2WD Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by karma » Mar 24 2011 4:53pm

amberwolf do you have a link to the cfl light mod you did some time back? running it off pack voltage.

thanks :wink:


lol forget it i see it in your sig

cheers

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mar 25 2011 2:23am

Haha; yeah, I still have it linked there. I wish I could put more than 4 (5?) URLs in the sig line; I'd link each of my main project threads.


That stupid intermittent cutout of the motor started again today, and got worse and worse as I rode, until it was making the bike shudder hard sometimes as I neared home. It's not just losing power to the controller, because I can flick the breaker completely off and on and whatnot, while riding and while accelerating, and it doesn't do what this does.

This problem (just liek before) is as if I was getting regen or plug braking action from high speed, but happens even at a dead stop, where I am trying to start moving. Imagine your front brake being squeezed intermittently by an epileptic. Kinda like that. :(

At first I thought it might be voltage sag on the pack cutting down below LVC and shutting down the controller, but it happens even under extremely light load (1-2A) while nearly coasting at various speeds, and there is little sag showing on teh CA.

While at lunch at work, I rechecked all my connections and crimps, and the blade fuses, and found none that appear to be a problem. When it got real bad on teh way home I stopped under a streetlight and rechecked, and it worked fine for a bit, so there IS a problem somewhere. I need to go over the whole thing tomorrow in daylight and with a meter and see if I can find it.



Today's typical commute data, some of which is not really valid, marked iwth *.
20m 8s trip time
4.79miles
137mph max *
14.2mph avg

24Wh/mile
2,458Ah
115.24Wh
50.42Amax

54.6Vstart (with charger disconnected for more than 12 hours, instead of trickling overnight)
50.9Vrest
19.1Vmin *
Vmin in this case is showing how far it was able to fall in the intermittent power cuts, I think. It also helps me see that it is prior to the CA shunt, but unfortunatly taht's not too helpful, as it only eliminates teh controller power connection. ;)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mar 25 2011 10:01pm

Charging data:
PackA (TWM2):
25.62 Vstart
28.13 Vfinish (w/charger just disconnected)
2.93Ap
88.7Wp
130.9 Wh
4.606 Ah

PackB (TWM1):
25.63Vstart
28.13Vfinish (w/charger just disconnected)
2.98Ap
90.2Wp
126.9 Wh
4.459 Ah

PackC (WU1):
13.49Vstart
14.04Vfinish (w/charger just disconnected)
2.89Ap
44.7Wp
24.9 Wh
1.655 Ah


Also, I tested out Auraslip's old kickstand on DGA:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 79#p380579

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mar 26 2011 3:37am

Might be testing a leaf spring idea for the other bike on CB2. What details I have are here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 42#p380642
Image

Regarding the electrical problem I was having, I went thru all teh wiring and can't find an issue, so I must be missing something somewhere. While I was at it, I removed the Methods' 18FET XieChang until i can get it working with the 9C. Gonna see if I can make that Crystalyte controller from Karma work with it easily. Until then I just have the generic 12FET on there, same as has been running it since the Undead Race.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mar 28 2011 12:55am

Even on the bumpiest road bits I could find, I had no issues with cutouts today, so whatever I did checking the wiring fixed it, which is bad because I don't know what it was, so it's gonna come back. :(


Normal commute today, but a slightly different route due to traffic being pretty bad on the way to work, ended up a tad shorter.

18m 2s trip time
4.505miles
22.4mph max
14.9mph avg

24Wh/mile
2.291Ah
106.92Wh
47.28Amax

56.8Vstart
50.8Vrest
41.7Vmin

Charge data:
PackA (TWM2):
2551. Vstart
29.28. Vfinish (w/charger just disconnected)
2.94Ap
88.4Wp
123.4 Wh :)
1.361 Ah

PackB (TWM1):
25.49Vstart
29.27Vfinish (w/charger just disconnected)
2.98Ap
89.9Wp
118.8 Wh
4.193 Ah

PackC (WU1):
13.55Vstart
14.16Vfinish (w/charger just disconnected)
2.88Ap
44.5Wp
24 Wh
1.589 Ah

Also, I note that when not using much power from PackC, it doesn't need to balance very much, as it barely gets warm. When using it as part of the traction pack, balancing takes a while and it gets pretty toasty.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 02 2011 10:46pm

I have a few days of ride/charge data to post, that I was too busy with other things to do, but I can't find the notepad with it, so that'll come when I do. :roll:

Mostly posting to show the added 40W halogen with lens, only mounted temporarily as shown until I know if it will do what I want, or if it'll need different focal point or lenses, or maybe none at all. I have a tube somewhere that'll fit over the outside of that lens assembly, and let me slide it back and forth for focusing. Somewhere. :(

Both off with flash:
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Both on with flash:
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Both on without flash:
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Anyway, the pics are of, in this order:
--both CFL and halogen
--Halogen only
--CFL only
First is against the door, about 3 feet from the headlight, with the room light off. Next is against the roof-scrap waste container out in the front yard, about 20 feet from the headlight (thru the open front door).
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It does eat up a lot of power, though:
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3.51A, 43.3W. It drags down PackC from 13.1Vrest to 12.34V.
I won't be running it all the time, though, just at night when I need to see.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 04 2011 1:14am

Ok, so that lasted about 35 feet once I turned it on, on my way home from work. :(
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Apparently the bulb's internal construction is such that the epoxy (or whatever they use to glue the bulb itself into the reflector) disintegrated, allowing the bulb to fall forward out of the reflector, breaking it's wires to the two pins on the back. :roll:
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When I held it to take the pic, more of the adhesive powdered away, and crumbled like this:
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There's enough left of the bulb's wires to solder to, so I can fix it, but dangit this is annoying. Plus I doubt any glue I have will take the heat it puts out very well. Silicone is probably the best alternative I have. We'll see. I won't put much on there, either, so that I can take it out of the reflector if it fails again, either to fix it or to re-use the reflector with something else. :)

On the "bright" side, it did work well enough as a spot to help fill the CFL's lighting.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 06 2011 3:35am

The last two days have been very frustrating and painful, trying to get the bike in and out of the house for my work commute. The morons re-roofing the house I'm renting decided it would be nifty to push that waste container (already in my way of getting in and out, but barely passable) right up to the house, essentially blocking the front door to all but a person walking in and out:
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So I basically ahve to push the bike a little bit out, then lift half it's weight upward and sideways to the left a bit, push a little farther out, lift again, and do this for about 10 or 15 minutes, including frequent pauses for rest and breath-catching, as well as letting my back and joints stop screaming. :(

Getting it back in is even worse, because I'm already exhausted from work, where I've been walking around all day on my cane because I hurt too much from the adventure of getting the bike out to ride it. :(

If I didn't hurt so bad already from doing it the first time, yesterday (Monday), I'd've just used DayGlo Avenger isntead, but I can't get on it to ride it nor could I stay on it when I have to stop and start (many times during my commute).

Unless I take the side pod off, and move a cabinet/table (filled with heavy glass dishes) CB2 won't fit thru the kitchen door and kitchen to get it out the back room door, and then thru the backyard and fence gates. And that adventure would hurt about as bad as the front door does right now.

When I first saw the thing so close, I went out there and told them they needed to move it so I could leave for work, and they just said that they have to have it that close to get stuff into it. I told them then they could put it in the driveway, since that doesnt' get used here (they actually were supposed to put it there in the first place, but naturally being morons they couldn't be bothered to do that right either). They had no answer for that so they just went back to roofing and refused to respond to me any further, forcing me to do the very painful dance of wiggling/lifiting the bike around the doorframe (scratching up the door and frame and porch post, too, which I'm not going to fix--the landlord can deal with them over that).

I advised the landlord of the problem as soon as I could yesterday, and she talked to them but they said they can't move it because it's too full now, which is BS. It's barely got anything in it, relative to it's own weight, so they are just jerking us around. I walked into it and all that stuff is really loosely packed, almost all of it is at the end close to the house. I can clearly see the bottom of the container in many places, and walking on the stuff squishes down onto the metal bottom easily, clanging and scraping.
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They moved it the several feet closer to the house with their truck, they can damn sure do it the other way around, but they won't. They didnt' even try--there are no marks anywhere around the street that they attempted to do it, nor is there ANY change in the position of it or in the little wheel-ruts it left in the yard.

She apologized and said the best she could say was they might be done with it tomorrow or the next day. Great. If they move it on Thursday then it'll be just in time for me to be home for the weekend anyway, not NEEDING to get the bike out the door!


Stupid damn morons. :evil:


Was gonna post data too, but now I think I better wait till later; I dont' wanna think about antyhing to do with this right now. :(

I will go ahead and post the other pic I took, of a way to carry my cane on there without it rattling around the way I had it before (top end in the white seat-back support that holds the rear lighting, bottom end in the left cargo pod). Now I can just wrap the velcro strap around it and the right cargo rail, with the cane trapped at the front between the seat bottom rail and the cargo cross rails.
DSC04148.JPG
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No rattle, not as easy to put it away or get it off the bike, but more secure.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 08 2011 8:27pm

After what I thought was such a good day today, since for instance they finally took away that stupid waste container, I realized that I lost my entire bike toolkit last night.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 16#p387216

Things are not going well for me or my projects right now.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 15 2011 7:31pm

So now that I have finally decided there's just not enough time to finish the other bike before the race:

I am working on this one's little things that need to be done, as I think I can actually accomplish them in time. :) Even if not, I can still at least ride it on the track for a few laps of the race or a heat (I don't have enough battery to do a heat *and* the race).

Right now I'm taking a break for food and rest, and posting what I've got so far.

As noted in the linked post above:

First thing I did today though was to go get some things I had to have, like a spoke wrench and chain tool, because I simply can't get the other chaintool above to work right. I must be stupid or something, or else it requires more hands than I have. :( Fortunately, my older sister (not the crazy one) just sent me an early birthday present of a little bit of money to spend on bike stuff (or whatever).

So it was off to Build-A-Bike over at 43rd Ave & Bethany, after a stop at the bank and grocery store and a couple of thrift stores, because BAB tends to have good usable stuff on their junk shelf for really cheap, often low enough for me to afford, and they have the lowest price on the tools I needed, even including the exact models I already had (the chain tool was a lot less than it originally cost me, less than half!).

The above stuff was on their junk shelf, for more than I wanted to spend but worth it AFAICT:
Image
26" Suntour M2000 steel fork, appears to be 80mm travel (might be less, I can't squish it all the way by hand but it's more than 40, AFAICT), uncut 1-1/8" threadless steerer. Has just canti/vbrake bosses, no disc, but I can fix that since it's steel. ;) There were also two forks that had both disc and bosses, one steel and one alloy, but the alloy one was jammed and would need repair, and the steel one was MadeInChina brand and twice as heavy as the Suntour (which isn't very light). All the same price, so I bought the Suntour.

These will go on CB2 right now, after I weld on a second headtube (1-1-8") in front of the 1" one already there. I should be able to do it safely, welding some plates across the sides of both of them to increase strength across them both to the top/downtubes of the front of CB2. I'm sure the extra inch-and-a-half or so of length this adds to CB2 will change the steering/geometry a tiny bit, but it shouldn't be too different.

Of more import will be the fact that the steering linkage won't be exactly the same anymore, as I don't have a threadless stem that has the same exact length as the threaded one I am currently using on the 1" threaded fork already on CB2. I'll need to use one of the stems that was about to be used on the new bike and weld a linkage tab onto it to give it the same length (or as close as possible) to the existing one, so it doens't change my steering ratio.

Ideally I'd like to fix the limited-steering-angle problem with CB2 at this time, but I don't wanna mess it up and not have it usable for the race, so I will leave alone all currently working critical parts. :) Later, I will see about that.


SInce the brakes kinda suck, too, I'm going to try out these:
Image
Avid "single-finger 5" vbrake arms, with bolts/washers and not-very-worn pads. No noodle, though, so I'll have to just have the cable coming in from the side instead of above.

Or the Tektro vbrake arms with bolts/washers and slightly less-worn pads. Also no noodle.

For the race, I may move the Honda scooter brake lever/control cluster on the left inward a bit, so I have room for one of the Shimano combo trigger-shifter (7/3) / brake levers, for vbrakes. In great condition and appear to work fine (though cant' tell for sure till they're hooked up). That will run my front brake.

I'll put the righthand one on, too, if i have time to weld on bosses to the rear frame and install rear brakes, but I doubt I'll have time for that. If I do have the time, then I'll use for the rear whichever arms above aren't used on teh front.


I have a metal box I'm going to bolt to the left side just forward of where the cargo pod usually does, which since it doesn't go down as far and isn't as wide ought to let me lean hard over for left turns during the race. This box will hold the Vpower pack. The NiMH will stay where it is in the center frame, 48V traction and 12V lighting. If I can fit it in, the 36V/9Ah NiMH will go in there too. Then I'll series the Vpower and the NiMH and see if it blows up my controller.

I have two mostly-working ones right now that *should* take 100V, so we'll see how close I get to that. I think I can series the either the 48V NiMH or 48V Vpower and the 36V NiMH without exceeding that, hot off the charger. If I parallel the two 24V NiMH packs that are currently in series for 48V traction pack, then series those with the 48V Vpower, that should also work and give me a lot more oompf, but I need to dig out some hefty diodes to stick between the NiMH so tehy dont' unevenly draw form each other and end up damaged or something. If I have to I'll run without diodes, but I don't know if it is safe.


Lastly, for the major changes, I may just swap out the 9C 9x7 stator for the GM 9x5 stator, which IIRC should be a significantly faster wind. That would keep me from having to series stuff for high voltage, just ot get higher speeds. Then I'll also use the vented covers, and take both the old covers and the 9C stator with me, just in case.

In a bit I'll be back to working on the stuff instead of writing about it. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 16 2011 2:14am

So I got the headtube welded on, though it sure looks crappy there should be sufficient metal there to hold it.
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I meant to also weld on side plates, but got distracted by something (I think the dogs, but I forget, it's been a few hours now), and only remembered once I sat down to eat and rest and post.
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I'll have to do it next, before I actually bolt on the new fork.


Next step was to set to work on moving the hubmotor over to the new fork, including whatever torque arm changes would be needed (since it's fatter at the bottom than the original, I knew the stub arm wouldn't fit the same without at least washers).
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It needed a stack of two fairly thick washers, about 5-6mm total, to fit with only a minimal bend in it. I also had to lightly file the dropouts on the fork to make them a tad deeper and a perfect tap-on fit (rather than a sledgehammer fit).
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I also had to file the "lawyer lips" flat so the rest of the washers would seat correctly. They're far too large to fit in the little well provided for the typical quick-release hub nuts.

I figured that since I intend to run a lot higher power than normal on this for the race, I'd better add a second torque arm, also so that I can use regen braking if I can make it work at such a high voltage (probably not, without controller mods I'm not willing to make at this late stage, given my tiredness). All I had around was a wrench, and I'm too wiped out to make anything proper, so that's what I used on the right side.
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Naturally the short hose clamps I had used on the other torque arm/fork wont' fit around this fork's fat legs, so I had to use the only two good hose clamps I had left (the ones that had been holding the two frames together on the bike I was building, until I welded it a day or two ago).
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As soon as I had it all tightened down, I realized I had totally forgotten to change the solid covers to the ventilated ones. :roll:

So, after taking it all apart again, here's some pics of the inside of it, still pristine and new looking (still smells like Pactra model paint, just like it did the first time I opened it up). Before I took anything off, I took pics of the phase and hall connectors so I can put them back the same way if I screw them up in the process. :)
9c hall order (12fet xc generic) DSC04248.JPG
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9c phase order (12fet xc generic) DSC04250.JPG
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The right side of the 9C:
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The GM stator out of the motor the covers came from:
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I seriously considered putting this stator in instead of my 9C, because it's a 9x5 instead of 9x7. I wasted probably 15-30 minutes deciding, then couldn't decide so i left it alone. :roll:
Then the covers:
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Then the left side of the 9C:
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So about then I figure I"m done, and I lift up the bike (no easy task) and wiggle the fork's steerer into the headtube I welded on:
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I bolted on the Avid brake arms, and had to bend their springs a tad cuz they don't have enough strength to pull away from the rim (a complaint I saw in a few places when checking reviews for a minute today). Was about to adjust the pads to the rim when I realized I hadn't changed the balding tire out.

(&@#(*&%&()()&$. :evil: :oops:

That's when I took a break and sat down to eat and post. :roll:

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 16 2011 5:14pm

Ok, probably last post before Evoforce comes by to pick me and the bike up to head down to the race. I just woke up about 2 hours ago from an involuntary nap, while i was making my number plate. Dogs woke me up wondering where breakfast is. :oops: I had intended to feed them as late as possible just so they aren't as hungry for as long while I'm down at the race, since they're going to miss dinner tonite, but I didn't mean it to be quite this late. :roll: I was worried that I'd missed Evoforce's call but not yet; I guess things are working even less well for him than they are for me. :(


***********
While typing this up I got busy and didn't post when I wrote it. postng now just befoe i leave.
***********

A bit after dawn:
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I barely got the bike done, and somewhere something has changed enough in the steering to make it touchy. I thought I had measured and put the pivots in the same place they had been before, but apparently not, as it is noticeably more sensitive to steering input now, meaning I must have made the distance between front fork center and steering tie rod pivot longer.
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I can't find the ruler now, so I am not sure exactly what it is now, but here's what it looks like one compared to the other:

I have never been any good at measuring and then marking and building--things always come out wrong, often by a lot, even though I can re-measure and they are teh same as what I marked and measured, so I don't understand how it happens. Local spatial geometry flux, I guess. I do better by guess and by gosh, though still things aren't always right.

The new pivot is made by welding an alternator bracket from a car (nice hard thick steel) into the side of a steel stem. I cut a notch in teh stem's box first, so the bracket goes inside and pushes against more than just the outer wall, so it doesn't fold and twist the stem's box metal. Then it's welded around the join. I had to weld the nut to the bottom of the slot, because no matter what else I used for lockwashers/etc, it just slipped under the force of steering, even while stationary. Would've been horrible on the road. :shock:


Anyhow, if I have time, I'm going to drill one extra hole here:
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on the handlebar end's pivot tab, and hopefully it will make it less twitchy. If not I will just bolt it back to the original hole, I guess.

I know the frame geometry is a slightly bit different, because the fork sticks out a little bit longer due to the longer (60mm) travel (vs 30-40 at most for the old one), plus the inch-and-a-half or so more forward position of the headtube that was added, despite the lowering of that headtube by about 1/2" (to interleave the bearing races to make a closer fit).
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Oh, and the ugly metal bar sticking out in front is only doing so because I ran out of cutting discs that fit the Makita's arbor. I have a whole pack of them that fit my HF one, but I cannot get the wire brush off the HF grinder for the life of me. :( So until I do, the bar stays sticking out, I guess. :roll: It's one of the legs on a 5-wheel office chair someone tossed out, and it is VERY stout steel, 1/4" thick. Not what I planned on using here but I didn't really have time to find and cut out what I wanted to, and this will work as well as the other, just uglier.
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I rode it around in the predawn light using just my regular 48V NiMH and it feels a tad scary as speed goes up, just up to 15-20MPH in the neighborhood, because of the twitchiness. I tried to get used to it, and I think I could after a bit, but I wanna fix it as soon as I am awake enough to use a powertool safely. ;)


Then just as the sun peeked over the horizon, I took it back inside and worked out the battery box for the VPower pack (since this bike doesnt' ahve room for it in the frame along with the NiMH, unlike the one I was building for it). Turns out these old powerchair battery boxes (originally intended for a single SLA in each one!) are just about perfect for this pack plus it's BMS.

One little problem I had at first was that when I tried to hook it up to the regular battery input to the bike, positive first, I got sparks up front at the little metal brackets that hold the front turn signals on. :? That was so wierd I had to sit back and think for a while, because there is NO WAY that the Vpower pack, in a plastic box, could POSSIBLY be grounding to something on the frame. But it didn't happen with the regular NiMH, and the Vpower worked fine just plugged directly into the CA/controller, so....

I took the bungee and Kydex off, and found that I'd managed to push the BMS with it's shunts right up against the front top bolt on the box. Danged lucky it was the shunts (ground), or I would probably have smoked the BMS. :( As it was, whatever overload protection it has kicked in and cut off current right after the spark, so I guess it does work. :) Still worked after I fixed the problem and moved the BMS to the outside part of the top of the box. I have heavy foam and stuff that prevents the battery itself from possibly contacting the plate, it just doesn't stick up above the battery to prtect the BMS.
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I didn't remember to take a pic, but the box is secured to the same holes that the much larger cargo pod uses on the rails, by some old bolts that once held front casters to a Quickie wheelchair's frame, with very large fender washers on the inside, and an aluminum plate almost the full size of the side of the box between the washers and the ABS box itself, to spread the stress over a wider area.

I still wouldn't want to ride over really bumpy roads with it, as the plastic would eventually shear thru on the corners at the edges of the aluminum plate inside, most likely, with the heavy Vpower pack in there. But for the smooth track at the race, it should be ok.

It's on the left side because there is only one big left turn that I recall, and almost all right turns. Even so, it's high enough and narrow enough that I can still make a decently hard left turn without worrying about it. It doesnt' stick out much more than the seat itself does, unlike the cargo pod, and it doesn't stick down nearly as far as the pod (by several inches).

I couldn't find the lid at first (despite having two complete boxes I couldn't even find the other one, either), so I used a couple of pieces of 1/4" Kydex that will eventually become a "dashboard" panel (probably) as a lid, held on with a really thick bungee cord donated to me yesterday by local friends.

After my "nap", while feeding the dogs, I found both the lid and the other box as I was leaving the utility room half of the dog food is in, at eye level on a shelf. :roll: No time to fashion hinges and latch now, so I just used the same bungee cord as above. ;)
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The front number plate is also finished,
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plus I just drew another one on a construction vest to tie over the back of the seat:
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THe front plate is a piece of recycled roofing tin flashing, saved from the recent reroofing of the house. I covered it in white sticker paper that for some wierd reason was used as packing material for a bunch of pooper scoopers at work. :? It's pretty crappy sticker paper, so maybe that's why. :) I just ziptied it to the handlebars, hanging from two corners.


Oh, and the brakes: I ended up just using one of the Shimano levers I had laying around (I think it's the left one off The Velcro Eclipse that I swapped out for an ebrake handle), as there was a serious space conflict between the honda cluster and the combo shifter, due to the curve of the bars right there. Just the lever fits fine, and makes the left spacing the same as the right (which has the thumb throttle there instead of a brake lever).
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The brakes work better overall than the old ones, but I have a new problem now: If I apply them hard, then a few times of that starts making the fork wiggle. I found that the steerer tube clamp to hold the bearings and races in is being forced up the tube just a hair each time, eventually resulting in enough slop to wiggle. :(

This is probably because I don't have a proper clamp the right size for it, nor do I have the right size bearings or races, apparently. I thought I did, from the tan Mongoose that the disc fork came from for the other bike, but I've apparnetly misplaced ALL of the hardware for it, and the stuff I have in a bag with the fork is NOT it (is for a threaded fork). :? SO the clamp I am using is for a larger diameter tube (probably a thick BMX seatpost?) and I had to shim it to get it to clamp on the steerer. Tightening it is a nightmare, as I have to alternately tighten each of the two bolts a half turn or so, all the while holding a prybar between the top of teh clamp and the bottom of the stem, to force the clamp down the tube against the bearing race harder. Takes 20-30 minutes to do, with my hands and clumsiness. :roll:

I can't fix it now, as I don't have anyting else to use as the clamp except other things that will cause different problems. I can't use the stem itself, as I need to be able to play with it's position for the steering, and it has to be way higher up than the clamp. I'll just have to live with the wiggle, which really sucks.

Oh, and since I was using the Honda brake lever's switch for my brakelight, I stuck a spring off a dead 6V lantern battery, twisted and mangled to fit, under the lever to hold it in it's nominal position, so when I squeeze the actual Shimano brake lever I can also easily just touch the other one for brakelights. (or I can do it just to tap the lights without actually braking, if I ever had a reason).
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 19 2011 4:44am

Crossposted from the DR2011 thread, describing my ride, trip, results, and crash results:

I'm alive, though I'd like to hacksaw my right leg off just about halfway down the shin. :( It got caught under the bike as I went down, I think, twisted backwards based on the bruises (which happen to match part of the frame). I am having trouble remembering exactly how everything went down once the crash began. LFP's jacket and gloves saved me from severe road rash, though, and my minimal and old knee/shin protection saved my from much worse damage to my lower right leg. I hope I didn't tear them up; I never got a chance to look at them after I took them off to check myself out.

Race was fun while it lasted, but I didn't even make it two laps into Heat B1 (the first one I could ride in, as we arrived too late for the early ones or any practice runs). After the crash I wanted to get back in but couldn't do it.

The problem is as LFP pointed out the steering, adn there are two independent problems that resulted in my crash, really. He had his GF take a couple of pics of him on CrazyBike2 as he was rolling in the pits, and you can kinda see him decide something in the second one--probably that it is called Crazy for a reason. :lol:
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I screwed up the geometry when I hurriedly added a second larger headtube for the 1-1/8" threadless Suntour fork I'd gotten the day before (day of? I forget already), being in too much of a hurry to think right, I guess, and just putting it parallel to the original, instead of pointing it down more (angled farther forward at the top).

So I have to cut it off and reweld it back on at the correct angle (which I will have to see if I can measure off the old setup that I have to put back on tomorrow so I can ride it safely to work Tuesday). If I can ensure the contact patch ends up in teh same place as the old one, theoretically I think it should steer the same as it did before I messed it up, or at least not get the shimmies.
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The other problem is the steering tie rod angles/distances from centers. Basically I accidentally increased the steering ratio, so that it takes much less handlebar turning to cause the front wheel to turn a lot, like having power steering in a car vs manual. So it is far too twitchy and reactive now. Plus when LFP was going to ride it, the tie rod front end was loosened at the eyebolt stem into the rod, and it wiggled a LOT, making eerything worse.

Combine the two problems and it results in a nearly unrideable (very unstable) bike, which I kept on the track by brute force for almost two laps, losing control as I braked hard right at the harpin entrance to turn 13 (same place I slid out in the gravel at Undead 2010, when I was going way too fast to make the turn). I wasn't even going maybe 20MPh right at that moment, decelerating still, when I lost it. You can see me tapping the brakes trying to control it just before the turn where I lost it, in Dave's (FR31) video linked last page or two of the thread. (yes, I have brake lights :))


At first I was just gonna get up and go again, but I couldn't put any weight on the foot, and the way it had been twisted under me I thought I'd broken my shinbones or something and just couldn't feel it yet, As I was helped off the track, I could start feeling the bad stuff. By the time I was back in the pits and trying to get the gear off and then my shoe and sock so the guy (sorry,c an't remember his name :() could see it, it was hurting enough I couldn't even get myself off the bike even with my cane. Wasn't very swollen yet, and there was no apparent external injury at all.

Man, I wanted to just get back on the bike and go back out there, but I couldn't. I knew that if I had to put a foot down for any reason, it would be the right one, and I'd snap it off like a twig (or wish I had). :( I spent quite a while trying to decide if I could do it anyway, but it only got worse, then the actual race was called and I couldn't even hardly get out of the chair, and thus had it decided for me (even though I think I'd already given up).

The bike itself is basically fine, although a piece of brakelight cover plastic broke off (took a while to actually come off):
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Plus the mount of the headlight cracked so it wobbles around:
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and I scraped up the right edge of the fork crown pretty deeply (at least a mm or two of material is gone in those spots):
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I might've bent the right crank a little bit, but I can't see for sure and it still clears everything, so I don't care. :) This bent cargo pod rail is more serious, but once I am able to use a crowbar or long tube to lever it back outward, it'll be fine too:
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As hard as I went down I'm surprised there isn't more damage to me or the bike. :shock:


Right now I can't actually move the foot itself more than about half an inch in any direction. Well, if I use my hands to move it I can, but that is a very bad thing. :( I'll live, though. I started out the day of the race walking on a cane already, but left needing a wheelchair, really, and not even having crutches.

Evoforce loaned me his while we were back at his place troubleshooting his battery problem that kept his big pack out of the race, and until we were done and back at my place where I transferred into a wheelchair I picked up from Freecycle a while back (knowing I'd need it eventually). Gotta dig out my own crutches (originally bought from thrift stores/etc. to make things out of hte tubing) tomorrow, so I can at least walk while at work.

Never been on crutches or a wheelchair before, and I gotta say that they both suck; the crutches are ok but hurt after a few minutes, the wheelchair sucks because I can't maneuver it inside my house mostly due to dogs in the way and too little space to turn around in, etc., with all my stuff arranged the way it is (where of course I can't move most of it now).

This is as of an hour ago, before I laid down, finally, after getting home about an hour before that, and placating a bunch of viciously slimy-tongued dogs that immediately assaulted me upon arrival. ;)
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Ibuprofen is helping a little bit, as is swapping ice/heat in and out every 20min or so, but it still feels like I have an SLA on my leg instead of a foot. Or rather, like I dropped one ON my foot so hard that it melded with it. :roll:

I dunno if I can do my job at all like this, and am still trying to decide if I will use a walker, crutches, or wheelchair the first day or two (at least), to get around the store.

Still, I'd do it again (though if I could do it over, I'd just leave the stupid fork and headtube alone and use the crappy junk I started with on there--at least I KNOW that worked fine, even if the fork legs wiggled back and forth during braking inside the suspension tubes. :lol: ).


Big thanks to LFP for the room and stuff; both Evoforce and I were totally exhausted and it'd've sucked to drive back without sleep. Not sure if it would've even been possible. Neither of us woke in time for the swapmeet--oh, well, I couldn't've walked around in it anyway, as my foot and leg were already stiff balloons by then, and with only the one cane to walk with, my right hand was killing me from taking all my weight while my left knee was telling me "stop or die" at every hop.


Great fun meeting everyone that was there; wish there had been lots more time to talk (and less noise as I couldn't hear over the engines most of the time). Thanks to SoSauty for the charger (I'm sure I can figure out what's wrong with it's power supply and fix it). BTW, if anyone found a loose CA with shunt cut off of it, I think that was dropped somewhere (I didn't see it in the box so maybe it didn't even make it in there?).

Thanks to Evoforce for the transport and company; also interesting and fun seeing his home projects like the solar stuff, etc., when we stopped by his place on the way back to check out the battery pack issue.

Thansk to whoever gave me the trophy anyway, despite not even actually making it to the race; though it doesn't quite feel right since it does say "best finish" recumbent...I didn't finish and it sure wasn't best. :lol:
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I hope I didn't forget anything; I'm still so tired but can't sleep yet. Dogs will keep me up for a while just glad I'm back since I am hardly ever away from them more than a few hours at a time (for work, mostly). Now if I can just keep them from trying to sleep on my foot/leg....

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 19 2011 4:46am

Crossposted frm the DR2011 thread, about my ER trip for the injury, and putting CB2 back to it's original frontend setup to fix the stupid steering/shimmy I introduced by changing it:


Shortform: I am "ok", I guess. Nothing "serious" according to those that saw me at the ER. "Just" a fractured fibula and sprained ankle.


Longform: Got to the ER about 330pm, and only took about two hours, which must be some kind of record. There was only ONE person waiting when I got there, and one in registration. Was about 15 minutes between seeing each different nurse, doctor, tech, paperpusher, etc., so it took a while to actually finish, but there was no hours-long wait like I had with my mom years back (where once we waited 3-4 hours in the lobby while she was having a heart attack, and some poor guy ahead of us was bleeding all over the floor, already passed out from it, because they were simply that crowded!).


Anyway, turns out I actually have a broken, or at least fractured, leg. The "fibula" is fractured, although for some reason the attending doctor couldn't tell me where (or was ignoring my question). Both of the nurses and the pre-screen doctor and the x-ray tech all said that the blood pooling under the skin and swelling my whole leg and foot up is "perfectly normal" for this type of ankle injury, and "not to worry", that as long as I keep it elevated above my heart it will drain and heal, especially once it is wrapped to keep pressure on the whole thing.

Other than the xray, and a distant visual glance over the bruising (no physical examination at all), there was no other exam. All they did for treatment was to make an L-splint under my foot and up the back of the calf to about 2" above that bruise on my calf in the pics, and wrap it in those self-sticking non-adhesive bandages, pretty tightly. Immediately everything felt better, though now several hours later it is beginning to throb a bit, though I have banged it about some by accident here and there. :(

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The splint itself is interesting, as it is self-curing fiberglass, just add water. I assume it's some sort of cyanoacrylate-based resin, as that is what's in those sprayfoams that are moisture-cure, but the tech wrapping it had no idea. He just does the work and is apparently not curious. Took just a few minutes to harden completely, and was already stiffened even by the time he was done wrapping it.

No ETA for the healing process could be given, and no recommendations other than ice and elevation were given. No instruction on how often I should unwrap/rewrap it was given, either, so I am assuming only when I need to shower; I couldn't find anyone that had an answer while I was there (a few went to go ask but never came back before I was discharged). I got a prescription for Vicodin, but I can't afford to fill it, as they haven't processed my application for AHCCCS aid yet (dunno when they will, either). Hopefully the ER will work with me on the bill if (when) AHCCCS turns me down.

It did seem like every single person was surprised I had my own wheelchair already, even though I didn't normally need one. It's one sized for a teenager that I picked up on Freecycle a while back, intending to eventually use parts of it for another bike trailer or perhaps a tadpole trike's front wheels, but I had not yet done anything to. It fits me fine, though, and it's an older Quickie model that has easily-removable bits like the footrests, armrests, etc., and it has a seatbelt too.
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I would've reported in sooner, but as soon as I got home I had to first look for my crutches, which took some time to get to, not being able to just climb over the stuff in the backyard and instead having to first move it all piece by piece from in front of me to behind me, while sitting in teh wheelchair, then do the same in reverse to get back out of there with the crutches.

Then I had to undo what I did to CrazyBike2, so it will be rideable tomorrow for work, test it, fix and tighten, retest, try not to fall over to the right (cuz I can't stop a fall on that side, it hurts way too much to put that kinda weight on there!). But it worked perfectly, just like it used to before I messed with it. :roll:

In the process of getting it back in the door afterward, I slipped and fell on the steering tie rod and bent the point at which it connects to the handlebar-end steering tube, which then broke off the tab when I tried to straighten it. :( Had to wheel it back out front (so I could reweld it) without being able to steer it, basically sitting on the ground and dragging it by the front wheel, cuz I couldn't get the wheelchair out the door with the bike in the way, and coudln't stand even on crutches and still move the bike. This was around midnight, after about 20-30 minutes of riding, testing, adjusting, etc, and several hours of all the other stuff above, so I was already exhausted.

Rewelded it after much effort moving welder, helmet, clamps, tools, etc., all out front, moved all the stuff back inside so I could ride around testing it more, and since it didn't fall apart I have to call it good and stop for the night; I'm just way too exhausted. Hope it stays together for the work commute tomorrow. I didnt' even have any energy to do more than bolt on the non-lidded rightside cargo pod (since the vpower pack is still on the left side, and I can't get the batteries out to unbolt it from the bike on the bottom bolt).


I'll tell you what: I have way more respect for AussieJester being able to do all this stuff with essentially NO use of his legs, when I can barely do any of it with complete use of one leg and a little bit of the other!

Plus I really wish I had long ago implemented those stabilizers he's got on his, back when I thought about copying them originally. Riding would be so much easier right now if I had them.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 20 2011 2:29am

Other than getting on and off the bike, riding is easy enough even with the injury and splint/wrap. Getting on and off is a PITA, and resulted in a face full of dirt the first two tries today before heading to work, in avoiding getting my injured leg/foot in any situation that would hurt, or injure it worse, as the bike began to tip to the right too far, and I had to virtually dive to the left to stop that from happening, then ended up falling off it into the yard. Sorry no pics or video. :lol:

After that, I got better at it and didn't have that problem, but it's still a PITA and I REALLY need to work out stabilizers like AJ's. For the right side, at least. Mine will probably not be motorized, just manually lowered, but I *have* to do something about this problem, and it has to work while I am moving so it can't just be a kickstand sort of thing, it's gotta have a wheel or roller on it. No good ideas yet that I can implement (quite a few that I can't).

There is zero steering problems with it now; it's back to exactly like it was before. Of course, the suspension sucks on this crappy fork, but at least I won't get a death-shimmy. :roll:

Anyway, the work commute was pretty typical, except I went 3-4 MPH slower than normal for most of it, just gunshy I think. I'll get back to normal once I get used to the injury and stuff. WOrk itself sucked, trying to get around on crutches, pretty much just running register and sitting in a chair whenever no customers were needing help. My left knee (already bad) and hip both ache badly now that I'm home, after spending so much time the last few days with my full weight hopping around on just that one leg (plus whatever wieght I coudl manage on my arms).


Work commute data below (including part of the test rides last night, basically everything since charging it back up, after the race and test usage). Note that I'm using the VPower/CammyCC pack, with the NiMH left on the bike in case I blow taht up and still need to get home. :)

25m 28s trip time
5.460miles
23.1mph max
12.8mph avg

27.7Wh/mile
2.934Ah
150.94Wh
59.62Amax

56.4Vstart
52.8Vrest
47.4Vmin

There's no charge data yet, as I am going to run down the pack to BMS cutoff to make sure that works, if possible. Another reason to leave the NiMH on there, so I can still get home after that point. :lol:


ALso, in the race itself, I used about 2.3Ah on those nearly-two-laps, saw some peak amps for up to several seconds around 40-50A during hard acceleration from a very slow or stopped state, etc. I'm afraid I didn't remember to note down the race data before I reset the CA, cuz I'm stupid. :( Max speed was (I think) 27MPH, though, probably on the long straight after turn 13 the first time.

Maybe if LFP noticed the CA readings while he was on the bike, he can post here any he remembers?


Oh, I also have an idea for improving my crutches, whcih I will try first on a partial crutch I have (missing it's adjustable leg): putting a MTB rear shock with spring onto the bottom, replacing the MTB spring with one of the weaker yellow ones I have in a similar size. This would help absorb a lot fo the impact as I "walk" around with the crutches, which is currently tearing up my armpits and shoulders and back. Might be impractical and might cause other problems, but it's worth a shot.

Also considered is using the big black springs off the orange MX shocks, as a simple coilover for the extensible stem of the crutch, but leaving the latch of that stem turned 90 degrees so it cant engage a hole and lock into place, plus some retaining mechanism so the spring can't force it off the crutch either. :)

I expect both would be too bouncy, but I will be trying it anyway if I get teh chance. I figure someone must've thought of this before and it isn't a production thing now because it causes too many other problems. Still, you never know till you try. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by texaspyro » Apr 20 2011 8:30pm

Crutches with springs? Aren't those called pogo sticks? How about adding some LiPo to the crutches?

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 20 2011 11:20pm

If I had it, I'd add lipo to the wheelchair, along with a couple of 6x10 9C 26" wheels. :lol: Or just stick it in the powerchair instead of the SLA it has now.

Crossposted to the Vpower pack thread, too:

Oh, and something that didn't even occur to me until last night: I didn't have anything other than a fat bungee cord tightly bound over the top of the black ABS lid of this case holding the BMS and pack in it, besides the tightly packed dense foam around it, yet it did not shift around in there or spill out onto the track during the crash. This surprised me when I realized it last night, as by all rights the thing should've come out and splattered all over the asphalt. :shock: :oops:


I'll have the actual trip data from today later, as I'm already laying down after work trying to rest my poor left hip and knee and both shoulders/arms that are being so abused by having to keep all my wieght off the right leg, and forgot to write it all down before laying down. Not getting back up for a while now. ;)

Today it performed about the same as it did yesterday; I think I'm at about 5Ah used now. I'm off work tomorrow, so I might not go anywhere and just rest and fix some problems with the bike caused in the crash taht I didn't even notice until today (like the chain and derailer being messed up in a way that appears impossible but obviously isn't). Friday I work a short day, so I will probably use another couple Ah then, and again Sunday my next workday.


Pics of the chain/derailer problem:
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What appears to have happened is that during the crash, the derailer impacted the ground and was rotated upwards into the cassette's sprockets, and the pedal dragging the ground pulled the whole thing forward and pulled the derailer a full circle around so now the chain is wrapped around it.
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Some of the chain is twisted, too.
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Since I obviously haven't been pedalling it since then, I did not notice this. The only thing it affects is backing the bike up, and I only have to do that for a couple dozen feet from the front walkway back into the living room, each time I come home (which has been three times including today).

Nothing happened the first two, but today the chain jammed up in teh cranks due to the twisted part, in between two of the rings, and I had to lean the bike in the doorway (whcih it was now blocking the closing of), crawl off the bike and into the house to get some pliers and a screwdriver to pry the chain out of the rings (all the while Nana, Hachi, and Loki all wanting to jump all over me to say hi), so I could finish backing it into the house and close the front door to keep the dogs from going out.

I ended up having to take teh cargo pod off teh right side to even get to the derailer (whcih was also jammed with chain), so that I could get enough slack in the top of the chainline to get it out of the cranks' chainrings.
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I may have to take the rear wheel off to get the derailer rotated correctly, as I can't do it with teh cassette int eh way; I might be able to just unbolt the rear axle to get it off but not sure I can do it.

I will have to take the bent links out and replace them; good thing I bought that new chain tool on Friday; I'm gonna need it. :roll:

Oh, and I also need to take the rear wheel off to retrue it, cuz it was badly bent up during the trip there due to the angle the bike was leaning at in the trailer, I think, plus all the bouncing on the freeway from Phoenix to Tucson. That's another thing I can't do until I get someone over to help. Well, I can do the work but I can't get the bike back up from it's side where I'd have to have it to access things, unless I rig a system to lift it for me like block and tackle ro something.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 21 2011 4:36am

cumulative ride data from today's commute:
46m 19s trip time
10.22miles
25.8mph max
13.2mph avg

27.8Wh/mile
5.570Ah
283.3Wh
59.7Amax

52.8Vstart
52.7Vrest
46.8Vmin

I had something else I was going to post but I forgot what it was now. :( It feels important, too. :roll:

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 22 2011 5:54pm

I had this idea day before yesterday, but with everything going on I forgot to post it: use the wheelchair as the seat itself. I havne't worked out a strong enough quick release idea to be able to try it though. :(

Pics of the chair vs bike; I need to add a bottom panel or something to the chair to bolt it to the bike. The folding crossbar is a problem, though, as it will raise the seat at least a couple of inches or more the way it is now.
DSC04336.JPG
DSC04336.JPG (50.23 KiB) Viewed 2709 times
DSC04337.JPG
DSC04337.JPG (55.5 KiB) Viewed 2704 times
DSC04340.JPG
DSC04340.JPG (55.09 KiB) Viewed 2704 times
DSC04341.JPG
DSC04341.JPG (62.48 KiB) Viewed 2704 times

I have another wheelchair frame I might be able to use (the source of teh wheels on the Kennel Trailer), but I'd have to cut it's bottom bars off, and it's aluminum so I can't weld new ones on but would have to build a clamping system instead.

Anyway, it's just an idea right now. Still be eaiser to make a towhitch for the chair ATM....

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 23 2011 5:42am

cumulative ride data from today's commute:
1h 15m 31s trip time
16.34miles
25.8mph max
12.7mph avg

28.1Wh/mile
9.021Ah
455.7Wh
60.37Amax

52.7Vstart
51.6Vrest
46.3Vmin

Since the Vpower pack is now down about halfway in "expected" total power, I checked all the cell voltages at the balance wires:
Starting from most negative, with * representing the repaired string:
3.24V
3.24V
3.24V
3.25V*
3.21V
3.21V
3.25V

3.24V
3.24V
3.23V
3.22V
3.24V
3.24V
3.24V
3.22V
3.23V



Had to recharge the 12V lighting pack, as I was having trouble using turn signals on the way home, where they'd blink for a few times then just stick on or off, and were dimmer by a lot than usual. Don't have full data but was at 12.84Vrest when I started, and 14.08V full charge, with about 2.68Ah added to it. With only that much added, I think the problem might be a bad cell or something outside the pack.


Side note: I had to stop at the store on the way home, as I didn't make it before work or the night before afer work. I went in with the crutches, one in the shopping cart and leaning on the cart with my left arm, hopping on the crutch with the right. Door greeter ushered me over to the "power carts", which I hadn't thought about.

They're very easy to steer and control, but hardly anyone else shopping in there (including a couple of others on powercarts) paid any attention to me being there, even if I said "excuse me" or "pardon me"; I was wishing for an airhorn by the end of the very short shopping trip. :roll: But employees were all courteous and helpful.

Not as bad as my wheelchair shopping experience at the other store (close enough to my house that I wheeled myself up there in the morning when it was still cooler, just to see how hard it would be (very)). At that store, I actually had other shoppers RUN INTO ME, then mumble "sorry didn't see you" while actively looking away from me as if I were a bit of slime mold or something.

How they could not see me when I was wearing bright orange jogging pants, dayglo orange shirt, and a bright pink "camo" backpack on the back of the chair, I don't know. Some of the employees were a bit helpful, but most of them looked away when I came anywhere near them, or found something to do elsewhere.

I've seen this happen to others in wheelchairs and thought it very rude, but even on a bike on the road I've never experienced the crappy side of humanity quite like this before. :(

Being on crutches I get lots of people trying to help, asking if I'm ok, etc, but being in a wheelchair I get ignored or actively pretending I don't exist, or even glared at like some evil creature. :roll:

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by docnjoj » Apr 23 2011 12:29pm

Hey AW
I had this experience also when my knees were so bad that I had to use the little power carts. As a "cripple" you are invisible. I have a woman on her cell phone literally crash into me and then give me the "look of death" when I smiled ather and said "Those cell phones will get you every time"! This is where the true meaning of the term "Invalid" comes from!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 25 2011 12:17am

Yeah, that's pretty much how it seems to work. :(

Finally hit LVC on the Vpower pack, almost home (about 1/2 mile to go). Wrote down the following from the CA before swapping over to the NiMH pack and finishing the trip home:

1h 31m 10s trip time
20.36miles
25.8mph max
13.4mph avg

28.5Wh/mile
11.52Ah
575.65Wh
62.64Amax

52.7Vstart
46.8Vrest
41.3Vmin


Since it's a cell-level LVC, then after I got home and fed dogs and whatnot, I swapped back from NiMH to Vpower, then left the bike on but not doing anything until it cut out again, so I coudl go back and verify the actual lowest values.

Pack voltage (after turning the bike off and waiting a minute, then back on) was 47.1V rapidly dropping over about 15 seconds to 46.5V, where the BMS cut power.

Cell voltages, from - to + just like before, with the repaired string marked with *:
3.12
3.08
3.16
3.17*
2.15 ----
2.19 ----
3.18
3.12
3.13
2.98 --
2.72 ---
3.12
3.11
3.11
2.67 ---
3.09

The ones with ---- are really low, presumably the ones causing LVC trigger (whcih I guess is 2.0-2.1V; don't know for sure).

Mark of --- isn't quite as bad, then -- is a bit better, but all of these cell groups probably have either some bad cells (or weak cells) or broken/damaged tab welds.

However, it's not too bad for a 2-year+ old pack that's been apart and fixed, and is missing a cell in the fourth-up string. :)

I guess I'll need to open it up and check out the other striings to see what's going on there.

For now, it's charging back up to full, so I can use it for my work commute the next two days. Wed if there is time I'll take a look at the strings, then two more workdays and Sat will be next free day.


I'm pondering if I might be able to use the Venom charger here:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 04&start=0
as just a cell monitor to log the voltages of 8s sections while under load, via USB, to a PC. I haven't read it's instructions yet so I don't know if it will do it or not, but if it will it gives me a way to test this.

I could wire up a test tap to one 8s section at a time, hooked up to the Venom just running off my 12V NiMH lighting pack. Laptop can go in the cargo pod, strapped down and padded, to realtime log the data of a ride.

Of course, it'll be my luck that it only works if it's actively charging or discharging the cells via the Venom, which I don't want, but hey, it's a thought. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 25 2011 2:23am

SOmething I didn't think to calculate until I was replying to this thread:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 88#p394788
was the power capability of things with the VPower pack vs the NiMH.

During the race (if I hadn't crashed in the heat first), I could've get about 3.5KW peaks out of the system if I hooked up the NiMH and the Vpower in series as planned; with 24V 13Ah x2P and 48V18Ah x1P, with the 24V as perhaps 22-24V sagging (guesstimate, based on ride data vs guess about paralleling) and 48V as about 47V sagging (based on ride data), and peak currents of 62A+ (based on ride data).

That'd be 69V during sag, at 62A, for perhaps 4.2KW, with optimimistically-swagged NiMH data. Even with just the Vpower it'd be about 3KW peak, with real ride data.

Since I don't push it that hard during street riding, it's probably more like 2.5KW peaks, though it might be closer to 3KW when trying to start from a total dead stop at a traffic light, since I have to go as hard as I can to get out of the way of anyone behind me, and right now I can't pedal to help.

So I guess in theory it is a good thing I have the ventilated covers on the 9C right now; on the NiMH I don't think I ever got anywhere near these power levels, as it sagged more with lower currents.

With 48V NiMH, IIRC (without digging thru previous pages of data), it'd be around 40A peak currents, sagging down to 45V or less, making it about 2KW peaks, and that for only moments (much less than a few seconds probably).

I think I really need to wire up the serial output of the CA and setup the laptop to record the data stream, because I can't really keep my eye on the watts during the ride, as I need the speedo to keep from going too fast in traffic (easy to forget and overdo the throttle), and I can't recall a way to show speed and watts at the same time (but I will have to recheck).

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by BLUESTREAK » Apr 25 2011 9:47pm

HI AMBER: I am suprised that you havent hooked those doges up to the wheelchair and make them earn their keep. Get better. JUST A FRIEND. :lol: :lol:

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Apr 25 2011 11:40pm

I actually have held onto Nana's collar and had her pull me around the backyard, with her to the left side of the chair. :) I tried it with Hachi but she just gets all rambunctious and bounds around so I can't hold on. None of the others woudl even try, they just sit down and wiggle. :lol: Nana just kept plodding on, stopping to munch grass every so often.


Charging data:
Vpower (LS-CA):
46.5Vstart
59.5Vfinish (w/charger just disconnected)
4.0Ap
238Wp
818.53Wh
15.05Ah

This is for leaving it on the charger to balance, too, so I'm sure not nearly taht much energy actually is put back into the pack. Guesstimate of 18 hours on charger? Cant'r emember what time I put it on last night, but I took it off at 14:30 today.


First node of commuting data, since I'm gonna run it down again to see how consistent it is:
19m 0s trip time
4.521miles
22.3mph max
14.2mph avg

31.1Wh/mile
2.711Ah
138.5Wh
62.26Amax

59.5Vstart
53Vrest
47.7Vmin

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