P R O J E C T "Y" KILLABICYCLE World record 17 june 2009

Show off your E-bike creation here.

Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Dee Jay » Sat May 16, 2009 10:15 pm

Cool 8)

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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Sat May 16, 2009 11:01 pm

Image

Image

Image

Image

I found also some inspiration scrooling down to that web page:
see the fairing at 3/4 down of that page:

http://www.schultzengineering.us/build.htm

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby gogo » Sun May 17, 2009 3:01 am

Heh, I've been looking for that picture:
Image
If you look behind the forks you can glimpse the caliper/rim brakes.
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Almasi » Sun May 17, 2009 12:47 pm

Doctorbass wrote: i'll need to find someone that can solder that new tuve to my frame and also to extend it to 6" on the front.

i'll take pics

Doc


I can do that for you !

Give me a call if you want to talk about it Stephane...

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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby steveo » Mon May 18, 2009 11:49 am

Doc,

Will you still be using an x5 to break your record even if you can not do star/delta?

Doc if you decide to try 133-150v i will give you my 4568 mosfet controller to use!!.. this combined with a 5304 or 5303 is very fast combination .. you will be required to use the 41 type hall sensors!

-steveo
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Mon May 18, 2009 6:04 pm

steveo wrote:Doc,

Will you still be using an x5 to break your record even if you can not do star/delta?

Doc if you decide to try 133-150v i will give you my 4568 mosfet controller to use!!.. this combined with a 5304 or 5303 is very fast combination .. you will be required to use the 41 type hall sensors!

-steveo


Thanks for that offer, i keep that in mind!

I still dont know if delta work with my X5.. cause i'm still waiting to get some mini XLR connector for the hall sensor... the controler you sent me dont have this connector.. I ordered one from Justin, but i still have no news..

I might consider getting also a 5302... or to modify a 5304 i'll have soon.. serie/parallel winding or jult like the 408/4011 with a tap that i could change..

Using realistic calculation with the simulator i should get around 59-60mph on the 5303 20" at 100V... My entire battery pack will have less than 70miliohm!! in 28x 4p + 2s 4p

From now i'm waiting to get the frame soldered that i sent to a specialized custom frame shop near Quebec...

The guy that solder it is a real fanatic of electric bike and is very happy now that i helped him to discovered that forum amd the X5 motor existance!!


Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby pwbset » Mon May 18, 2009 8:14 pm

Doctorbass wrote:i'm still waiting to get some mini XLR connector for the hall sensor... the controler you sent me dont have this connector.. I ordered one from Justin, but i still have no news..


Is there any reason you can't hard wire/splice the halls together one by one? The only reason I ask is that I need to get my Steveoâ„¢ brand controller to talk to my 504 halls also. Was thinking of just hard wiring them since I doubt I'll change it once it's running. :mrgreen:
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby nutsandvolts » Mon May 18, 2009 8:31 pm

.
Last edited by nutsandvolts on Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Mon May 18, 2009 9:02 pm

pwbset wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:i'm still waiting to get some mini XLR connector for the hall sensor... the controler you sent me dont have this connector.. I ordered one from Justin, but i still have no news..


Is there any reason you can't hard wire/splice the halls together one by one? The only reason I ask is that I need to get my Steveoâ„¢ brand controller to talk to my 504 halls also. Was thinking of just hard wiring them since I doubt I'll change it once it's running. :mrgreen:


Hall sensor are easy to blow and i know i could just hard splice them but if i have to disconnect them quickly, this is not the best idea.. I love clean electric job :wink:

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Mon May 18, 2009 9:04 pm

nutsandvolts wrote:I see mongoose on this pic that TD posted, is that based on this mongoose bike?
And if so, how strong and stable does it feel? Does it actually feel like a dirt bike?


This is the CX450.. ask to Bikeraider.. he have it! :wink:

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Tue May 19, 2009 8:17 pm

Now let's back to the Project Y !

==== update 19 may 2009 ====

The battery is 40% finish... I am assembling the third 25V pack and will probably terminate assembly of the 4th pack tonight

I decided to go 28s4p instead of 30s 4p.. the reason is that at full charge the30s would give around 108V wich is risky with the 4110.. so using 28s would give me the exact voltage that i have now on my mongoose : 100.8V.

I'll keep the 2s for further upgrade and one of the secret weapon for beating that famous 58.6mph !! :twisted:

The pack construction is going well and the soldering of the cooper sheet to link each 1s4p group is easy to do with my new 80W solder iron.. the bit have large cooper mass wich help to preserve the high temp for better soldering job!

I'll also need the BMS from Gary.. ASAP !!... (Hey Gary.. can you read that please :wink: ) to do my first test

I also had ordered a 5304 and a 18 mosfet controlelr (for backup) from crystalyte.. but i asked to replace the 5304 with a 5302.

i'll test first with the 5303 and then will switch to the 5302..
I want to see the difference between both at ultra high speed.. ( 90 -110km/h)

Theoricly with grear fairing.. the simulator would give me 107km/h with the 5303 and 145 with the 5302.... but i am realistic and will probably get something like 100-105 with the 5303 but i still dont know for the 5302 cause it is difficult to evaluate the torque needed to reach 90-105km/h... I know the 5303 can do it.. but the kV difference between the 5302 and the 03 is very high! so the 5302 could have not enough torque at that speed...

i've read that Ypedal had reached 45mph(74km/h) with a 5302 on a 20" wheel at 48V.. that's 150km/h at 100V !!.. but ....



OK.. now let see some pics of the battery construction:

Doc
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________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Tue May 19, 2009 8:23 pm

This entire pack will be made of all used cells .. some that provide from my first trek battery .. some from other used deffective packs... I kept every cells including the bad one.. and i kept only the one that had 80% or more about capacity, RI and SOC evaluation i did on the excel calculation grid i did.

Here is the final group matching using my mathlab mathching software ( still the best battery building instrument ever!)

The pack should have around 67miliohm total and 8.6Ah 480A peak at 62V (30kW)

The cooper sheet i use are 15 mil thick and are equivalent to a gauge 2 wire.

Doc
Attachments
Cell mathing matrix.JPG
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby knightmb » Thu May 21, 2009 12:52 pm

The only advise I can offer as someone who has done 60+ MPH on my current e-bike setup many times (with the help of gravity and a long, straight hill), I can say that you'll probably be able to achieve the top speed that you want, so your focus would be acceleration and stability. That's where light weight and aerodynamics come into play. If there is any lesson to learn, it's that in motorcycle racing, the driver *usually* never weights more than the machine. I think in your case, your weight will probably be greater than the e-bike, so stability is actually going to rest more with the rider than the bike.

If you have the perfect condition of just a long, flat, smooth track; focus on reducing weight and increasing power. I think this is all that you will need to achieve your goal of a world record. You want to keep the tires on the ground for traction, that's true, but I wouldn't worry about breaking lose and crashing short of the frame snapping in half, just because you will have more mass than the machine and thus actually have quite a stability advantage.
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Thu May 21, 2009 2:01 pm

knightmb wrote:The only advise I can offer as someone who has done 60+ MPH on my current e-bike setup many times (with the help of gravity and a long, straight hill), I can say that you'll probably be able to achieve the top speed that you want, so your focus would be acceleration and stability. That's where light weight and aerodynamics come into play. If there is any lesson to learn, it's that in motorcycle racing, the driver *usually* never weights more than the machine. I think in your case, your weight will probably be greater than the e-bike, so stability is actually going to rest more with the rider than the bike.

If you have the perfect condition of just a long, flat, smooth track; focus on reducing weight and increasing power. I think this is all that you will need to achieve your goal of a world record. You want to keep the tires on the ground for traction, that's true, but I wouldn't worry about breaking lose and crashing short of the frame snapping in half, just because you will have more mass than the machine and thus actually have quite a stability advantage.



Thanks for your precious advices knightmb! :wink: As you said with ebicycle, this is very rare that the driver weight less than the ebicycle!.. maybe in case about my mongoose with 2.3kWh of limn ( 138lbs) me 145lbs) but for the world record, the weight of the ebike will be like 60pounds total !..

The ebike is a kids motocross bicycle with 20" wheel and lightweight steel frame. and the battery will weight 20pounds max..

I used the ebike simulator from Swbluto and the predicted speed is like 67mph with all exact parameters i have.

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby mybad » Thu May 21, 2009 3:58 pm

Hey doc,
Your a braver man than I . I did the speed thing about two years ago 03 @ 72v , all I could do while riding was think about crashing .. Now with my trike I much prefer long and slow. My only advice concerning stability aside from a 5302 on the front wheel would be to keep all your weight on the pedals .
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Thu May 21, 2009 5:31 pm

Yes, I know.. I'll try to keep the center of gravity as low as i can..

Now i'm waiting to get the frame.. I should get it this evening or tomorrow.. then i'll be able to decide wich battery configuration i do.. My pack is divided in 4 individual packs to allow modular placement.

Mybad, What was your max speed at 72V on the 5303 on that 20" wheel?

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby mybad » Thu May 21, 2009 6:58 pm

did you see the $50 price drop on your bike ? just saw it in the paper My bike was never really setup for speed. I have a full suspension (set very soft) with fat off-road knobby tires. I only ran 72v (nicad) 35a on a 26 rim . 26'' @ 48v (nimh) was about 55kph , 26'' @72 was close to 70 but i ran out of track , would never try that on our roads... I weigh in at 175lbs.
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby rgody » Thu May 21, 2009 7:53 pm

Doc :

Please see some experiences achieving high speed in light electric vehicles :

Erokit (in fact electric motorcycle with pedals)
http://pedelecforum.com/index.php?topic=7.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9UyyI_0 ... re=related

Intellibike
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/archive.htm ... 9521&ty=st

Laufer (electric recumbent)
http://www.projekt-laeufer.de/
http://www.3dvia.com/Imagine/models/7C4260724456687A

Could be usefull

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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Thu May 21, 2009 8:19 pm

rgody wrote:Doc :

Please see some experiences achieving high speed in light electric vehicles :

Erokit (in fact electric motorcycle with pedals)
http://pedelecforum.com/index.php?topic=7.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9UyyI_0 ... re=related

Intellibike
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/archive.htm ... 9521&ty=st

Laufer (electric recumbent)
http://www.projekt-laeufer.de/
http://www.3dvia.com/Imagine/models/7C4260724456687A

Could be usefull

Rodrigo
Viña del Mar
Chile


Thanks but only one of them is really a bicycle... ( pedal)

I would see the video of the Intellibike at 100km/h

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Fri May 22, 2009 11:09 am

Yesterday i got answer from Derek Barger from the Killacycle BMS circuit designer. He asked me how many BMS i would like to have :mrgreen:

This afternoon i'll contact him by phone and will see what he can offer me.

I am talking about these little circuit on the biiiiig battery pack of the killacycle.. they are a kind of a shunt that limit the voltage to 3.6V i think.

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby karma » Fri May 29, 2009 8:18 am

any pics of the pack? :wink:
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Sun May 31, 2009 12:13 pm

karma wrote:any pics of the pack? :wink:



Karma, here is some firsts pics for you! :wink: ( i am now finishing the battery rack using "L" aluminum bar. that will fix the pack on the front of the bike under the frame
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________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
User avatar
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Re: --- P R O J E C T "Y" --- code name: KILLABICYCLE

Postby Doctorbass » Sun May 31, 2009 11:30 pm

===UPDATE 1 June 2009 ===
Tonight i finished the battery rack and did some simulation using fairings and the "confortable" position i'll have during the drag race.

These two plexi i got just fit perfect with the frontal and rear area to cover!! the air drag will be reduced , increasing speed !

As you can see on the pics, the height of me and the bike is not very high.. and it's the goal.. i want the minimal air friction area on the front!

Please dont bother.. i'll cut the lips on the front fairing!

Doc
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________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
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Doctorbass
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 7137
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:24 am
Location: Quebec, Canada East

Re: -- P R O J E C T "Y" -- code name: KILLABICYCLE =1 june 09=

Postby Kurt » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:30 am

Looking very good, battery pack is looking very neet and solid. What is the estimated total weight and power output of the Killabicycle?his

This has to be one of my favourite builds keep up the good work.

Kurt
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Kurt
10 kW
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Posts: 976
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Brisbane Australia

Re: -- P R O J E C T "Y" -- code name: KILLABICYCLE =1 june 09=

Postby Doctorbass » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:01 am

Kurt wrote:Looking very good, battery pack is looking very neet and solid. What is the estimated total weight and power output of the Killabicycle?his

This has to be one of my favourite builds keep up the good work.

Kurt


The bike only is 30lbs, motor 24lbs andbattery 18lbs total 72lbs

my weight is 142lbs total 214lbs

the total power should be around 10-11kW

around 51Watts per pounds

Doc
________________
-Fastest speed record from now: 113 km/h measured on GPS
-Fastest ebike 106km/h on flat and managed to enter in the 19.875 sec on the 1/4 mile drag racing !
-0-70km/h in 5sec X5 5303 on 24"
TORQUE SETUP:
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
-Team Konion Member
113kmh Giant___http://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoose____http://www.evalbum.com/1947
E-trike_______ http://www.evalbum.com/3776
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english
User avatar
Doctorbass
100 GW
100 GW
 
Posts: 7137
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:24 am
Location: Quebec, Canada East

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