canadian tire store elect bikes.

joco

100 mW
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
35
hi all.

in this weel flyers theres some schwin electric bikes.

the eco tour at 699$
invidia at 649$
premise at 999$

((just put electric bike in the search section and you will see the elec bikes.))
http://www.canadiantire.ca/home.jsp

are those good bikes.??

seems to be a bit higher price then the one at wall mart last year at closer to 399$


joco
 
still more then twice the price off those.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8467094


so is it twice as good.mmmmmmmm?????

joco
 
It really depends on what you're looking for in an electric bike.
Personally, I think Canadian Tire and Walmart (well ... their suppliers really ...) are doing a disservice to the ebike industry by selling under-powered garbage that make too many people believe that electric bikes are lame and not worth a thing.
When trying to judge the price of an electric bike, consider that most people who have done the conversions themselves have invested $1000+ in parts alone to electrify their existing peddle bike.
Whats the difference, and where do the Canadian Tire bikes fall short? It's mostly in the batteries. Most of those bikes will be 24 V systems, while most conversions start at 36V - the significance is that with a 'typical' motor you will get roughly 1 km/h per volt, so a 24 V system will get you about 20 to 24 km/h, and a 36 V system will get you anywhere from 32 to 36 km/h.
Next is range - I haven't looked at the specs for those ebikes, but the range - at full throttle - will likely only be a few km, generally designed for use around your neighborhood ... so maybe a good 5 km. In comparison, home conversions, where people have invested $500 in batteries alone will go full tilt for 30 km.
My big problem with the Canadian Tire bike is they are catering to folks who don't want to peddle a bike for an easy 5 km (which isn't an entirely fare comment because there are plenty of folks who have minor disabilities, and these ebikes would be awesome for them to get back on the road - and for them, these bikes are fantastic). And this simple fact make the general public turn away from what could be a great mode of transporation.
 
I say, be the change you want to see. If you want to be cheap, buy cheap stuff. You'll have cheap stuff, but you'll still have some money. I have nice stuff and no money. I try to do the best work I can at my job - and would rather trade hard earned $$ for the products of people who care as much about quality as I do.

At least, joco, you're here asking the right people.

I say build your own, from quality parts, or get a reputable bike shop like cyclepath on the danforth to build you a bionx.
 
wen i went to the ottawa green show 2 weeks ago.

i saw 2 booth where they were selling electric bikes.

one off them was..

http://www.acclivity.ca/electric_bike.html

they did had some nice bikes there cool.ones.


and there is those loaly to.

http://pedaless.ca/Site/Home_Pedaless_Bikes_Corp..html

joco
 
joco, what is your budget? Be realistic. $1000? $2000? $2500?

Do you have a bike you want to convert or are you starting from scratch?

Where do you want to ride, how long, how fast? How much do you weigh? Would you like to pedal assist or would you rather sit back and enjoy the ride? That's my preference. Anyway, here you can start to narrow down your choices by letting us know your needs.
 
Cheap bikes are a compromise, but even the cheap bikes can be pretty good. My commuter needed some mods to make it comfy for me, but that is mostly because the cheap bike market is aimed at a young teenager. But my forks, crank, swingarm, freewheel, brakes and the frame itself are fine with allmost 3000 miles on it. The mods were a bigger front chainring, and a taller seatpost and taller handlebars. I'm amazed, I thought the "wallbike" was going to last about as long as the tires, that is 1000 miles. I estimated costs based on three a year. Now it looks like I'll get two years out of one. The cheapest bikes though, which i like to call roadbastards, won't go a few hundred miles. The one I ride retails at around $160 US. But of course I got mine at a garage sale for $40.

Cheap motors and batteries are another story. I'm totally unimpressed with most 24v stuff. Just back from the CT site, the one with the front hub doesn't look all that bad. But I'd still rather do something like a 36v aotema and lifepo4 from High Tech, and put it on a bike of my choice for the same money. But stil that looks kinda ok, mabye a bafang on the front wheel? I'ts just a different kind of ride than what I do, not a bad deal.
 
only buy a bike from dedicated bicycle dealer.... they have full time mechanics who know what they are doing.... ebike or any kind of bike
 
Amen to that, unless you are a bike mechainic. I built some good bikes out of some really cheap junk from the flea market in the last year. The big score, an EV global for $60.
 
I've found a LOT of dedicated bicycle dealers who DON'T know their stuff... you have to really watch your wallet!

My first bike (when I was 4) was found in the garbage. I have this great picture of me, four years old, sanding down the frame with my dad. We repainted it blue, got blue tires and blue grips for it, tuned it all up and I rode it for a few years after that!

And probably the worst bike I've ever had was a cheap POS Raleigh bought from a "dedicated bicycle retailer" ... a sports shop in the burbs who was making good money on a good name with crappy bikes and even worse service.

If you're in Toronto, you know to check out Curbside Cycle, Cyclepath on the Danforth, and Urbane, certainly! All these shops do great work, employ honest folk and sell a good product, built properly. They don't seem to employ high school kids or riff-raff either.
 
What makes you say it's better than the BionX on a decent quality platform like a DeVinci or Marin, or bike of your choice?

The discount store bikes are designed to last a few seasons' use and to be then thrown away. They rust, their components are sub-par, they are not a pleasure to use, own, or look at.

Why? Where is the value?
 
northernmike said:
What makes you say it's better than the BionX on a decent quality platform like a DeVinci or Marin, or bike of your choice?

The discount store bikes are designed to last a few seasons' use and to be then thrown away. They rust, their components are sub-par, they are not a pleasure to use, own, or look at.

Why? Where is the value?

and they cost a third of a BionX ...
if you got the bucks then by all means buy one

but comparing CT or WM bikes to BionX and a marlin bike is apples to oranges
 
Marin, not Merlin.

Apples to apples = how long do you plan to live? Do you think you'll enjoy riding bikes for the next, oh, 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Have you finished growing, I mean, if you get the right size, it'll fit you for a while, right?

Do the math. Buy a good bike, that'll last 15 years, spend $1000 on it. Add a $1000 drive. $2k. / 15yrs = $133 a year to ride something awesome. Replace a few tires, a chain or two, keep the wheels true, Maybe new saddle, grips, and pedals. All good quality components. Enjoy them.

OR,

Buy a P.O.S. Spend $899. After the 5th year, it's rusty, it wobbles, the tires are worn out and you don't care, cause it's a P.O.S., so you go out and get another P.O.S. with new tires, true wheels, a fresh chain. But now it cost $999. Do that again in 5 years, cause you still didn't invest anything in a decent frame, brakes, hub, headset, wheels, and now with inflation it costs you 1099.

It just cost you $2997 to have a P.O.S. for 15 years.

My road bike is a 1963. My brother rides a 1995 DeVinci Chili Pepper. He saved up all summer and spend $1400 on it. He was working at a golf course and saving for school at the same time.

I bet you can find $2k if you really try. Aspire, a little, man, damn it! Cheap shit is what's killing our economy, our culture, our world! Take the long view!
 
northernmike said:
*snip* Cheap shit is what's killing our economy, our culture, our world! Take the long view!

I agree with your philosophy about buying decent quality bikes, and the quote i snipped is soo true.
 
I still like option 3 , buy three or four, decent quality bikes at the flea for about 20-60 bucks each, A few tires, some new cables, put all the best parts on one bike, and yeah, those quality components do last for years. No you won't find the $1500 bike down at the flea, but some bikes that originally retailed for around $400 are easy to find for $20, and the same thing now is a lot more. In the end, you have a parts supply, and a good frame with nice components on it that will last. The cost will only be a fraction of the retail mark up on a new bike. If you are gonna ride a bike 15 years, you may as well learn to build one. One bonus is the thing may be a bit less pretty, and not get ripped off as a result.

I really think you don't need the 6 ounces less weight that $1000 gets you on a motorized bike. But you don't need a bike that was made for a kid to ride for a month either. In between, the bikes that retail in the middle are good for electric bikes. The best place to get nice rims is on the flea market bike. Look for the good stuff and you will get it eventually for a tenth of the cost of new, or ebay. The key thing is to ride a tuned up bike. Even good parts wear out fast when abused.
 
A few good quality candidates for electric assist, at more reasonable prices =

bat_old_st_red_09.jpeg


Batavus "Old Dutch"

$799. Galvanized frame, stainless wheels, weatherproof components, chain case, Dutch built. Heavy enough for stability. Good battery mounting options (rack, panniers, front basket). If you like the style, the price and quality are excellent and this bike is designed and built to last 25 years x 4 seasons.

Jamis_Coda.jpg


Jamis "Coda" hybrid.

$575. Double wall rims, 700C size, great range of gears, respectable, rebuildable brakes, headset, BB, etc, (up to date components) cro-moly steel frame. 26.5 lbs.

Either of those OK? I have a few more in my pocket.

If you're looking for a downhill, freeride or mountain bike, I'm out of the loop I'm afraid, sorry.
 
As for the canadian tire and wal mart bikes, here in canada there is no $299 bike available. Price at my local wal-mart for the only available electric style was in the high$900s.

They could be cool for a neighbourhood ride, but perhaps less useful for commuting. I'm assuming the controller will accomodate only 24v. (who knows). They could be ok. I have a couple of chinese bikes that have pedelec and throttle, and they're fine for an errand to a shop or two.

Anyone willing to do research could obtain a better working, more practical bike, for a similar price, quite easily.
 
I could be wrong, but I think those 299 wallmart bikes were cheap because they used the currie motor and sla's. Other models had hubmotors and nimh battery, so maybe they aren't stocking the same thing anymore. A good conversion kit, hubmotor and 10 ah of 36v lifepo4 is at least 6-7 hundred, so a good pre made Ebike will cost that, plus, the cost of the bike itself.
 
smithinparis,
could not agree more.
Canadian Tire does disservice to electric bikes by offering that POC 24V heavy chinese-made hogs.
Now say somebody average NON-technical person buy this POC and lead batt dies after 2 years, because he forgot to charge batt immediately after use several times. With Lithium he could just left batt not charged.
What message he will spread about ebikes?
Example of obsolete technology sold cheap, made cheap.
China is filling dumpsters of this world.
On other hand you have E+ succesor of TidalForce bike , made in USA with rock-solid quality.
I have one , at almost 13 000km no problems, but I am on second battery/LiFePo/.
MC
 
I see nothing wrong with a newb buying a cheap cdn tire ebike . Ive spent more on battery packs than the price of those bikes. not everyone is willing or capable to spend what we do on ebikes..
 
I am a bit bemused at the comments on here.

A few basic issues: Canadian Tire (and Walmart, etc.) distribute bikes that are relatively cheap and yet command a decent margin for them (which means the CAD $499 sticker price Schwinn e Zip CTC probably cost them not much more than $125 to $150 wholesale x factory from China.

The rest is all profit margin, for the distributor, wholesaler, shipping, and probably a razor thin margin for the Chinese manufacturer.

If those bikes were sold in high volumes, a more fair price is closer to $250, which is roughly what they would command at premium bike shops in China.

You can buy a very good conventional bike at CTC (front and rear suspension, disk brakes, aluminum frame for less than $300 if you waited for a sale --- the bike probably cost no more than CAD $100 x factory in China.

The money is made by all the middle men in between.

As for the comments about lead acid batteries vs. lithium batteries.

Lithium technology, even the most common, reliable ones built with factory made Lithium ion cells, is a niche technology that is great for laptop computers, cell phones, but dubious for a mass market, high volume bicycle.

Sure, there will be enthusiasts that are willing to pay any money for the light weight offered by this technology, perhaps even paying $$$ for lithium polymer cells --- the standard for electric planes and other hobbyists uses.

There is also the issue of hazards with lithium based batteries. Federal law now limits the size of lithium batteries that can be carried on aircraft (as laptop computer batteries, for example). Bicycles, or for that matter, any motive use for transporting persons, far exceeds the amount of lithium considered safe to have around.

I have a feeling that sooner or later, there will be catastrophic failures of lithium based battery packs (it happened with laptops, resulting in costly recalls, so expect it to happen for bikes too!).

Think very hard about having several fairly large lithium cells near exposed skin and flesh (on a bike mounted between your legs.... for example... should the battery suddenly were to explode and catch fire.

The fact that this can happen with lithium ion cells that are sealed and carefully manufactured is one thing, but the troubling evidence that lithium polymer (which many cyclists are using) are even more prone to catastrophic failure) seem not to be appreciated by enthusiasts.

Furthermore, because many of these battery packs are in aluminum cases, and often mounted on bikes loaded with aluminum components, it is very foreseeable to see a battery pack fire igniting the aluminum parts.

Have an explosion and fire happen with a lithium battery pack with a cyclist traveling at a good clip (50kph) who may be burned by the explosion and fire because they cannot get off the bike without stopping first, is a readily foreseeable accident with potentially fatal consequences.

Do the lithium battery advocates realize that this is part and parcel of the dangers they accept when they buy a lithium battery powered bike?

Or should we wait for the first e Bike battery recall (like Sony, Dell, HP, Toshiba, etc. did) to find out these hazards?

I would prefer not to find out these hazards with my own fanny.... and use proven SLA batteries that are known to be very safe in even abusive use.

For the user that needs a bike that gets to and fro work, withstand relatively punishing cycles of use (heavy discharge / recharge cycles, neglect like forgetting to recharge it), Sealed Lead Acid is still the way to go.

Until Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries drop in price, your standard SLA 12V 12A (a very common size) can be had for CAD $30 to $50 in quantity, cheaper if you buy the chinese made clones and not the Yuasa name brands.

A battery pack made of 2, or 4 of these is maybe $100 to $200 to replace at retail, $50 for 2 cells if you know how to get the cells wholesale from China.

Sure, it is heavy, but do you really care if the bike and motor is doing the heavy lifting?

There are additional improvements coming in SLA cells, such as incorporating a supercapacitor in it (the Aussies have the patent) that will eventually make the old fashioned lead cells perform nearly as well as Lithium ion, but at a fraction of the cost.

For what appear to be an environmentally minded group (cyclists), I am intrigued that none of the people really seem to care that Lithium batteries, as it stands, is by and large, not recycled or readily recyclable. (It is technically recyclable, but is the infrastructure there to collect them and do so????)

Lead Acid batteries are readily recyclable, and collection points are widespread and most places have excellent collection programs to gather them up and ship them off to Asia to be recycled.

Finally, there is the issue of security of supply. Lithium is a very finite resource that is controlled by countries like Bolivia, Chile, China, and only a small amount in the US in commercially useful concentrations.

Widespread use of lithium for energy storage will quickly deplete or stress worldwide supplies.

For all these reasons, the comparatively "low tech" lead acid battery powered e bike have a lot of life and viability to it that people need to think hard about.

Personally, I would like to see CTC and Walmart bring out a AGM deep cycle battery based e Bike built on a light weight aluminum frame with a good quality front and rear suspension, 50km range @40kph, and do it, fully equipped (fenders, lights, etc.) for CAD $500.

They would have to accept much lower than normal margins, but with these specs below CAD $500, e bikes would take off in popularity.
 
For the user that needs a bike that gets to and fro work, withstand relatively punishing cycles of use (heavy discharge / recharge cycles, neglect like forgetting to recharge it), Sealed Lead Acid is still the way to go.

I have used both SLA and lifpo4 battery's on my bikes.

My opinion is that SLA battery's are not a good choice for e bikes .I disagree with all the above comments. The cycle life of sla is terrible compared to lifepo4. The voltage sag under heavy discharge is also a big problem and if you forget to recharge them they will be useless bricks of lead in no time. Not to mention you only get 1/2 there rated capacity at best when used under typical e bike loads.

SLA battery's were not designed for continuous hi discharge and deep cycling. They are a smaller initial investment and will supply current to your bikes motor and yes by doing so the wheel of your bike will turn under power.

But as for being the best choice I couldn't disagree more.

Personally, I would like to see CTC and Walmart bring out a AGM deep cycle battery based e Bike built on a light weight aluminum frame with a good quality front and rear suspension, 50km range @40kph, and do it, fully equipped (fenders, lights, etc.) for CAD $500.

The above is going to take a 48v ebike and a solid 20ah of battery capacity.If you want to do 20ah at 48v using SLA you are going to need 4x40ah 12v sla battery's and one big trailer to put them in .

A cheep used mtb bike with good components fit it out with ready to go ebike kit - the sla batterys. Most are plug and play with some simple hand tools.Controller,throttle and motor are a plug in job. Lithium Battery's are getting cheaper.

Kurt
 
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