Stinky Turnigy 80-100 -Nuvinci semi auto

[Burtie]

Sorry to hear about your controllers
Any theories on what provoked the release of the magic smoke?

[recumpence]

It sounds like that particular motor is an issue with the Castle controllers. I know I had the same problem with my AXI motor.

Matt

[dontsendbubbamail]

The controller worked fine with either motor before it was repaired and the firmware upgraded V2.16. I say repaired, but it was a new or reconditioned one. My thought is that it is the firmware.

Bubba

[AussieJester]

The controller worked fine with either motor before it was repaired and the firmware upgraded V2.16. I say repaired, but it was a new or reconditioned one. My thought is that it is the firmware.

Bubba

I'm guessing its not posible to 'downground' the firmware to previous version or you would have simply done this already Bubba?

I must have the awesome sound of the outrunner i MUST LoL..


KiM

[dontsendbubbamail]

The controller worked fine with either motor before it was repaired and the firmware upgraded V2.16. I say repaired, but it was a new or reconditioned one. My thought is that it is the firmware.

Bubba

I'm guessing its not posible to 'downground' the firmware to previous version or you would have simply done this already Bubba?

KiM

As I remember it was a one way upgrade. The upgrade was optional. Since I had blown the controller, I didn't pursue it any further. Maybe CC could roll it back if you should have the problem. Other then the whine, that was most noticeable at start up, the motor seemed to run fine. At least up to the point I lugged it up the hill.

Bubba

[AussieJester]

As I remember it was a one way upgrade. The upgrade was optional. Since I had blown the controller, I didn't pursue it any further. Maybe CC could roll it back if you should have the problem. Other then the whine, that was most noticeable at start up, the motor seemed to run fine. At least up to the point I lugged it up the hill.

Bubba

Like alot of stuff these days, XBox springs to mind, can only upgrade not downgrade...I'll worry more about it if/when the problem happens to me i guess..in mean time wish you fellas the best in getting it sorted

KiM

[AussieJester]

Burtie..i meant to ask when i asked about the glue you used, you mention
that you changed the bearings on the motor, i was hoping you might
still have the bearings diminsions jotted down? I would like to order some for my
motor but am hesitant to strip it down simply to measure the
bearings ...i had planned to get my bike mobile then strip it down for
paint and would redo magnets and motor at this stage.. I wanted
to go with ceramic bearings if possible.

Cheers in advance

KiM

[Burtie]

Kim, I think my motor is a slightly older version of the 80/100 than yours, -the bearings may not be the same.

My motor has 3 internal bearings:

2 off: shielded, id 12mm, od 21mm thickness 5mm
1 off: shielded, id 12mm, od 24mm, thickness 6mm

I did replace a couple of the bearings that felt a bit rough with brand named steel ones.
You need to search for 'miniature bearings' to find them. There are plenty on Ebay.

I think ceramic bearings may be overkill, -they cost a fortune, perhaps as much as the motor for a full set. I think they are intended for very high rpm applications.

The major modification I made in this area was to add larger external bearings to both ends of the motor shaft to take the radial load.


Ian.

[etard]

Aren't those ceramic bearings like $50 apiece? If you are going to spend that kinda dough on a motor you might as well get an Astro in the first place.

Burtie,
Have you done any range tests under normal driving conditions to figure out how many wh/mile (km) you are getting? I am curious of the efficiency people are getting so I can decide on how many batteries I need. Thanks.

[Burtie]

Hi etard,
I get about 18 to 20 miles of normal riding from the 44v 10 Ah pack.

After a ride, the motor and controller are barely warm. The controller uses the thick aluminium motor mounting as a heatsink. After a couple of miles or so the gearbox seems to get slightly warm too.

I am pleasantly supprised by the lack of heat generation. My watt meter shows input power peaks of up to 4.6 kw, but more commonly about 3.8kw for a normal ride.

[AussieJester]

2 off: shielded, id 12mm, od 21mm thickness 5mm
1 off: shielded, id 12mm, od 24mm, thickness 6mm

.

Thankyou kindly Burtie ...I must have missed you were running the 80/100
i have the 130 i'm assuming though by the look of the motors they are
the same, ill search a lil and see if i can verify this. I do know i have seen some internal pics of the earlier Turnigy motors and the windings are shabby at best loose windings etc, i haven't had mine apart but i can see through the openings and they are all wrapped very tightly so im guess quality has improved some from earlier models? It also stated on the website that the bearings are now 'quality Japanese bearings' i wonder how accurate this is ? I wont be chancing it anywayz...thanks again bertie much appreciate the details

Etard...yes i could of simply bought the Astro (and may one day do so) but i prefer the outrunner motors Astros are inrunners as you know, I really like the sound of Outrunners, i'm not into oober quiet setups i prefer too hear motors rather than not and the whine of the outrunners is very appealing to me also Etard i bought my motor of a chap local who had never used it i paid $150 for it so alot cheaper than store prices was a deal i couldn't pass on i thought so if i pay another 100-150 on quality bearings i'm still coming out in front on the price of the Astro


KiM

[Burtie]

KiM,

I think my motor is a slightly older version of the 80/100 than yours, -the bearings may not be the same.

You probably saw this comment about the updated motor on the hobby city website. -But just incase;

"Customer Rated 7/4/2009
JEB |
Great upgrade from the previous 130kv motor, with the longer flanges on the ends of the motor adding the screws on both ends to hold the motor together if heat causes the epoxy to fail.
Also the monster new bearing on the mounting end to take a lot more side thrust."

[AussieJester]

KiM,

You probably saw this comment about the updated motor on the hobby city website, -but just incase;

"Customer Rated 7/4/2009
JEB |
Great upgrade from the previous 130kv motor, with the longer flanges on the ends of the motor adding the screws on both ends to hold the motor together if heat causes the epoxy to fail.
Also the monster new bearing on the mounting end to take a lot more side thrust."

I hadn't seen it on HobbyCity Burtie i did read on a thread on ES though that they had made some changes BUT it wasn't mentioned it was too the 130kv model the motor i saw in the thread was a smaller offering, I definately have the older version though the motor was purchased by the chap i bought it from around 4 months ago i would guess. I will grab one of the newer models when i have the bike complete as i have a plan to attach too of these puppies to my ride in the future

Hows your motor holding up? i would imagine the weather might be an issue at the moment over there stopping you from getting many miles in? Have you another bike planned for your winter lay off? Maybe outrunner for the missus bike! Any excuse will do to build another right and you will get bonus points from the lil lady if you do one for her LoL

Cheers for the info Burtie...

KiM

EDIT: I was just thinking also, there isn't anything stopping me from whacking the endplate? of the motor in the lathe and turning it out too fit a KING size bearing would there? I will look into this when i take it apart i think, if it looks doable i will slap the biggest beefiest bearing in there i can fit! LoL

[Burtie]

Two of those motors would be quite something on a bicycle -given that just one of them gets me to damn near 40 mph in a pretty short distance!

My good lady is happy with her cyclone 500 she says she is too scared to try out the stinky

The weater is a bit cr*p here this week, so not much riding. This winter I may turn my attention to making an alternative drive unit for the stinky. I quite fancy doing something similar to the existing unit, but using an inrunner so it would be a bit quieter.

I do love the noise of the outrunner, but the bike really needs to be stealthier where I use it. I am sure some people can hear that outrunner coming from about 1/4 of a mile away when it is on song just by the way they turn round and stare at it wondering what the heck the wierd turbine noise is!


I have a spare 8:1 planetary box that needs using up somewhere too

[AussieJester]

I am sure some people can hear that outrunner coming from about 1/4 of a mile away when it is on song

Thats sooooo pleasing too hear you say that Burtie! i am VERY MUCH looking forward to cranking mine up, i have shown your video to a few people now so they can hear the sound the motors make they all were impressed. Its such a cool sound IMO. I understand the need for quiet though you have the same pesky 200watt? or is it 250watt ? laws we have down here in the Colony so understand the need for the "stealth" side of things At least with the small size of these motors its half believable that they could be 200watt compared to say a 1200watt cyclone even blind Freddy would question the legalities of them i think LoL .. Look forward to seeing what you do next anywayz Burtie

KiM

[dontsendbubbamail]

Great upgrade from the previous 130kv motor, with the longer flanges on the ends of the motor adding the screws on both ends to hold the motor together if heat causes the epoxy to fail.
Also the monster new bearing on the mounting end to take a lot more side thrust."

I burned up a new style HXT 80-83 and posted some pictures of the disassembled motor over in the Tech section. The only difference is that it is shorter then the 130. There are double bearing of the same size in the front and rear. As I remember the 4 shaft support bearings are the same size as the rear bearings in the old stile HXT 80-130. The third large bearing is only supporting the front of the bell. There is really no glue holding the bell together on the new style.

Bubba

[Burtie]

Bubba,

I burned up a new style HXT 80-83 and posted some pictures of the disassembled motor over in the Tech section.

Can you post a link to that thread, I cant seem to find it

In your practical experience, do you know if there is much difference in the performance/power output between the 80-85 170kV and the 80-100 130kV motors? The figures would seem to suggest they are pretty similar.

[boostjuice]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11741&p=199211#p199211
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=13078&p=194056#p193739

[Burtie]

For those of you (us) that love the sound of the outrunner, here is a short compilation made between the rain showers.

Very sedate riding due to one hand being used to hold the camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0SncSuMDg

[AussieJester]

Thanks for the video Burtie im so hanging to get my ride running
everytime i watch your videos makes me that lil bit more jealous of you hahahaha

Hows the sync issues now are they still a problem or have
you managed to sort it out mate?

KiM

[dontsendbubbamail]

Bubba,

I burned up a new style HXT 80-83 and posted some pictures of the disassembled motor over in the Tech section.

Can you post a link to that thread, I cant seem to find it

In your practical experience, do you know if there is much difference in the performance/power output between the 80-85 170kV and the 80-100 130kV motors? The figures would seem to suggest they are pretty similar.

They did seem similar in performance to me, but I only bought the 80-85 because the 80-100 was out of stock. I am not running the motors that hard because i am more into electric assist then speed or acceleration. The 80-85 got me to 50 mph without over heating. As long as you run either motor around 1KW, I think it will last all day. Trying to pull much more out of the motor for any length of time will lead to heat problems.

Bubba

[Burtie]

Bubba wrote:
The 80-85 got me to 50 mph...

I am seriously impressed , I am interested by this motor because it will enable me to build a narrower motor frame which will fit better between the cranks.

Hows the sync issues now are they still a problem or have
you managed to sort it out mate?
KiM

Not resolved yet but I plan to try a few more parameter variations on the HV110 when the weather permits.

I also have one of those 200A Turnigy controllers on the way and an 80-85 HXT motor, so there are some interesting experiments in the pipeline

[AussieJester]

Not resolved yet but I plan to try a few more parameter variations on the HV110 when the weather permits.

NOT what i wanted to here Burtie.."yes all running fine now no problems at all" would have been more acceptable mate hahaa..Be interested to hear how the 200amp Turnigy works out though that will be my "fall back" ESC if i have issues i guess :-S Least the price is good..

Best of luck Burtie

KiM

[gwhy!]

I also have one of those 200A Turnigy controllers on the way and an 80-85 HXT motor, so there are some interesting experiments in the pipeline

Hi Burtie,
When you get your 80-85 I would be intrested to see what your idle current (off load ) is for this motor. I have just got one but when I first ran it up it sucked about 10A on 37 volts and got very hot and after running it for about 1min the current can down to 6A . I removed the skirt bearing and this reduced the current down to 4.5/5A . But Im still not convinced that it should be running with this high a current. I gestimate the current should be around 3.5/4 A on 37 volts.

[etard]

Hey Burtie,
I was wondering how you decided on the Neugart gearhead. Did you check the specs first? Or did you get a good deal on it? The reason I ask is that I have came across this exact model at a good price, I plan to use it up to 5kw, any advise would be appreciated.