Voicecoil's red, fully rigid commuter

[voicecoils]

48kph on reasonably level ground, no pedaling. I need a longer stretch to see what the full runout is. I forgot to press 'start' on my bike GPS so I didn't have downloadable data for my short ride.

No load is 64kph hot off the charger IIRC at 72v nominal.

Yes, once more properly tested I'll step down to 2 nylon 1 metal and see how that holds up. The current bearings may be part of the increased noise. As the gear faces wear they may quiet down too.

A few things I want to test are:

* WOT from a complete stop (with and without pedaling, 36v and 72v nominal)
* hills of varying lengths and gradients (variables as above)

Phase wires are very thin may not handle extended 1.5kW+ power levels. Then there's the thermal issues for the windings and hall sensors. I don't have a method of measuring the internal temperature to determine when/if meltdown might occur. I certainly want to avoid complete motor destruction.

Handling actually feels fine but without the batteries in the triangle it's a moot point so far. Until I'm battling traffic, winding my way around cars, and generally hammering along in good and bad weather I won't know how problematic a front hubmotor may be.

I do know that the bike feels like a jackhammer when it hits rough roads at higher speeds though :O I don't think I'll be curb jumping, but fortunately I rarely need to.

I do need to sort out a battery box soon, either take you up on your offer Mark if it still stands, sew something soft together, or try my hand at a ally box myself.

Cheers!

[voicecoils]

The bike has another 30km's on it now, still with batteries in the backpack. At 72v nominal it can hold 45kph or so through bends and very gentle inclines with no human input.

For my particular commute I think 60v nominal would be the sweet spot since I personally *DO* wish to pedal. Not pedaling feels awkward as does pedaling in too easy a gear.

Kept it pinned WOT down a long hill and I could feel it continued to assist over 60kph, just. That was a tribrid power system: legs, gravity, hubmotor and as far as power output I probably would have been legal

I don't need to go 60kph often and would not want to without suspension.

I need to do more testing but my inclination is the following:

0v - 100/0 split
36v - 70/30 split
48v - 50/50 split
60v - 30/70 split (untested)
72v - 20/80 split

the splits indicate percentage human effort / hubmotor assist. They do not correspond directly to respective power outputs. In otherwords, at 48v for example I would arrive at work half as exhausted as I would otherwise arrive with a pedal-only bicycle.

[recumbent]

at 48v for example I would arrive at work half as exhausted as I would otherwise arrive with a pedal-only bicycle.

I don't get it, perhaps you have very steep hills? I can ride my 48 volt bike for two hours and don't get tired at all, and i'm outa shape.

You've been working on this bike for half a year and still haven't mounted your batteries yet.

Took me only one afternoon to complete my bike conversion from bare bike to roadworthy Ebike. This includes complete dependability for 5,000 km's.

It seems to me (and many others i'm sure) that building the bike is more important than anything. Which is fine ofcourse, i just hope some folks don't get the idea it's a long and difficult ordeal, because it's not, it's an easy one afternoon build if your prepared.

Now mount those batteries Mr. Red Ridgid, and show us that you can actually complete a project.

[Russell]

I don't get it, perhaps you have very steep hills? I can ride my 48 volt bike for two hours and don't get tired at all, and i'm outa shape.

A bit off-topic but I recall returning from a bike ride once (non-powered) all sweaty and tired and someone said to me "you sweat when you ride a bike?". I wasn't going to argue the point at the time but I thought it was kinda funny like saying "you sweat when you exercise?". The point being you determine how much effort you put into the activity so even if you have a big honkin' motor on your bike you can still choose to input a power level which would put you at your red zone...or barely raise your pulse.



-R

[voicecoils]

You've been working on this bike for half a year and still haven't mounted your batteries yet.

Took me only one afternoon to complete my bike conversion from bare bike to roadworthy Ebike. This includes complete dependability for 5,000 km's.

It seems to me (and many others i'm sure) that building the bike is more important than anything.

I'm not out to prove anything to the E-S community. I have my build log which people can follow or ignore. I post questions, post useful information, and help others where I can and feel qualified.

According to your profile, you've gone for the two arguably best kits out there in terms of quality: Heinzmann and Bionx. I've gone a different route and sourced parts individually from all over the world. I'm not supprised your kits were plug and play and just worked. That's great

I've had a number of holds and setbacks such as the nylon gear saga and a 3 month wait for batteries. Other kits, such as ebike.ca's eZee kit are probably also a great setup to get going in one afternoon.

My time and tools are limited. My end goal for this bike is a reliable commuter. I'm not there yet.

Can't help ya'll if you're impatient to see the end result

[voicecoils]

... The point being you determine how much effort you put into the activity so even if you have a big honkin' motor on your bike you can still choose to input a power level which would put you at your red zone...or barely raise your pulse.

Your post is very much appropriate. I have 4 different bikes on the road at the moment. My heart rate monitor's upper limit audible warning beeps frequently on all the bikes when I'm on them. Much depends on how hard you ride.

[Reid Welch]

different strokes of build time, design, etc, for different folks.

my shift key is broken. i have been very slow to assemble my super simple ezee coaster brake bike conversion.

why....because i think and wait and wait to think and so come up short in the build speed dept.

instead i think 95 percent of the time, do nothing another 98 percent of the time.

yet, when a project is finished to rideable perfection, all the time lost, was lost in dreaming.

in the meanwhile i ride my singlespeed manually. people ask questions anyway.

a man the other day said 'nice bike, what is it'. i explained. he's a working dad with a labrador and a two year old.

'gee, if i got the bug to have something like that, could you help me build it'.

yes. advice and presence would be free. results.....would be at a speed he'd choose.

i'm slow. slow is good. gives you time to think while pedaling.


sick keyboard, not so well writer.

r.

ps...never flag or furl.

[voicecoils]

yes, people spend different amounts of time on projects.


UPDATE:

2 Problems:

1) My plug in CA has died. Backlight comes on with battery power but either the screen stays blank or gives me garbage. Problem appeared after the bike exhibited a 'pulsing sensation' like the CA & x'lyte 72v40A analogue controller's current limiting was not operating correctly.

2) My Bafang PMGR key is GONE! I opened my bafang recently to check on the metal gears, they were fine so I re-assembled. Tried the motor out today and it freewheeled in both directions, WTF I thought. Opened it up and it turns out the key that sits in the axle keyway and in the freewheel keyway (holding them together) is missing. Gone. I've scoured the floor, gone through my vacume cleaner bag nothing. It could have fallen out, been slung out somewhere, who knows. I'll continue to look for it but the hubmotor is unusable without it.

Anyone know the key specs for a front Bafang PMGR with 28tooth planetary gears?

[Reid Welch]

make your own key from soft steel keystock and a file and time.

there was an era when all machine parts other than lathe work, were hand fitted by file, chisel, saw.
all you need is a file and vise and hacksaw to length. fit it as precisely as possible.
tap fit. today we have locktite. then, they had piss and patience. i am talking 1848 stuff.
why, you don't even have to cut a key seat. the mechanic did that by hand, by feel, in soft steel, with a hard chisel.
hours don't count. skill and make-do, do.

[HAL9000v2.0]

Chek the magnets on motor. Once I looked for a screw that fell out of motor for an hour then I found it on the magnets.

[pwbset]

My plug in CA has died. Backlight comes on with battery power but either the screen stays blank or gives me garbage.

Oh man, that looks familiar. I would get that garbled crap all the time and then a complete fade away. What voltage are you running again??

My symtpoms:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5959

What fixed it for me:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6823

Been fine since... good luck.

[voicecoils]

Oh man, that looks familiar. I would get that garbled crap all the time and then a complete fade away. What voltage are you running again??
My symtpoms:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5959
What fixed it for me:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6823
Been fine since... good luck.

Thanks. I think your experience is similar to mine, hopefully the solution will be too. After more testing, my CA will struggle to life at 36v (fading in and out), barely start up at 48v, and wont do it at all at 72v. I made 3 respective youtube videos. direct plug in CA on top, stand alone CA on the bottom. I'll be contacting Justin when it's Monday in Vancouver. I'm sure a solution can be found or sorted out.

I love the CA, make no mistake!!!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=SgKhacOcc9E&fmt=18
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=_SCFcKFhOw0&fmt=18
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=34iv1QoYiAs&fmt=18

(note: I have not embeded the youtube videos because these are direct links to the higher quality versions. They're not the most clear so I wouldn't even bother with the normal quality versions)

[voicecoils]

Hal and Reid,

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try to locate the darn key. If not I may try to make one myself as suggested.

I don't mind spending time with a file, but I would want to used a hardened key stock material and that's not easy to find.

[HAL9000v2.0]

"Up here" you can find standard key in any bearing shop for a few cents. Don't know how is down there...

[voicecoils]

"Up here" you can find standard key in any bearing shop for a few cents. Don't know how is down there...

Thanks. Engineering shops here don't want to talk to guys off the street. They want large and easily repeatable jobs.

If I could find a engineering shop that had the key stock already in the correct size, they would likely charge a AU$100 set-up fee to use a machine to cut an appropriate length off it.

I'll keep at it. Keywin will be asking Bafang for me if they can source one.

[TPA]

Does Keywin have a website?

[Mark_A_W]

No, a bearing shop, not an engineering shop.

Try CBC bearings, ask for keystock - best is to just show up and see what they got.



How on earth did the key fall out? It would be pressed in....

[Drunkskunk]

Drill bits are hardened steel, and cheap. easy enough to grind one down to the shape you need. An afternoon with a few beers an an angle grinder should have you a new shaft Key. Worked for lawn mower I repaired for a friend once.

I bet you'll step on the original key the moment you finish making the new key, too!


I wouldn't sweat not being finished. You started Months after me, and I'm still not done with my latest build. I'm in no hurry either.

[voicecoils]

Does Keywin have a website?

no idea actually. He's eBay member 'ecrazyman' on eBay. And the same membername at gmail D0T com as well. He as a store on eBay.

[voicecoils]

No, a bearing shop, not an engineering shop.
Try CBC bearings, ask for keystock - best is to just show up and see what they got.

How on earth did the key fall out? It would be pressed in....

Cool, thanks Mark. If keywin has access to them for a few $$ then that's probably the simplest route and I'll get multiple just in case1!

The key was always completely loose. So much for tolerances
It sits proud in the keyed part of the axle (loosely). Then the exposed bit slots into the keyed section of the freewheeling mechanism. You'll likely find that yours is the same, but it may not be. Heck, when you opened up your motor while I was at your place your key may have fallen out!

It was surrounded by grease from the gears, and when I wiped the excess grease away to check the gears I may have dislodged it. I may have even thrown it out with the excess grease!!!

[voicecoils]

Drill bits are hardened steel, and cheap. easy enough to grind one down to the shape you need. An afternoon with a few beers an an angle grinder should have you a new shaft Key. Worked for lawn mower I repaired for a friend once.

very good idea. I'll give that a shot if I run out of ready made options.

I bet you'll step on the original key the moment you finish making the new key, too!

yeah, that's the way it usually goes

I wouldn't sweat not being finished. You started Months after me, and I'm still not done with my latest build. I'm in no hurry either.

Cheers, it will happen. Some things take time

[voicecoils]

Thanks. I think your experience is similar to mine, hopefully the solution will be too. After more testing, my CA will struggle to life at 36v (fading in and out), barely start up at 48v, and wont do it at all at 72v. I made 3 respective youtube videos. direct plug in CA on top, stand alone CA on the bottom. I'll be contacting Justin when it's Monday in Vancouver. I'm sure a solution can be found or sorted out.

I love the CA, make no mistake!!!

Ok, as per Justin's instructions I soldered a 1/4 watt 490 Ohm resistor to R9 on the LCD PCB. In otherwords, it's soldered in parallel to the existing R9 SMD resistor.

The CA now works FINE at 80V !!! Woohoo, one fix down. Now I just need to get my key happening and build a damn battery box.

[voicecoils]

Not the best soldering job but these photos show what I've done. The important thing is that it works, and is glued solidly in place.

This should not necessary with newer plug in CA as the design has been changed to be more flexible with higher voltages.

You'll want to click on the last photo to see it full size.

Any questions?

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[voicecoils]

second problem fixed. I made a key from stainless steel plate. Fits more tightly then the original!

Tools used: bike work stand, adjustable pipe wrench, hack saw, dremel, and cutting oil.

for anyone interested the key is 5mm x 5mm x 12mm long. The last mm is a half moon shape.

This fix is dedicated to Methods and his ghetto ebike construction in the kitchen ways.

Oh, and for anyone freezing their ass off elsewhere in the world, it was more then 90 degrees F here today and more then 110 degrees F in otherparts of Australia.

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[Mark_A_W]

Well done Abraham.


And yeah, it was 47.5 deg C at my place here in Melbourne , or 117.5 F....in the shade. (Official top was 46.4 = hottest day ever.)

With 60kmh+ winds. The sky was a weird orangey-pink colour from the smoke.

Half the state is on fire - it's not as bad as Ash Wednesday in 83, but it's not good. All my vegies and ferns are toast.




Oh, the orange Mongoose rides again - I finished the build this morning in my shed...when it was only frickin unbelievably hot, not thermo nuclear. I was completely drenched in sweat, it was kinda surreal.



And you really, really, need a vice and a workbench. You got a deck or a balcony or something? Stick it out there and make a cover for the vice.