"Ghetto" Build.

[Brentis]

I would like to start with a thank you. Thanks to everyone here who contributes.
So many to list, from the moderators,to the guys who push the boundries of what's possible on a bike,
to the guys that answer all the Newb questions that appear over and over.
Especially those that take the time to document their creativity. It's taking me an eternity But I'm special.
To everyone who is helping to keep this site as is, Banner free. A HUGE THANK YOU.
Justin you are awesome.

I am a looong time lurker, I have read about 80% of the posts on this forum.
I don't post much, but ES has been my entertainment and education for the last few years.
I began lurking back in to the days of Safe & Reid, entertaining fella's
Left for a while, got the build it your self bug, and I then joined a little over a year ago.
Read about, learned from, and got to admire a whole new group of mad ebike enthusiasists.
LFP, aussiejester,hyena,Dogman, your video's entertain and inspire.
Not to mention the hundred or so other guys, who keep the spirit alive.
A special thanks to the vendors I met through this forum. Who without, I would still be riding this

2008 Schwinn IZip.JPG (142.01 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

With the niceties out of the way....

Let me introduce Ghetto

Final shot before rebuild ES.jpg (103.37 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

The Bike - 90ish Miyata SportRunner
Motivation - Crystalyte Hx3540
Powerplant - Celll_man 52v11.5amp/h A123 pack. 6amp charger. 2hours empty till full
Controller - Clyte 48v 35amp. Cheap, effective, will be used as a spare in the future. Thx Max,

The battery has had its summer coat of duct tape removed, in the pic.
Look @ the clearance between batt. & toptube
That was 2 lbs of foam and DT.
Dirty and ridin' hard for 100+ cycles from June till now.
I don't have a CA yet, but estimate 3000+ km, many multi charge days
Top speed with my fat ass is Iphone certified at 45kph
That's optimum, 40kph is more like it, that's plenty for me considering 20" wheels,
rigid suspension, and only a front brake.
Like I said Ghetto


So you might ask, how's that battery supported?
This beautiful 15 lb creation of Cell_man's has preformed flawlessly.
More on his service anytime anyone wants to chat. Great price and performance, all factors considered.

The Battery 52v 11.5ah A123, 30amp cont. BMS, 6amp charger Thank you Cell_man.JPG (238.97 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

I started with this

The Bike 80's-90's Miyata Sportrunner ES.jpg (152.03 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

Then did this

Cardboard template for Batt. & support.jpg (133.01 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

Then I went to Whatever Depot and got a 8' length of 3 1/2" steel wall stud, a pair of quality tin snips and went to town.

Steel stud & template.jpg (135.8 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

Notice pedal as kickstand Ghetto

Template & Stud.jpg (129.43 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

Pre cut holes for utilities, strategically placed for wiring.

Rough Fit.jpg (135.88 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

Steel support is fastened to water bottle locations on downtube & seattube.
Zipties @ strategic locations, just in case.
Takes a hard hit to make it squeak.

Final fitting before paint. Corners of support filled with JB weld to form 1 solid pc..jpg (133.31 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

Notice very supportive fiancee. What with me using the kitchen as a shop, but weeeze po folk
Controller Ziptied to support under battery.

Wrap the battery in a Dollarstore bathmat then 1lb of duct tape. As per Red Green, eh. ES..jpg (115.59 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

Adjustable straps to hold lateraly. Hook up your wiring and away you go..jpg (103.37 KiB) Viewed 2990 times

40 kph and 40 km is my record. Moderate pedaling. Mostly flat.
30kph for 30km avg.run. No pedaling.
Not bad for a rigid that weighs less than 65lbs.
Braking is by 90mm Sturmey Drum front only. Brake early, accelerate through. Trust me. again Ghetto
Future upgrades will be
1. Wood battery Box. Notice 1/4" Birch in last shot.
2. CycleAnalyist
3. Controller Upgrade. I pull something like 1500 watts WOT. 2500/3000 peak sounds better.
BMS is good for 30 cont. and barely gets warm. I was told it can handle more peak.
4.Lipo18s18ah nano tech sounds about right.
5. A rear brake and a proper helmet. No mo BMX Wally cap.
How about a full face helmet with built in rear face camera and screen?

Anyways I can ramble, so please ask questions. I have lots pics.
And will post a 1500watt Burnout vid for y'all when its light. Gets dark early in the north.

Brent

[SamTexas]

What a creation! At first look, I thought you had a small geared hub up front (in addition to the big rear hub).

What size is that frame? Looks like a 25 to me. With that much room in the triangle (if you can still call it a triangle) you should not have any problem fitting an 18s18Ah battery.

Are you going to keep the 20" wheels? How are you going to install the rear brake? Disc? Be careful pedaling. I have a "normal" bike and I still scrape my pedals and crash on turns.

One minor suggestion: Instead of having the battery pack paralleled with the top tube, consider paralleling it with the downtube. A lower center of gravity might result in better handling.

[Brentis]

What a creation! At first look, I thought you had a small geared hub up front (in addition to the big rear hub).

What size is that frame? Looks like a 25 to me. With that much room in the triangle (if you can still call it a triangle) you should not have any problem fitting an 18s18Ah battery.

Are you going to keep the 20" wheels? How are you going to install the rear brake? Disc? Be careful pedaling. I have a "normal" bike and I still scrape my pedals and crash on turn
One minor suggestion: Instead of having the battery pack paralleled with the top tube, consider paralleling it with the downtube. A lower center of gravity might result in better handling.

Thanks Sam

Frame is XL (I'd have to measure for inches) I can "just" pedal it, seat dropped to the bar with my 30" inseam

I am in love with 20" wheels. Or more correctly High speed wind in a 20" wheel.
Acceleration is strong. 0- 40kph like right now.
Quick steering/handling demands attention but rewards with fun.
Disc brake? what's a d i s c?
No, future upgrades include regen. and basic v-brake custom fit.
Until I take it over 50 kph, I'm comfortable with the big drum & regen/v-brake.
I'm more comfortable with the 90mm Sturmey Drum, than any box store cable pull disc brakes.

Be careful pedaling. I have a "normal" bike and I still scrape my pedals and crash on turns.

That is sage advice. I always brought the turn in pedal up, but with this bike it's mandatory. Bonus is, Pedal works as kickstand.

One minor suggestion: Instead of having the battery pack paralleled with the top tube, consider paralleling it with the downtube. A lower center of gravity might result in better handling

I considered it, even template'd it. But aesthetics won out, so I mounted it quasi-gas tank style.
Cg is a little high but still superior to rear rack.

Thanks for the kind words Sam, future Bikes will be much more polished.

Brent

[thewmatusmoloki]

I like it.
congrats.

Ride safe and enjoy !

[Brentis]

A couple of things I forgot to mention.
The vendors.
-Cell_man was awesome, answered all my questions a concerns and produced this beaut.

The Battery 52v 11.5ah A123, 30amp cont. BMS, 6amp charger Thank you Cell_man.JPG (238.97 KiB) Viewed 2861 times

- Maxwell65 supplied controller,throttle,E-brakes. Unbeatable prices. Great communication.

Crystalyte 48v 35amp controller, throttle, brakes,keyed switch sourced from Maxwell65.jpg (134.46 KiB) Viewed 2861 times

-Last but not least, Ken from It's Electric. Like others, my HS3540 had the cut wires problem.
Ken was on top of it, got it fixed under warranty local to me.
Thanks, John & crew @ Bay City Cycle in Pickering,ON.
Awesome Store.

As promised earlier here it is, A 1500watt Burnout. Enjoy



Brent

[dogman]

Cool approach. Pedal strike not an issue, why pedal? I like to pedal, but I sure have bikes I never pedal. The low bb would be an issue in trail riding, but not on the street. She's a keeper. Keep the bike too.

[fractal]

Hi Brent, I like custom made things...this build cant get much more custom than that, cool bike!!! What does it feel like riding 20 inch wheels on a big frame??? I guess you have more balance because of the lower COG?

[Brentis]

Cool approach. Pedal strike not an issue, why pedal? I like to pedal, but I sure have bikes I never pedal. The low bb would be an issue in trail riding, but not on the street. She's a keeper. Keep the bike too.

Thanks Dogman. It's very rewarding to me, to have someone I admire, comment positively on this project,
Pedal strike is an issue. I have investigated 140mm crank arms, but for the amount I pedal(little if any), as long as I am careful it works out.
Pedaling in a straight line is fine, turn at all, and you have to bring the turn-in pedal up.
Low BB is more of an issue. I ride about 75% street, 20% single track, 5% bushwacking.
I like this bike for trails alot, like a heavy BMX bike, but I do have to lift over obstacles, that other bike can clear.
So no bush races But I haven't had to turn around yet.

Definitely a keeper. I will clean it up over the long Canadian winter, before moving onto a whole new project.

***Hint***
The motor from this. 10" 500 watt 40+mph de-restricted

Baja 500.jpeg (5.68 KiB) Viewed 2753 times

plus
This frame. 210mm dropout spacing.

GT_S_top_class_e_bike.jpg (120.81 KiB) Viewed 2753 times

plus Lipo, quality fork&shock =
FrankenScoot.

Hi Brent, I like custom made things...this build cant get much more custom than that, cool bike!!! What does it feel like riding 20 inch wheels on a big frame??? I guess you have more balance because of the lower COG?

I am a small wheel convert.
I love the acceleration of a high speed wind/in a small wheel.
20" wheels seem to have the effect of much quicker steering than 26"ers.
Low, centered Cog, may be bigger factors, I'm no engineer.
Think about turning and it's done. This is not a hands-free ride.
Demands attention, but that's the way I ride. Deep Focus.

Thank you both, for the kind words.

Brent

[dogman]

Hmm, maybe a suspension corrected front fork adding 100 mm or so, or just shock fork, balanced on the rear by a welded on extended rear dropout pushing the rear wheel further down by the same distance? Lengthen the wheelbase and raise the bb at the same time. Without changing rake angles or any of that.

One of my dirt bikes had a lower bb, and 160 mm cranks. Still whacked pedal constantly on dirt, since trails here are very rocky. Ditched that one for a taller bike and don't pedal strike as much. But then, I powered that bike up so much I almost never pedal a stroke on it. On street, you quickly get used to pedaling a half turn every corner.

[ronnieb52]

.

[amberwolf]

FWIW, there is an entire class of bicycle whose very definition includes that you can rest it on the pedal for a "kickstand": The Burrito.

[Brentis]

Thanks for the info AW. I had not heard this term before. So I have a
Electric Burrito
E Burrito
52v Burrito.



Brent

[amberwolf]

Well, there are other things a Burrito usually has, such as a very long very low body (practically scraping the ground if possible, and as wide a turning radius as possible, sometimes impractically so), but the pedal/kickstand thing is a definite.

[liveforphysics]

I like it.

[neptronix]

I think it's funny how 20" wheels can automatically make something look like a 'tallbike'.

Just crazy enough for me to love.

Your lady is much like mine. I'll let her know that a new motor ( or something ) just came out, and she'll ask me when i'm going to buy it.. well trained

[Brentis]

Update...

*edit*
A renaming & some dark teaser pics. iPhone

1. Dark pic shows what it would look like black..JPG (102.86 KiB) Viewed 831 times

2. Dark pic shows what it would look like black. Front3rd.JPG (96.05 KiB) Viewed 831 times

3. Dark pic shows what it would look like black. Front..JPG (61.87 KiB) Viewed 831 times

4. Dark pic shows what it would look like black. Rear 3rd..JPG (63.02 KiB) Viewed 831 times

Since I decided to kill the "Baja Rat".
Ripping its arms, heart & brain from the carcass.
To be transplanted to a more suitable body.
FrankenBike
Mouu HAHAHAHAHAHA
See "ScootBike" in sig.

I shall put "Ghetto" back together.
Lets start the rebuild.

First things first. Lets limit the use of Duct Tape on this rebuild.

Foam and duct tape battery case 2.JPG (63.07 KiB) Viewed 846 times

Foam and duct tape battery case.JPG (54.66 KiB) Viewed 846 times

Foam and duct tape battery case 3.JPG (69.49 KiB) Viewed 846 times

That battery "case" was not to be underestimated.
2lbs. of Dollarstore foam bathmat wrapped around the battery.
Gently apply 2 or 3 rolls of Dollarstore Duct Tape.
One "Nerf-like" 52v 11.5ah Cell_man Beaut.
I had to do Red Green proud on my first build.



I am lookin' to upgrade "Ghetto" to something,well, a little less ghetto.

Stay tuned...

[Brentis]

Update...

Stripped back to a bare frame.

Almost naked.
Custom fender light solution added.
Drilled 2 holes zip tied a clear front, red rear.
Simple led lights from M.E.C. $10
Fenders also from M.E.C. $30 IIRC.
Just to be seen. @ 40kph I have better vision than the light provides.
I have Owl-like night vision.

A blank canvas.JPG (73.58 KiB) Viewed 843 times

2 bottle mounts are a plus.
Not necessarily needed.
There are other solutions.

Lots of room for Battery&components.JPG (74.47 KiB) Viewed 843 times

Get some cardboard & get cuttin'
Best to have your battery dimensions before hand.
To make a tight fit, with the Top tube.
Creating open/negative space between battery & crank.
Conversely, you could minimize the size of the bridge,
leaving, open/negative space between toptube and Batt/comp.
I like the "Gas tank" look.

Make a battery bridge template.JPG (72.54 KiB) Viewed 843 times

Prototype battery case for bridge sizing.

Battery wraped in wood. Perspective..JPG (59.82 KiB) Viewed 843 times

Got a template trim'd out nicely.

Template done..JPG (58.83 KiB) Viewed 843 times

As before, I will use the 3 1/2" x 8' steel wall stud.
To make a conversion you only need basic tool.
This conversion method is the cheapest & easiest, I could envision.
I recommend buying 2 or 3 studs. I can get 2 bridges per stud.
You will screw a few up. Trust me. They were $3-$4 @ H.Depot
Better to get it right than compensate for a bad cut/bend.
Sometimes the bend just doesn't follow the intended line.
Tip. buy a new pair of tin snips. Your old ones may look sharp.
A brand new pair will cut much straighter/consistently, it's worth the expense.
$25 on sale. Premium brand, with some special coating.
Made life much easier.

Only need basic hand tools.JPG (48.98 KiB) Viewed 843 times

Cutting & bending the Battery Bridge to come.

Stay tuned...

[Brentis]

For you Lipo lovers.

Could do something like this..JPG (79.31 KiB) Viewed 840 times

Excuse the crude MS Paint work.
Would lower CoG.
I could comfortably carry 12 x 6s packs.
Potentially 44.4v 48ah.
Or 88.8v24ah

But alas this bike is destined to be a legal'ish Rock solid reliable, 40kph commuter bike.
Something I wont have to touch for years.
A bike for a newb to try out. Girlfriend bike.
I'll save Lipo for "ScootBike" & the otherside of my personality

[Brentis]

A proposal

Simplicity' proposed paint job..JPG (86.01 KiB) Viewed 807 times

I love it.
A tribute to LFP' Pinkbike.
I think rattle can florescent pink on the frame,fork & stem.
The battery bridge flat black'd.

I think as close to theft proof a this bike is gonna git.

Notice new/old seat.
This spring unit, from the Strong GTS ebike.
Makes a huge difference in the ride quality & fun of this bike,
over the rock seat that I ran all last summer/fall. 3000kms+
I would like to try a Thudbuster some day.
Wouldn't work with this frame though.

I consider myself a "Hardcore" Biker.
I 'm comfortable @ 35mph/56+ kph with a Rigid Bike. 40kph avg.
Adding a suspended seat just 2x the fun

If not Pink, its getting a flat black bomb.
Black is always my preference, but has been done to death.
But,
What heterosexual male doesn't like Pink
It's my second favorite colour.

Opinions...

[Brentis]

Update...


Creating your own battery bridge.

I kind of glossed over this part of the build process previously.
This is the simplest, cheapest, KISS method of getting the batteries mass where it belongs, in the frame.
I believe any Newb with a triangle framed hardtail bike, can use/adapt this build process to their advantage.

As you can see, a line wraps around the stud, where the cuts/bend will be made.

Place template on stud & mark off the cuts and bends..JPG (53.82 KiB) Viewed 773 times

Ideally you want to snip the side right up to the horizontal plane. Not past/not short.
Notice that the stud naturally bends once cut, the opposite direction of what we want, easy to overcome.

First cut.JPG (63.2 KiB) Viewed 773 times

If measured/cut correctly, pinch the left&right shoulders in.
Then bend to 90 degree angle. It should be very easy.

4 cuts made. Bending started..JPG (71.3 KiB) Viewed 773 times

If you bend any further than 90* you will deform the top/horizontal plane. The sides will dig in.
45* snip'd out for the seat to BB post will suffice for a rough fit.

Cuttings to bend past 90..JPG (63.72 KiB) Viewed 773 times

the steering to BB post requires a more radical cut to work.
Much greater bend angle.

The steeper the angle the more you need to cut..JPG (55.93 KiB) Viewed 773 times

Trim'n to do

rough fit front.JPG (59.52 KiB) Viewed 773 times

Trim'n to do

rough fit front close up.JPG (72.54 KiB) Viewed 773 times

Trim'n to do.

rough fit rear.JPG (50.48 KiB) Viewed 773 times

Sorry guys time just ran out.
I'll edit in some pics/process & notes a little later.

Stay tuned...

[agniusm]

Get rid of those fenders bro, looks bloody awful. Get some for 20" wheels

[Brentis]

No way.
I love them thar' fenders
Reminds me of supermoto/ motard bikes for some reason.
For me, fenders are mandatory on a commuter .
These FULL-fenders are very functional.
Best I have used yet, even with 3" gap.

[dnmun]

ok, i like the blue bike better. the mix of wood, battery, and crisp metal, sharp orthogonal features, like the open office architecture, where the duct work and beams are exposed, it looks sharp, imo.

[Brentis]

Continued from earlier.

Now you have the "rough" outline of the triangle.

rough fit.JPG (113.84 KiB) Viewed 753 times

A Canadian delight for perspective.
Notice massive gaps & bad cuts.
This was prototype #1. Failure.
Luckily you can get two bridges per 8' stud.
Still, unless you are particularly handy, understand geometry, or have a lot of metal bending experience.
Buy 2 or 3 studs. They are 3-6 bucks per depending on length, width, gauge.
The unit I used are almost $4 IIRC.
You will screw a couple up, if you are a newb like me.

The Cheez Whiz Perspective..JPG (61.33 KiB) Viewed 753 times

Shows over cut. Dang it.
This one bent real good.
I frock'd up/learned alot.

The Cheez Whiz Perspective 2.JPG (63.28 KiB) Viewed 753 times

Measure & drill precise holes for the H2O holders.
I butchered 2 perfectly good cut/bent bridges by miss measuring.
This measurement, like all measurements I suppose, is critical.
It sets the angle of the bridge.
If it's off just a lil'.
So Sorry. Re-do.
@ this point I am using prototype #6

bottle mount holes drilled.JPG (65.82 KiB) Viewed 753 times

The first useable iteration lasted 3000kms+
Used J-B Stik. To "Weld" the corners together.
Creating 1pc. It worked well.
I sandwiched a coin (loonie) size amount between top/side shoulders.
I used a dowel cut a bit longer than the width of the stud, then a clamp to squeeze/let dry.
I then pulled the dowel & Waa la.
A solid piece.
@ about 2500kms a joint did fail, introducing NVH issues.
It was tolerable. I rode out the season.

Horizontal shoulder pinched, flattened.JPG (72.65 KiB) Viewed 753 times

Stay tuned...

[agniusm]

i think you have used the wrong logic about your homo bike. the guys who steal it for scrap metal won't care about the color.

but the gay boys will wanna steal it for fag value. that is 5-10 times the number of tweakers who would steal it.

plus they will always be asking you if you need a place to plug in. to get a charge loaded in your ride.

can't win for losing. just increased the odds it gets stolen.

front shock fork would be cool too. for boingy boinking.


shame on me.

No shame on retarded person at all. The thing is nobody laughing. Perhaps would be wrong to laugh at a person who was most likely molested as a child. Just a remark, there is no point to trash somebody's thread!!

:lol: No way.
I love them thar' fenders
Reminds me of supermoto/ motard bikes for some reason.
For me, fenders are mandatory on a commuter .
These FULL-fenders are very functional.
Best I have used yet, even with 3" gap.

I meant full fenders, only the ones for 20" wheels