Improved Weatherproofing Idea

[zukster]

No salt here yet. It hasn't even snowed! Its below zero though. That'll definitely generate some cooling
condensation inside the hub that should be protected.

[lifepo4ever]

thank you for the info I will only put some polyurethane at the end of the shaft where the wire comes off so I think I will have enougth protection . if not the motor will blown and go to the trash this spring . for me this is a real test for winter condition

[broloch]

I am using a Crystalyte motor which is notorious for rusting and corrosion.

Would it be enough to open up the motor and coat the inside with this: (was mentioned previously in this thread)

I would not "seal" the motor. Is there anything else that is important to have done? I read that putting a hole is no good unless it can be plugged (for maintenance).
Is there anything else to help prevent severe damage to the Crystalyte hub motor?

Fluid Film Rust and Corrosion Prevention
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4 ... ention.jsp

[grindz145]

I am using a Crystalyte motor which is notorious for rusting and corrosion.

Would it be enough to open up the motor and coat the inside with this: (was mentioned previously in this thread)

I would not "seal" the motor. Is there anything else that is important to have done? I read that putting a hole is no good unless it can be plugged (for maintenance).
Is there anything else to help prevent severe damage to the Crystalyte hub motor?

Fluid Film Rust and Corrosion Prevention
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4 ... ention.jsp

Judging from the rest of the posts, I'd say It's worth a shot. I would personally go with ACF-50 or a wurth film first, judging from the rest of the posts. I am going to go with the ACF-50 likely myself and report my findings here.

-just one opinion with no experimental data to back it up

[broloch]

Yeah. I want to still be able to ride through some of the winter. I wouldn't ride on days of active snowing, or slushy conditions. Otherwise, I would use the ebike and make use of it. I would hate to make it go to waste because of a bit of temperature drop. However, it would suck a lot more if I used the ebike during the winter, and had it rusted out and corroded and have the motor NOT work in the spring/summer following.

[Affliction]

Yeah. I want to still be able to ride through some of the winter. I wouldn't ride on days of active snowing, or slushy conditions. Otherwise, I would use the ebike and make use of it. I would hate to make it go to waste because of a bit of temperature drop. However, it would suck a lot more if I used the ebike during the winter, and had it rusted out and corroded and have the motor NOT work in the spring/summer following.

I really don't like consumer products available at department stores; it's all pretty crappy shit. Mind you they will protect better than nothing on a chrystalite hub. I have 2 408's front and rear. The water will get in no matter what and a small hole on one side is insignificant compared to how much gets by the axle bearings. If you leave your bike outdoors in the rain, it drips down the forks and onto the axle and then into your motor; A hole on the side cover means absolutely nothing . it is nowhere near the flowpath of water.
Wurth film has been proven to stop hall sensor problems in actual testing!
There is a couple E-bike retailers who are testing this stuff right now!
All this stuff, Boeshield, ACF-50,Corrosion-X turns to a wax after application. Wurth Film remains fluid.
Hub motors are things in motion so do you want a solid wax coating or something that will flow?

[johnrobholmes]

I would prefer a waxy film so that it didn't get slung around and leak out. An extra coating on my vital parts.

[broloch]

So where can we get this wurth stuff? I remember reading back that someone tried to get it, but it was not to be sold to the public.

How did you guys get your hands on it?

[Julez]

Hi!

I recently opened my push trailer motor, which I use since march. It surely has seen some heavy rain and was parked in the rain for days.
It was dry as a bone inside. Maybe I am onto something with the butylcaoutchouc I use for sealing the flanges. Anyhow, the penetrating oil I used to prevent corrosion right at the beginning had pretty much evaporated. I now wanted to use the special Mike Sander anti-corrosion grease. I heated the stator by running 20A continous throu 2 of the cables for quite some time. The grease melted on teh motor, and soaked all the way through. I let it drip off, and when the motor was cool again, I reassembled and resealed everything. I think everything will work fine with this grease. If it melts again due to high operating temperature, I guess it will drop into the rotor, and will be transported upwars again. We will see.
I think the neatest solution would be to apply epoxy resin used for fiberglass laminatig in the same way as my grease. If the stator is soaked and covered by this really durable stuff, I don't see how anything could ever rust. I have some resin for my model planes, which can be worked with for 2h. This should be good.
Cheers,

Julez

[grindz145]

I would prefer a waxy film so that it didn't get slung around and leak out. An extra coating on my vital parts.

This definitely seems to be the tradeoff here. Can you use both? ACF-50 and then a nice juicy topping of Wurth film?

[lifepo4ever]

ok so how can I securely drill a hole for my 2807 , is it secure to drill at the half distance of the motor center I need to see where because I have my new motor in my hand

[Affliction]

ok so how can I securely drill a hole for my 2807 , is it secure to drill at the half distance of the motor center I need to see where because I have my new motor in my hand

You'll be fine

I would prefer a waxy film so that it didn't get slung around and leak out. An extra coating on my vital parts.

This definitely seems to be the tradeoff here. Can you use both? ACF-50 and then a nice juicy topping of Wurth film?

My motors have never leaked out anything but I see no reason why not to try both corrosion treatments.

[lifepo4ever]

thank you for the picture , a antirust for car is maybe a good idea , my friend have some and its stay on the car for more then 1 year and there no leak

maybe is the best treatment i find for my 9c its like a wax once is dry I thing the product contain bee wax

ok my last question is : can I shoot the stuff every where inside the motor ?

[lifepo4ever]

hey guy I found this product for 11$ from my canadian tire store http://www.corrosionfree.com/automotive.htm I will test it for you this week because i ride my new ebike on snow I will also drill a hole to my side cover and give him a good shoot

the product resist to 260 Degree no leaking no solvent ,its a gel like and also Di-electric to 40,000 volts

they said to soak the metal in so the stuff stay on the surface for 18 month , its to good to be true you can even use like a lubricant

so stay tuned i will reply in 1 week or two

here are the spec: * Formula 3000 with CSC 850
* Rust & Corrosion Fighting Lubricant DripFREE Lubricant Gel
* Especially formulated for coastal and salt water environments


USES

Electrical
Electric motors, starters, generators, alternators, switches, terminals, rheostats, circuit panels, ignition systems, light sockets and any electrical point of contact.

Mechanical
Pre-assembled metal parts, winches, pulleys, bearings, shafts, bushings, hinges, cables, aluminum wheels, steel rims steel or aluminum castings and anything that moves.

Appearance / Detailing
Doors, trunk lids, engine hoods, lapped seams and joints, nuts, bolts, chrome and aluminum accessories, and basically anything requiring protection from the elements.

BENEFITS


* Terminates rust and corrosion in all metals
* Clean, clear, DRIPFREE - no sticky residue
* Dissolves and neutralizes existing rust and corrosion
* Penetrates the start of new corrosion
* Protects paint from blistering at edge of lapped seams
* Stops electrolysis between dissimilar metals
* Protects UnderBody including brake and fuel lines
* Penetrates deeply and lubricates
* Repels salt water and moisture
* Will not wash off with water
* Heavy Duty gel formula for extended protection

METHOD OF APPLICATION


* Formulated to be applied under high pressure to hidden areas using the CorFREE applicating system, or brushed / wiped on to exposed panels
* Can be applied to wet areas
* Apply every 18 months or annually as required

SPECIFICATIONS


* A proprietary blend of lubricants, moisture displacers, corrosion neutralizers and inhibitors
* Solvent-free - Odor-free - Non Toxic - Non Conductive - Di-electric 40,000 volts
* Non Flammable as a liquid - Low Fire Hazard - High Flashpoint
* Not a controlled substance - not subject to TCSA - not controlled by WHMIS
* Specific Gravity .86 - Boiling Point 260 C - Negligible solubility in water
* Non Carcinogenic - Light Green Color

[zukster]

Maybe I am onto something with the butylcaoutchouc I use for sealing the flanges.

Where do you get this butylcaoutchouc? I'd like to use it too.

So far so good with the ACF-50. I used quite a bit at first. About 80g. Some of it leeked
out the axle hole, which is okay, as its easy to reapply through the little hole with the straw.

The butylcaoutchouc may keep it in a bit better.

it will be interesting to see if the ACF-50 turns to wax after a few more months. So far
its still a liquid. I haven't been riding that much though.

[zukster]

[quote="lifepo4ever"]hey guy I found this product for 11$ from my canadian tire store http://www.corrosionfree.com/automotive.htm I will test it for you this week...[/quote="lifepo4ever"]

I like the price and availability in Canada of that one. You'll probably have to post back after winter
with the long term results. Then we'll have some real world tests to consider. The only one that's
really proved itself on a hub motor over a winter is the Wurth film. Maybe it will be more consumer
available after those ebike stores have used it for a while.

[lifepo4ever]

have been tested for 3 days now and I ride in the slush and snow and the chain still have lube I will post a video of my daily drive also
here the weather is very extreme , blizzard,wet snow , sometime I ride in 5 inch of snow for + 30mph wind I want to proof to people Ebike is
good weather resistant when you know what to do to protect for bike .

[zukster]

have been tested for 3 days now and I ride in the slush and snow and the chain still have lube I will post a video of my daily drive also
here the weather is very extreme , blizzard,wet snow , sometime I ride in 5 inch of snow for + 30mph wind I want to proof to people Ebike is
good weather resistant when you know what to do to protect for bike .

Wow - where do you live. Iceland?

[lifepo4ever]

Québec , canada

[lifepo4ever]

look my video here there some useful tips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSf2McRAETc


I made this video today not 2008 I have to erase that from the camera good one for 20$

[lifepo4ever]

hey guy I found this product for 11$ from my canadian tire store http://www.corrosionfree.com/automotive.htm I will test it for you this week because i ride my new ebike on snow I will also drill a hole to my side cover and give him a good shoot

the product resist to 260 Degree no leaking no solvent ,its a gel like and also Di-electric to 40,000 volts

they said to soak the metal in so the stuff stay on the surface for 18 month , its to good to be true you can even use like a lubricant

so stay tuned i will reply in 1 week or two

here are the spec: * Formula 3000 with CSC 850
* Rust & Corrosion Fighting Lubricant DripFREE Lubricant Gel
* Especially formulated for coastal and salt water environments


USES

Electrical
Electric motors, starters, generators, alternators, switches, terminals, rheostats, circuit panels, ignition systems, light sockets and any electrical point of contact.

Mechanical
Pre-assembled metal parts, winches, pulleys, bearings, shafts, bushings, hinges, cables, aluminum wheels, steel rims steel or aluminum castings and anything that moves.

Appearance / Detailing
Doors, trunk lids, engine hoods, lapped seams and joints, nuts, bolts, chrome and aluminum accessories, and basically anything requiring protection from the elements.

BENEFITS


* Terminates rust and corrosion in all metals
* Clean, clear, DRIPFREE - no sticky residue
* Dissolves and neutralizes existing rust and corrosion
* Penetrates the start of new corrosion
* Protects paint from blistering at edge of lapped seams
* Stops electrolysis between dissimilar metals
* Protects UnderBody including brake and fuel lines
* Penetrates deeply and lubricates
* Repels salt water and moisture
* Will not wash off with water
* Heavy Duty gel formula for extended protection

METHOD OF APPLICATION


* Formulated to be applied under high pressure to hidden areas using the CorFREE applicating system, or brushed / wiped on to exposed panels
* Can be applied to wet areas
* Apply every 18 months or annually as required

SPECIFICATIONS


* A proprietary blend of lubricants, moisture displacers, corrosion neutralizers and inhibitors
* Solvent-free - Odor-free - Non Toxic - Non Conductive - Di-electric 40,000 volts
* Non Flammable as a liquid - Low Fire Hazard - High Flashpoint
* Not a controlled substance - not subject to TCSA - not controlled by WHMIS
* Specific Gravity .86 - Boiling Point 260 C - Negligible solubility in water
* Non Carcinogenic - Light Green Color

and so far so good the stuff is still inside my motor and made around 2500km since last winter i open it to because to fix a hall sensor and also i prepare my bike for the winter

the thing also impress me after putting daily 80amp and 100 volt in the winding , inside the motor is like new and i think the stuff reduce also the heat generated by the current on my hard accelaration i never had more than 110 celsius doctorbass say that 130 is the limit of this motor so when i do hard i reduce power after
also i have some cooling with my drilled hole but only efficient when i stop the bike its cool faster . so i will clean inside my motor tomorow and buy some more rust cure 3000

[zukster]

I ran my geared Bafang Hub motor over last winter with my tapped and sealed hole, with ACF-50 spayed
in with a straw. Its held out fine. The ACF-50 is fairly thin however and tends to leek out the axle if the bike
is tipped over a bit, so I've had to apply it every month or two.

I opened up my Son's Bafang after a winter of Vancouver daily use of to school an back. This one was
not treated at all. I was amazed to find it still new looking inside, so I just re-greased it.

Maybe the water is just not getting in there because of the way the bike was set up. In other words,
rather than dripping down and into the axle shaft, it must drip off the bike instead. The bike was kept
covered outside all winter, but not inside.

So now I'm suspecting that the freezing weather out East, combined with freeze thaw cycles, and the
resulting condensation inside the motor - is likely the worst enemy for corrosion setting in.

[lifepo4ever]

the rust cure stay and there no leak its like a gel and my motor is drillerd at 16 place and the stuff stay inside its really stick to the metal

[zukster]

Finally after 3 years of use, my son stripped the nylon gears in his rear drive Bafang SWXH 26
Inch wheel model being run by Ecrazyman/keywin 350w/20a Infineon controller and 60V to it.

I had already ordered some metal gears from keywin a couple of years ago (I don't know if keywin
is around anymore), so I just had to install them. On of the nylon gears had actually cracked and
jammed the motor. Not wanting to take anymore chances, I used 3 metal gears.

Its not too loud when the motor has been treated with ACF 50 or fluid film inside to protect it.

The insides of the motor are in good shape, so the above treatment worked and
did its job of protecting the motor though a couple of winters.

[rocwandrer]

This seems to be the best thread on corrosion proofing that I can find here, but no definitive conclusions.

I found a semi-independent test of ferrous metal corrosion protection in fresh and salt water environments:

http://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfishing-charters-forum/123560-test-corrosion-inhibitor-sprays.html#b

I found a couple on electric motors specifically, but then reading through them, found them faulty to the point of being invalid.

Any of you folks who tried something like Fluid Film a long time ago care to report back on its efficacy in salted road environments?

Fluid film carries (among others) a massively appealing claim for chain applications:

Chains
FLUID FILM penetrates to the inside of the chain, preventing wear and providing extended lubrication. Displacing any trapped water, it leaves a barrier of protection with sufficient body to resist fly off and water wash off. In dusty environments, FLUID FILM resists dirt buildup due to its slick, non-tacky consistency. FLUID FILM holds up under a wide degree of temperatures, resists high moisture and, because it won't freeze, prevents chain jam ups due to water frozen in chain links. FLUID FILM was documented as having extended locomotive drive chains in salt harvesting machinery by up to 300%.

But I'm interested in electric motor applications. Wasn't there one that coated an automotive alternator, and then submerged it in ocean water and ran it for a year without failure. I think the same one took an old TV, coated the entire inside of the thing, and then turned it on immersed in salt water without immediate failure. Often demos for snake oil do things people wouldn't think would work, to prove the snake oil product is amazing, but they are things you can actually do without the snake oil. Slick-50 has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, but their "drain the oil and then add sand to the crankcase" demo is super compelling. However, if you control the size of the sand particles, and use the right engine, the engine will survive for a while like that, just like they show, without any special product.