An alternative to thumb or twist throttles

[bikeelectric]

I am considering trying this lever type - I am starting to think the raw spot on my thumb is from my thumb throttle !

I found the same thing for less than half the price here
Note : I was going to order from here but didn't see a https secure link for credit card info so I am holding off on it.

http://ebladez.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=70171&Category_Code=EPXTRStreetIICompIIRP

[Russell]

Hi Russell,

So is this correct to say (plus some questions)

* All throttles work on the concept of providing a variable voltages back to the controller, therefore all one needs to do is mimic this behaviour when working out resister values?

* I have a Crystalyte throttle for an eZee kit (http://ebikes.ca/store/store_ezee.php) so irrespective of how the current throttle works your approach should be ok for the eZee kit?

* If you put no resistors in at all and the voltage sent back is say 0V - Supply Voltage, could this damage the controller do you think? In other words how sensitive do you think controllers would be to getting things wrong here (e.g. resister values)? (I would get there shouldn't be an issue)

* You don't talk about current (A) in your thread - are there any current limits that a controller would be sensitive to? Like you could get the same voltages buy buying a potentiometer & resisters that were 1/10 of the value, or 10x the values no? You would still get the same ratios however the currently flowing would change. Did you measure the current flow on your original bike, or just assume that if scooter throttles come in this 3.3kOhm range this is normal and work from here?

thanks again

Yes both hall-effect and potentiometer throttles simply send a variable voltage to the controller. With hall-effect the range is generally 1-4V and a plain old 0-5K pot would be 0-5V. Sending 0V to the controller will not harm it and I doubt sending 5v back will either. Since a Hall Effect controller is expecting 1-4V there will be dead spots on either end of potentiometer rotation if a simple 0-5K pot is used.

When I first contemplated using a pot instead of the hall-effect throttle I experimented with a 0-5K linear pot I purchased from RadioShack. One thing I did do was measure the currents with it and the Hall Effect throttle. I don't remember the values but in both cases the currents were miniscule.

The Bladez "5K" throttle would have worked out of the box had it actually been a 5K pot set to its default wiper range of about 900 ohms to 4.2K however it's a 10K pot with about a 3.3K wiper range. Because of this I could not get the desired voltage range form the throttle and had to make it a 2-wire variable resistor with outboard resistors setting up the high and low limits. My initial resistor selection was done to match as closely as possible the voltages the original hall-effect throttle sent back to the controller. The Bladez throttle worked fine like that but the motor reached full speed well before the throttle reached the end of travel. This seemed a bit of a waste to me so I changed the values to provide a narrower voltage range over a wider throttle angle which increased the resolution.


The problem you may encounter when using different brushless controllers and different throttles is that the connectors can be 3-pin or 4-pin and each can be wired differently. The 3 pin is easy since there's red (V+), black (gnd) and the throttle signal, which from what I've seen can be white, green or blue. The 4th pin on some throttles is at the battery voltage to power LED indicators.


-R

[Russell]

I am considering trying this lever type - I am starting to think the raw spot on my thumb is from my thumb throttle !

I found the same thing for less than half the price here
Note : I was going to order from here but didn't see a https secure link for credit card info so I am holding off on it.

http://ebladez.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=70171&Category_Code=EPXTRStreetIICompIIRP

Yeah I found them a while back too but didn't do the transaction because the site is not secure. I ended up buying the second throttle from the same place as the first one but had to pay $11 more for it. Still often times what makes or breaks an otherwise good product is the human interface and I won't ride a long distance with a cheap twist or thumb throttle.

-R

[callagga]

Russell - BTW does the 3 pin connector at the end fit out-of-the-box the ebike controllers? i.e. are they all standard? In other words would I have to order a connector separately?

BTW - One place that does ship to my location is http://www.partsforscooters.com/111-46. These guys should be as good as any no?

Tks

[Russell]

Russell - BTW does the 3 pin connector at the end fit out-of-the-box the ebike controllers? i.e. are they all standard? In other words would I have to order a connector separately?

BTW - One place that does ship to my location is http://www.partsforscooters.com/111-46. These guys should be as good as any no?

Tks

No the connector will not fit the standard Chinese controller 3-pin throttle connector. You can buy the connectors here;

http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES

http://stores.ebay.com/redneckscooters

Crystalyte controllers use different connectors and you can get a bag of them from ebikes.ca if you can't find them anywhere else (I haven't looked) though it would probably be cheaper to convert to the "standard" 3-pin connectors.

I take back what I said a few posts ago, I ordered my latest throttle from here a couple days ago;

http://www.scootercatalog.com/bladez-throttle.html

instead of here;

http://www.extremescooters.biz/throttleleverbladezpart70171.aspx



-R

[callagga]

just to confirm then:

* The 3-pin modular connector at http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101162 is what would be compatible with the level throttle - so it I got this connector I could change my controller throttle connector and then the level throttle would plug right into it ok.

3-pin_modular.jpg (6.09 KiB) Viewed 859 times

* Note that the eZee kit controller is not the crystalyte one. The connector on the eZee controller is show here. Is this different to the level thottle's 3-pin modular connector then? (or is it in fact the same)

throttle_ezee.jpg (6.04 KiB) Viewed 858 times

tks

[Russell]

I installed the standard 3-pin connector you show in your first picture on the throttle. I threw away the connector that came with the throttle so I have no way of knowing if it's compatible with any other controllers.

-R

[Instant Karma]

If I read the previous posts correctly I assume a 5K throttle will work with Crystalyte Brushless controller without modifications? I recently broke a half twist throttle and the cheap plastic they're made of doesn't inspire confidence plus when I use the RH brake it interferes with the throttle so am thinking of switching to a 5K thumb throttle that i happen to have lying around, if the thumb throttle doesn't work out I'll probably try the trigger throttle idea next.

[sprocket]

the TRIGGER throttle.

To me a full twist throttle is at home on a motorcycle where the rider is stationary and usually in an upright or even laid back position but they don't seem to be the best solution on an ebike which someone is actually pedaling and may even be getting out of the saddle from time to time. The full twist throttle that came with my kit is hard plastic and I know it would be a real pain holding it in position for any length of time. I ordered a left hand thumb throttle but then I noticed many active vehicles where the rider may be getting jostled such as ATV's and jet skis often have trigger throttles. Of course those are cable actuated but I did find a trigger throttle used on an electric scooter to try.

.....

-R

Russell,

Do you think one could modify that throttle to fit 15/16" diameter bars rather than 7/8"? One nice thing I see is that the throttle mechanism is separated from the mounting hardware (unlike thumb or twist, where it actually surrounds the mounting hardware. As you pointed out, curved handlebars are rare, and one problem we have is an incompatible diameter for standard throttles.

-S

[Russell]

Russell,

Do you think one could modify that throttle to fit 15/16" diameter bars rather than 7/8"? One nice thing I see is that the throttle mechanism is separated from the mounting hardware (unlike thumb or twist, where it actually surrounds the mounting hardware. As you pointed out, curved handlebars are rare, and one problem we have is an incompatible diameter for standard throttles.

-S

It looks like it would be possible. The throttle is all plastic with an integrated clamp made for standard 22mm mountain bars with very little give to it so I doubt it could expand to fit over larger diameter bars. As it is fairly thick, about 6mm, if you had a good way to ream it out evenly there should be enough material left over to still clamp properly. With the right power tools it would be a quick job, with hand files it would be a mess. The clamp is also quite wide at 30mm so it won't be going over any tight bends even if you open it up.

Kona 001.jpg (77.32 KiB) Viewed 789 times

Another albeit expensive option is to buy a HubBub adapter which fits in the end of road bars and permits the use of mountain shifters. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/nuvinci.html

Something else that may work is this;

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_164164_-1_201355_10000_201357

-R

[Russell]

I take back what I said a few posts ago, I ordered my latest throttle from here a couple days ago;

http://www.scootercatalog.com/bladez-throttle.html

instead of here;

http://www.extremescooters.biz/throttleleverbladezpart70171.aspx


-R

I received the throttle I ordered a few days ago from scootercatalog.com and was quite displeased at what I found. First of all the throttle was falling apart; one of the nuts which holds the small cover in place was lying in the plastic bag and the other was loose, the large bolt holding the top cover was loose and the hold-down bracket bolt was missing entirely! I put the throttle back together but did not have the right sized bolt for the hold-down bracket but I found had another bolt and nut that worked. The throttle lever itself worked poorly with a lot of resistance. I took the small cover off exposing the small potentiometer and found it loose in its mounting bracket. After working on the problem for a while I then found that the potentiometer mounting bracket was installed backwards! Once I flipped the bracket around the throttle action smoothed out.

...now to mod it and mount it to my second ebike.

-R

[Joepostal]

The plastic bits on this throttle are huge, the mounting could potentially be cut in half to 15mm, 7 on each side and it still would work fine. The resistance is high and the full sweep causes it to have to be mounted right next to the grip.

i.e. You can't mount it on the other side of a brake lever since it would hit the mount for the brake and you would not hit full throttle. otoh if you have an ohm meter and figure out how far it can move depending on how you mount it you could adjust the full throttle position...

I am still trying to imagine how/if I will ever use it.

[Russell]

Here it is mounted on my Kona Smoke which I just finished converting;

Kona 004.jpg (78.62 KiB) Viewed 768 times

As on my first conversion I eliminated the stock left shifter for the front derailleur. On the Raleigh I use a downtube shifter to control the front derailleur and while I have not had cause to shift down to the small ring I still like having the option if power runs out. On the Kona I added a little thumb shifter I picked up at Nashbar.com for a buck to control the front derailleur. Eventually however I might eliminate it altogether and convert from a 2x8 setup to a 1x9.

I have the throttle farther from the brake lever on this bike so I could rotate it up a bit more without hitting the body of the brake, on the Raleigh (see below) it's much closer.

Bafang 012.jpg (85.36 KiB) Viewed 764 times

In both cases I modified the throttle with external resistors as described on page 1 of the thread.

-R

[sprocket]

The plastic bits on this throttle are huge, the mounting could potentially be cut in half to 15mm, 7 on each side and it still would work fine. The resistance is high and the full sweep causes it to have to be mounted right next to the grip.

i.e. You can't mount it on the other side of a brake lever since it would hit the mount for the brake and you would not hit full throttle. ...

... ver use it.

Just purchased the same throttle. Because of the curved handlebars on my bike, I'm going to cut the mount and find some way to reattach it. Will post pics when I'm done. Russell, have you found this throttle to be comfortable for extended rides (> 1 hour) so that it doesn't cause fatigue?

-S

[callagga]

bought one to try out

Having some fun at the moment through trying to fit (a) handbrake, (b) gear lever & (c) throttle in a manner in which each is close enough...seems a little bit of a challenge.

[Russell]

bought one to try out

Having some fun at the moment through trying to fit (a) handbrake, (b) gear lever & (c) throttle in a manner in which each is close enough...seems a little bit of a challenge.

Yes it's tough which is why I stopped trying and removed the left shifter. The first bike had downtube bosses so it was easy to move back to a friction downtube shifter. In the second case I substituted a cheap thumb shifter http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_217490_-1___11003 for the stock SRAM grip shifter (see previous posts above for photos).

-R

[callagga]

Hey Russell - do you think the throttle will be OK in the rain if you caught?

[Russell]

Hey Russell - do you think the throttle will be OK in the rain if you caught?

Couldn't say but it was designed for a scooter. I've ridden in light rain a couple of times with no problems but a total downpour would be another matter. If you're worried about it then take steps to thoroughly waterproof it.

-R

[callagga]

I'm up and running with it now Russell! Thanks!

[grwsaltspring]

Very interesting thread. Can anyone tell me how long the wire is from the trigger to the plug.

I'm in the process of converting my e-bike to an e-trailer and I need about 6 ft from trigger to the controller mounted on the trailer at the moment.

Cheers Greg

[callagga]

I'm not at home but for me it went from handlebars of a MTB to rear carrier with not too much to spare (it was just)

[Russell]

Very interesting thread. Can anyone tell me how long the wire is from the trigger to the plug.

I'm in the process of converting my e-bike to an e-trailer and I need about 6 ft from trigger to the controller mounted on the trailer at the moment.

Cheers Greg

I cut mine down right away because I mount my controller on the handlebars but I dug out the scrap cable and it was 3' plus a bit less than 1' left on my throttle so a little under 4' total. To extend it all you need is some 3-conductor cable and a few connectors. You can buy standard connectors (not the kind on this throttle) here;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-Pin-Battery-Connector_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZQ7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a30QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14Q2el1262QQhashZitem334aa3d7c1QQitemZ220295583681QQptZOtherQ5fVehicleQ5fParts

http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES

-R

[GCinDC]

UPDATE May 5, 2009:.... To do this I changed the 100 ohm resistor to 220 ohm and the 470 ohm to 1K-ohm.

I just ordered the trigger throttle! Where did you get your resistors? From RadioShack?

I just searched for 220 ohm resistor and found these three. Which would you recommend?

And for the 1K resistor, which of these?

Thanks,

Greg

[Russell]

I bought the variety pack;

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062304

-R

[callagga]

Hey Russell,

Just an update

I've been riding away with your design up to now. Just in the last week I had the throttle playing up intermittently. It was the B103 potentiometer in the unit that seemed/seems to have an issue. I couldn't see any of these types at the electronics shops so I think I'll just order another whole accelerator (Bladez part # 70171).

How's yours been going?

Cheers