Stinky Turnigy 80-100 -Nuvinci semi auto

[AussieJester]

So not only is your girlfriend excellent videographer
she can also diagnose your broken e-bike problems!... shes a keeper Burtie hehe

Recumpence does a neat aluminium adapter with
2 beefy set screws, using one myself, as with all Matts's
products this too is high quality item.

I have 3 of those ChopperUS adapters also, the hole in them is 15mm not sure the size you Need? they are also steel not aluminium...

While your awaiting delivery of an adapter, you could easily fix the broken one IMO. Drill and tap a series of 3-4mm diameter holes around the side of the adapter, cut a disk from appropriate sized aluminium that can be bolted onto the side of the adapter and work as a "shoulder" should be strong enough to get you buy no?

Look forward to seeing more video Burtie i watched iabove vid like 5 times now and still makes me grin like i do when i ride my own bike haha

Best of luck Burtie...

KiM

EDIT:

p.s i think it would be very wise move to also pick up an Eno Burtie....will avoid another "walk of shame" moment in the future as we know those cheapo freewheels won't go the distance with that sort of power :: wink ::

[Burtie]

Thanks for the tips about the adaptor guys.
I took your advice and used a wide flanged version, bored the centre out and filed a keyway.

The revised gearing improves the top speed a bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciTdz1cjgeY


I wonder what is gonna break next

Burtie

[TopCat]

I wonder what is gonna break next

Burtie

Your neck? Sorry mate only kidding
I hope its only a bike part that brakes and not any part of Burtie.

What speeds are you getting?

Regards
Tom

[archer-ca]

WHOA!!! The start of the video startled me!! The Stinky sounds great and you're booking it nicely. Thanks for another great video Burtie.

I think breakdowns and repairs seems to be the norm with our homebuilt ebikes. I've a full rebuilt going on for my Cyclone 1200 and a 2nd ebike on the "to-do" list for next year.

Keep up the great work Burtie and keep 'er shiny side up!

Cheers!

Norman

[Burtie]

So not only is your girlfriend excellent videographer
she can also diagnose your broken e-bike problems!... shes a keeper Burtie hehe

Yeah you are right! ... -I wonder if she is any good at welding??

... p.s i think it would be very wise move to also pick up an Eno Burtie....will avoid another "walk of shame" moment in the future as we know those cheapo freewheels won't go the distance with that sort of power :: wink ::

Still using the cheapie Dicta freewheel at tho mo, seems to be holding up ok, but have an ACS one on order incase it gives up.
Call me a cheapskate, but I am not quite comfortable with the cost of a WI freewheel so I will hold out as long as I can!

I wonder what is gonna break next
Burtie

Your neck? Sorry mate only kidding
I hope its only a bike part that brakes and not any part of Burtie.

What speeds are you getting?

Regards
Tom

Cheers Tom!
The speed in the vid was 40mph (64kph)

.... keep 'er shiny side up!

... and rubber side down. Thanks Norman,

[Goethe]

Great build Burtie!!!

I got a Kona Coiler at the moment that I use for DH riding. The plan is to put motor on this winter and I'm started to plan which way to go.
I really like the way you solved it with the standard gears in use for the motor transmission.

-But I can´t figure out how you build the freewheeling of the front sprocket?
-Could you please explain in detail how this was done?

ENO freewheel for $89.95 http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/white-freewheels.html


/Goethe

Gesunda DH park Sweden

[AussieJester]

-But I can´t figure out how you build the freewheeling of the front sprocket?
-Could you please explain in detail how this was done?

Burtie is using an oild cyclone crank, you can buy them from sickbikeparts for ~25 bucks the freewheel screws onto the crank you then bolt your sprocket to it, you then bolt another sprocket to that sprocket on it runs the motors chain drive. If you want higher end freewheel cranks trials freewheeling crank sets are available for 6 times the price.

KiM

[Goethe]

-But I can´t figure out how you build the freewheeling of the front sprocket?
-Could you please explain in detail how this was done?

Burtie is using an oild cyclone crank, you can buy them from sickbikeparts for ~25 bucks the freewheel screws onto the crank you then bolt your sprocket to it, you then bolt another sprocket to that sprocket on it runs the motors chain drive. If you want higher end freewheel cranks trials freewheeling crank sets are available for 6 times the price.

KiM

Aaah, brilliant!

I´m a bit slow so it took me a while to get it...

-Are the sprockets mounted on each side of the freewheel using the same bolts?

/Goethe

[Goethe]

(The first test run ended after 400 yards in a pile of mangled bike chain )

I really suggest that you use a real chain guide and tensioner!

I use this one and my chain never jumped even if going 30 mph down a rocky DH track.


/Goethe

[Burtie]

Hi Goethe,

Fantastic picture!

The freeweeling crank set is indeed a Cyclone part that I bought direct from Paco at http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-E.htm

I think they can even supply a ready-made 3 chainwheel version of it now.
Some people critisize the quality of them, but I have been using them on 3 different bikes for over a year, without any problems

I modified the 1 chainwheel version by bolting a 2nd 44 tooth BMX chainwheel to the inside of the existing one, using bolts through the chain guard ring fixing holes.

I look forward to reading about your Kona e-conversion

PS. Nice looking tensioner. I would consider something like this for future builds if I ever get any more chain throwing problems.
Burtie

[Burtie]

With the onset of the rainy season I decided to try a bit of weather proofing...

Two hours, much Duck Tape, some plastic cartons and a tin of spray paint later, a reasonable looking, stealth enhancing, screw-on motor and wiring splash guard:

Waterproofing.jpg (133.49 KiB) Viewed 896 times

More Waterproofing.jpg (107.38 KiB) Viewed 903 times

Some testing showed that it keeps the muck out but, perhaps not supprisingly, it limits the cooling airflow around the motor too much
The addition of the skirt bearing on these newer Turnigy outrunners does not help the cooling, because the bearing mounting cause a restriction, less air is drawn through the motor when it is spinning to help cool the stator and magnets.

... so back to the drawing board, ...maybe some forced cooling required ?


EDIT: Just removing one side of the shield improves the cooling a lot, I think there will be no problem now during hard use in our English climate




On a different tack... I recently aquired a 51v 3kw switched mode power supply.
This is a real beast. When you first turn it on, the inrush causes all the lights in the house to flicker

PSU 3kw.jpg (88.5 KiB) Viewed 903 times

When I work out how to tame this thing a bit, I should be able to charge my LiPos from empty in 30 minutes

Of course you need somewhere safe and dry to perform this stunt, so -cue the new metal LiPo charging bunker......

LiPo proof bunker

Charging Shed.jpg (165.68 KiB) Viewed 903 times

Burtie

[etard]

Nice Burtie! I'm glad you have piled it high with twigs and dry branches, should be a real youtube extravaganza.

[Burtie]

I think I might have stored my petrol cans in there as well

[liveforphysics]

Hell of a nice DC/DC you've got there my friend!

That thing is going to love LiPo.

I'm doing 8C charging on my helicopter LiPo packs (turnigy nano), and they stay room temp. 2C charging should be a walk in the park for your packs, I bet you don't even feel any warmth on them at full tilt with that monster charger.

[Ludo91]

Hi, I see you put hall sensors in your ebyke motor. exactly what hall sensor have you used? may you tell me its specific code so I can look it up on DigyKey?
thankyou so much, I posted this question too in another 3d where a discussion about hall sensoring htx motor is up, I hope it`s not double posting in a 3d of yours
Many thanks, Ludo

[Burtie]

Hi Ludo

I used Honeywell ss411a sensors. They are widely available and seem to work well in most conversions on here.
Let us know how you get on




Quick update on that 3kw 51v server psu I was hoping to use as a charger.

HP 226519-001 / 253232-001 PSU

3kw server supply.jpg (63.7 KiB) Viewed 739 times

I found it would supply about 80 amps of charging current into my 12s lipo pack.... for about 5 seconds, then the overload circuitry would shut it down, requiring the mains power to be removed to reset it.

There was not sufficient voltage adjustment inside, to bring the output below 50v, so the unit does not look to be very well suited for 12s lipo charging.
The only way to use it for this for 12s would be to employ some external clever control circuitry, or lossy analog voltage regulation and ballast, which is not so easy at these sort of currents.

If using 18s lipo packs, I guess this big supply would be useful when put in series with a meanwell psu, to make up the additional voltage. I am thinking that the voltage + current regulation already in the meanwell would be used make the whole system an excellent high power 18s charger

These server supplies are all over Ebay for not too much $$, but before you buy one, make sure you can find the information about how to fire it up, they often have a large connector on the back with many anonymous signal pins, some of these pins may need to be tied high or low to enable the output power, some of the pins are auxillary power outputs, so definitely dont need to be tied high or low !!!

EnablePins.jpg (84.37 KiB) Viewed 558 times

Edit: A lot of this stuff looks to be covered well here-
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23609&start=0&hilit=server+supply

Burtie

[Ludo91]

tnks! i`ll update you for sure on my project/findings about hall sensors

[HumboldtRc]

Hi Ludo

Quick update on that 3kw 51v server psu I was hoping to use as a charger.

The attachment 3kw server supply.jpg is no longer available

I found it would supply about 80 amps of charging current into my 12s lipo pack.... for about 5 seconds, then the overload circuitry would shut it down, requiring the mains power to be removed to reset it.

There was not sufficient voltage adjustment inside, to bring the output below 50v, so the unit does not look to be very well suited for 12s lipo charging.
The only way to use it for this for 12s would be to employ some external clever control circuitry, or lossy analog voltage regulation and ballast, which is not so easy at these sort of currents.

The attachment 3kw server supply.jpg is no longer available

Edit: A lot of this stuff looks to be covered well here-
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23609&start=0&hilit=server+supply

Burtie

What i did to get the PS to charge my 12s lipo pack, was add a plastic project box with a small (like 3 or 4 stands of wire) wire soldered to 8awg output wires, filled with water. I use it in line, in between negative of the lipo and the PS, for the first minute or two. Which limits the current to around 50amps so the PS doesn't shut down. Once the amps start to drop down a little bit, i unplug it so i don't have the voltage drop for the rest of the charging cycle.

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[kfong]

Burtie, how has that gearbox been holding up? I looked at the specs and see that it's happy at around 4000rpm. I was going over the numbers and was surprised you reached 40mph. The kv of the motor is much higher or I must be off on my calcs. Does the gearbox get hot at all? I'm thinking of doing the same but want to be sure that the gearbox can handle it. You seem to be pushing it beyond specs.?

[liveforphysics]

Burtie- I don't know the exact model you have there, but my 3kw HP supplies have 3 pots. One trims voltage with a pretty narrow range, and another kinda sorta adjusts its CC level, or at least keeps it from kicking off.

[HumboldtRc]

Burtie- I don't know the exact model you have there, but my 3kw HP supplies have 3 pots. One trims voltage with a pretty narrow range, and another kinda sorta adjusts its CC level, or at least keeps it from kicking off.

How did you keep yours from shutting off...? I would like to know so i don't have to use my ghetto, wire in water, CC limiter. Any pics of the pots? I've taking mine apart (i have 4 of them), but never thought to look for adjustment pots...

[boostjuice]

Burtie, how has that gearbox been holding up? I looked at the specs and see that it's happy at around 4000rpm. I was going over the numbers and was surprised you reached 40mph. The kv of the motor is much higher or I must be off on my calcs. Does the gearbox get hot at all? I'm thinking of doing the same but want to be sure that the gearbox can handle it. You seem to be pushing it beyond specs.?

Burtie's running a Neugart PLE80 20:1 planetary gearbox. According to the manufacturers specs these are rated to;

Max Input speed - 7000rpm
Output Torque nominal loading- 120Nm
Output Torque Shock loading - 192Nm
Radial loading - 650N

http://www.neugartusa.com/Produkte/ple.html

Burtie's running a 1:1 pulley system from his 80-100 to the gearbox input, so maximum nominal torque advisable to have the motor produce is 6Nm steady state, 9.6Nm peak.

To produce a constant 6Nm of motor torque with a Turnigy 130Kv 80-100 you would need to supply the motor with ~81.7Amps phase current steady state.
Peaks/spikes of phase current up to ~131Amps would be the limit of the manufacturer recommended gearbox shock loading for Burtie's setup.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=25094#p362274

At 6Nm steady state input torque, this gearbox/reduction combo can handle up to 4.4Kw @ 7000RPM. Running a 130Kv version Turnigy @ 44V nominal 12S lipo, Max power output potential occurs around 2860rpm (1/2 No-load speed = equilibrium point between BEMF&efficiency), but advisable current input at this point is limited by gearbox torque rating. Efficiency improves at higher RPM, but torque diminishes, so i'm thinking most people use ~50>85% of no load speed as the usable powerband. Staying right on the 6Nm/~81.7A (phase current) limitation means a safe usable ~1.8kW > 3kW between 2860rpm > 4862rpm @ 44V[in theory]. What sort of numbers are you seeing Burtie??

I'm not at all surprised Burtie's gearbox is holding up so well, it really is sized very well for his application in terms of size/weight/reduction vs output torque capability. And to top it off, he got it at a liquidation price. Lots of us are envious....

[kfong]

Thanks boostjuice, the numbers are making sense now. Still wondering the rpm Burtie is actually running for that 40mph, and if he is generating much gearbox heat at those speeds.

[Burtie]

Hey boostjuice,
Those beautiful calculations put my 'back of a fag packet' rough estimates to shame
@kfong,
Yes the gearbox does get a bit warm after extended fast use (5 or 10 miles), but I suspect most of that heat is generated by the motor and conducted through the aluminium face plate to the gearbox.

Top gear ratio from motor to rear wheel is 10:1, wheel is about 27inch diameter, so @40mph, motor will spin at about 4970 RPM ??


@LFP
The part no for the PSU is HP 226519-001 / 253232-001
I did find about 3 pots inside the unit, one was a fine voltage control, one was something to do with the fans and the third was a mystery. I played with all of them, but couldn't get the psu to work in any sort of constant current mode. What is the trick to do this?

@HumboldtRc
I love that wire in water setup of yours I may just have to copy it

[HumboldtRc]

@LFP
The part no for the PSU is attached to the 1st photo. I did find about 3 pots inside the unit, one was a fine voltage control, one was something to do with the fans and the third was a mystery. I played with all of them, but couldn't get the psu to work in any sort of constant current mode. What is the trick to do this?

@HumboldtRc
I love that wire in water setup of yours I may just have to copy it

@LFP
I would also like to know how you adjusted the pots in your PS.

@Burtie
Thanks It works pretty good. I haven't been able to use all of my PS's because of the limited power at my power meter. It is only rated for 50amps at 240volts. I have 4 of them which is 12kw of charging, plus 4 575watt PS's. 14kw charging capabilities! But i'm limited by my meter, i don't want to fry the meter, so i haven't even tried to use all of them. Each of the 3kw PS's say they pull 20amps at 240v. (I don't know how much they rally draw though... because that would be 4800watts input, for 3000watts output. Which can't be... because that would be only 63% efficient, and that much power transformed into heat, would melt the PS, acting like 1800watt heater)