Pikes Peak Race--Entering?

[Hillhater]

Just to clarify a point,. can spare batteries be swapped out at any point along the route ?
Or do all batteries have to be carried the whole distance ?
I am sure the "peddlers" will "refuel" at various points, and i thought i read some where that spare batteries were used last time also.

[MikeFairbanks]

Just to clarify a point,. can spare batteries be swapped out at any point along the route ?
Or do all batteries have to be carried the whole distance ?
I am sure the "peddlers" will "refuel" at various points, and i thought i read some where that spare batteries were used last time also.

And therein lies the way to win: Be in pedaling shape and use the motor for supplemental power.

A motorcycle could beat all those bikes.

So what are the parameters of the whole thing?

To me, the biggest challenge is pedaling. Don't get me wrong: I love E-bikes, but it's akin to Tow-in surfing. Sure, it's fun, but the true watermen are the ones who paddle into big waves rather than getting towed in by waverunners.

That said, lycra is ugly and should be banned from the first four planets.

[Hillhater]

.... I love E-bikes, but it's akin to Tow-in surfing. Sure, it's fun, but the true watermen are the ones who paddle into big waves rather than getting towed in by waverunners..

..yes but the "long boarders" still believe they are the only true surfers.
There will always be change, ..and there will always be resistance to it !
..each to their own preference, and live in harmony !

[mabman]

That said, lycra is ugly and should be banned from the first four planets.

You are joking right?

gaggioli2.jpg (60.44 KiB) Viewed 300 times

[Green Machine]

wow i cant believe it ....it even looks unappealing on her...would be a great looking woman if she wasnt in lycra...

Starting to see what you guys mean....

[dogman]

Lycra ugly? Obviously you haven't been to the womens pro 1 division bicycle races. Pack of dang godesses. Don't wear your lycra to watch the race, you need nice baggy cargo pants.

[Evoforce]

Aaaahahahaaaahaahaaaaaaaaa! Dogman you cracked me up.

[Hillhater]

Just to clarify a point,. can spare batteries be swapped out at any point along the route ?
Or do all batteries have to be carried the whole distance ?

so does anyone know if you are allowed to swap batteries along the route ? ... fairly simple & important question i thought ?

[Green Machine]

Hillhater,

My guess this would be considered uncool...like an ethical infringement....although there is no specific rule against it.

To do it you would have to have someone along the route to carry your battery for you...although there is no rule against this if someone saw it they might complain...

The other option would be to go stealth and hide batteries along the route the night before...but obviously you would be guilty of a littering infraction or something.

This is one of those things that you would probably get away with...but if other riders saw you they would think uncool. If you were to win the race and other electrics saw you do this you can bet there would be some bitching....especially over at the optigroup which tends to get pretty grumpy about sphere antics.


Its obvious the organizers dont have a clue about electrics and therefore do not have any rules specifically for electrics...so it seems like you would have to abide by bicycle etiquette and be self contained.

I think there should obv be a rule against this tactic and i would advise you not to do it...its against the spirit of an endurance like race which the pikes peak climb is. I think people here would even complain if you won the race and used this tactic. I know i would.

[remf]

Hillhater,

My guess this would be considered uncool...like an ethical infringement....although there is no specific rule against it.

To do it you would have to have someone along the route to carry your battery for you...although there is no rule against this if someone saw it they might complain...

The other option would be to go stealth and hide batteries along the route the night before...but obviously you would be guilty of a littering infraction or something.

This is one of those things that you would probably get away with...but if other riders saw you they would think uncool. If you were to win the race and other electrics saw you do this you can bet there would be some bitching....especially over at the optigroup which tends to get pretty grumpy about sphere antics.

Its obvious the organizers dont have a clue about electrics and therefore do not have any rules specifically for electrics...so it seems like you would have to abide by bicycle etiquette and be self contained.

I think there should obv be a rule against this tactic and i would advise you not to do it...its against the spirit of an endurance like race which the pikes peak climb is. I think people here would even complain if you won the race and used this tactic. I know i would.

Aye wholeheartedly agree. Not in the spirit of the ride...that's more for the Race to the Clouds next month.

And here I was thinking you'd be right into cooking up some hot-swap tactics....by any means necessary etc.

[Hillhater]

OK, but there is no limit on how many kWhr you can pack, carry, or tow along ?.
PS: .. i have NO probability of being there,..just checking as i seem to recall some comment about people using "extra" battery packs last year.

[John in CR]

If I wanted to be unfair I'd just let one of my kids be the pilot. Battery stops won't win anything, because eg an additional 20lbs of batteries only cost about 50 watts at 30mph up the average grade of the course, so a 50wh gain to stop and swap would be a serious race mistake. You've got both the time lost plus the energy waste and heat risk of accelerating from zero again. Spend your time on aero improvements along with motor and controller cooling. Forget trying to figure out how to hotswap your pack, and figure out how to fit a smaller wheel on your motor. Then increase voltage to get back to your speed target for more efficient and cooler running at the same speed.

[liveforphysics]

Yep, that's pure gold advise John.

Low turn count motor. Tiny tire (like a small scooter tire) mounted right on the spoke flange.
Vented motor, little copper line aimed to dribble water into the motor.
I would do maybe 5kw-hr of Lipo.

[MadScientist]

My guess [swapping batteries] would be considered uncool...like an ethical infringement....although there is no specific rule against it.

To each his own. I think swapping packs is just dandy as long as you carry the spare along with you. At least one ebike last year swapped packs somewhere close to the top. I don't know about the Optibikes.

Its obvious the organizers dont have a clue about electrics and therefore do not have any rules specifically for electrics...so it seems like you would have to abide by bicycle etiquette and be self contained.

The organizers have made it clear that motor vehicles are not allowed on the course. If your bike meets Colorado's definition of a low power electric assist bicycle it is OK, if it obviously does not then you might have trouble. My guess is that fighting with overzealous ebikers is the last thing the organizers want. If we all play nice, we can all have fun.

That said, here's the Colorado Springs Police page on Scooters, Pocket Bikes, Mopeds and More. Note their suggestion to "Keep a copy of the identifying paperwork for your motorized vehicle with the vehicle. That way, if there is any question as to what classification of vehicle is you will have the supporting paperwork." Good luck sorting out your monster ebike if the police become involved.

its against the spirit of an endurance like race which the pikes peak climb is.

One more time: The Assault on the Peak is a fun ride with some friendly competition. It is not a race. In a real race there would be classes with enforced power and/or energy limits.

[Green Machine]

Mad Science Ken,

the question hill hater had was obv about "hot swapping" with batteries on the roadside so you dont have to carry as much weight. I thought that was obvious?

And regarding your insistence that this is just a ride....that is just your opinion and you have made that clear and dont have to keep pushing it. Its obvious that everyone else including optibike considers it a race...why are you the only one calling it a fun ride? Remember what craig from opti said "When the green flag drops the bs stops" and "we are not losing this race in our own backyard". Read the OP Nimbuzz issue the challenge on the very first post of this thread....you dont issue a challenge to a fun ride.

And if motor vehicles are not allowed then that means the opti is not allowed. One more time the opti is not a legal electric bicycle by federal standards. It goes over 20mph without pedal assisting.

I think its obvious that you have your own agenda...you have admitted in PM you are backing a bike to attend the event...and i am sure your not sponsoring a bike so the rider can enjoy the fresh rocky mountain air while listening to john denver on his ipod while juicing himself up the hill.

I know you were hoping to have a RACE like last year with just a couple of threatless bmc's and 2 optis to "ride" against but their is no point in continuing to snivel...you have real competition now...

You should have stayed over at the opti groups mad science ken....because now...now....

The ES dogs will be upon you.

[Green Machine]

Colorado ebike law:

Optibike 32mph 850w = illegal

Notice boulder...home of the optibike has extra strick restrictions.

Ebike definition in Colorado follows the HR 727 National Law: 20 mph (30 km/h) e-power and 750 W (1 hp) max, 2 or 3 wheels, pedals that work. Legal low-powered ebikes are allowed on roads and bike lanes unless the city or county has passed laws to the contrary (Boulder city bans ebikes over 400 W from bike lanes and all ebikes from bike paths)—none (except Boulder city) have to date. Bicycles and Ebikes are disallowed on certain high speed highways and all Interstates unless signed as "Allowed" in certain rural Interstate stretches where the Interstate is the ONLY means of travel.[39] Unless the locality has specifically passed laws making ebikes illegal on sidewalks or trails, Ebikes are legal. However most business and shopping districts do not allow riding bikes or ebikes on sidewalks. Boulder and a few other cities specifically dis-allow ebikes on their trail systems through legal statute.

[liveforphysics]

It's an ebike if you can ride it past a cop and not get stopped.

Optibike passes that test fine.

[Green Machine]

Some quick facts on this race, i did talk to the organizer:

No rules or regulations on battery packs, wattage, motors, etc.

This year the ebikers will start 10 minutes early from the rest of the pack.....this is because of complaints from roadbikers that certain racers were drafting behind the opti guys at the start of the race last year. Why would road bikers bitch about drafting on a fun ride?

You ride through town with a police motorcycle escort until you get to the entrance of the pikes peak road....at that point the riders are off..without police escort...on a closed road....a race to the top. The electrics will be all by themselves this year...no road bikers to pass.

HOw do we know its a race?

Look at finish times of last year posted. And why have timing stations if its not a race?

And this is just a race to the top.....it is a fun ride to the bottom. You got that mad science Ken.....Race to the top...fun ride to the bottom....but I bet you already knew that.

[MadScientist]

I think its obvious that you have your own agenda...you have admitted in PM you are backing a bike to attend the event...and i am sure your not sponsoring a bike so the rider can enjoy the fresh rocky mountain air while listening to john denver on his ipod while juicing himself up the hill.

Rats, I've been found out. Luckily, I possess l33t sk1llz and have already planted posts in this very forum, retroactively making it look like I announced the conspiracy, er, I mean support for Josh, last Wednesday. But it goes deeper than that. Are you ready to take the red pill, my friend? Ronz, the man behind the motor in question, is an Optibike owner [cue the melodramatic music] like myself! And, wait for it, he bought me lunch once when he was visiting Colorado! Not only that, but you, yes you ,my confused friend, are part of the plot. Admit it - you purchased an Optibike! In fact, now that I look back on the chain of events, I see that my sponsorship on this ride was your idea in the first place. How very, very, clever. Mr greenmoriarty.

And to think I almost let you pin it on me.

[remf]

Some quick facts on this race, i did talk to the organizer:

No rules or regulations on battery packs, wattage, motors, etc.

This year the ebikers will start 10 minutes early from the rest of the pack.....this is because of complaints from roadbikers that certain racers were drafting behind the opti guys at the start of the race last year. Why would road bikers bitch about drafting on a fun ride?

You ride through town with a police motorcycle escort until you get to the entrance of the pikes peak road....at that point the riders are off..without police escort...on a closed road....a race to the top. The electrics will be all by themselves this year...no road bikers to pass.

HOw do we know its a race?

Look at finish times of last year posted. And why have timing stations if its not a race?

And this is just a race to the top.....it is a fun ride to the bottom. You got that mad science Ken.....Race to the top...fun ride to the bottom....but I bet you already knew that.

He who asks questions gets answers. Thank you for the enlightening post.

[dogman]

If you can ride it past the cops and not get noticed it's a bike. How true. Have to hold back on those 50 mph wheelies then eh?

[Green Machine]

So is anyone planning on going to pikes peak?

I might be trucking up from the bay area and may be looking for some car poolers.

Anyone gong up from san francisco bay area (20 hour drive)?

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

So is anyone planning on going to pikes peak?

ummmmm... i guess not!

http://groups.google.com/group/optibike-owners-group/browse_thread/thread/e5bbb00bb9bd774c#

Team optibike is on the top of pikes peak, claiming first-7th places.
Total domination.

Introducing the new optibike 1100r. A 48V HILL CLIMBING MONSTER.

JOHN s. (Lowco2) was in first place at 1:07:00, 39 min

hill climbing 'monster'....
do you suppose that's a subconscious/subliminal freudian slip/tip o' da hat to chessmonster perhaps?
because congrats are in order to you greenchessmachine....
for your impact on advancing the revolution & changing the course of EV history.

had it not been for your organizing hill-climb events that laid the truth bare humiliating optibike...
sticking to your gunz both here & the optibike forums, enduring the flamethrower sessions over your relentless rants cuz you knew to be right...
which in turn led to the luncheon meeting with marketing director craig taber...
wherein you provided him the benefit of your experience selling ebikes & marketing consultation... all for freee!

well sir, had it not been for your direct actions along with bmxED & USVdennis delivering lethal body blows to craiggerz ego...
it's without a shadow of doubt there would be no optibike 1100r today without yooze guize well placed hirachi upside optibutt in getting them to move on this.

oh, i'm certain craigger will refute that by claiming it's been in the works all along...
which i've no doubt that's true, you had even speculated as much.
no, at your meeting back in april craig wouldn't have been so adamant that they had no immediate plans on releasing an overvolt opti hiding behind liability FUD.
unless of course that was all pure overvolt BS, (he is a marketing guy afterall!).

i would like to say quickly that i was right in my guess that the leaders of opti have 40mph speed machines in their garages..and have had them way back when we were still riding zappies. They just cant release them to the public although they would like too. The liability is simply too great.

so what happened to suddenly miraculously sweep away all those issues that prevented a 40 mph optibike being released which appears to be no problemo now whatsoever????
chessmonster/Green Machine happened, that's hoo!!
i hope craig has the nards to give credit where it's due for your role in stubbornly prodding the 1100r out of its boulder cavern into the light of day.
to maintain otherwise would be to admit he's full of it & nothing that comes out of his mouth is to be believed.



GM, sorry to hear about the setback in getting your own optikiller to the peak.
looking on bright side, you got them to blink & play their trump card.
and all it took was a widdle head-fake.
now that you know what to gun for there'll be no surprises next year when you "beat" him like a rented mule.

here's your consolation prize, all the proof you need that you really stuck in his craw & still weigh heavily on his mind even today.
sour grapes taste the sweetest, don't they?

Where were all the big talkers???

Still gloating in california about "beating" an optibike up a 100yd hill

[kfong]

Just caught the news, opti bike took 1-7th place. Only 3 other ebikes showed that were not opti, was that right? Disappointing turnout. I wonder how they faired and what setup they used. I knew it was a tough challenge, having climbed it, but I had hope more would take on the challenge. Anyone have a more detailed link? Nice to see opti is now putting out a higher watt version. I suspect it's the same bike, just higher voltage. They already had personal soupped up versions last year, but seem to be now releasing them with signed waivers to get around the imposed federal limits. Looks like a mid drives setup with proper gearing would be needed to take on the opti. Good that they covered any chance of competition with a higher watt bike. That's what I would have done.

[John in CR]

ES members within a few hundred miles should be ashamed. There's always next year. Maybe Opti will make a change worthy of competing against, and I'll send a bike. I'm officially looking for a 175lb or less rider for the 2012 event.