RVD's first ebike (TidalForce S-750, 9C 2807, etc.)

[RVD]

I do get some hand numbness after about 25 minutes or so. I'm sort of used to it in some ways because I get it when I ride my road bike after about an hour (and I sometimes ride for 3-4 hours on my road bike).

I attribute it more to handlebar + saddle position though so I have been making adjustments in the hopes that it will help. I also wasn't using the front shocks much but loosened them as well to help.

[RVD]

btw, I haven't tried Maxxis hookworms. I saw them on el_steak's bike though and they look good. Maybe I'll try those next time around when it's time to change tires.

[ambroseliao]

I do get some hand numbness after about 25 minutes or so. I'm sort of used to it in some ways because I get it when I ride my road bike after about an hour (and I sometimes ride for 3-4 hours on my road bike).

Have you tried the Ergon grip? They spread the pressure out so you can rest on your palms instead on your wrists.

Ambrose

[icecube57]

Im trying to figure out why did you choose panniers. My trunk bag can hold 12 Lipo and looks alot neater. I tried panniers when I had the heavy Thunderskies but when I switched to lipo.. they were so compact that a trunk bag was a perfect. I have my controller under my rack. I ran alot of my wires into cat5 cable through the frame to reduce the wire count.

[RVD]

I chose panniers in my case because I wanted to get the weight lowered towards the axle. I also wanted the option to have extra space to take stuff to/from work.

I have 6 lipos to carry (12s3p for 16 miles) and at least the way that I have them organized, they don't fit in just the top trunk. I might be able to get them to fit and I'll try riding it that way but I'm just afraid that the weight will be too high in the back. But I won't knock it till I try it...

[RVD]

I do get some hand numbness after about 25 minutes or so. I'm sort of used to it in some ways because I get it when I ride my road bike after about an hour (and I sometimes ride for 3-4 hours on my road bike).

Have you tried the Ergon grip? They spread the pressure out so you can rest on your palms instead on your wrists.

Ambrose

Yes I have ergon grips on my mountain bike (regular bike). I do like them. Maybe I'll consider doing that here like you did (cut them to make them fit, etc.).

[ambroseliao]

They are extremely comfortable.

Trimmed Ergon Grips.jpg (86.5 KiB) Viewed 664 times

[oatnet]

I do get some hand numbness after about 25 minutes or so. I'm sort of used to it in some ways because I get it when I ride my road bike after about an hour (and I sometimes ride for 3-4 hours on my road bike).

Have you tried the Ergon grip? They spread the pressure out so you can rest on your palms instead on your wrists.

Ambrose

Yep, that is why I asked, I was heading towards recommending the Ergon Grips (ambrose has already heard the spiel ), and I was also going to recommend the On-One 'Mary' handlebars. I know everyone is different, but that combination (properly adjusted) fixed the problems I was having on long rides. Since you do my preferred long-ride route every day, I thought it might help.

If you get saddle-sore, I recommend the Thudbuster, but judging by that skinny seat I don't think that is a concern for you.

I got the Hookworm recommendation from an ex-endless-sphere-OG 'Xyster" in 2007, loved the tire, and mentioned it to most of the folks who bought TF frames from me, which is probably why you see it on a lot of S-750 frame builds. The inverse tread has low rolling resistance and good street traction, and it wraps all around the sidewall so you never feel like are on the edge of the tire during a deep lean.

I also got the Panaflex soft-Kevlar liner recomendation from Xyster: http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping ... p?id=11244
I put two of these, side-by-side, on my front wheel, and a single one on the back wheel.

I added the Kenda Downhill tube with a whopping 2.25mm thick sidewall to round out the protection. http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping ... p?id=17342

This is the only combination I use, no flats in 15,000+ miles. It adds weight to the bike, but it also makes a safer, more durable ride.

And if you really want to get crazy, the Alex DX-32 rims I use are a massive 38mm wide and spread hookworms into a nice big contact patch.

-JD

Whups, looks like Ambrose posted while I was writing this. My preference is to the GC-3 version that has a bar-end that protects my hand and gives me something to hold onto when I stand up.

[RVD]

thanks for the tip. i'll look into those wheels and tubes when the current set wear out.

those ergons look like the ones that i use on my mountain bike. i have the other bars sticking out for additional hand positions.

the brooks saddle is actually really comfortable. i pulled it off my mountain bike (where it didn't really belong anyway). The saddle is heavy so I always hesitated to use it but it's somewhat refreshing to build a bike and not have to care so much about weight.

i ran a test over the weekend on 14s1p and it was pretty fast. i don't have a temperature gauge so i'm a little worried about the motor overheating when i'm pulling 1800+ watts / 40-50 amps from it so i take it easy. the motor seems ok with 1400 watts / 30-40 amps but even then i don't push it too much.

my daily commute is sort of put on hold because of our car. it's a lease and it goes back to the stealership on 6/22. it's way low on miles so i need to drive it and get some use out of it. after 6/22, i will be commuting exclusively with this bike since we will only have 1 car.

JD, if you want to go for a ride, we should go since we live so close to each other. i'm a little scared to do any serious climbing with it (i usually ride my road bike up the palos verdes penninsula) in fear that i will overheat and kill the motor but the beach trail is always fun...

[Ykick]

I run my 2807 9C between 12S-15S RC Lipo. 12S I measure 1600W peaks hot off the charger but the hub never seems to get too hot because the 9FET controller settles back to around 17-20A sustained output - although I'm not climbing extremely long/steep hills I feel pretty confident 12S won't cook this motor.

15S different story. 2300W peaks my hub get's plenty hot just running around the neighborhood. In fact, the eBike-Kit white logo painted on the hub started to darken and turn brown so I think that's a little too much heat for these motors to dissipate safely for extended duty cycles.

In fact, this got me thinking about using some white paint and/or White-out or something along those lines as a high temp warning system. Swipe some white paint on the hub covers and if they start to darken and/or brown you're probably running too hot.

The only complaint I have about those extra handles sticking out from bars/grips is that 'can't use Mirrcycle mirrors. Or, you must devise a different mounting scheme.

Personally, thick foam motorcycle grips feel really good to me for extended rides and I'm kinda picky about hand comfort.

Looks good RVD, enjoy the great ride!

[oatnet]

JD, if you want to go for a ride, we should go since we live so close to each other. i'm a little scared to do any serious climbing with it (i usually ride my road bike up the palos verdes penninsula) in fear that i will overheat and kill the motor but the beach trail is always fun...

A ride sounds like a great idea. I get up to Malaga Cove on PV frequently, but I don't all the way around like you Road Bikers do, seen too many close calls from motorists looking at the scenery instead of the road, or from motorists peeved about road bikes riding three abreast. <grin> I seem to remember you get back from work late (and after a long ride), lets chat on PMs.

regarding HEAT. You can increase watts by adding volts or amps. In a simple model, increasing battery side volts increases RPMs, but not heat, so it is an easy way to increase watts. Pushing more amps through the resistance of the motor windings is what adds heat. Your post mentions increasing both volts (12s to 14s) and amps (30-40 to 40-50), did you actually increase amps (adjust the limit on your CA etc) or just notice it at different amp levels? If you only adjusted the voltage and are running the same course, your motor won't run any hotter, so you would be fine.

BTW note that the amp rating for your controller is on the battery side - most of the time your controller sends much higher amps to the motor than it draws from the battery (PWM).

However, you are correct to be concerned about the hills - and the way I would overcome that is by limiting amps. We know that CA amp limiting works with your controller, because that was what made the motor run funny when the CA wasn't calibrated and it was probably cutting out on 5 amps. You can use that setting on your CA to reduce amps to keep your motor cooler. I wonder if the control line on your CA is wired to the brake or the throttle lead - I'll re-read and figure out whose controller you are running.

Even with this in place, you still need to maintain speed on hills; it seems counter-intuitive, but the slower you go, the more amps get sent to the motor. If you keep battery-side amps constant, and increase volts but go slow, those additional volts on the battery side show up as additional amps on the motor side.

-JD

[oatnet]

The only complaint I have about those extra handles sticking out from bars/grips is that 'can't use Mirrcycle mirrors.

Really? I guess I'll have to take my Mirrycle off then:

-JD

[RVD]

Some updated pictures, etc.

I have changed my setup to 14s instead of 12s. I have my old 6s3p packs and I created a new 2s3p pack and I hook up the 3 packs in series for 14s3p. I chose 14s since my charger (hyperion) can charge up to 14s. I like the additional power. My top speed goes from around 29-30mph up to 32-33mph which is enough to feel a difference. The motor and controller get warm but don't get too hot so I think I'm ok. I have also read about a lot of others here who run 18s.

I also have a small 14s1p set that I can use easily to go for short trips. For this setup, I do not have to use the side panniers so the bike has a cleaner look.

I also added fenders, moved my controller to go underneath the rear rack (and above the rear fender), etc. The controller is a tight fit but the fender doesn't scrape against the wheel so it's all good.

I set up regen braking. I don't actually brake that often since my route does not have a lot of stop signs or traffic lights. In general if I just let off on the throttle, it is enough to slow me down if I'm coming up to slower bikes, etc. However, it is nice because the motor slows down the bike a lot instead of relying only on the brakes.

My rear rack and panniers are the same but I may buy a set of Timbuk2 panniers. I just like their look a little more.

Some pics:

[RVD]

I should update pictures here one of these days. But anyway, I have made the following changes:

1) Changed the rear wheel out to a Crystalyte HS3540 with sensors
2) Changed the controller to a Lyen 12 fet controller
3) Have 2 sets of batteries. 18s lipo is used on weekends and gets me in the 40mph club! 16s lifepo4 (48v) 20ah is used during the week for commuting.

I am not 100% convinced that the motor upgrade was worth it. The motor can probably handle more voltage, etc. than the 9c but my 9c was pretty solid and worked well. I rarely go above 2kw anyway...but my top speed was around 35mph at 14s lipo whereas now I can go 40+mph on 18s lipo so I guess that's good.

[ambroseliao]

Hey RVD,

Can you tell me what the 3540 sounds like compared to the 9C? I'm just wondering myself about upgrading and hoped that the 3540 was just a bit quieter.

Thanks,
Ambrose

[icecube57]

Hey RVD,

Can you tell me what the 3540 sounds like compared to the 9C? I'm just wondering myself about upgrading and hoped that the 3540 was just a bit quieter.

Thanks,
Ambrose

[ambroseliao]

Uhm, is that the sound the HS3540 makes?!?!?

[RVD]

I wouldn't say that it's noticeably quieter. It might be a little bit but I think it's similar. I don't really hear the motor when I'm riding down the street at 25+ mph...I just hear wind noise.

It is a little heavier though. Overall, I think the reason to upgrade (if you decide to) is for more power.

I think that in general, if you're happy with the 9c, just stay with the 9c. If you're doing stuff like drilling holes into the 9c covers (like icecube did) and you're finding that the 9c is getting too hot, etc...you may want to upgrade.