Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

[amberwolf]

Not much progress on CB2 itself. Seems like every time I sit down to work on it either I find a serious problem with whatever it was I was about to do to fix the chainline stuff, or something happens to pull me away from it. Or fabricating something turns out to not be possible with the tools I have (or I don't have the skill to do it yet). It's kind of depressing. At least I have the trike design in progress to get excited about.

Using that smaller chainring off the Trek is impossible. It would bring the chain itself down to the point it would cut thru the frame. Any guide I put on there to route the chain around the frame would probably break under the motor power, probably when I have it heavily loaded and am far away from home.

To keep the chainline straight on the top where the load is, I have to keep a large chainring on the receiving crankshaft. So it is back to fixing one of the previously destroyed ring sets. Maybe I can mix and match them well enough to double up thinner rings, then use BMX chain for strength. Bolt or weld the ring set together.


Considering welding a threaded section from either a BB cup or a rear hub to the motor shaft's hub end, then putting a freewheel cassete smallest sprockets I can get away with on there. That would get me a freewheel so that I would not be driving the motor when pedalling.

Also considering taking a BB cup and welding it's cup end to the right end of the threaded part of a rear hub. Then welding it's nut end to the face of a steel square-taper crank. The cup would need to be bored out enough to be able to get to the nut and crank threads, so I could still tighten or remove it later.

That would give me a long enough threaded cylinder to do what I originally set out to do for leftside chainrings, which was to put a couple of freewheels on that threaded cylinder with spacers to line up the chains as needed, and allow both motor and pedals to drive the wheel without driving each other.

Problem is, I am not sure that the welding would take the torque, or that the crankshaft itself would take it either, with the load cantilevered out that far. Originally the custom-made cylinder design would have had the motor load still over the actual crankshaft, but both of these would end up out beyond the end of the shaft, putting quite a load on the welds.

So...CB2 is stalled.

[amberwolf]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 12#p242212

[amberwolf]

Ok, I have been putting off doing the fixit stuff on CB2 for way way way too long. I think I just got discouraged from the repeated failures of stuff I was *sure* I had conquered.

I decided last month to get working on it seriously again, and started this thread
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 28&t=17809
to see about ways to make the jackshaft freewheel adapter I wanted. Thud is now basically doing that whole part for me, in a way I hadn't considered, and I am not quite sure if I can say "thank you" enough.

In the meantime, I've been doing the usual monthly check and top-off of the SLA on CB2 (as well as the spares not mounted), and found that one of the mounted ones had just died. Open circuit it's ok but with a load it dies to less than a volt. Same with one of the other spares, also a Sacred Sun UPS battery. One more of those failed in a different way, it reads about 8V and drops by several volts as you watch the meter! So I had only one spare left at that point, not including the one replacing the mounted failed battery.

The battery fairy found four more used but still functional 17Ah SLA and dropped them off; one pair is significantly better than the other, and possibly better than the only original pair left on CB2. I'll be doing some discharge tests on both pair to see if it's worth swapping them out.

In the meantime I am growing a fair collection of lead to recycle once I find a local place offering enough to be worth the strenuous trip.

If I can modify the BB axle I have on the pedals to be like the cyclone types and stick out farther (on the left in my case), then with Thud's jackshaft adapter I can move the whole chainline away from the batteries far enough to finally build a box around them to hide them and their ugly wiring, and give me a place to mount the breaker without using hose clamps.

I did realize that using this new adapter, I may have to rework the left rail that ties the front and rear frames together stiffly, and provides the bottom rail for the cargo pods. It'll be in the way of the adapter and/or it's chainrings where it is now. Have to move it leftward, so I will see if I can make one out of tubing that will replace the front half of the rail, bolted to the rail in back, making a sort of ? hook around the chainring area, then bolting back to the front frame again.

Another detail to finish is to affix the spring return to the throttle lever. Throttle works fine but gravity can pull the lever down and engage the motor all by itself. Not good. Idea is that i use the side and/or tip of my thumb to push down on this long lever just like I used to on my short little thumbpot knob, only this should be easier to operate with the longer lever. Less long-term stress on my thumb/hand. Until the mount pivot broke, I had this working with a metal bar fairly well. Should be better with the better lever.

Working on some stuff for getting disc brakes onto the front wheel, and maybe the rear, too. I'll probably leave the v-brakes on as well, both for backup in case of failure of disc, and for additional stopping power and/or downhill speed control.

I also have an actual motorcycle LED taillight/brakelight to add to the CFL thingamabob and 3rd brakelight bar, just for added rear-pointed lighting. If it works out I may replace the CFL entirely with it. Got one on DGA already, just have to wire it up and stuff.

[vanilla ice]

On the trigger shifter.. I got an old bike with some beat down stuck shimano triggers. Looked to be mid to high end, so I spent some time and oil on them. They were shifting fine after like an hour of elbow grease, and oil and grease. I bet you could get those back to operational condition without too much time in to it, if you wanted to. I like them.

[amberwolf]

Sounds like it is worth trying. I need to clean the dirt out of them, first.

I am finding that it is difficult to place everything on the actual bars. I am almost certainly going to wind up putting some sort of parallel bar on the HB so that I can have some stuff on those that I don't need quite as easy access to but still want within reach.

And I am probably going to make a "dashboard" to hold the switches, bike computer, watt meter, etc, partly to consolidate them and partly to give me a weatherproofing option. It doesn't rain much here but when it does, it's a doozy.

[amberwolf]

Today I helped a friend convert a Landrider autoshifting bike over to manual shift, as the person it's for doesn't like the autoshifting; it causes problems with pedalling for them.

So they didn't want the autoshifting derailer/etc, and I now have it. It is based on a simple old Falcon derailer just like bikes I have from the 70s, but with a custom-made back end that has a pulley-driven shaft with a split flyweight on it. Pulley on the wheel behind the cassette drives it.

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"rear" view, showing the wheel pulley, belt, and the shaft pulley circled in red.

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Bottom-rear view showing the flywheel held open in a fully-shifted state, with the pivoting seesaw lever that does the shifting circled in green, and that drive pulley in red.

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A shot from underneath showing where they once designed in a manual shifter override but didn't bore the holes or thread them. Maybe those only exist in earlier models.

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It would not actually work as a pull-cable anyway; it'd have to be a pushrod to work. This shifter moves backwards from the way all others I've ever had do. It starts on the lowest gear, and tension on it from the flyweights/lever pulls it to the highest.

This is the separate plastic pulley that seats between the cassette and the spokes/hub.

DSC02808.JPG (42.58 KiB) Viewed 1036 times

The other side, you can see the notches/etc for the spoke heads to fit. Luke, this is what I need to get into CAD file for those adapters. Anybody got a 3D scanner? I'd love to have this thing in aluminum, as a solid disc to use for all sorts of adapters!

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A better angle; had to increase brightness/contrast to see the indentations for the spoke heads.

DSC02811.JPG (56.54 KiB) Viewed 1036 times

So the idea is that once CB2 is running, I'm going to stick this in place of the regular rear derailer. Theoretically, assuming the motor power doesn't destroy it it should shift gears automatically to keep more optimal gearing. I'll have to come up with a manual pushrod shifter for it too, in case something happens to the belt or autoshift part of the mechanism.

Since it'll be on a 24" wheel instead of a 26", I may have to play around with the 2 screws that appear to adjust the balance of the seesaw pivot. If they do what I think they do, I might get enough adjustment range to alter the rate at which gears shift vs wheel speed.



When my friend and I went to a bike shop for some parts he wanted for the Landrider/etc., we ended up at the same shop I'd bought that box of assorted parts at the swap meet of, back a couple months or more. I'd also at the same day bought a used Shimano Biopace 28/38/48 crankset that I installed to great success and comfort on DGAmII, and figured I'd probably never see another one just waiting for me on the shelf like that.

I even said as much to him as I was digging thru the used parts shelf, and guess what?

DSC02812.JPG (24.03 KiB) Viewed 877 times

Right there, another one, in even better condition!

DSC02813.JPG (30.21 KiB) Viewed 877 times

Like the other, it has both cranks, the ovoid chainrings, and a BB cup set, bearings, and crankshaft and bolts.

So now I have one for CB2 as well--I had figured I'd have to pull the one off DGA once I got CB2 working again--now I don't have to. Of course, with this on CB2, I have to add a tensioner for the chain, since it will not be the same all the time as it would with round chainrings.

I'll tell ya, though, if you've got bad knees, these things definitely make a difference in when the forces on them happen during cranking harder, and that makes a world of difference to the level of pain when real effort is required for any reason, like startups.

It appears to help most on the largest chainring, so despite common sense, I typically leave the front on the largest and shift down to largest in back to get lower gears, only downshifting in front when I know I can't do it with the big ring, which fortunatley is not very often here in Phoenix.

[spinningmagnets]

Hmmm...even if that particular model of auto-shifter didn't work well, that idea is interesting...

Are the chainrings you posted oval instead of round? EDIT: I see you already said "ovoid",...I thought ovoid was a brand name! I have heard of them, are they easier on old knees? (I have two of those,...old knees, I mean)

[amberwolf]

Yes, they are not exactly oval, but an eccentric ovoid shape. Weren't very popular, like most of the eccentric chainrings or odd cranks over the years. Every so often another company will try their hand at evening out the torque load on the cyclists legs and the bike drivetrain, by doing something like this that helps deliver more or less constant power.

It definitely helps my knees on the upright bike. I did not know if they would, and was skeptical, but the first set I found was like $5 or something silly and since it was, like these, complete down to the crankshaft, I couldn't resist trying them. I figured if nothing else I could resell them on CL or ebay for more than I paid.

But they did work on DGA, it's not a huge difference in actual torque but it apparently gives me more leverage at the points my knees are weakest. Might be different on CrazyBike2 since it's a different seating position and different leg angle, etc. Might require moving the cranks around one or two pegs on the spider, if they're radially symmetrical for the bolt circle.


The autoshifter is an interesting design, and while it happens to be a very cheaply made one, I could imagine Thud or someone making a much better one. Assuming the concept works for bottom bracket drives, which I guess is basically what CB2 uses.


I'm eager to try both of them out on CB2.

[amberwolf]

Another new bit for CB2: a front disc brake hub, courtesy of Papa. It's a bit of an odd one, unlike most I have seen, it requires dishing the wheel. I've seen that sort on trikes, (Steintrike?) but this has a QR axle, and I really can't imagine a QR axle as a stub axle on a trike being all that safe. So I guess it's just one of those hubs made to clear larger disc calipers.

DSC02877.JPG (30.52 KiB) Viewed 849 times

Anyhow, I started trying to lace it up tonight (as you can see in the pic above), but am going to have to work out a spoke pattern that lets me use spokes that are either normally too long or too short for this. As I expected, it has significantly larger diameter flanges than any of the other 24" wheels' hubs I have, so none of the 24" wheel spokes will fit quite right using a normal 2x lacing--they're so long I can't take up the slack.

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If I use a 3x lacing, they're not quite long enough even for the dished side, even dished totally flat (I can get about 15 of the 18 spokes into the nipples, but even if they're only catching 2 threads each I can't get the other three in at all).

DSC02878.JPG (62.36 KiB) Viewed 1007 times

20" wheel spokes are too short even if I radially laced them. I could probably radially lace 22" wheel spokes but I don't have any, assuming that's a size even made.

I am currently trying to work out maybe some fancy lacing pattern that will let me use some 26" wheel spokes I have from a wheelset that had a large-diameter-flange hub in it, so they're kinda short for typical 26" spokes but still long enough for perhaps a 3x pattern. If I use the ones off the rear I'll have ones short enough to make the dishing for the disc side, too.

This should be an interesting wheel build.

I wish I knew someone here in Phoenix with a spoke thread roller I could have the use of long enough to learn how to use it, and then cut/rethread some spokes.


Even after I get the wheel itself done, I still have to bolt one of AussieJester's donated discs to it, then put it all on the front fork, line up a caliper he also donated, and then make an adapter I can weld to the fork that I can bolt the caliper to.

[Papa]

AW,

You really should limit yourself to at least 3x on disc hubs - especially on front wheels. Remember, unlike rim brakes, disc brakes load the spokes just like hub motors do. This is why most disc hub manufactures' won't warranty their hubs if laced less than 3x.

Once the wheel is built, bolt on a rotor and install it on the bike. Now install and connect the lever and cable to the caliper, then align the caliper on the rotor and simply "apply the brakes" to freeze the caliper in it's proper position to the rotor. A rubber band will hold pressure on the lever. Rotate the wheel, if necessary, to position the caliper where you want it, then build your caliper mount. I use 3/16" thick stock. Make sense?

BTW, considering the laden weight of your bike, I'd strongly suggest you use at least 180mm diameter rotor - a 203mm even better.

[amberwolf]

You really should limit yourself to at least 3x on disc hubs - especially on front wheels. Remember, unlike rim brakes, disc brakes load the spokes just like hub motors do. This is why most disc hub manufactures' won't warranty their hubs if laced less than 3x.

More info I did not yet know--thanks! Based on digging thru the wheels and salvaged spokes I have, unless those short 26" spokes work, I won't have any others that I can use that will allow 3x or 4x. (well, actually that will work at all for the wheel at the moment; I'll end up with the same above problems).

Once the wheel is built, bolt on a rotor and install it on the bike. Now install and connect the lever and cable to the caliper, then align the caliper on the rotor and simply "apply the brakes" to freeze the caliper in it's proper position to the rotor. A rubber band will hold pressure on the lever. Rotate the wheel, if necessary, to position the caliper where you want it, then build your caliper mount. I use 3/16" thick stock. Make sense?

Yes, it does. I'd planned on all of that except the using caliper to hold *itself* in place, which is brilliant.

I am considering putting the brake caliper on the front of the fork, so the rotation of the disc will force the axle into the dropouts rather than tend to pull it out, since it is a QR type, and I have read of a few incidents here and there of those pulling out under sudden hard braking, especially after repetitive pulsing of the brakes, which may be loosening the skewers. Another reason to use the front is that I already have a 1/4" steel plate up there for 20" dropouts on my 24" fork (for a much older bike experiment I never finished), which I could probably bolt the caliper mount to.

BTW, considering the laden weight of your bike, I'd strongly suggest you use at least 180mm diameter rotor - a 203mm even better.

I don't remember what size I have; at the moment it's just the one regular bike style from AJ, plus a smaller (pitbike?) one that might be ok for a rear but not a front (and would need modification to match mounting holes). IIRC, there will be another from Karma once the motor winding is done and the box of that and other stuff arrives here. Can't remember it's size.

Since Jason at E-BikeKit offered to send me some 9C covers (if he has any) for another project for postage, I'll also be buying a pair of the largest discs/threadon adapters he has to hopefully make it at least worth his time to do the covers; I think they are 180?

I'll probably also leave the rim brakes on, though I may not have the cable hooked up to the lever, so that I can use those if something goes wrong with my caliper mount, etc.

[docnjoj]

Hey Amberwolf
Stein does use those Bitex hubs like you have in 3x but they have no dish and the wheel is centered over the middle of the flanges. The one big problem I had was that they have very little lateral support and I think that is why my wheel failed. The flange width is only about 45 mm, too small for the front of a heavy trike. My new plastic wheels seem to be quite strong and you can prolly find some on yard and garden carts that have been either discarded or sent to goodwill. They are glass filled nylon.
otherDoc

[docnjoj]

"Are the chainrings you posted oval instead of round? EDIT: I see you already said "ovoid",...I thought ovoid was a brand name! I have heard of them, are they easier on old knees? (I have two of those,...old knees, I mean)"
spinningmagnets


I too have "old knees", S/M and I did sone research a while back on bike solutions. Biopace is not it! the data was always equivocal as to whether they actually helped, and I believe the market spoke as always. What seems to help, and I am about to try is shorter cranks. I have 175s right now and I plan to go back to 150mm like on my old trike. I never had knee problems then but I haven't ridden it in over a year. I'm gunna get those pedal shorteners that they use on tandems and make an instant 150 crank. I don't have the drill press accuracy to drill my cranks and may as well pay for my lack!
otherDoc

[Papa]

"Are the chainrings you posted oval instead of round? EDIT: I see you already said "ovoid",...I thought ovoid was a brand name! I have heard of them, are they easier on old knees? (I have two of those,...old knees, I mean)"
spinningmagnets


I too have "old knees", S/M and I did sone research a while back on bike solutions. Biopace is not it! the data was always equivocal as to whether they actually helped, and I believe the market spoke as always. What seems to help, and I am about to try is shorter cranks. I have 175s right now and I plan to go back to 150mm like on my old trike. I never had knee problems then but I haven't ridden it in over a year. I'm gunna get those pedal shorteners that they use on tandems and make an instant 150 crank. I don't have the drill press accuracy to drill my cranks and may as well pay for my lack!
otherDoc

IIRC, SR's were dubbed, "Ovaltech" and Sugino's was "Cycloid." I have a nice stash of Biopace and was using them on 152mm cranks. But lately, I've been spinning a belt. Now if I could have the CNC wizards carve me an 8mm Bio-Pulley,... i'd be in Fat City.

[amberwolf]

Stein does use those Bitex hubs like you have in 3x but they have no dish and the wheel is centered over the middle of the flanges. The one big problem I had was that they have very little lateral support and I think that is why my wheel failed. The flange width is only about 45 mm, too small for the front of a heavy trike.

That makes sense.

Mine has to be dished because there's no way to center the wheel in the fork otherwise. I mean, I could do it undished, but the tire would be something like 10mm or more closer to the right side than the left; I'm not sure how badly that would affect steering, but I'm guessing it would be noticeable. Since my steering is remote by pushrod on CB2, I could very easily adjust it so it is automatically compensated for in straight-line riding, but I dont' know what it would change in turns and such.

My new plastic wheels seem to be quite strong and you can prolly find some on yard and garden carts that have been either discarded or sent to goodwill. They are glass filled nylon.

I'll have to keep an eye out. At the moment I've got a few sets of wheels including some with sealed bearings, but they are not very wide (20" wheels, spoked). They'll likely be the first experimental ones used on ARTOO if I ever get it off the drawing board. Then start replacing them with the geared 3speed hubs driven by powerchair motors, and see what breaks.

I too have "old knees", S/M and I did sone research a while back on bike solutions. Biopace is not it! the data was always equivocal as to whether they actually helped, and I believe the market spoke as always.

On my regular bike, they do help me; I'd read lots of arguments about them and other ovoid rings, but never had the chance to try any. I figured they probably wouldn't help, but for whatever reason, they do.

On CB2, they may not help, since my legs will be at a different angle; I don't know.

What seems to help, and I am about to try is shorter cranks. I have 175s right now and I plan to go back to 150mm like on my old trike.

I have (I think) 155mm on CB2 right now. I did that mostly so I would not have to deal with as much leg extension/contraction, and keep my feet in a smaller circle. But it gives me less torque and makes it harder for me to push wihtout pain in a startup situation in which I don't have the motor helping for whatever reason. The longer ones I tried (165? 170? I forgot) get more torque with less knee pain; but my feet go in a much bigger circle and I have to watch out when I turn or I can hit my knees on the bars!

Now if I could have the CNC wizards carve me an 8mm Bio-Pulley,... i'd be in Fat City.

Hmm...now that could be interesting. You'd probably need a different tensioning method, though, as most belt setups I've seen are a fixed tensioner, rather than a self-variable one, or at least not enough variability to deal with that much change.

[docnjoj]

"I have (I think) 155mm on CB2 right now. I did that mostly so I would not have to deal with as much leg extension/contraction, and keep my feet in a smaller circle. But it gives me less torque and makes it harder for me to push wihtout pain in a startup situation in which I don't have the motor helping for whatever reason. The longer ones I tried (165? 170? I forgot) get more torque with less knee pain; but my feet go in a much bigger circle and I have to watch out when I turn or I can hit my knees on the bars!"

The apparent theory on the short crank issue is that spinning in a smaller circle is easier on the knees than the longer extension/flexion of the larger crank arms. You need to compensate for the torque loss with lower gearing but with a motor it really doesn't seem all that critical. I'm gunna finish testing the new wheels first this week with another 50-75 miles riding and if my knees still hurt I will spend the bucks on the crank shorteners. We shall see! Good luck on your trike build, Amberwolf.
otherDoc

[amberwolf]

The apparent theory on the short crank issue is that spinning in a smaller circle is easier on the knees than the longer extension/flexion of the larger crank arms. You need to compensate for the torque loss with lower gearing but with a motor it really doesn't seem all that critical.

I have to set mine up so that I could if necessary pedal home without the motor, in case it breaks. All this experimental junk-pile stuff tends to be unreliable, and my "engineering" doesn't help. Unfortunately I am limited in gear selections to whatever I have that fits on things I must use for other reasons, so there are some experiments that require I use longer cranks whether I want to or not.

Now that I have a few spider-type cranks I have the opportunity to make adapter rings to bolt other types of sprockets/rings to the spiders with ease, instead of being limited to steel sprockets I could weld onto steel cranks, but all of the spiders are longer, in the 165-170 range. Guess it comes down to 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

I'm gunna finish testing the new wheels first this week with another 50-75 miles riding and if my knees still hurt I will spend the bucks on the crank shorteners. We shall see! Good luck on your trike build, Amberwolf.

You too; I'm going to look into the crank shorteners and see if maybe I can build some out of what I have here. Might be just the ticket.

[docnjoj]

If your crank arms are wide enough you could redrill them higher up and tap for 9/16 standard pedals. My cranks are fairly high quality and my drillpress skills are not that great. I would have to make fixture to hold them and if I screw up it is much more expensive to replace the road triple than to just buy the shorteners. They arent cheap at $100 but they are cheaper than knee surgery.
otherDoc

[amberwolf]

Oh, they're all wide enough, but I don't have a tap for the holes.

Hmm...in theory I could tap aluminum cranks by sacrificing a set of crappy pedals (maybe some the dogs chewed on) and grinding debris-channels across the pedal threads. Weld a big T-bar handle made of the roller bars of some laser printer or copier (got a pile of parts from those) on the end of the pedal shaft to turn it with. But that won't work on the steel cranks. Still, it's a thought I might try if I have time.

And one I wouldn't have had if you hadn't posted that, because I have known it's possible to drill and tap holes for "shorter" cranks for a long time; just never sparked an idea for tapping them myself without the "right" tool before!

I'm not too worried about my drillpress skills, as I don't even have a drillpress. Can sort of use the lathe for one, if I get around to modifying my vise to bolt to the toolholder. I figure that even if I am off a little bit it can't be much worse than some of the other problems I've created for myself.

[amberwolf]

A couple pics of the wheel with disc hub in it, and the rotor from AJ sitting on it. The black-rimmed wheel is an old rear from CB2, with the destroyed rim from end of last year sometime. Drive side spokes might be good enough to use on this rim's non-disc side as 2x, without being too long to tighten down.

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Still not sure what to do about the other problem, of the other side's spokes being too short for 3x but way too long for 2x:

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[amberwolf]

Another disc plus a thread-on adapter showed up today, from Karma, along with a front and rear hub, both threaded on one side, either of which I could probably use for a CB2 front disk.

hubs disc adapter DSC02937.JPG (24.77 KiB) Viewed 1094 times

However, since they are identical in central tube diameter, spoke flange diameter, and style (differing primarily in length), I am considering cutting both in half, and welding the two threaded ends together, turning them into a flip-flop hub that I can then use as a rear disk-compatible hub, since I already have the one above for a front disk once I resolve the spoke issues.

[amberwolf]

Sort of crosspost from battery/DayGlo Avenger threads:

The TS 60Ah cells arrived today; a bit lighter than I posted, at 42lbs for 10, rather than 50lbs, so actually a bit lighter than my 36V SLA pack. All at 3.31-3.32V.

DSC02943.JPG

Gotta dig out some bolts, make connecting cables, and then perhaps test them out on DGA with the 9C after I finish fixing the caps in the controller.

They'll fill up the bottom half or so of my cargo pods (same ones on DGA and CB2), almost exactly a perfect fit side to side; I think I can almost fit a 6th pair of them front to back but not quite.

DSC02944.JPG

They will not end up mounted in the pods, though; they'll be in the frame in place of the SLA.

Even at just 33V, with no significant sag at the typical currents the powerchair motor takes, they should be pretty good for acceleration.

I might build up a couple of "cells" to series with these, made of 30p LiCo, to get the same Ah rating, and give me 36-40V to play with instead (closer to what the SLA typically has at full charge).


Before I charge them up again or use them deeply I'll want to finish the v2.6 BMS LiFePO4 versions, at least for the LVC/HVC part if not the shunting. Gotta finish making the list of what I still need for them, and post that back in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18333&start=0

[amberwolf]

Interesting:
http://1800recycling.com/2010/06/motorc ... d-objects/
CrazyBike2 has made #4 in this list of 10 recycled-parts "motorcycles".

[BikeFanatic]

Congratulations you have fans everywhere, Not just anybody can fabricate a complicated motor train and cargo bike from junk.

[REdiculous]

I didn't make the list? Maybe next year. Way to go..I know I'm a fan!