canadian tire store elect bikes.

[317537]

There is one problem with lithium. If everyone decided to go green and use lithium, would there be enough for everyone? From what I have seen not even close.

Well fromn what I gather the same goes with lead.

If every one in china wanted a fridge based on today’s tech it can’t happen either.

Eestor patanet is important as this research has potential to provide the world with a viable kick arse energy storage unit with common materials.

Lead acid has plenty of potential left with some development. Just need a lead alloy made lighter and the cell voltage is fine, could be improved upon. Water based electrolyte is too long in the tooth.

Lead isn’t what miners sought for and is more a by-product with some very useful purposes. Putting it into plastic packs or rolls of solder and recycling it has better implications environmentally than just dumping it as by-product.. As long as manufacturing with lead and recycling lead practices are sound, using lead is a good thing. I am concerned with people loosing there tackle when fishing with it.

[nutsandvolts]

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[jag]

Anyone knows if Schwinn engineers their own bikes, or if they just relabeled generic ebikes?
I understand Schwinn used to be a respectable bike brand, but nor the local bike stores here sneer when hearing the name.

Go ahead and use lead if you want. You're not going to convince most of us to give up on lithium.

As alternative to the Canadian Tire Schwinn, these Tailwind bikes look pretty interesting, my guess is that they cost a lot more though. My female friend is planning to buy the Schwinn Premise from Canadian Tire along with a spare lithium battery. I was going to build her a bike but just don't have time. These two Schwinn bikes look pretty decent: Tailwind and Premise. So I take back what I said about Canadian Tire electric bikes earlier. It is only very recently they started selling them with lithium batteries at Canadian Tire. And they are quite a bit different than the IZIPs that were the only ones available a short while ago. Hopefully they'll stock the Tailwind soon. And it's batteries.

I couldn't find the little mongoose motocross electric bike in stock anywhere.
I guess those are selling out pretty quickly.

Schwinnelecticbikes is very conservative in estimating the power output of the human. A mere 75W. I hope I do more than t that. At least CA shows a couple of hundred Watts drop when I begin pedalling compared to the same speed and no pedal.

http://www.schwinnelectricbikes.com/Technology/ElectronicComponents.aspx
Watt

A unit of work or power that is the product of voltage multiplied by amps.

28 volts X 6.43 amps = 180 watts

746 watts = 1 horsepower

A bicyclist setting a world speed record for 1 hour needs to maintain about 475 watts. The occasional recreational cyclist can maintain about 1/10th of a horsepower or 75 watts for 1 hour with bursts of 200 watts for a few minutes, more or less depending on the riders conditioning. The Schwinn Plug N’ Drive motor more than doubles the recreational cyclists input with 150 watts of continuous power and 250 watts of momentary power to help get the recreational cyclist through the tough parts of the ride.

[nutsandvolts]

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[GTA1]

There is one problem with lithium. If everyone decided to go green and use lithium, would there be enough for everyone? From what I have seen not even close.

Well fromn what I gather the same goes with lead.

There have been studies done on what are the national security ramifications if even a sizable percentage of motor vehicles in developed countries (say 10%) required Lithium batteries.

The net result is there is not enough to go around, and in the mean time, the 3 or 4 countries that control the world's supply (see link below) would be the new OPEC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium

Lead is far more plentiful and in no serious danger of running out.

[GTA1]

Schwinn was bought out by Pacific Cycle who has a lot of brands, and it's really not the company it used to be. It is basically a department store brand. I was not much of a fan of izip, but the premise and tailwind look pretty nice as far as department store electrics go.

As a department store electric, they are average and rather high priced.

My lead acid based iZip had a sticker price of about $400, but the real bane is the severely deficient quality:

Open up the electronics box, and you see the controller is not even fastened down, connectors are crudely made, no effort is made to make the covers etc. water resistant.

The motor mount looks like a crude piece of steel stamped out as an afterthought for the geared hub motor - which also interfered with mounting a standard rear carrier.

On their latest Walmart lithium cells, they stuck a generator run lamp on the side --- something that makes zero sense when they have a controller on board with a 5 v power supply.

Somebody is making fat margins, but it sure isn't the makers of the bike that delivered this abysmal quality.

[jag]

In latest Canadian Tire flyer:

Baja BE500 Power Assisted Bicycle
Product #27-9845-4
See more Motor Bikes or create a Compare
Sale $949.99

Powerful 500W 2.04 HP engine
Electric starter for easy starting
Scooter design for comfort and easy driving
Nine hour charge time
Will go up to 50 km on a single charge
Includes fully functional bicycle pedals

http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524443311805&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396672077&bmUID=1244830846340
How does a 500W electric motor produce 2hp???
What might the electric starter do?
Incredible how they can have so clueless people write the ad texts.
They forgot to mention weight. I wonder if this one would be street legal here with the Alberta 35kg limit on powered bicycles. Haven't seen any of these on the streets of Edmonton yet.

[GTA1]

How does a 500W electric motor produce 2hp???
What might the electric starter do?
Incredible how they can have so clueless people write the ad texts.
They forgot to mention weight. I wonder if this one would be street legal here with the Alberta 35kg limit on powered bicycles. Haven't seen any of these on the streets of Edmonton yet.

I have been having fun reading their ads lately.....

One ad a week or two back talked about the Lithium battery (which is described as lead acid in the pic).

Then there is the ad about the magic anti corrosion device you buy for $$$ and bolt on your car...

Then there is.....

They need some proof readers with a brain....

[QRP]

A few points:
1. "The above is going to take a 48v ebike and a solid 20ah of battery capacity.If you want to do 20ah at 48v using SLA you are going to need 4x40ah 12v sla battery's and one big trailer to put them in ."

Kurt's math is wrong. 4 x 12V = 48 v for batteries in series. The current is the same, so 4 x20 Ah still gives 20 Ah.

2. "In general, the transportation of primary lithium cells and batteries is regulated by the International Civil Aviation Organization, International" and "With limited exceptions, the transport of primary lithium batteries is prohibited aboard passenger aircraft. Refer to August 9th, 2007."

GTA1 perhaps doesn't know that a primary battery is not a secondary battery. All Lithium technology is related but battery safety concerns and methods vary greatly between primary Li, and the rechargable LiPo, and LiFePo4. And to think that SLAs or any lead acid batteries are safe is naive. Having seen an exploding car battery, I am even more impressed with the millions (billions?) of safe uses of LiPo cells in laptops, cell phones, etc. The key is proper BMS - battery management and safe connection. Hmm, wasn't the lack of same the reason that the wet L.A. battery exploded? Regulators need re-evaluation of battery regulations but are conservative and slow to change.

3. LiFePo batteries while expensive at first are gaining a lot of ground. See WikiPedia "LFP batteries are gaining popularity now in the world of hobby-grade R/C, due to the benefits over the ever-popular LiPo batteries. They can be recharged much faster and for more cycles, are not prone to catching fire or exploding while recharging, and are more robust than the LiPo type." Via nanotechnology, even safer and more energy dense cells are being developed. See A123 Systems and the use of their cells in the DeWalt 36V power tools. And just wait to see what will be developed for the auto market.

4. GTA is wrong about Alberta weight restrictions:
"New as of July 1, 2009
·Electric motor with a maximum power of 500 watts
·Top speed of 32 km/h
·No weight restriction
·Includes power assisted bicycles" - this from AB government web site. Few ebikes are as heavy as the "PAB" scooters!

I am appreciative of the advice from experienced and serious bike owners on this site who love serious and expensive bikes. But don't forget our move to lower the carbon footprint and to get good exercise. My CT/Schwinn/Currie SLA supposed pos bike has twice the guts of my friend's much higher priced LiPo hubmotor bike, and it got me back on a bike after many years of just driving. E-bikes are on almost every street in China - I believe they soon will be here also. Sorry for the long post but mis-information bugs me.

[gogo]

A few points:
1. "The above is going to take a 48v ebike and a solid 20ah of battery capacity.If you want to do 20ah at 48v using SLA you are going to need 4x40ah 12v sla battery's and one big trailer to put them in ."

Kurt's math is wrong. 4 x 12V = 48 v for batteries in series. The current is the same, so 4 x20 Ah still gives 20 Ah.

Kurt's math was referencing the Peukert effect. You need twice the rated AH of SLA when you use them on ebikes.

[miro13car]

smythinparis,
excellent point which I`ve been hearing over and over from different people.
Canadian Tire does exactely this - makes general public think that it is "electric bike", they heard somewhere there is something like electric bike, they walk into Can Tire and check out ebikes and form opinion about ebike.
I tried one of this underpowered 'bricks" and it was terrible, no much of the assist at all.
I don`t know how many times I was asked by people met on my ebike routes what happens when I have to change my battery every 3 years. Most of them was surprised when I told them my LiFePo will for sure last at least 10years, but I told them my pack uses quality cells from Taiwan min 20 dollars each cell. Most were surprised my 36V10Ah pack was $750 almost price of crappy Can Tire "ebike"!!! I tell them it is not a toy , it is commuter with 18,000km on it, why would they not pay $3000 for quality which lasts and lasts.
northernmike,exactely Can Tire will never sell GOOD bike- good point.
MC

[Andje]

I didnt read any of the previous posts. To be honest i dont care about them at all. I work for the company in Ottawa Ontario that actually assembles CT's bikes, both regular and electric. Yes, they farm that work out to another company if they can. They pay about 7 bucks a bike on peice work basis, the laborer sees 3 of those dollars per bike. An excellent rate of assembly is 8 an hour for regular bikes. The average 18 year old kid that does this job does about 3 an hour. When building electric bikes you get 10 dollars per bike. So, think about how careful we are when we build these. I have an EXCELLENT work ethic, and I will admit i tighten everything and adjust everything as much as needs to be safe and thats it. Thats all im paid to do. If the person buying the bike wants it adjusted, i am happy to help for as long as they want till its perfect for them, but i get paid for that at that point. If you dont ask for the technician to go over it before you take it home your setting yourself up for trouble.
The bikes are kept in piles in corrugated cardboard boxes, generally outside in the garden centers of CT's. CT has this thing where they sell overstock internally to their own stores in auctions, and so a store will sometimes get 100 overstocked bikes just cause its a good deal. They are out there in all winter and summer, in the rain and snow, for up to three of four years, to the point where the boxes are rotting away. Many have rust coming out of the box. The electrics are especially at risk since the batteries are in the box and are lead acid for the most part; they are normally kept inside, but it is definetly not unheard of to find one outside. The warranty on the battery is 30 days. They are generally 24v 10ah batteries. Two 12v 10 ah inside a cheap plastic container and fyi it is molded to the shape of the rear rack and also is brittle in cold canadian winters and will still shatter on a summer day if dropped from waist height. The reason the warranty is so terrible is because the controllers are generally rated for 500w or more out of the batteries which are rated for 2c peak, 1c continuous; they are designed to fail pretty much. Keep in mind that they are also old and have been in box for at least a couple years since they reached Canada, let alone how long they sat in asian storage (yes they are all made in china).
To replace the batteries which all have custom molded cases preventing both their "removal" from the bike as well as keeping you from using anyone elses batteries, CT takes forever, replaces them with ancient shelved batteries of exactly the same quality, and if your out of warranty they are like 300 dollars per battery to replace, while a well stocked CT sells the same 12v 10 ah batts for small vehicles in the store for like 10 bucks a peice.
People who come into CT haven't done their research but they have a bunch of money. They usually want an electric motorcycle without a license, not an e-bike, even if they don't know it. They want to hammer the throttle from a dead stop and accelerate quickly to at least the legal speed and not pedal. When testing these bikes at the store they seem fast and powerful; the reality is that the motors on them are fine, if waaaaay overpriced since they are sold online for about 30 bucks. The thing that will kill you is that you are buying the fuel tank equivalent of a rusty, corroded old fuel tank that is way to small for what you are doing and in fact was originally built for a chainsaw. The other thing is stuff like the hub rim which for the curry style motors needs a left hand freewheel drive sprocket to accept the motor at the back of the bike. These hubs and the freewheel are notoriously terrible; they WILL brake during the lifetime of your battery, and getting replacements is almost impossible. The plate the motor attaches to bends over time too; it is also replaceable once in a blue moon if your friends of the store manager.
Don't do it. Don't buy them. Don't support CT in this trickery when they could be selling Canadians good quality merchandise instead of only keeping their bike section at ALL to compete with Walmart as a super store; that is the truth from the top management of the company who were here overseeing renovation plans for the bank and heron store last august.

[miro13car]

Andje,
thank you for inside story of Can Tire practicies.
Why they not introduce some E+brand USA-made bikes just keeping maybe 3-4 of them on rack, sure they cost like 35oo dollars, do they take so much room?
If private shops in Vancouver sell them ...
Or they just should stop selling this China crap giving people wrong ideas what ebike is all about.
MC

[Andje]

I want to add that if you can make the choice, support the small buisnesses, the guys who truly want to help you and have an interest in your satisfaction, not just your money.

Justin at ebikes, lyen, recumpence, (these guys spring to mind). Please pay that little bit more instead of settling for cheap mediocrity.

[Lock]

I didnt read any of the previous posts. To be honest i dont care about them at all. I work for the company in Ottawa Ontario that actually assembles CT's bikes...

Tks for this Andje
Coupla questions pls. Is/was yer outfit assembling for CT Canada-wide stores or eg Ottawa/Eastern Ontario area only? And how many of these ebikes d'ya thing were assembled/sold by CT last year?

LoCk

[Andje]

The company i work for sends individuals to individual CT's in both ontario and quebec. The bikes are held in the individual stores and assembled in the back warehouse on a concrete floor usually in a tiny space shared with chipmunks running too and fro gathering birdseed from the birdseed isle. In the CT i worked at most, we probably only went through about 10-15 ebikes in a 9 month season, whereas a typical day saw 30 bike asemblies 6 days a week during both the lead up and peek sale season. Of the 10 i can personally remember assembling four were back within 30 days sitting in the shop waiting for parts. A lot of the bikes sold are kids bikes, although there are a decent amount of cheap downhills sold too. The best seller is still the ccm blue and red boys and girls model, with plastic components all round and brakes that are impossible to truly adjust since the cables will stretch if slammed on...
If the consumption of 10-15 ebikes per store is average (i have no idea, the location i was at with consistancy was neither busy nor quiet. i assume average sales.) then i guess you could work that out at least for quebec and ontario... but i truly have no idea beyond the few stores i worked at personally.
I know that for any CT, the place they make the majority of their profit is the automotive center. The bikes loose money in general, or break even, but like lots of other things in CT they keep them in stock only to compete with WM as a superstore. Remember; with price tags like 98 dollars, these cheap ccm bikes are literally in the impulse buy territory; you go to get your shopping done with your kids and the next thing you know you have three useless broken bikes rusting in your yard.

[northernmike]

This is awesome. It's like the w.iki.leaks of CT ebikes.

[Andje]

haha. i have always dreamed of being a whistle blower

I have no hate for CT really; the key is getting stuff on sale there when the prices have been slashed to beneath reasonable. But i wouldn't buy a vehicle there unless it was a riding lawnmower. And i thoroughly disapprove of providing mediocrity while using the name of our COUNTRY as a brand. Imagine if Walmart was called "United States Stuff".

[northernmike]

When I was growing up in the 80s, my local CT was a good place.

People there seemed to know stuff, my dad would take me along when he needed something and I got to know the place as a decent source for hardware, tools, knowledge, etc. Like a local hardware store that had car parts, too.

Then they tore it down and put up this giant box, and I've never walked out of it without feeling disappointed in some way.

I wish they even had good tires to sell me - but they don't.

Not for any of my bicycles, not for my moped, the girlfriend's SAAB... all their options are just garbage.

Sad, really.

[Andje]

know what? i should point something out; there is a solid gold bike guy working at the ct in ottawa on merivale. He is a bit.. strange... but he is absolutely dedicated to sending those bikes out as perfect as they can be. If you can get him to come down to do some adustments he would tell you truly if the bike was a pos or not if you asked him. He still has to put out shitty bikes that he hates made of plastic pieces that break but he stores them properly and adjusts every one himself until it is as perfect as he can get it.
In ottawa the nepean store is the only one to have a person on salary exclusively taking care of their bikes in store. so if you go to the carling store, ask for carey to go over it.

[beast775]

thanks for that story .