Cuda-E - 4000 watt Shumaker drive upgrade

[recumpence]

No, no, no! Keep the No-Com Avatar! I love it! How many people can boast one of those?!

Warren, your cruiser really needs about 10kw at least. Heck, I can set you up with over 20kw if you like.

What is it they say? "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

Matt

[recumpence]

Oh, on the matter of noise, RPM causes sound. Also, small pulleys with tight belt wrap increase sound. If you run a low RPM motor with a relatively large motor pulley, the sound decreases quite a bit. You can also run the belt in a case (I have one in stock). That quiets it down as well.

Personally, my Catrike motor runs nearly twice as fast as yours and I love the sound. In fact, I do not like something too silent.

That is a personal preference, though.

Matt

[Kurt]

Yes there are good sounds and bad sounds that's for sure.Considering it was filmed in a echo y garage at full throttle unloaded it wasn't that bad. My old Currie gear driven motor was what I would call a a bad sound. When over volted it had Real metallic sharp ringing wine. enough to give you a sore head on long rides.

I am thinking that with my set-up being all belt drive and a big 80 100 motor that doesn't rev as high, things wont be to bad. I guess running the clutch would take some of the need to run super tight belt tension to.

On a recumbent being able to give the motor a squirt of power then free wheel and coast with low drag is a good thing. Would love to see a video of this bike in action.

The little magic shine lights you have are great . I have one on my trike. After reading your post I am keen to try and power it from the main battery. It was just last night I went for a quick ride. I got about 3km from home and the little battery pack ran out on the magic shine. Its easy to forget when you last charged it. I had to make it home using my I phone flash led torch app as a front light.

Kurt

[www.recumbents.com]

Yep, when I took it for a ride last night I had the rear light on solid, and that thing is obnox bright.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

I found a 43T chainring in my box-o-rings and mounted it. There's a bit more clearance for the frame and for the disk brake caliper when I get that mounted.

Now to test it and... its snowing. Arg, Oh well, time to charge the battery anyway.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

[recumpence]

Very cool.

I cannot wait till the summer!

Matt

[www.recumbents.com]

Hi Matt,

I'm not sure what's causing the problem at low speeds. It sounds like the chain is skipping but it's too tight to skip. Chain alignment looks good too, plus I'm using fat BMX chain which should be very alignment tolerant. Also when I finished the ride, the ESC was giving three beeps.

My current theory is some kind of low RPM sync problem. Power when this is happening is pretty low, the cycle analyst says about 350 watts. Is there a ESC adjustment that may help? Looks like I need to buy a castle-link.

-Warren.

[recumpence]

That clicking sound on your video almost sound like your belt is skipping or your freewheel is skipping.

3 beeps and flashes is "Over current". Hmm, it may be that you are hitting the throttle a bit hard at low RPM kicking in the current limiter? That is truely weird, though. It is tough to over current a HV160. I am normally not very careful how I hit the throttle.

One thing that helps quite a bit for some setups is to program the throttle response to very low setting like 1 or even 0. That gives a slight throttle ramp-up and limits the harsh hit on the controller.

Yes, you should get a Castle-Link. They are great and allow you to download info from the on-board logger.

I will call you soon.

Matt

[www.recumbents.com]

I stopped by Matt's place this weekend to have him look at the drive, and he correctly diagnosed the issue as the belt slipping. He tightened it up a bit and it was much better.

Also I had a chance to see his Cattrike with the same motor and drive unit as my bike except 6T rather than my 10T motor. That 6T motor has a lot more power and higher RPM but a bit less efficiency. That trike really goes! If I can make it to work and back with some spare power on my 10Ah battery, I'll probably be moving to the 6T model.

-Warren.

[recumpence]

I say put a 60 tooth chaining on that thing and reterminate to Delta and you will be thrilled with the power!

Matt

[SoSauty]

Well done Warren,

Do you know peak watts or amps your pulling when accelerating up to 30mph and then what it drops back to after cruising a few secs? Think mine peaked at 3,000w then settled back to 1,000 to 1,400 watts around 32-34mph. (I only was able to ride a few minutes, may have a rebuild concept ready next week)

[recumpence]

We downloaded Warren's data while he was here. He, also, peaked at a bit over 3kw. I do not remember what his cruising wattage was, though.

Matt

[www.recumbents.com]

I had a nice ride today to test the range of the bike and just enjoy some time cruising. I went about 50 miles but pedaled for over half of it so it wasn't a great test of the range, but it does tell me it will make it for the 15 mile round trip to work and back.

The Cycle Analyst says the peak wattage is around 3500 watts if I crank the throttle wide open at 10MPH. Flatland cruising at 20MPH takes a bit over 200 watts, 30MPH takes around 700 watts.

The bike makes it up the big hill on the way home at around 25MPH. Plenty fast. I left barely enough power in the battery to get up the hill. It made it up but then I had to pedal the rest of the way home. Matt set the Castle Creations ESC LVC setting to shut down at 39.5 volts to protect the battery and it did that very well. When the CA said 40V, the ESC said no more E-power for the motor.

I'm charging the packs now. The cells were not too well balanced yet (ranging between 3.2 and 3.5 volts) when I started the charge but I'm hearing it takes several cycles for them to start staying in balance. This is only charge #3 and the first time I have depleted the batteries to LVC shutoff. After about half an hour they were all happily at 3.77v.

-Warren.

[katou]

How did you determine that the belt was tight enough? Is there a test for that?

I know that the standard with a V belt is that the belt should deflect approx 1" with "light" pressure, say around 5 lbs of pressure.

Those things look pretty damn tight in the pictures.

Katou

[recumpence]

Cool.

The danger point for lipo is 3v per cell. However, when the cells go out of ballance, that is a good indicator that you are over discharging the pack beyond what is best for it. You have not hurt the pack, but it is still a good idea to try not to hit the LV cutoff if possible.

Your efficiency is phenominal! My recumbent pulls 380 watts at 20mph. You have a very efficient setup there.

You should be good for 25 miles at 20mph without pedalling considering your efficiency.

You should charge it up, go for a 10 mile ride without pedalling (other than to start out) and see exactly how many WH you pulled and you can calculate your WH per mile. I am guessing it will be under 12wh per mile at an average speed of 20mph.

Matt

[recumpence]

How did you determine that the belt was tight enough? Is there a test for that?

I know that the standard with a V belt is that the belt should deflect approx 1" with "light" pressure, say around 5 lbs of pressure.

Those things look pretty damn tight in the pictures.

Katou

A timing belt requires a bit of tension to work properly. I actually make it very snug, indeed. It should barely deflect at all. This may seem too tight. However, it is actually correct for this type of belt.

Matt

[katou]

12 wh per mile is phenomenal! That is the lowest consumption I've seen anyone post for a reasonable cruising speed in 2 years!

Is that your work Recumpence? I seem to remember you saying something about designing for efficiency for Warren's drive?

This is totally kicking my ass to finish my drive (also for a recumbent).

Katou

[www.recumbents.com]

Yes, Matt set up my drivetrain for high efficiency. It pulls nicely but not hard like his vehicles. His Catrike with the 6T 3210 pulls like crazy and if I had more Ah available I would be swapping out my motor for that one in a heartbeat. Matt says my motor is efficient between 300 and 700 watts, and that one is efficient starting at around 1500 watts. The 6T would be better for a mountain bike because those do take over 1000 watts to cruise at 30MPH. I have not ridden his yellow trike yet, but that has a 3220 and is faster yet.

The Cycle Analyst will tell me the wh/mile. I should have noted that too today. I'll check it at 20MPH and 30MPH next time I can get the bike out.

BTW I updated the video "e-recumbent RC drive test 3" at the top of this page. You should find it amusing. I should have posted it yesterday...

-Warren.

[recumpence]

My Actionbent Midracer has seen 12wh per mile at 20mph if I really nurse it. My Catrike 700 averages 14.4 wh per mile at 20mph. So, I am guessing Warrens recumbent may be as low as 10wh per mile. The lowest consumption I have ever heard of personally was 9wh per mile at 20mph.

At any rate, yes, Warren's system is setup for the highest possible efficiency.

Warren, I bet if you were to go to Delta and gear it back down to 30mph, you would only lose maybe 15% or so in efficiency and gain some serious punch! But, then again, I do understand the drive for extreme efficiency.

Matt

[katou]

Wow, that is indeed low power consumption. Where did you see 9 wh/mile?

I wonder what a semi faired recumbent would get? I keep wondering whether the best idea for most bang is to fair the front, or the rear.

I'm guessing that the info regarding best rpm/wattage for efficiency came from the manufacturer?

Warren, I re-watched the movie, it seemed as before. Did I miss something? I kept watching for flames or amazed faces on passers-by, but I didn't see anything different.

Katou

PS. I took my actionbent SWB out for a spin last night, only the 3rd time I've had it out since I bought it used. I am very quickly learning why most nice recumbents have suspension!! In addition, the SWB sure is SWB. That thing is so twitchy I feel like a moment's inattention might send me into a parked car. I'll have to do something about that. As soon as I figure out what.

[www.recumbents.com]

The Actionbent SWBs aren't known for their great handling, but give it time, before long it will be very natural.

Maybe it was too subtle. Maybe you blinked.
On the second fast pass by the camera the recumbent is doing a wheelie due to the massive power of the motor as it comes into view of the camera.

-Warren.

[AussieJester]

Maybe it was too subtle. Maybe you blinked.
On the second fast pass by the camera the recumbent is doing a wheelie due to the massive power of the motor as it comes into view of the camera.

recumbent_mono.JPG

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hehehe

KiM

[katou]

Ok, rewatched it, now I see it. It looks like you're getting the front 2' up there? Is that correct? That must have been a bit... uh, exciting?

I bought a 3215 because I didn't think the 3210 would have enough power... I may have overshot me thinks.

Katou

[gogo]

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