"peak power" - Trek 4300 20" Magic Pie build.

[gensem]

Neptronix If you need to keep at least 30mph going up 10%+ hills you might fry the pie even in such a short course.

[neptronix]

I might need to go up to 30mph, but i only need to do 25mph average to win, which will be NO problem they'd really have to redesign their bike this year to come even close. That bottom bracket motor of theirs is certainly near it's thermal limit in the 1100 watt form. I'll be doing about 2000w constant.

I have some tricks up my sleeve, guys. I won't mention them on a public forum, but i think that i can make the pie handle a bit over 2000w continuously. When i hooked up 120v/30s, that's about what it was running when i was doing 38-42mph constant for 10 miles, and only ended up 100F at the side cover. This made me pretty hopeful. This was during colder weather though.

[jmygann]

the competition .....

http://blog2.optibike.com/2012/03/19/vi ... 0r-part-1/

[neptronix]

the competition .....

http://blog2.optibike.com/2012/03/19/vi ... 0r-part-1/

Don't worry, already did my research. Rode that bike in person a few months ago, saw the factory, etc ( details buried in this post, lol. )

It's got pretty good power, but it's weak in comparison to what we build here. Very advantageous on hills though.
Funny thing about the throttle response.. it's basically an on-off switch like the MAC/BMC motors are on infineon EB2 - there is about 1 degree of throttle rotation between slamming 50-100ft-lb of torque into that poor little rear hub ( which makes a slam/clunk sound ) and not doing anything. I thought that was strange considering that they designed their own controller - not an infineon. But it makes since why one guy basically burned out from the starting line during the last race. Power wheelie!

[Whiplash]

Wow! Only $14,0000.00! Ill take two!! Lol! Insane price for what I would consider a mid grade Ebike... Go get em Neptronix!! I could understand about half that price, but come on people..its still a bicycle, and an ugly one at that...

[Tom Tom]

I certainly agree Whiplash.

I think Tench's big hit ( viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489 )with a mid drive is one really sweet bike.

If someone made frames like his available for sale they could run with the opti's

[veloman]

$14k, and people are slamming Stealth for their 9 or 10k bikes......


I'll take my homemade Mac + A123 and few hundred $ full suspension built that cost about $1200.


I think Opti is really pushing the limits of their prices. I don't really blame them though, they have essentially no competition, just like Stealth. If someone is going to drop 8k on an ebike, that same person also likely has the money to drop 14k on one. Can you say niche market?

[neptronix]

GOD DAMN, magic pie motors stink like hell when you open them~!!!







Looks like plenty of room to put goodies in.. ;D

Looks like you could fit another motor inside the motor.. XZibit, where are you when i need you most?

[neptronix]

Guys;

Shit just got crazy.
I may be running two 26" pies. One rear, one front. I have an opportunity to buy a few of them used as a package.
This 20" and it's geometry issues are just no good, man. I've got basically a downhill bike geometry, but i'm going uphill. After riding some major uphill recently, i feel like i am asking for a darwin award basically.

Luke says it's a suboptimal situation, but why the hell not. 1500w constant on each motor is good for 30-40mph.
16lb on the front wheel is good ballast.

Opinions?

[Spicerack]

Guys;


Opinions?

Do it!

[zombiess]

Do it

[Whiplash]

Lol, that should be funny when you go by them like they are on pedal bikes! Lol! It would be awesome to get to the finish when they are half way!!

[Brentis]

Do it.
God damn you
Do it.

[Brentis]

Can I call dibs when your done with the 20" Pie?
Maybe a partial trade for my Hx3540?

Best of luck to ya up the hill.
Then Zombiess 2nd, if he shows.

[Brentis]

Guys;

...
Luke says it's a suboptimal situation, but why the hell not. 1500w constant on each motor is good for 30-40mph.
16lb on the front wheel is good ballast.

Opinions?

I agree with LFP not optimal design, but as a dedicated, racing electric bicycle, splitting the load across the two motors should allow you to run significantly cooler @ your targeted speed.
Or, you could run faster/hotter.
Set the record higher

Consider "ass" Pie, front Mac.
Use the freewheeling, lighter front motor as a helper if the Pie needs it.

Best of luck.

[neptronix]

Can I call dibs when your done with the 20" Pie?
Maybe a partial trade for my Hx3540?

Best of luck to ya up the hill.
Then Zombiess 2nd, if he shows.

I'd actually love to get rid of the 20" pie right now. I'll include the tube and 2.3" BMX tire. It's in pristine condition for the most part. $170 plus shipping sound fair?
Not interested in the HS/HT though, sorry.. . Shouldn't be too hard selling it though.

[Brentis]

That's a fair price.
But I rescind my dibs.
Was hopin' for a trade.
Should sell to someone local/closer.
After shipping, (tax & customs maybe), it would make sense to just buy direct from Gary.
He is about an hour drive from my place, and have family minutes from him.
Good luck on the sale.

So have you decided on a dual hub setup?

[neptronix]

Lol yeah, i was thinking that. I'd be better off shipping the conUS.. you may be saving maybe $10 buying used from me, so forget it.

Pretty sure i'm gonna rock the dual setup I'd rather have a cromotor.. less weight, lower voltage etc.. but i just can't swing it ... .. and the MP is a good motor for toolin' around town after the race anyway.

[zombiess]

Neptronix, if I make the event which I am planning to do right now ill gladly lend you a motor setup in a wheel or a whole bike if I have a spare. Even if you ride a dual pie setup it would be cool to ride together so we can frock pikes peak at the same time. But we shouldn't let our motors touch. I'm starting to sound like phillistine lol.

[auraslip]

nep, I have you thought about oil cooling?
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=34369&hilit=cooled&start=45

Check this out:

Setup summary:
The hub is filled to just below the axle with 400ml ATF.
The temperature sensor is fitted in the windings at the top, not in the oil pool.
The hall sensors are sitting at the bottom, in the oil pool.
The hub is a 7 turn MXUS running at 66v, 4.5kw peak power.
Ambient temperature during testing was 8 to 10 deg C

My regular 9 mile round trip takes in some sections of 20% gradient. I rode the same route at the same speeds (stopping mid point) with identical motors, exept that only one of them was oil cooled.
This route, when ridden briskly, burns about half of my 15AH battery capacity.
In short:

Max measured winding temp No oil ----> 140 C, with oil ------> 55C
Finish point winding temp .... No oil ----> 106 C, with oil ------> 38C

That's pretty incredible. You might even be able to do the same with your mac motor and compete.

That being said, I may be in the market for a 24" magic pie.

[o00scorpion00o]

What's opti's average up the peak?

Surely the pie in a 24" can beat it? Dave have you not gone up there yet?

Come on man, get on it!!!

[neptronix]

Neptronix, if I make the event which I am planning to do right now ill gladly lend you a motor setup in a wheel or a whole bike if I have a spare. Even if you ride a dual pie setup it would be cool to ride together so we can frock pikes peak at the same time. But we shouldn't let our motors touch. I'm starting to sound like phillistine lol.

If you definitely have a motor for me to borrow, then i'll sell off the pie now and stop worrying about this build & chalk it up to experience & a demonstration of what a motor that doesn't get fair air time on here can do..

Having two 26" pies would be nice, but after the race i'd just end up riding my MAC most of the time.

Got two frames with some pretty major torque plates on em. I'm down to represent team greyborg 4 sure.

[zombiess]

I suggest not selling anything until I actually know for a fact what's going on with me attending.

[neptronix]

gotcha

[neptronix]

Oh screw it. I don't know what to do anymore. Just gonna order the 2.75" pirelli and raise the seat post for better uphill "geometry".

Been pretty indecisive lately...