Cuda-E - 4000 watt Shumaker drive upgrade

[Thud]

Warren,
look in your yellow pages for: Applied industrial (formerly detroit ball bearing) or just under bearings..their everywhere.
I use VXB for most of the stuff i buy in quatities of 10 or more.

[www.recumbents.com]

Hmm. These look okay.
http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/servl ... all/Detail

Are all 3/8" ID bearings ABEC1 ? I wouldn'y mind paying a couple extra bucks for a better bearing...

-Warren.

[recumpence]

There is a place in Wauconda, just a few minutes from my house called Mechanical Power. They are my bearing supplier. I can call them tomorrow (if they are open) and see what high quality bearings they have in stock.

Matt

[Thud]

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/3-8inch/KIt7665

hehe, if you want to go krazy...try these. VXB ships from california & usps is cheap if you can wait for 4 days.

[www.recumbents.com]

Those ceramic bearings look nice Thud, but I'm concerned that the plastic seals may melt down. Hey you are right there are bearing suppliers everywhere. One by me is BBC Berry Bearing Co.

Matt: I'll try BBC Berry and if that does not work out I'll let you know and you can source them.

I'm still amazed that the motor was working as well as it was with the bearings in that condition and with that much chaff in the motor. It suppose it was running a couple MPH slower than usual on the way home. Looking at that tiny rotor I am also amazed that that little thing cranks out so much power.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

Any idea how to get the old bearing race off the rotor drive-shaft? It is being obstinate.

[Thud]

The deremel is your friend here.
you can cut nearly through in 2 spots & then break the race with a light rap with a chisle or punch.
good luck.
T

[Kurt]

Would be interesting to know why the bearing failed after only 250 miles. Lets say at a average speed of 25 MPH that's only 10hrs use, even at a avarage speed of 12.5MPH its only 20hrs use.

I think you are on the right track regarding not over tensioning the belt.Combine that with high RPM and heat most likely not the best combination. The drive side bearing failing would soon cause the rear bearing to fail.

You would think the Quality of bearing would be fairly good to begin with being a Astro motor.

That clutch unit that Matt sold me with my reduction drive is great. I don't run a lot of power but running the motor with hall sensors.Its gives you the ability to create a lot of torque through the drive with dead stop take off no peddling. I have the primary belt not loose but defiantly that tight and I have had no belt slip at all.

Kurt

[recumpence]

Warren,

You should see how much power a 6 turn 3210 will make. These things are awesome!

I agree that the bearings should not have failed so soon. I have only seen two other people wear out bearings and both of them had far more miles on higher RPM motors.

Is your motor face plate bearing fine (the one in the drive unit)? That bearing was put there to reduce the load on the front motor bearing due to the cantelever load on that front bearing.

Matt

[SoSauty]

The 8510 is listed as an RC motor, yet the 3210 as an industrial motor, on the Astro site. Could the difference be industrial strength bearings?

[recumpence]

Nope, the difference is the part number only.

Matt

[www.recumbents.com]

I used the dremel as suggested to cut a slot in the stuck bearing race and remove it. The rotor and inside of the stator have been cleaned out. I should be able to get the new bearings tomorrow at the local purveyor of bearings, and then put it all back together.

Matt, I see that the 6T 3210 is the same motor as my 10T 8510, with fewer turns to the windings. Lower turns means higher RPM. I think my bike now goes fast enough (30 MPH) but I'd like a little more grunt at the bottom end, which is why I was thinking about the 8520, which has the same diameter, but a longer can. That should mean more torque. Unless I'm light on the throttle I have to charge my 10Ah pack at work anyway (and I don't ride it that way!), so I can deal with the slightly less efficient 8520.

-Warren.

[recumpence]

The best bet would be the 8150 (or 3215, they are the same motor). It is 50% more powerful (torquey) than your 3210 and only 1/2 inch longer.

Matt

[www.recumbents.com]

Matt: Yes, the 3215 motors look very nice, and would be good for my application.
http://www.astroflight.com/pdfs/3215.pdf

I tried the local bearing place and they said they did not have the R6ZZ ABEC1 bearings in stock but could get them from Chicago in a couple days. $16 each. Um... No thanks.

I ordered a couple of these ABEC3 bearings from Grainger and will pick them up from Grainger "will call" tomorrow. Six bucks each...
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON ... Pid=search

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

I made a trip to Matt's sweat shop (no AC!) on Tuesday. He modded my drive unit to add a friction clutch and we replaced the defective freewheel as well. Yesterday I picked up the new bearings for the motor. Today I hope to have time to reassemble the motor and drive unit and test it out. I'm hoping this will fix the issues I have had at low speeds. Pictures/testing results soon.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

I installed the bearings and now the motor and drivetrain are back together. Motor seems maybe a bit quieter now but I still get the same sync issue at low RPM. I just have to remember to get the bike up to 8 or 10 MPH before I throttle up. The slipper clutch is...interesting. I tightened it a couple times. I think I am going to tighten it again.

-Warren.

[Kurt]

Good to see it all running again. Im not sure how Matt sets up the slipper clutch for the Astro motors. I haven't touched mine from how it was sent to me . At first I thought it wasn't moving/slipping at all . So I marked it with a pen marker and went for a ride. It had moved but perhaps 1/8th of a rotation . So I really just treat it as a dynamic shear pin that resets its self each time .Just to make the components last a little longer.

I guess with the sensorless controllers you are using more to limit torque load at take off to stop shuddering. I would love to see a Astro motor running from a powerful sensored controller were you can smash the throttle how you like.

Kurt

[SoSauty]

Yep, to set the slipper clutch watch your amps on the CA and check temp. If it slips too much the amps will fall off from not having much load, plus the clutch will run 150f or hotter. A little slipping and 100f is close. Once you're there the adjustments need to be pretty miniscule.

[www.recumbents.com]

I think I have the clutch adjusted right now. When I was testing it with around the block runs a couple days ago the clutch was as hot as the motor. Today's commute was uneventful but I took it easy on the motor. I had been having issues for the past month or so where at low throttle the motor speed would jump around a little. The new bearings seem to have cured that. I guess that's my early warning system for fairing bearings. The ride home will be a little more brisk and will give the clutch more of a workout.

I'm thinking that I will install the Astroflight 3215 to replace the 3210 when Matt gets them in, if I can sell my 3210. Matt says $300 is a good price, so if you need a 3210 and can wait until I get the 3215 installed, this one has new bearings and looks quite good internally.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

I upgraded the motor to a AstroFlight 3215. It's just a bit higher power and faster. I also changed from using the BEC & Servo tester to the new beta version ebikes.ca RC Cycle Analyst, which has the BEC and servo controller built in. Pictured here is my entire new RC e-bike system.
It took a little while and I thought it broke my ESC, but eventually I figured out how to make the beta version of the ebikes RC CA work with my Castle Creations Phoenix HV ESC. It didn't break it but apparently the RC CA sent signals to the ESC that caused it to flash error codes, so I had to do a full reset of the ESC using the CC management software to clear the errors.



Here are the RC CA settings that worked for me: http://recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/rc_d ... nalyst.htm
Here are the CC HV160 ESC settings that worked for me: http://recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/rc_d ... ttings.htm

Here's the new motor mounted, I had to cut a notch in the frame to make it fit.



I sent the ESC (controller) back to Castle Creations to be upgraded to a Phoenix ICE2 as part of a service advisory. It took a long time for them to upgrade it.

The real world is finally getting warmer and I was able to take it for a ride around the block (actually several laps around the block). The controller works well, though it seems like minimum throttle cuts in a little harder than with the old servo tester / BEC system. Performance at very low speeds seems to be comparable to the old servo tester / BEC system, so I still have to pedal up to 5 MPH or so before throttling up. The new motor has a bit more grunt and longer legs. I had the CA set to cut off at 99A and 35 MPH, and the power definitely shut off at 35MPH and did not all more throttle until I got below 35. With the 3210 it maxed out at 30 MPH. When I looked a the IMax (amps) later it showed a max of 99 amps. 80 amps was max with the old motor..

Next I need to remove the speed limitation to see how fast it goes, and see if the watts / mile is significantly worse than the 26 wh/mi average with 30 MPH cruising that I was seeing last year. I really don't need to go faster than 30 MPH on a bicycle so I will probably be changing the final gear to a bigger chainring to reduce the max speed.

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

Wonderful weather happened today, and I had a bit of time for a test ride. I removed the speed limitations this time, and the bike topped out at 47.5 MPH. Yikes. It got there in about a block at WOT. I found that when cranking the throttle open from about 10 MPH it jerks a couple times before taking off. I have the CA set to 99A max, and the max recorded amps said 97 amps so it may be hitting that and shutting down the throttle. I'll have to try it again with the CA set to 0 A max (which I'm pretty sure disables that max amps feature). The motor was pretty hot when I got done buzzing around too.

47 is way too fast, so this means I need to change the gearing to bring it down to at least 35MPH.

-Warren.

[recumpence]

Yup, a 3215 is good for about 40mph max gearing before heat becomes an issue.

I look forward to doing some riding with you this summer!

Matt

[www.recumbents.com]

I did my first commute to work of 2012 today. The bike performed well. The throttle is very touchy with the new RC Cycle Analyst. Cruising at 30 requires very little throttle. The new 3215 motor does seem to use about the same power as the 3210 (600 - 700 watts at 30 MPH). Also tonight I found that it uses about 1600 watts at 40 MPH. I think I will keep the high speed ability. Like my car, I will just resist driving it at WOT, except when I need to go fast...

Hey Matt, I kept the speed down around 30 and the motor was a little warm when I got to work today but not hot. We do need to get together for a ride!

-Warren.

[www.recumbents.com]

Did another commute yesterday, then went to a friends house and did a 35 mile ride, using the e-power to drag the 60 lb bike up the hills right up until the 40V LVC cut me off toward the end of the ride. Fun! After the ride, the bike recharged while we ate. The ride home in the dark with the magicshine head and tail light was a blast. It's officially an e-motorcycle.

-Warren.

[Wheazel]

That sounds totally awesome. 600-700W at 30mph and 40mph capability, fantastic. Good efficiency! How is the noiselevel?
My bike wants roughly 1kw at 30mph. Not a recumbent tho.

I have a Challange Jester that could become an efficient deathtrap. Noone ever sees you coming.
If its not too much trouble, make a new 2012 video with the new motor.