RVD's first ebike (TidalForce S-750, 9C 2807, etc.)

[oatnet]

Coming along Nicely!

I would have lent you the freewheel removal tool

-JD

[RVD]

Coming along Nicely!

I would have lent you the freewheel removal tool

-JD

ah, where were you last week? anyway, it actually doesn't matter because the freewheel that i got from LBS didn't fit right anyway. the one that came in from e-bikekit threads on perfectly and doesn't stick. so even if i were to remove the old one, i didn't have a new one to put on.

[RVD]

Here are some updated pictures.


As you can see here, the wires are routed through the frame. There are 2 extra wires in the frame that aren't hooked up to anything. These are for the brake regen wires that I am not using. I will probably just not use these since I plan to upgrade my brakes to disc brakes.

CycleAnalyst is on the bar.

kickstand is nice and heavy duty. It does come in handy to work on the bike. I don't need to hoist the bike up on my bike stand for most tasks.

bike is powered by a 9c 2807 direct drive rear hub motor. It seems powerful enough so far.

For power, I am running lipo. Each pannier can hold 4 lipo batteries. Lipos are stored in a plastic housing that I made and is fairly well padded. Each pannier has 4 6s 5000 mah batteries in parallel so it is a 6s4p pack per pannier. There is a black wire connecting the panniers together. This is used to hook up the negative from the right pannier to the positive of the left pannier. You can also see the battery leads here as the red comes from the right pannier and the black comes up from the left pannier. This results in 12s4p.



This is a picture of the drive side of the bike. I didn't install the torque arm yet but it sort of shows where I plan to put it.

The CycleAnalyst speed sensor is installed on the front fork.

The top pannier is where I store the controller so it's well hidden when not in use. When it is in use, I just take it out and stick it into a pouch on the pannier. It's well protected there and there is no danger of it falling out (even on a bump, etc.).



The controller in the rear pouch. I may move it over to the metal bracket that connects the rack to the seat post.

To Do:
1) install disc brakes
2) install torque arm
3) install LVC in each pannier

Below are some more pictures with some details...

[ambroseliao]

Looking good.

I see you have different tires front & back. Why?

Also, what specific model mare those Topeak panniers? They look very roomy.

Ambrose

[chroot]

Excellent! Look awesome, and I recommend you move controller outside to allow cooling coming to cool down on the mosfts.

[RVD]

Looking good.

I see you have different tires front & back. Why?

Also, what specific model mare those Topeak panniers? They look very roomy.

Ambrose

It is mainly because I was bring cheap. I already had the front tire as a spare at home. For the rear I bought a big apple tire.

the panniers are topeak mtx trunk bag dxp with rigid molded panels. The rack is atopeak super tourist tubular bike trunk rack dx for disc brakes with side panels. The rack is around $35 and the panniers are around $75.

[Metallover]

22mph sounds good. I weigh less than 150 pounds and I topped out at about 25mph with a 9c, 12fet controller at stock settings, and 12s Turnigy lipo.

I say you should get one more lipo from the usa warehouse and bump it up to 18s 15Ah. You'll have to start worrying about cooling, so plan to drill some holes or limit the amps with the software.

18s gets me mid 30s, and I can get 40mph on the flats if I bump it up to 120% throttle.

Good luck!

[RVD]

I am almost ready to commute with this bike. I plan to start commuting on Wednesday baring any unforeseen issues that pop up. I was actually going to start tomorrow but I have a dinner meeting after work that I need to attend.

I conducted a couple of range tests today and yesterday to measure how much range I will need to get to work.

I mapped out my ride here: http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/35710136 - as you can see it's mostly a flat ride (elevation goes up to 80 feet) with a little bit of elevation at the end but hardly noticeable. Mile total says 15.86 miles.

I believe a 12s2p lipo setup will be fine for a one way commute. I plan to store an extra meanwell power supply at work and bring my charger with me in my panniers. However, to be safe, I am going to go with a 12s3p setup for now for extra range. I also have extra lipos so I can go up to 12s4p if I really want to.

Yesterday, I conducted my first range test. I ran on 12s3p. However, my test was not all that scientific. I did a little bit of test riding on my street beforehand, let my friend test it out a little bit on my block, etc. I then reset the CA and went out for my ride. There was a lot of head wind and conditions were not very good. In the end, my CA reported 9.893 miles traveled, a start of 49.2v and ended at 46.6 v. 4.136ah used. My charger (hyperion 1420i) reported 5326mah charged. I attribute the difference to the test riding that I did earlier before the ride, etc. Like I said, it was not very scientific. However, if I extrapolate my ~10 mile ride, I feel good that 15ah is more than enough capacity to handle my 16 mile commute.

Today, I conducted my second range test. I ran on 12s3p again. This time my test was more scientific. I was careful not to ride or use any battery before my test. I charged to 85% TCS which results in cells balanced at roughly 4.11-4.12 volts. I started at 49.2v. This time I rode 16.22 miles and ended at 45.8v. 6.027ah used. After my ride, I charged again and my charger reported 6030mah charged. I rode about 1/2 way to work (the same route) and rode back home. The 2nd half of my route is not too much different from the 1st half. Unfortunately today is Memorial Day which means everyone comes to the beach so there was a ton of congestion on the bike trail, etc. I expect my time to be much faster but in terms of battery usage, hopefully not too far off.

I feel good that my 12s3p setup will be more than ample to get to me to work.

I took a video of the first 30 minutes of my ride: http://www.vimeo.com/24448320 - as you can see, I live only a few blocks from the beach and the beach bike trail. However, it was really crowded and I ran at speed 2 (out of 3). I maxed out mostly at 22mph although I did go WOT on speed 3 at the end which maxed out at around 28mph and felt like flying.

I'm a little nervous about how much power I can be drawing from the motor and controller. Is it pretty safe to ride at 22mph drawing about 10-15 amps and 800 watts continuously? I feel a bit nervous since I'm still in testing mode so I usually do that for about 30 seconds, let off to let things cool, then go back again, etc.

I should take some updated pictures. I installed my torque arm (sorta, it's a ghetto install job), added a bell, added a horn (air horn), installed hydraulic front disc brakes, changed my front tire to be more slick, added a precharge resistor, cleaned up wiring a bit, installed the controller for better air cooling, installed my brooks saddle from my other bike, etc.

[ambroseliao]

Did you commute with your new ride today? How did it go?

[RVD]

Did you commute with your new ride today? How did it go?

Yes! It was great. I have done this commuting distance many times in the past but always showed up in the office really hot and sweaty. My route is 16 miles to work. My previous job was also 16 miles. Both jobs share the exact same route for the first 10 miles. The last 6 miles are slightly different but my new route is nicer because there are no traffic lights or cars while my old route didn't have many but it still took me through some slightly busy streets.

On my road bike, I would usually do this distance in 1:05 - 1:10. Today on my ebike, it took me 45 minutes! Of course I also got to work cool as a cucumber.

My speed was generally in the 20-25mph range. There were a few times when I took it up to 30 mph but I am riding on a bike trail so there are other bikes, joggers, etc. I actually think I should slow it down a bit. There was one time when a lady started walking onto the path without looking so I honked my horn...my horn is super loud so everyone turned around. I'll probably use my little bell next time.

I took a quick video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXzku6Sbxm8

Anyway...it's awesome!

[ambroseliao]

Congrats! You certainly have some nice scenery to ride by. The palm trees and the beach look so cool.

I liked the guy walking his dog at about 6 minutes in saying, "Slow it down!"

You didn't look like you were going that fast!

Ambrose

[RVD]

lol yeah. If you go about 2/3 of the way through you can hear my loud airhorn. i sort of feel bad about that though.

i wasn't going that fast...about 20-22 mph most of the time. but you have to realize that this is the beach so most people are riding their beach cruisers 8-10 mph so when i go by at 20, i'm flying.

of course there is also some lycra around as well that go 20+ mph and i remember when i would ride my road bike i would get the same kind of comments from people to slow down.

[oatnet]

I liked the guy walking his dog at about 6 minutes in saying, "Slow it down!" You didn't look like you were going that fast!

That is because at that moment he was going by Pier Ave in Hermosa Beach, in an area where you have to walk your bike when it is crowded (they turn on red flashing lights), and there is an 8mph speed limit otherwise I've made it a point to slow down to inconspicious speeds at the Hermosa and Manhattan Beach piers, so that I don't ruin the route for other ebikers. If the cops start getting reports of speeding ebikes, they'll start cracking down on us like they did with the electric skateboard folks last year.

And if you thought you got a lot of "slow down" comments on your road bike, wait til people figure out you are "Cheating"... Your daily commute route is one of my adventure rides, hats off to you for doing it every day. I've wondered for years how much faster it would be to commute to Santa Monica by ebike - but on windy days with dunes covering the path it could be a challange.

-JD

[Ykick]

I grabbed this short clip the other day and thought it helped demonstrate how we must learn to coexist with pedal bikes and pedestrians.



When in doubt if everything's gonna fit experience teaches - just slow down, smile and be extremely courteous. It's not like we can't crank it right back up when the coast is clear.

Someday soon IMO, eBikes will face a serious battle of public opinion and sentiment and how we ride now will affect how we'll be able to ride in the future.

[oatnet]

I completely agree, and over the years I have been painfully aware of the ambassador role. In '07, on my daily 6 mile beachfront cruise I'd have 3-4 people ask about my ebike. They were usually impressed when I told them it would do 45mph, less so if I passed them on the beach path at that speed. Nowadays, even riding a giant-hubs obviously-electrified E+ or Tidalforce, maybe 1 ride in 3 will someone ask about it. I take this to mean we have entered the public consciousness on some level, and how we behave now will dictate how we are regulated.

Of course, when riding a stealthy bike like my recent enduro comp build, nobody asks because nobody knows.

Our beach path has a pedestrian lane, and two wide bike lanes marked every 50' with a 3' picture of a bike over the words "BIKES ONLY". As a result of this clear, bright signage (with pictures), about 70% of ped traffic walks in your bike lane with their backs to you, oblivious to approaching traffic. The other 30%, well they walk straight at you, glaring as if you were in THEIR lane. Often, the pedestrian lane is the only clear way past the pedestrians.

However, my course favorite is the Baby Carriage Gang - an evolving group of women who walk the path 6-7 abreast (nursing mom pun intended), completely obstructing both sides of the bike path (and sometimes even <gasp!> the ped lane) forcing bikes and peds alike to be the obstacles that have to squeeze through their ranks. When I see them, I stop sideways @50' ahead of them, claiming the width of the bike lane, and wait for THEM to go around me. So much for the ambassador role, but I don't recognize their right to be special.

-JD

[RVD]

Yes, I will embrace my new ambassador role and take it easy. I took it easy this morning. I rode slower whenever there were people around and when nobody was around, I gunned it (which to me means 30mph...unlike you crazy folks going 40mph+).

In the video from a couple of days ago, the 6:00 mark is funny and the 35:00 mark has my air horn going off. i feel bad about the air horn so i won't use it anymore. I'll just use my bell from now on and reserve the air horn for cars only.

Long video from this morning. I am still playing around with the angle. I also used my flip mino HD instead of my crappy P&S so the quality is a little better. However, there is some "squeaks" that keep happening when I accelerate. Maybe it's the torque arms? Once I get moving, it's usually ok but when I go from slow to fast, I hear a squeak. It's not the disc brake (that squeaks too).

At the 26:20 mark you can see / hear a gas powered bike riding opposite from me.



If you want to watch the fast version with no sound:



I actually like this route to Culver City (my new job) more than my previous route to Santa Monica (3rd st). The old route was a bit more scenic on a regular bike since I rode through Venice Beach but on a ebike, it would be kind of annoying because there are so many people around.

[RVD]

Some updated pics:











From left to right:

Gear twist
AirZound air horn (it's really loud)
camera mount
Garmin 705 bike computer
CycleAnalyst
Bell
Gear twist
3 speed switch
half twist throttle

As you can see from the larger pictures, the wires all go through the frame. The controller is mounted on the rear rack for air cooling. Batteries are stored in the panniers. The side panniers are pretty much full of batteries so there is almost no space in there but the top pannier has space for my charger (I bring it to work for charging and I have an extra power supply at work), cell phone, wallet, keys, garage door opener, extra tube, wrench, hex keys, battery medic, etc.

Batteries are stored in plastic cases with padding and are fairly well protected in case of a fall. Batteries will not get punctured, etc.

[ambroseliao]

It's looking terrific. That saddle looks a bit skimpy to me though unless you're gluteal muscles are firm I love my Cane Creek Thudbuster which helps smooth out the bumps.

You've probably mentioned this, but the right side of your handlebar looks odd. How do you get to the bell without moving your hand?!?!?

I spent last weekend rerouting all the wires on my S-750 (including the brake line and the derailleur cables) through the frame which gives it a much cleaner look. I need to clean up the cables around the controller though. The excess lengths of wire from the controls up front are just bundled up and velcroed together right now. I will eventually trim them down to the right lengths.

Ambrose

[RVD]

Yes I struggled with the bell on the right. Unfortunately the right twist shifter for gears will not move any more to the left (the handlbars get a little thicker). I tried mounting the bell on the right where the brakes are but it didn't fit right. I'll play around a little more and may end up having to build something using a hose clamp or something.

I also replaced my front tire with a smoother tire. My old knobby tire was just too old so it started to crack, etc.

[oatnet]

At the 26:20 mark you can see / hear a gas powered bike riding opposite from me.

Yeah, there are a couple of guys on gas powered bikes that I see riding the surfline at super-low tides, 30-40mph and loud. I hope they don't ruin it for the rest of us.

OTOH It inspired me to try riding the surfline. The sand is just hard enough to ride at the edge of the wet patch, and level enough at low tide to use it. My eBike gets a bit squirmy in loose spots, but it is a hoot.

Your build looks good!

How is your hand comfort on those regular long rides, any numbness?
For your tires, have you tried Maxxis Hookworms?

-JD

[RVD]

I do get some hand numbness after about 25 minutes or so. I'm sort of used to it in some ways because I get it when I ride my road bike after about an hour (and I sometimes ride for 3-4 hours on my road bike).

I attribute it more to handlebar + saddle position though so I have been making adjustments in the hopes that it will help. I also wasn't using the front shocks much but loosened them as well to help.

[RVD]

btw, I haven't tried Maxxis hookworms. I saw them on el_steak's bike though and they look good. Maybe I'll try those next time around when it's time to change tires.

[ambroseliao]

I do get some hand numbness after about 25 minutes or so. I'm sort of used to it in some ways because I get it when I ride my road bike after about an hour (and I sometimes ride for 3-4 hours on my road bike).

Have you tried the Ergon grip? They spread the pressure out so you can rest on your palms instead on your wrists.

Ambrose

[icecube57]

Im trying to figure out why did you choose panniers. My trunk bag can hold 12 Lipo and looks alot neater. I tried panniers when I had the heavy Thunderskies but when I switched to lipo.. they were so compact that a trunk bag was a perfect. I have my controller under my rack. I ran alot of my wires into cat5 cable through the frame to reduce the wire count.

[RVD]

I chose panniers in my case because I wanted to get the weight lowered towards the axle. I also wanted the option to have extra space to take stuff to/from work.

I have 6 lipos to carry (12s3p for 16 miles) and at least the way that I have them organized, they don't fit in just the top trunk. I might be able to get them to fit and I'll try riding it that way but I'm just afraid that the weight will be too high in the back. But I won't knock it till I try it...