably around 2,000.00 less need another buyer please contact me IF YOU ARE READY TO BUY WITHIN 2 WEEKS

Lol, good luck with the discount. I'll be interested to see if you actually pull that off.
You do realise there's a 2 month wait once you've paid for the bike whilst it's built?

Rode my Fighter home in the dark for the first time last night. I'm not sure what it was, but I was screamin. Managed my normal 45-50min commute in 34 min.

Cheers

[korpin]

YES I know theres a wait..thats why i wanna get this going the guy will at least want a deposit,,,,he said he would do it a dealer has to get two I think he is worried the other one will not sell

[Cowardlyduck]

Just wondering...
Making an assumption here, but I would take a guess that these (or something similar) are the cells being used in the battery in my Fighter.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/lifepo4-cell/10-headway-38120s-lifepo4-battery-cell.html


With that in mind, is it a problem that I've seen nearly 2000w on occasion when doing regen? I mean, that's about 40 amps, and these cells are only rated for 50. If I were to manage over 50 amps down a really steep hill, would it likely damage my battery, or does the BMS stop that?

Cheers

[Kepler]

Older Stealth bikes use to use headways but now they use cells like this http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=29959. Not these specifically but a flat bagged type of cell. Their C rating is much higher then Headways so the high current generated by re gen isn't an issue.

[korpin]

I would assume the controller manages the regen because I saw on another google forum that a guy with a stealth bomber added another battery pack to his fork crowns and his regenerative value went up considerably.....not that I am an expert,but this tells me the controller senses there is more room to offload current faster or perhaps the controller senses less heat build up?...I would think with more batteries you could offload more current quicker with less heat to the motor?...maybe someone who is more technically able can explain?

[Cowardlyduck]

Older Stealth bikes use to use headways but now they use cells like this http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=29959. Not these specifically but a flat bagged type of cell. Their C rating is much higher then Headways so the high current generated by re gen isn't an issue.

Ah...good to know. Thanks Kepler.

On another note, I am getting sick of babying this motor. I keep seeing 60-65C temps on the covers on my daily commute, and I only have my max amps set to 40 at the moment.

Does anyone else with a Fighter keep an eye on the temperature. What are others seeing in general street riding use?

Cheers

[korpin]

would it be possible to put "scoops" on the sides of motor casing facing forward and an outlet on the top between the spokes facing rearward (or perhaps the other way around since the cooling scoops could pick up more air farther out from center) to provide cooling?.....of course the motors would need cleaning with air often and going through water would be out....but its a thought....also is the bombers magnets iron?....I know rare earth magnets run cooler.....also coating the copper windings and battery cables with silver may help somewhat just some ideas

[Cowardlyduck]

would it be possible to put "scoops" on the sides of motor casing facing forward and an outlet on the top between the spokes facing rearward (or perhaps the other way around since the cooling scoops could pick up more air farther out from center) to provide cooling?.....of course the motors would need cleaning with air often and going through water would be out....but its a thought....also is the bombers magnets iron?....I know rare earth magnets run cooler.....also coating the copper windings and battery cables with silver may help somewhat just some ideas

Yeah, there are plenty of options out there for cooling. None that have no drawbacks though.
I already asked a few questions like that here.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=37344
I'm not wanting to void my warranty modding my motor for cooling just yet.
I just had to bitch about it somewhere as it's driving me nuts. I either have an underpowered (but good looking) sloth that stays cool, or an adequately powered, fast bike for about 20-30 minutes at a time. It just frustrates me that a product, especially one that costs so much, and as renowned as this, has such an annoying problem.
Or is it just me/ my motor. Do others see/have this same frustration?

I'm thinking/leaning towards putting Oil in the motor once warranty is up. Just hope I can baby it enough to last till then.

Cheers

[Kepler]

Older Stealth bikes use to use headways but now they use cells like this http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=29959. Not these specifically but a flat bagged type of cell. Their C rating is much higher then Headways so the high current generated by re gen isn't an issue.

Ah...good to know. Thanks Kepler.

On another note, I am getting sick of babying this motor. I keep seeing 60-65C temps on the covers on my daily commute, and I only have my max amps set to 40 at the moment.

Does anyone else with a Fighter keep an eye on the temperature. What are others seeing in general street riding use?

Cheers

40A is only around 2000W. The motor should be able to sustain this power level I would have thought.

In relation to cooling mods, you could just bite the bullet and void the motor warranty. Its not a huge cost to replace and the mods will make it less likely that you would need to replace it anyway.